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Thread: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

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    Post Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    I'm not sure how reliable the Mirror, if its a rag please let me know.

    SHAME OF ABUSE BY BRIT TROOPS

    May 1 2004

    Rogue British troops batter Iraqis in mockery of bid to win over people

    By Paul Byrne

    A HOODED Iraqi captive is beaten by British soldiers before being thrown from a moving truck and left to die.

    The prisoner, aged 18-20, begged for mercy as he was battered with rifle butts and batons in the head and groin, was kicked, stamped and urinated on, and had a gun barrel forced into his mouth.

    After an EIGHT-HOUR ordeal, he was left barely conscious and close to death. Bleeding and vomiting and with a broken jaw and missing teeth, he was driven from a Basra camp and hurled off the truck. No one knows if he lived or died.

    The shocking pictures on this page were handed to us by one of the attackers and a colleague. We have agreed to protect their identities as they fear reprisals.

    Last night, their damning testimony was in the hands of appalled ministers and Army chiefs who pledged an urgent investigation.

    Chief of the General Staff General Sir Michael Jackson said: "If this is proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform. They have besmirched the good name of the Army and its honour."

    No 10 said: "The Prime Minister fully endorses the general's statement."

    The outrage, which emerged the day after US troops were pictured torturing Iraqi prisoners of war, makes a mockery of the Army's attempts to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.

    Army chiefs believe it was an isolated incident involving a few rogue troops. But, it is claimed, officers turned a blind eye. One of the soldiers said: "Basically this guy was dying as he couldn't take any more. An officer came down. It was 'Get rid of him - I haven't seen him'. The paperwork gets ripped. So they threw him out, still with a bag on his head."

    Weeks after the pictures were taken, a captive was allegedly beaten to death in custody by men from the same Queen's Lancashire Regiment. It is also alleged a video was found of prisoners being thrown off a bridge.

    He said: "You pick on a man and go for him. Straightaway he gets a beating, a couple of punches and kicks to put him down. Then he was dragged to the back of the vehicle."

    Immediately a sandbag was placed over the man's head and his hands tied behind his back.

    As we took him back he was getting a beating. He was hit with batons on the knees, fingers, toes, elbows, and head.

    You normally try to leave off the face until you're in camp. If you pull up with black eyes and bleeding faces you could be in s**t.

    "So it's body shots - scaring him, saying 'We're going to kill you'. A lot of them cry and p*** themselves.

    Because it was so hot we put him in the back of a four- tonner truck which has a canopy over it. That's where the photos were taken. Lads were taking turns giving him a right going over, smashing him in the face with weapons and stamping on him. We had him for about eight hours.

    You could see blood coming out early from the first 'digs'. He was p****d on and there was spew.

    "We took his mask off to give him some water and let him have a rest for 10 minutes. He could only speak a few words, pleading 'No, mister' . No, mister'.

    I did less than the others. But I joined in. Me and my mate calmed down. Then two lads come on and it starts again.

    "He was missing teeth. All his mouth was bleeding and his nose was all over the place. He couldn't talk, his jaw was out. He's had a good few hours of a kicking. He was on his way to being killed. There's only so much you can take.

    After the officer allegedly told the attackers to get rid of the suspect he was driven off.

    Soldier A said: "The lads said they took him back to the dock and threw him off the back of a moving vehicle. They'd have freed his hands, but he'd still be hooded. He'd done nothing, really. I felt sorry for him. I'm not emotional about it, but I knew it was wrong."

    Referring to the second alleged beating in custody - said to have taken place in September - Soldier B said: "It was only a matter of time.




    BUTT IN GROIN: A rifle is cruelly jabbed in the young man's groin as his eight-hour nightmare goes on

    "We had one who fought back. I thought 'Don't do that', it's the worst thing you can do. He got such a kicking. You could hear your mate's boots hitting this lad's spine.

    "One of the lads broke his wrist on a prisoner's head. Another nearly broke his foot, kicking him. We're not helping ourselves out here. We're never going to get the Iraqis on our side. We're fighting a losing war."

