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Thread: European Islam: the Answer?

  1. #111
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork Jul View Post
    But let aside all this, which is theoretical anyway, it is extremely unwise, imprudent, and also impractical, to say above sentence in public. Because if really, truly, deeply, the god of the Musels and the god of the Christians was one and the same, then what reason would we have, what reason would remain for us to resist islamization? There would be no reason then.

    On the contrary, in public ALL the differences between them and us, yet especially the religious ones, must be stressed to the utmost and must even be exaggerated wherever possible and timely.
    Well, Muslims, as the last of the three religions, draws as deeply from Judaism and Christianity as the latter draws from the former. All these religions are originally alien to European thought but Western forms Christianity were at least filtered through a syncretism of the original Jewish heresy with Mithraism/Sol Invictus, Greek philosophies like Neoplatonism, Stoicism etc and later European pagan beliefs.

    But it’s actually an entirely futile theological question whether they believe in the same or a similar god. Islam is not only a religious belief system anyway but a whole set of ideologies infiltrating every aspect of life. And, in our case, ideologies entirely different to our mentality and conceptual systems.
    Therefore even to any professing Christian, who has nationalist leanings in any way, similarities or differences of religious belief are irrelevant. Our most prominent Christian member, Chlodovech, could probably explain that much better and much more detailed than I, though.

    In any case, the religious differences would be the most irrelevant especially when trying to convince the ordinary westerner, since they’re largely irreligious, even if they’re Christian on paper. Not even to speak of professing Atheists/Agnostics and pagans.

    What is true, though, is that the Musels, at the moment and since quite a few decades, have the highest birthrate of the three, and it is this point that makes them look more dangerious, in comparison.

    This higher birthrate of the Musels is due to their scientific backwardness, which entails a mental backwardness. But now it turns out that mental backwardness translates directly into biological hard- and toughness. (And, as must be stated, mental progessiveness seemingly translates directly into biological weakness and a leaning toward suicide.)
    Muslims rather have much higher birth rates because our people, since at least the counterculture of the 1960s, have been led to believe and indoctrinated that it’s somehow “disgusting” to have children, that it’s low-class animalistic and that the real goal in life is pure individualism without regard for anything else.
    This pretty much breeds “adult” children without goal in life beyond consuming and no loyalty to anyone or anything.

    While at the same time it actually should be obvious, from a scientific/logical point of view, that in a social state of any form, births, at least at a replacement level, are necessary. Otherwise there will be no pension in age in the form of an intergenerational contract, with the young workers paying for those beyond working age.
    Of course one can try and import droves of foreigners but turns out that doesn’t work so well in Germany, for a whole lot of predictable reasons.
    Besides the fact, that not even enough are coming for that purpose and the foreigners attracted are much more of a burden to the social system, than what is financially gained from them, anyway.

    But that’s only the materialistic fact beyond all social conflicts, deaths of identity and anything else that doesn’t have to be specifically mentioned again because it should be obvious by now.

    Therefore scientific progressiveness and childlessness don't have to go hand in hand. Outside of the West it very often didn't in fact, even since contraception and abortion exists.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Well, Muslims, as the last of the three religions, draws as deeply from Judaism and Christianity as the latter draws from the former. All these religions are originally alien to European thought but Western forms Christianity were at least filtered through a syncretism of the original Jewish heresy with Mithraism/Sol Invictus, Greek philosophies like Neoplatonism, Stoicism etc and later European pagan beliefs.
    I think the important point is not whether something was (originally) 'alien' to somebody. Potatoes were 'alien' to German people just 250 years ago, yet today the Gemans are nicknamed 'Potatoes'. The important point is, always, whether something is applied by someone, because it looked promising and useful to that same someone. The Roman catholic christian faith was applied by Chlodowech, because it looked to him a useful tool to establish his dynasty. And it must be added: his calculation paid off, at the time.

    One must also not forget that there are several 'european' people, or populations, who, already being Christian went over to islam, as the Bosniaks in 'Bosnia', the Pomaks in Bulgaria, the Torlaks in Serbia, or most notably the Albanians, who are linguistically as 'aryan' as we are. To all these people at a certain point it seemed they would hence fare better under islam, whereas their 'tradidional' christian faith hence would hinder them and maybe even endanger their future existence.

    At one point there existed islamic populations in Poland. When the Poles fought against the Teutonic Order at Grunwald in 1410, islamic Tatars were on the side of the 'arch-catholic' Polish king. So what has been at one point really means nothing. And the longer that point lies back in time, the less it means.

