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Thread: European Islam: the Answer?

  1. #41
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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by OdinThor
    He hated Christianity, the destroyer of European strength and will.
    How on earth can you call Christianity the destroyer of Europe's strength and will? Christianity was the major force behind Europe's great strength and vitaliy!

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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    This is utterly ridiculous. Yes, Christianity sucks (How I wish the Mithraists had won instead.) but Islam is no more noble, and is also an enemy of the ancient ideals. Semitic, intolerant, dusty, absolutist, desert trash. The only things which Christianity has to its credit are all the elements that they so blatantly stole from Mediterranean paganism (reverence for the feminine, solar iconography, art etc.) Islam has even less of this.

    I think Nietzsche has made a common mistake, everything which makes Islam look so appealing was hijacked from other peoples. Islam didn't "boom" until some of the Central Asians were converted i.e. the Mongols, called after they converted "the Golden Horde", which allowed them to establish trade routes with superior civilizations particularly the Persians and Hindus. Evidence of this confusion can be seen in calling our numbers "Arabic" <barf> numerals. These numerals do not come from the Arabs, they merely were introduced by them to the West through trade routes via Hindu India (note Indian numerals and note their similarity to our commonly accepted numerals). The Arabs also became familiar with Vedic (classical Hindu) mathematics, and they are attributed great mathematic skills?! Also, note the Arabs, after they conquered Egypt, became familiar with the mathematics of the Greeks, whom got their ideas from Pythagoreas (whom some think may have been influenced by Indian civilization, note he founded his own mystery school.)

    Burning down the library of Alexandria (which people either attribute to the Christians or Muslims)... Yeah, a real respect for civilization. <rolls eyes>

    * all bold in the following quotations, my commentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blutwölfin
    "Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Islamic civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (--I do not say by what sort of feet--) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin--because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! . . . The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust--a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile."--What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. . . . Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won . . . The German noble, always the "Swiss guard" of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church--but well paid. . . Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious. . . Christianity, alcohol--the two great means of corruption. . . . Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Hebrew. ( read either one sucks almost equally) The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala (gee, I wonder where this term comes from) or he is not. . . . "War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!": this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can't make out how a German could ever feel Christian...."

    Antichrist 60.
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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Taras Bulba
    How on earth can you call Christianity the destroyer of Europe's strength and will? Christianity was the major force behind Europe's great strength and vitaliy!
    Christianity is a never ending guilt trip. It knows no races and favours the weak. In fact it is the direct predecessor of decadence and multi-racialism!

    Christianity tells the weak that they are better than the strong.
    Democracy tells the dumb that they are as able as the intelligent.
    Feminism tells the woman they are like men.
    Anti-racism tells the black they are better than whites.

    See the pattern? Christianity has been the soil where the evil seed is growing.
    Last edited by OdinThor; Wednesday, April 19th, 2006 at 11:40 PM.

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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by OdinThor
    He hated Christianity, the destroyer of European strength and will. Islam as an enemy of Christianity was therefore seen in a favourable light. But he would have never welcomed Islam or any religion as positive to Europe.
    Garbage. Christianity united, nay, created Europe. It turned Europe from a continent of barbarian tribes into confederation of Kingdoms under a single religion and a single leader - the Pope - and brought Eastern Europe into the fold, produced such powerful fighting units as the Knights Templar and St. John's Hospitallers and delayed the destruction of the East Roman Empire for hundreds of years.

    Christianity is a never ending guilt trip. It knows no races and favours the weak. In fact it is the direct predecessor of decadence and multi-racialism!
    You're a fool. Christianity is not a never ending guilt trip. It is a demand for inner purification. Roman Catholicism acknowledges ethnocultures and supports the rights of national self-determination.

    Christianity tells the weak that they are better than the strong.
    ROFLMAO. 'The meek shall inherit the earth' is a statement supporting the strength of those who hold to God's order within themselves. 'Turn the other cheek' is a statement preferring tolerance of personal insults instead of eviscerating someone because they've called you an arsehole.

    Democracy tells the dumb that they are as able as the intelligent.
    Democracy is vox populi vox dei. Our current mess can be attributed to three things: the effect the holocaust and Nazi Germany in general (whether manufactured or not) has had on the prospects of racialism, nationalism and eugenics in the West, the concept of the seperation of powers, which leaves government open to be siezed by special interest groups and ultimately leaves the voice of the people shattered and ineffective before the power of corporations and other pressure groups, and the perversion of freedom and the destruction of traditional morality combined with the rise of expressive individualism, the tolerance morality and the 'freedom' cult.

    Feminism tells the woman they are like men.
    First wave feminism sought to expand the one-man-one-vote to include women as well. It's entirely debatable whether or not this is a cause of the dissolution of the west. Second generation feminism - equal pay for equal work - certainly crushed the idea of a man being given a wage enough for him to live in his own home and support his two kids and wife, but opportunity does not equal necessity. On the other hand, the elevation of the expressivist ethic - do what you want - helped dissolve the primacy of gender roles such as stay at home mothers, etc. Capitalism has also played a rather important role in encouraging this change of ideals.

    Anti-racism tells the black they are better than whites.
    Never mind that the Puritans were the ones that began the greatest genocide in human history, Manifest Destiny.

    See the pattern? Christianity has been the soil where the evil seed is growing.
    LOL. Your case is laughable. Sorry.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer
    Garbage. Christianity united, nay, created Europe. It turned Europe from a continent of barbarian tribes into confederation of Kingdoms under a single religion and a single leader - the Pope - and brought Eastern Europe into the fold, produced such powerful fighting units as the Knights Templar and St. John's Hospitallers and delayed the destruction of the East Roman Empire for hundreds of years.
    Christianity is in no way an improvement, or more civilized then the pre-Christian religion of the Greeks and Romans. Kingdoms, unified? This can be attributed to the recovery of Greek and Roman sciences and cultural acheivements, facilitated by the Catholic Charlemerde, yes, but Europe's greatness owes more to the Greco-Roman tradition than it does to Christianity. As I said before, the only thing the least bit palatable about Christianity is what it stole from Mediterranean paganism.

