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Thread: What If...? An Alternative History of the World

  1. #11
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    But Morocco did emulate Iberian technology, however their gaze was across the Sahara. The desert ruined their armies and Morocco would have found more luck at sea. But, the desire to expand was clearly there; the early colonial disaster was demoralising for Moroccan ambitions just as Darien was for Scotland.
    Interesting, I had never heard of the "Darien Scheme" before. I'll read up a bit on it now.

    Yes, they certaintly emulated Iberian/European technology. It's no wonder being so close to Europe and especially because most of the Moriscos expelled from Spain settled there. The Republic of Salé is a notorious example.

    I even said myself, that they acquired European shipbuilding technology.
    But it takes more than technology to colonise, probably above all a certain adventurous mindset and the will to expand overseas. I don't think expansion into an adjoining region "counts" as proper colonisation.

    I have to admit though, that I don't know much about Moroccan Sahara plans and can't really find anything on it either. Unless you're merely talking about the region "Western Sahara"
    Could you point me to any sources?
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Rome was not ethnically unified like Han China was, and was destined to take a beating during migration ages.
    'Not ethically unified', that's really a nice euphemism for Rome being based on slavery, and China being based on (Ancient) National Socialism.

    You know, slavery, in the long run, inevitably and inavoidably, leads to slave liberation, to 'abolitionism'. And slave liberation, in the long run, inevitably and inavoidably, leads to slave rule over their former 'masters', and to the daughters of the masters getting deflowered and impregnated by the slaves.

    In other words, short cut: slavery is the best soil for race mixing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Flying to the Moon was too costly to bring benefits:
    Yeah it was costly, and they even didn't get there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    European supremacy as it happens was a bad idea
    It was not a bad idea, it was just badly carried out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    - the New Imperialism of the Victorian period was a net loss -
    It was not a loss at all. The British dandies had really a good time, dripping with money. They just started to see ghosts everywhere, out of fear to lose everything over night, 'poor panic' so to speak. They got hysterical about the 'Baghdad Bahn', a one-track railroad, before it was even half completed. This irrational fear of the British upper crust was the ultimate reason for the Great War.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    so if Europeans had no idea what they were doing, its no surprise only Japan and Ethiopia modernised properly. Give time a replay and it might be Bengal or Acre becomes a new Japan?
    You do not in earnest compare the 'modernization' of Abyssinia to that of Japan? And Bengals have the same ability to learn and to apply as Japanese?
    Last edited by Spjabork; Thursday, February 16th, 2017 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Rule 4: Removed mockery.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Spin it as you will, most non-Europeans did not adapt as successfully as the Abyssinians. Note that the country has one of the lowest IQs in the world, but managed to pull it off - bad for HBD theory? And yes, Bengalis were as able to adapt as East Asians and Abyssinians.

    The question who adopts or invents first was asked in the book, Unmaking the West. Chinese culture was hostile to science because scholars were not networked. The Japanese rangaku scholars were; early modern European scholars were. But this is not itself genetic.

    Regarding the New Imperialism (19th century colonialism). All African colonies of Europe, save two or three, were losing money. Belgium and Togo were two exceptions.

    Juthunge: Terra incognita across the world's largest desert is hardly annexing next door. And Islamic universalism was as strong as Catholic universalism.

    Really it is Europe's situation as created by Islam, if anything. Europe faced out onto the Atlantic and was isolated by Islam at the poor end of the Silk Road. Europeans then turned to the sea, undercut the Arab spice trade and went on to dominate the world instead of Islam.

    Morocco however was being drawn into the colonial game at the very start but it was abortive.


    Imagine Carlemange favoured primogeniture. Then think of all the European history butterflied away.

    Carlemagne's immediate enemies were the Byzantines and the pagan Danes. But other powers on his doorstep were the Umayyads and Abassids, Mercians and Bulgarians. England is maybe easiest of these to subjugate.


    Could Germany have won WW1?

    How Germany could have won World War I


    Or what about an earlier WW1? One with Britain and Japan on the German side against Russia and possibly France.

    https://www.alternatehistory.com/for...cident.266709/

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Imagine Carlemange favoured primogeniture. Then think of all the European history butterflied away.
    There is a group of German historians, who deny Charlemagne ever existed. And as you see: even though he not existed, our whole European history was just the same as it was.

  5. #15
    Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
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    The Romans conquer the world and everyone is a papist or some kind of Christian (or heathen). No muslims, jews, heretics, gnostic-inspired 'pagans,' cabalists, New Age goofs, etc. allowed.

    'Militia est vita hominis super terram [The life of man upon earth is a warfare] (Job 7:1).'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    The Romans conquer the world and everyone is a papist or some kind of Christian (or heathen). No (...) jews, (...) etc. allowed.
    You are wrong. The Jews preceded the christians. The are explicitly mentioned and recognized in the christian holy sciptures as 'the children of God'. Paulus says that, although God is a little angry with them, they are not rejected by him. He, God, just will wait patiently till they return to him. But as long as they refuse, he will still hold his hand over them. As a true father will do with his true child, no matter how many adopted children he has.

    In other words: the Jews don't have to convert to catholicism. It's the catholics who patiently have to wait for them, and meanwhile have to be nice to them. Because the catholics are not the biological, they are just the adopted children of God.

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