    Catholic christianity was applied as a means of rule over people, and of organizing life in the widest sense, in 'Europe', over a time span of 1000 till 1700 years, depending on the area, and it worked quite well. No matter how many wars, and famines, and epidemies haunted the catholic christian european people, women did always give birth to enough children to refill even the biggest gap. Nowadays, they do no longer this, which is the ultimate source of all our other problems. So, this fact obviously can't be blamed on catholic christianity, but must have other reasons. And it is also quite understandable that people, who examine our present situation, and who compare it to what they think has been before, more or less inevitably must come to the conclusion, that 'all went well as long as we were catholic'.

    Do not get me wrong: I do NOT think this way, I am just refering to others, who are, though, a respectable minority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    But it’s actually an entirely futile theological question whether they believe in the same or a similar god. Islam is not only a religious belief system anyway but a whole set of ideologies infiltrating every aspect of life. And, in our case, ideologies entirely different to our mentality and conceptual systems.
    I since long time strongly object and refute the separation of 'culture', 'religion', and 'policy'. These three are actually the angles of a triangle. They can't be separated. 'Religion' tells the human beings where they have been before birth, and where tey will go after death. 'Culture' tells them what they should do, and how they should behave during the time in between birth and death. 'Policy' is the way of organizing, connecting and protecting, also enhancing and expanding the space ('Raum') of such a certain, specific triangle. As for 'ideology', it is just the theoretical side of a policy, 'policy' being the practical, 'hard' side of an ideology, its application.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Therefore even to any professing Christian, who has nationalist leanings in any way, similarities or differences of religious belief are irrelevant.
    I do not think so. The first and last questions: Where did I come from before birth? Where will I go to after death? Will always be relevant, to everybody, albeit unadmittedly. The strength of islam is, so to speak, that it gives, or re-gives people clear answers to these questions they are in need of and are longing for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    In any case, the religious differences would be the most irrelevant especially when trying to convince the ordinary westerner, since they’re largely irreligious, even if they’re Christian on paper.
    Here you speak as a European. I must bring to your special attention that the situation in America is entirely different. As by now, NO president dared, or even could afford to openly declare that he did not believe 'in god'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Not even to speak of professing Atheists/Agnostics and pagans.
    Atheists do not profess. I am atheist, yet I do never 'profess' it. How could I? Should I argue with others about things I just do not know? This no doubt is the shortcoming of atheism, that it makes lonely, and the weakness of atheists, that they are lonely. It may well be that atheism is something for only-childs?
    And 'pagans', to put it mildly, are a politically irrelevant minority, in Europe as well as in America, as well as anywhere else. And I am sure they will always be. This is not my wish, but my forecast.
    They suffer from the same handicap as atheists, namely that they have no answers to the first and last questions. Which was -- by the way -- the main spiritual reason why paganism was so easily and so quickly overcome by christianity.
    And a great part of the neo-pagans, may I add this, are not genuinly, honestly pagan (provided they could be), but just out of an aversion, a hatred, a disappointment. So, these 'pagans' are no positive believers, but negative objectors, negators, they are just renegades. They have a 'cause', yet it's always negative.
    True, genuine paganism comes out of oneself, it is actually no 'religion' in the sense we understand and use the term, but it is the manifestation, the utterance of a specific ghost-mind, flowing from a specific life-body.
    So, how could someone who is too spineless to speak out freely and clearly that he is German, be a 'pagan'? What would this 'confession' from such a person even mean? That he wants to be a ghost without a body, so that police can not arrest him?
    Much of that 'paganism' is actually thin-board-drilling. People hope they would be allowed to say and do things under the shield of 'religion' which they otherwise are forbidden.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Muslims rather have much higher birth rates because our people, since at least the counterculture of the 1960s, have been led to believe and indoctrinated that it’s somehow “disgusting” to have children, that it’s low-class animalistic
    That is not quite correct. 'European' peoples in a core region of Europe already began in late the middle ages to reduce the quantity of their offspring, in order to improve the quality. You can read about this phenomenon under 'Hajnal line'.
    Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ajnal_line.JPG
    So, birth control originally was a sign of higher mental development. Please note that 'birth control' is not the same as abortion, or contraception. It can be achieved by other, more intelligent, more civilized, and less unhealthy means, as raise of marriage age, for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    and that the real goal in life is pure individualism without regard for anything else. This pretty much breeds “adult” children without goal in life beyond consuming and no loyalty to anyone or anything.
    No. The emptiness and shallowness of the life of western youth has nothing to do with a low birth rate as such, these are two different problems, which must be kept and investigated, and solved, seperately.

