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Thread: Ogham or Irish Runes?

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    Ogham or Irish Runes?

    From "Secrets of the Runes" by Nigel Pennick:

    Although the Irish Druids had their own alphabet, Ogham, they also used several runic systems. At one time, it seems that runic was the main form of writing in Ireland. This is apparent because all words related to writing in modern Irish have the element rún. Excavations in Dublin have revealed objects with Danish and Swedish-Norse runes, and in later times, local versions were used there. These are known from medieval manuscripts, where they are called Gall Ogham and Lockland Ogham. The name 'Ogham' identifies these alphabets as magical. They are scribes' version of the mixed and dotted runes, with some extra characters necessary for writing in Irish.
    Has anyone else heard anything about an Irish ogham futhark adopted from the Norse runes? I did a search but found nothing on the internet.

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    There's a chart in the book (I'll scan and post it later) where he shows what the staves look like. The Lockland and Gall "oghams" are actually based on the younger futhark but have a more cursive/calligraphy look to them.

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    On top is the "Gall Ogham" on the bottom is the "Lockland Ogham". I think whoever drew this may have mismatched the L and M staves on the Lockland chart.


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    I'm pretty skeptical. I also can not find anything about ogham futharks. I've never heard of Nigel Pennick so I don't know how reputable he is. Does he reference any places where these oghams were found?

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    He didn't say much aside from them coming from "excavations near Dublin". Not being able to find anything else about them on the internet leads me to be kind of skeptical too. If they're real there are probably just one or two instances of them being used in writing. Probably in some manuscript written by monks. I have several of his books and like most authors on esoteric runology he uses his own UPGs, but I don't think he just makes stuff up for the hel of it. Who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquil
    On top is the "Gall Ogham" on the bottom is the "Lockland Ogham". I think whoever drew this may have mismatched the L and M staves on the Lockland chart.

    Looks like a cross between Ogham and Eldar Futhark..... wacky!

    I have never seen these before!

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    Quote Originally Posted by enslaved1896
    Looks like a cross between Ogham and Eldar Futhark..... wacky!
    It kind of reminds me of the Cherokee alphabet, just the way the characters are shaped.

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    Ogham is different. I think it was used by the Druids mostly. It is definately an alphabet that coincides with Gaelic and Gaulish. I think it began in Celt Iberia.

    There are places where Norse Runes and Ogham are used in conjunction.

    I think I have seen places where Anglo-Saxon Futhorc and Ogham are used in conjunction too.
    I will find photos tomorow and post them.

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    Ogham and the Druids

    I dont have a high opinion of Nigel Pennick, he is abit newagey and prone to coming to odd conclusions based on scanty evidence at best.
    When Pennick claims the Druids of Ireland used ogham or runes, i can see how bad things have got, the point being that ogham was invented by Irish monks and dates to the 5th century c.e. so nothing to do with the Druids, and there are no celtic runes, they are of course germanic in origin, thats not to say that runes wernt used in Ireland or Shetland where Norse settlers went, but they have nothing to do with Druids.

    It is true that Run, and similar compounds do occur all over europe ,the general meaning being something secret, something whispered about, this word appears in early Germanic speech prior to the develpment of the rune staves, and meant something whispered, a secret, infact modern German Raunen =to whisper or OLD English Run wita,= a wise person who has knowledge of esoteric things, shows this.

    It is interesting that many scholars think the Run, complex of words used all over Europe is not of indo-european origin, i do not know if that is so.

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    I picked up one of his books a few weeks ago (the title escapes me) and I'm inclined to agree with Barry. He's very "New Age" and seems to make assertions based on little or no evidence.

    The book had a large bibliography but next to no references to anything in the text itself which tends to set my alarm bells ringing.

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