    Soldier B claimed after the alleged September beating troops were told to destroy incriminating evidence.

    He said: "We got a warning, saying the Military Police had found a video of people throwing prisoners off a bridge. It wasn't 'Don't do it' or 'Stop it'. It was 'Get rid of it.' "

    The death is being probed. At least one soldier is expected to be charged with manslaughter.

    The two infantrymen claim abuse has started because Iraqi police are powerless to process suspects.

    Soldier B said: "There's no point taking them to the police station because they're released within 20 minutes. The coppers don't want any comeback and let them go. All we do is teach them a lesson our way.

    "You're knackered and you don't want to be going to a police station and doing statements, just for them to be released. Give them a kicking, then it's done and dusted.

    "A lot of the younger ones are worse. It's as though they've something to prove. You've got a gun and you're the law. You can make people do whatever you want."

    Both men fear the situation is worsening , with UK troops now seen as the enemy, rather than liberators.

    One said: "I can't believe it has taken the Iraqis so long to fight back. If it had been me or my family, I'd have retaliated straightaway.

    "They've just got f****d around so much. You can't go in now, and say 'Right, let's forget about what has happened and start again'.

    "We're struggling now. There are too many people against us."

    The MoD confirmed eight cases of alleged mistreatment of Iraqis by British personnel are being investigated by the army's Special Investigations Branch. A spokesman said: "All allegations will be investigated - and every soldier knows it."

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html

  2. #2
    Member Strengthandhonour's Avatar
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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    I was discussing this topic with my father this morning. I really don't think there is any "Rules" in war. Prisoners of war are prisoners of war. Maybe it's a hypocrisy for the US and the UK to do this to the prisoners, But I don't think they are terrible people for doing it, I am sure that the damn people from Iraq would do the same thing..
    Just close your eyes...can you remember
    The generations not so long ago
    I feel the shameless urge that we must restore
    Our former king to his rightful throne
    And with me lords and maidens
    We wait for the chosen son's return

    I come alive
    It's a time for celebration
    Our will to restore
    Make our past become the futre once more

    Still he lives! 2000 years have passed
    And still we're yearning for his return
    We fulfill a wishful prohecy
    And so the chanting begins
    Hail Caesar...Hail Caesar...we render unto you
    What is still yours

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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    There were articles before the fall where the military was investigating the possible sexual abuse of prisoners. I don't remember if the Brits or the Yanks were doing it, but the soldiers were forcing the POWs to have sex with each other(male/male). Things like that piss me off because the soldiers are doing it for some type of sadist enjoyment. We will see a lot more cases like this as the coalition stays longer in sand bowl and the soldiers get longer tours over there. A man(and in some cases woman) needs to be able to take out his frustrations in some way. I don't look forward to the VA costs in 20 years when these guys are back home and beating their wives and hanging themselves from trees because they can't cope with the past.

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    Member Strengthandhonour's Avatar
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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    That I do agree with. I think violating someones sexuality is wrong no matter what the situation is.
    Just close your eyes...can you remember
    The generations not so long ago
    I feel the shameless urge that we must restore
    Our former king to his rightful throne
    And with me lords and maidens
    We wait for the chosen son's return

    I come alive
    It's a time for celebration
    Our will to restore
    Make our past become the futre once more

    Still he lives! 2000 years have passed
    And still we're yearning for his return
    We fulfill a wishful prohecy
    And so the chanting begins
    Hail Caesar...Hail Caesar...we render unto you
    What is still yours

  5. #5
    Member Razmig's Avatar
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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour
    I was discussing this topic with my father this morning. I really don't think there is any "Rules" in war. Prisoners of war are prisoners of war. Maybe it's a hypocrisy for the US and the UK to do this to the prisoners, But I don't think they are terrible people for doing it, I am sure that the damn people from Iraq would do the same thing..
    You're wrong, there are rules to be followed for a war and prisoners of those wars. US is there for a reason: to set an example. IMO they have no damn business in Iraq or any other country than their own. Behaviour like this only makes nations hate the "big guys" even more. It's enough that the American government has gone down the crapper, now their morals are following right behind it (and such actions very much reflect the American people and their behaviors, their morals and etc).