    Also, individualism is by no means a new or recent thing. Individualism, properly understood, is a part of intrinsic Germanic nature. We would not be Germanics, if we were not individualistic. Just the extreme, negative, nihilistic, running-wild-out-of-control individualism, the atomism, is evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    While at the same time it actually should be obvious, from a scientific/logical point of view, that in a social state of any form, births, at least at a replacement level, are necessary. Otherwise there will be no pension in age in the form of an intergenerational contract, with the young workers paying for those beyond working age.
    Here you speak as a really 'godless' materialist. If people do not see a purpose and a meaning in their life, if they are given the impression that their are superfluous, that they are not needed by anybody for anything, then they first cease to care about offspring, and finally even cease to care about themselves. And when they did already arrive at that point, you can not stir them up with rational arguments anymore. Because for every 'rational' argument they have already heard an equally 'rational' counter-argument. For example, if you tell them that they should have more children, in order to have a good pension, then they will tell you that earth is already 'overpopulated'. Your materialist, 'rational' argument is countered, and in fact outdone, by an equally rationalistic, yet even more moralistic argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Of course one can try and import droves of foreigners but turns out that doesn’t work so well in Germany, for a whole lot of predictable reasons. Besides the fact, that not even enough are coming for that purpose and the foreigners attracted are much more of a burden to the social system, than what is financially gained from them, anyway.
    People must realize, or someone must it reveal to them, that it is already a value in itself, unquestionable and undisputable, that they are what they are. And that it is PRECIOUS in itself if they STAY what they are. Because they are NEEDED for the progress, nay, for the mere existence of mankind!
    That means: alien people must not come to us even if they were, every single one, precious as gold. Because we in ourselves are precious enough. And they can not give us anything that we not already have. But THEY are depending on us, now and forever, as everything depends ON US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Therefore scientific progressiveness and childlessness don't have to go hand in hand. Outside of the West it very often didn't in fact, even since contraception and abortion exists.
    Outside the West there has not been much scientific progressiveness so far. And those peoples who adopted western lifestyle, they all share the same problems.
    Last edited by Spjabork; Tuesday, February 7th, 2017 at 04:17 AM. Reason: amandments, correcting spelling

  3. #113
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    That’s one behemoth of a post. I’ll try to keep it a bit shorter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork Jul View Post
    I think the important point is not whether something was (originally) 'alien' to somebody. Potatoes were 'alien' to German people just 250 years ago, yet today the Gemans are nicknamed 'Potatoes'. The important point is, always, whether something is applied by someone, because it looked promising and useful to that same someone. The Roman catholic christian faith was applied by Chlodowech, because it looked to him a useful tool to establish his dynasty. And it must be added: his calculation paid off, at the time.
    One must also not forget that there are several 'european' people, or populations, who, already being Christian went over to islam, as the Bosniaks in 'Bosnia', the Pomaks in Bulgaria, the Torlaks in Serbia, or most notably the Albanians, who are linguistically as 'aryan' as we are. To all these people at a certain point it seemed they would hence fare better under islam, whereas their 'tradidional' christian faith hence would hinder them and maybe even endanger their future existence.
    Comparing a vegetable and ideologies is hardly a fitting comparison. One merely changes eating habits, the other tries to influence a thought system and the behavior resulting from it.

    Converting might have paid off for the Merovingian dynasty but it brought oppression and mostly alien thought to all his subjects and lots of not yet converted German tribes. But in any case, the form of Catholicism at that time, as I said before, was already majorly different from early Christianity anyway and continued to diverge through syncretism before it eventually became “stable” Catholicism. Chlodovech would’ve hardly converted to the sheepish, fatalistic version of Christianity before the various councils of the 4th century.

    The different Muslim populations of the Balkans were either converted by force or converted mostly because it spared their children from being enscripted as Janissaries(Devshirme) and they could climb the career ladder in the Ottoman Empire. Neither fate is preferable and the latter is even more dishonorable and cowardly than the first. Not everything that is individually advantageous is “good” for a people.
    One look at the Balkan should suffice to see, that Islam is never fitting for European peoples and what it does to them.

    Catholic christianity was applied as a means of rule over people, and of organizing life in the widest sense, in 'Europe', over a time span of 1000 till 1700 years, depending on the area, and it worked quite well. No matter how many wars, and famines, and epidemies haunted the catholic christian european people, women did always give birth to enough children to refill even the biggest gap. Nowadays, they do no longer this, which is the ultimate source of all our other problems. So, this fact obviously can't be blamed on catholic christianity, but must have other reasons. And it is also quite understandable that people, who examine our present situation, and who compare it to what they think has been before, more or less inevitably must come to the conclusion, that 'all went well as long as we were catholic'.
    Do not get me wrong: I do NOT think this way, I am just refering to others, who are, though, a respectable minority.
    No one did blame that on Catholicism anyway. But I would also be a logical fallacy to assume “all went well as long as we were Catholic”, therefore we have to become Catholic/Christian/religious at all again. The reasons for our decay are different and people believing religion will cure our societal disease(s) are simply wrong.
    Even if it were true, in any case you couldn’t bring back religiosity to Europe in any way. “God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him”.