    Note, towards the proclamation of Christianity as the official religion of the empire in the time of Constantine, paganism was beginning to develop a monism not unlike Hindu Vedanta which proclaimed the doctrine of a supreme God which incorporated the other deities. The one thing which owed to the survival of Hinduism, and not European paganism as well was that this philosophy/doctrine was developed in the 5th century BCE with the writing of the Upanishads in India, but did not develop until much later on in Europe. The supreme cult would have been Mithraism, and how much better our world would be if only, that had survived instead. If only Constantine had declared that he saw Mithras in the sky on that fateful day instead of the King of the Jews.

    For example, in the 3rd century CE Isis was declared as being in control of all offices and possessing the attributes of all the gods, as evidenced by papyri proclaiming Her many names. This unifying monism also existed in the figure of Mithras, had it survived perhaps we would still be able to enjoy the worship of all the many deities of all of Europe's peoples in the present day. The native religion(s) of Europe and the World, all destroyed owing to the whim of one man.

    If there is a Hell, surely he should be damned to the lowest rung of it for destroying beauty. Nietzsche doesn't call it the Birth of Tragedy for nothing.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer
    Christianity united, nay, created Europe.
    And surpressed sience and people wherever it could.
    Galileo anyone? The church was one of the most destructive forces in european history. The church was the reson we had the dark ages, the crusades, the buyable absolutions, all that crap.
    The burnings of all non-christian knowladge under Karl the Great, I could go on and on.
    The christian leaders didn't care about their people, as long as the others are christian and thus take the legitimation of a King serious they were welcome.

    No one can ever say for sure, if we would be worse or better off with/without christianity, but I prefer not to believ ein jewish teachings.
    Why are they so right, and our ancestors were so wrong?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Re: Sv: Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    I doubt Nietzsche knew very much about Islam, except for his own romantic phantasies on the subject.
    I come from another famous american WN forum, a see that even here somebody tries to see islam in a positive light, as it was a religion that could do something for Europe.

    On the contrary it is poised to destroy our superior civilization.

    this 19th century romanticized views of islam were born out of the sheer ignorance of its nature.

    Islam is a semitic religion founded by a clever but half mad narcisistic paedophile and street robber, who created a cult that destroyed what good the roman empire and the greek civilization had planted among the southern mediterranean peoples.

    Islamism bigotry coupled with the miscgeneation with black slaves destroyed that civilization, and the same pattern seems to be establishing here in Europe, thanks to open immigration of islamic hordes.

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    I don't see kingdoms unified at the middle ages...is more likely to see divided nations and peoples than in the ancient roman world, when the government was centralized in Rome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    the Catholic Charlemerde
    laughs

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator X
    Note, towards the proclamation of Christianity as the official religion of the empire in the time of Constantine, paganism was beginning to develop a monism not unlike Hindu Vedanta which proclaimed the doctrine of a supreme God which incorporated the other deities. The one thing which owed to the survival of Hinduism, and not European paganism as well was that this philosophy/doctrine was developed in the 5th century BCE with the writing of the Upanishads in India, but did not develop until much later on in Europe. The supreme cult would have been Mithraism, and how much better our world would be if only, that had survived instead. If only Constantine had declared that he saw Mithras in the sky on that fateful day instead of the King of the Jews.
    The supreme cult already was Mithraism. I'm actually reading that book about the cult of Mithras by Franz Cumont. The cult was spreading through recrutation in the east of persian soldiers to the roman legions. These soldiers were then send to the west, to the roman-german frontier. There they spread the cult to locals and other legionaries from other etnies. Result is that there is much archeological evidence in the area where is today Austria and Hungary.
    Mithraism was adoted by Commodus and other emperor as well, that was already being developed, but Constatine was thinking in more control to the emperor, that is, to himself, and, as I say in other post, the idea of guilty was good for tame the masses and the barbarians, conditioning the mind and the body to this disposition. Nietzsche develops how the idea of guilty played in the minds of the german tribes in his Genealogy of Morals.

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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger
    And surpressed sience and people wherever it could.
    No....in fact Catholicism was the greatest patron of scientific developments well into the modern era. Most historians now actually admit this.

    Galileo anyone?
    Lets just assume for a moment that what's commonly said about that incident is indeed correct. Galileo was brought before the Inquisition for his scientific theories(actually that wasnt the case, but rather for his dealings in a topic he knew little about, theology). What effect did it have in the long term? None. Even within Catholic circles, the Galileo affair did not stop anykind of further scientific research, in fact it actually expanded. The Galileo affair also had no theological significance either.


    The church was one of the most destructive forces in european history. The church was the reson we had the dark ages
    That was caused by the collaspe of the Roman Empire. Although many historians also now admit that the "Dark Ages" were much more richer culturally and even intellectual speaking than previously thought.

    Just one example, what we now know as the book today actually saw its full development during the "Dark Ages". This fully allowed monks and scribes to preserve multiple documents and chronicles than was previous possible with the old scroll. The Carolingian Renaisance and further revivals of learning in the late Medieval and the Renaisance was built upon these "Dark Age" developments in scholarship.

    , the crusades,
    The Crusades were by an large an European counter-attack against the massive invasions of Islamic hordes from the previous century. Jay Williams has even written a book The Way of the Crusades which makes the argument that they actually contributed greatly to the cultural development of both the Arab and European worlds.

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