    Anyways, Britts are some foul mouthed perverted people. =)

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    Member Strengthandhonour's Avatar
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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    War is war. In war everything counts. This has been showed in the past numerous times. War will never be civilized.
    Just close your eyes...can you remember
    The generations not so long ago
    I feel the shameless urge that we must restore
    Our former king to his rightful throne
    And with me lords and maidens
    We wait for the chosen son's return

    I come alive
    It's a time for celebration
    Our will to restore
    Make our past become the futre once more

    Still he lives! 2000 years have passed
    And still we're yearning for his return
    We fulfill a wishful prohecy
    And so the chanting begins
    Hail Caesar...Hail Caesar...we render unto you
    What is still yours

  7. #7
    Member Razmig's Avatar
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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    Such talk is what seperates the "bad guys" and the "good guys" in war. Those who would follow through with such immoral actions that are looked down in the eyes of respectful combattant in war are usually the ones who end up losing in the long run.

    I don't beleive in that "alls fair in love and war" crap. Moral and respectful Europeans dont give in to that, it's not what the culture is about. If you look into history books, all great leaders respected and understoof their enemies as much as they did their fellow countrymen. Some can say that letting such actions slip by in the hands of Europeans is why Europe is in such a mess, and it explains why they would place the blame on others. Europe has a duty, and thats to uphold their honourable place in the world.
    Last edited by Razmig; Sunday, May 2nd, 2004 at 04:02 AM.

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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    Think about it this way. Was it right for Christian Lebanese to slaughter illegal Palestinians? It resulted with the desctruction of their nation. Did Milosevic help the Serbs prosper? He only got them in deeper ****. Armenia on the other hand, with its attempt to purify Armenia of Azeris has only been blokaded by all of its nations besides Georgia...what good does such hostility do? There is a right way to war, and a right way to politics. We are not living in the past any longer.

    Sure, muslims have no business in Europe, or Lebanon for that matter. But in this day and age, you have to earn the respect of others for the well being of your countrymen. People before power and loyalty before succession.

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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    Personally, I do not care how the Iraqi soldiers were treated by Americans or even the British in mind that this is the topic. The reason is I dislike the Middle East, but in my moral(morality in this matter) speakings they have multilated some of our troops. Hmm, cruelty or brutal murder. That is the question.

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    Post Re: Shame Of Abuse By Brit Troops

    Eh, I'm inclined to agree with MVSSOLINI. I'll admit I'm apathetic to the plight of Iraqi's I just don't care one way or the other what happens to them. I looked at the previous pictures, which could of been taken anywhere by anyone. I wasn't sure what the big deal was they didn't appear to be experiencing any kind of intense torture. Looked more comical or just plain weird than anything else. I also saw the pictures posted of the British solder urinating on a prisoner of war? or criminal? It didn't tug on my heart strings any. I'd question why anyone would allow themselves to be photographed engaged in such actions. I guess that's why I'm a bit suspicious. I don't see the point in troops engaging in such behavior unless it's out of pure boredom nor would I understand why they would photograph themselves in a compromising situation. Real torture would have a purpose in mind to get information out of the individual. Much worse has happened over there which we will never seen in photo or film.

    What's interesting is that the government which will be installed in Iraq is going to be a fascist puppet state of the USA, it will have to be for order to be maintained. The ironic part will be how closely this new leader will resemble and run things similar to Saddam Hussein. The Shiites again will be oppressed by a ruling class minority. I wonder who will be the first to shake the new despot leader's hand? Will it be Rumsfeld again? Like he did in this link in the early 80's? This whole thing sounds very similar to the former USSR's actions in Afghanistan, except I think they were a bit more successful in gaining local support.
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

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