    I since long time strongly object and refute the separation of 'culture', 'religion', and 'policy'. These three are actually the angles of a triangle. They can't be separated. 'Religion' tells the human beings where they have been before birth, and where tey will go after death. 'Culture' tells them what they should do, and how they should behave during the time in between birth and death. 'Policy' is the way of organizing, connecting and protecting, also enhancing and expanding the space ('Raum') of such a certain, specific triangle. As for 'ideology', it is just the theoretical side of a policy, 'policy' being the practical, 'hard' side of an ideology, its application.

    I do not think so. The first and last questions: Where did I come from before birth? Where will I go to after death? Will always be relevant, to everybody, albeit unadmittedly. The strength of islam is, so to speak, that it gives, or re-gives people clear answers to these questions they are in need of and are longing for.
    Most Europeans don’t care about these questions. That’s why we see mass church exits but no mass conversions to Islam at the same time. Most of those that remain in church also aren’t spiritiual either, it’s just laziness to go through the bureaucratic process for that.
    The only natives that convert to Islam are those who grew up with migrants in their ghettos and tried to adapt to them. Usually they’re not the sharpest tools in the shed either.

    But if you were to ask me personally: Where do I come from? I would merely answer: From my ancestors, being sprung from their genes. I am just the sum of them.
    Where do I go to? Into the abyss or perhaps into one of the various forms of heaven or hell. I do not know, I cannot know, therefore it’s irrelevant. Which of the myriad forms of religions, humans made up should I follow? Other people can try to convince me of their form of belief but they can’t know it any better than I do.
    “Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not.”
    But what I know is, that part of me lives on in my children and in my nieces and nephews, as did my ancestors in me and will in them, too. That’s real immortality, it’s a religion of the blood.

    Here you speak as a European. I must bring to your special attention that the situation in America is entirely different. As by now, NO president dared, or even could afford to openly declare that he did not believe 'in god'.
    I speak as a European by default because here I know the mentality of the people. I’ll leave judgment of America to the Americans.

    True, genuine paganism comes out of oneself, it is actually no 'religion' in the sense we understand and use the term, but it is the manifestation, the utterance of a specific ghost-mind, flowing from a specific life-body.
    So, how could someone who is too spineless to speak out freely and clearly that he is German, be a 'pagan'? What would this 'confession' from such a person even mean? That he wants to be a ghost without a body, so that police can not arrest him?
    Much of that 'paganism' is actually thin-board-drilling. People hope they would be allowed to say and do things under the shield of 'religion' which they otherwise are forbidden.
    I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here, as I never said anything in that direction. I was merely including pagans to account for all spiritualistic views in our lands.

    That is not quite correct. 'European' peoples in a core region of Europe already began in late the middle ages to reduce the quantity of their offspring, in order to improve the quality. You can read about this phenomenon under 'Hajnal line'.
    Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ajnal_line.JPG
    So, birth control originally was a sign of higher mental development. Please note that 'birth control' is not the same as abortion, or contraception. It can be achieved by other, more intelligent, more civilized, and less unhealthy means, as raise of marriage age, for example.
    I know the Hajnal line well. But it never stopped most people from getting children entirely, as raising age of marriage and excluding a small part of the population from marriage has different effects than active birth control.

    I never said that I’m against birth control in general anyway. It has it’s time and places, as for example if you have a population with a fixed amount of space/ressources. Then it’s necessary to adapt the population size to that, if you can’t expand the space/ressources to accommodate for a growing population.
    But I was actually speaking about more direct, active forms of modern birth control that, coupled with a selfish mindset, serve to restrict average European couples to none, one, or at the most, two children, while immigrants multiply rapidly.

    No. The emptiness and shallowness of the life of western youth has nothing to do with a low birth rate as such, these are two different problems, which must be kept and investigated, and solved, seperately.
    What else is the primary reason for it then? Financially and due to public child care, it has never been easier to get children in the west. If they wanted to, they could have children but they prefer to waste their time with self-indulgence.

