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Thread: European Islam: the Answer?

  1. #31
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    Post Re: European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by agnar
    Although the roots came from the middle east, I have great respect for christianity, but not for the church of today.
    Christianity became native as it took the form of the native society, and so would any imported religion. Northern European Folk Christianity was a continuation of pre-Christian beliefs, and in the same way folkish Moslems continue indigenous beliefs.

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    Post Re: European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by ogenoct
    The Aryan King Frederick II. made the mistake of not converting to Islam (and thereby making faithful Muslims out of his subjects). Since Frederick II. was excommunicated anyway, he should have broken with the Vatican, the Roman Church, the Pope and the whole of Christianity. Under the banner of the prophet Muhammed, he could have reconquered his realm for the glory of almighty Allah. The Islamic Rennaissance has the possibility of becoming a cultural revolution in the heart of Europe. Islam reborn with a distinct European mark - a new chance for a people satiated with "bread and games"?-- Constantin von Hoffmeister
    King Frederick was Atheist and pragmatic. His aim was to crash Roman Charch power over German territories.

  3. #33
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    Post Re: European Islam

    I have read the "glorious" Qu'ran three times, carefully. This is, of course, in English translation inasmuch as I cannot read Arabic. How "authentic" these 3 translations are I cannot say, though the last is attributed to a noted Islamic scholar. (I do not have the book at hand tonight, having lent it to a friend.) Considering that it is regarded as a major sin to translate the Qu'ran into another language than Arabic, Moslems may well dispute the authenticity of the translation on this basis. Every sura of the Qu'ran begins with the words "In the name of Allah [or ar-Rahman] the merciful, the compassionate" In vain have I searched this book for any manifestation of mercy or compassion. All I find is threats. Few other religions are harsher than Islam. It obligates every one of the faithful to participate, if able, in converting the rest of the world to Islam by fire and sword. Islam seems to proclaim itself the enemy of every other religion in the world. I am willing to take the Qu'ran's word for this, especially considering that most of the world's religions which are not pacifist, such as Hindus, Sikhs, and Zoroastrians, are hostile to Islam because, at one time or another, they have been harrassed or oppressed by the Moslems. It seems to me that fanaticism is part of the very fabric of Islam and has been since the days of the Prophet. The notion that , after a world-wide, or at least European, triumph, Islam could gradually become "Europeanized" is absurd. Islam CANNOT change. Every minutest item of its faith is immutable cast in bronze and chiseled in granite.

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    Post Re: European Islam

    If a "mistake" was made, it was not by Frederick II but by the Crusaders. In the Byzantine Empire, they had a potential, powerful, Christian ally. If they had joined forces in common cause with the Byzantines, they would have had a military force capable of halting the advance of Islam in its tracks. Instead, allowing some intra-faith doctrinal differences to anatagonize them, they attacked their fellow Christians in Constantinople. Not only did they alienate the Byzantines, but they weakened Byzantium's ability to stand against Islam on its own. What UTTER STUPIDITY !

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    Post Re: European Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorriSturluson
    1. I have read the "glorious" Qu'ran three times, carefully. This is, of course, in English translation inasmuch as I cannot read Arabic. How "authentic" these 3 translations are I cannot say, though the last is attributed to a noted Islamic scholar.
    2. In vain have I searched this book for any manifestation of mercy or compassion. All I find is threats.
    3. It seems to me that fanaticism is part of the very fabric of Islam and has been since the days of the Prophet.
    4. The notion that , after a world-wide, or at least European, triumph, Islam could gradually become "Europeanized" is absurd. Islam CANNOT change. Every minutest item of its faith is immutable cast in bronze and chiseled in granite.
    1. Reading Qu'ran i found out that it's cultural context is too far from me to understand it correctly, then i clear it up the question, i took another book, named "Description of Prophet Mohammad's Life" by Ibn Hisham (first part of VIII centure), in Russian. I give some advice you to read this book, many things will appear in unexpected light...
    2. Possibly so. I should read Qu'ran again and more closely. Note that threats are common business for religions and especially monotheistic.
    3. Fanatism is part of the very fabric of Pure Islam (Sufiam and Shiitism are another kind)
    4. They has more new converted Whites than any Christian Church's. ..At present moment it's too early to make conclusions.


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    Nietzsche on European Islam

    "Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Islamic civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (--I do not say by what sort of feet--) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin--because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! . . . The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust--a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile."--What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. . . . Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won . . . The German noble, always the "Swiss guard" of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church--but well paid. . . Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious. . . Christianity, alcohol--the two great means of corruption. . . . Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Hebrew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not. . . . "War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!": this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can't make out how a German could ever feel Christian...."

    Antichrist 60.
    Lík börn leika best.

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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    One more reason to despise Nietzsche.

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    Sv: Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    I doubt Nietzsche knew very much about Islam, except for his own romantic phantasies on the subject.

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    Re: Nietzsche on European Islam

    He hated Christianity, the destroyer of European strength and will. Islam as an enemy of Christianity was therefore seen in a favourable light. But he would have never welcomed Islam or any religion as positive to Europe.

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