    Also, individualism is by no means a new or recent thing. Individualism, properly understood, is a part of intrinsic Germanic nature. We would not be Germanics, if we were not individualistic. Just the extreme, negative, nihilistic, running-wild-out-of-control individualism, the atomism, is evil.
    Only the latter form is, what I meant when I used the term individualism, anyway. True Germanic nature is a belief into rights and duties of the individual and the community at the same time. It’s a third path between extreme forms of individualism and collectivism.

    Here you speak as a really 'godless' materialist. If people do not see a purpose and a meaning in their life, if they are given the impression that their are superfluous, that they are not needed by anybody for anything, then they first cease to care about offspring, and finally even cease to care about themselves. And when they did already arrive at that point, you can not stir them up with rational arguments anymore. Because for every 'rational' argument they have already heard an equally 'rational' counter-argument. For example, if you tell them that they should have more children, in order to have a good pension, then they will tell you that earth is already 'overpopulated'. Your materialist, 'rational' argument is countered, and in fact outdone, by an equally rationalistic, yet even more moralistic argument.
    People must realize, or someone must it reveal to them, that it is already a value in itself, unquestionable and undisputable, that they are what they are. And that it is PRECIOUS in itself if they STAY what they are. Because they are NEEDED for the progress, nay, for the mere existence of mankind!
    That means: alien people must not come to us even if they were, every single one, precious as gold. Because we in ourselves are precious enough. And they can not give us anything that we not already have. But THEY are depending on us, now and forever, as everything depends ON US.
    I was exaggerating on purpose because godless materialists is, what most people are. But it’s not true, that people that feel “superfluous” have the lowest birth rates. Rather, the “lowest”, “left-behind” classes regularly have the highest birth rates in any society.
    To me personally the problems of childlessness and aging, of course, aren’t primarily about pensions. I would resort to tilling a field with my hands in old age and live in a mudhut or simply die, if that gave my descendants a chance of unmixed survival and eventual cultural rebirth.

    But that obviously doesn’t apply to the average, belief- and identityless mass of today. That’s precisely why you can’t appeal to them with supernatural arguments or ideas higher than themselves, when they don’t even care now about wordly problems that directly concern themselves and their immediate future.
    First you have to press home rational arguments about finances, the threat to their “quality of living” etc. That’s how you can get people that have to pay 30-40% of their income as taxes, of which only a fraction will in any form return to them.

    If that serves to convince them of the need to act against that threat at all, then you can worry about convincing them with/about anything else.
    But even then you can merely try to inspire them because a true feeling of self-worth can only come from within.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    That’s one behemoth of a post. I’ll try to keep it a bit shorter.
    You must excuse me. I was absent from Skadi for almost 10 years. I am Spjabork, who wrote 470something posts. I would like the get my old account back, it this was possible. Then I would be able, among other things, to find back and re-read my old posts, at least a part of them. But I can not use my old email under which I registered in 2006.
    I wanted to send a PM, but I am not yet allowed to send PMs. Right now I feel awkward, and uneasy.
    After Thiazi was separated from Skadi, I wrote only there, till it was taken out in May 2012. So, since almost 5 years I could not communicate with people of similar political and spirituell leaning.

    I will control myself not to write too much and to join in too many discussions. There is no obligation to answer, right? This is often a bad thing, but sometimes it can also be a good thing.

    I am not afraid of getting banned, temporarily or permanently, I got banned on Thiazi a dozen times. In the end, even my opponents in the discussions got denerved about it and complained to the administrator it was not necessary to ban me that often. They solidarized with me and displayed my avatar when I had to be silent.

    As we actually do nothing, just write, we have all the time of the world. We can respond or not, whenever, and how much we want. I do not expect anything, and I do not hope for anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Comparing a vegetable and ideologies is hardly a fitting comparison. One merely changes eating habits, the other tries to influence a thought system and the behavior resulting from it.
    It is very well fitting. Whatever you say, you always betray your materialism. You always try to seperate things that can't be separated.

    When you are newly born, you know nothing. You do not know how to speak, and what to say. And likewise, you do not know how to eat, and what to eat. Your mother, or some 'elder', must show you everything and must feed you. Some of the food gets into your mouth, thence into the stomach. Some other food gets into your ears, thence into your brain.

    When you are born, you don't know that you are German, but you hear your mother talking to you in German, so you trust her, and swallow it. How long your ancestors already spoke German before you were born, is irrelevant for you. You don't even need to know it. But when you grow up, you maybe want to know it, and inquire.

    When you are born, you don't know that German people eat potatoes, but when you are at a certain age, your mother will give you potato porrige, so you trust her and swallow it. How long your ancestors already ate potatos before you were born is irrelevant for you. You don't even need to know it. But when you grow up, you maybe want to know it, and inquire.

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