View Poll Results: What will it be?

Voters
104. You may not vote on this poll
  • Blood

    91 87.50%
  • Culture

    13 12.50%
Page 13 of 23 FirstFirst ... 389101112131415161718 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 225

Thread: Blood or Culture - What's Worth More?

  1. #121
    Senior Member Horagalles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Last Online
    Saturday, August 25th, 2012 @ 02:53 PM
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Subrace
    mainly UP
    Country
    South Africa South Africa
    Gender
    Politics
    Natural Order
    Posts
    1,376
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    It's a bit like the nurture versus nature debate. And one must realize that this question is a bit of a false dilema or category mistake. Nature is what we are and Nurture would be what we experience or have taken over from authority figures (our teachers). The critical point is that nature will be there from the beginning and everything we experience will be interpreted via our senses which have been created by our nature via our blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop View Post
    Blood creates culture but abandoning culture destroys the blood (as can be seen in our multicultural societies). It´s a cycle, so both has to be protected but in the end it´s only the blood that matters. Culture is just a means to an end.
    How we think and how we feel about things is in our blood and that makes us interpret culture. Of course one can manipulate people by cultural means (hegemony) - But if it is not in harmony with what is in the blood it is looking for trouble.
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

  2. #122
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts
    To say it blunt:
    Culture is a tool for our social and cultural species to survive and to have a better life individually and collectively. If its something different, it failed.

    Humans are social and learning beings, they have to be educated, raised by the parents and the group. To overcome our natural limitations and to fully use our potential, we need to build up and start from the achievements our ancestors or simply other humans made for us. Thats the human "success story" (so far).

    If we look at the smaller units inside of our species, namely groups of related and/or similar people, ethnicities are again just a tool, a work in progress and race in itself a process.

    You dont stop at one point and dont go on, if you do, you are most likely dead or close to being dead already, unless a people reached the maximum human developmental state, from which no progress or greater adaptiveness seems to be viable, but from that even the best groups and individuals of the species are far, far away as we all should know...

    Now what I made out of that for myself is:
    There are priorities, the higher hierarchy always comes before the lower, which means:
    Life - Species - Race - Ethnicity - Kin - Individual. If the higher order being endangered, you have to care for that first, because if Life on this planet being ruined, there are no humans. If the species being ruined, there are no Europids/Caucasoids and so on...

    Secondly culture as a tool should enhance our potential, making our group more effective and adaptive, our life easier and guide us through life in a meaningful way.

    Cultural traditions can be distinguished and put into three categories:
    Positive - Neutral - Negative

    The same is true for genetic traits in the kingroup, ethnicity, race, species etc.

    As a general rule, if something is positive, it should be preserved and further spread, if something is neutral, it should be kept if the people want it, since it might in one way or another help people to guide them as group members, even if there is no significant effect of this cultural trait and it could be replaced.

    If something is negative, drops the adaptive potential of a group and its individuals, makes life for the people on an irrational base harder etc., then get rid of it as soon as possible, no matter how old it is, no matter how accepted it is, its something which to eliminate is your duty.

    If culture doesnt fit for the primary goals: Longer term survival of the group and offspring, making life easier for the people and guide them successfully through life, its a degeneration. Like a biological degeneration, a genetic defect, its a case for purification with reasonable and human methods.

    Obviously this also answers the question of race vs. culture, with race I mean related people with similar racial, adaptive qualities in this case.

    A culture without its biological base is worthless and would be only good if giving mankind a great advantage. But if a culture didnt even managed to preserve good genetic and racial material, a people which were well adapted to their habitat and let them replace by foreign elements, on average with a lower level and not as well adapted to the region, what value can such a culture have if it didnt even saved the people, race and bloodlines who made it?

    Then it was an aberration, a degeneration, a failure in itself which couldnt achieve what every ape culture usually achieves, namely the survival and well being of the living subjects who keep that tradition up, "invented it" and carried it on from one generation to the next. Worthless, unsuccessful, a failure of humans and nature, nothing but a suicide program - and for what? For giving a small corrupted elite of plutocratic oligarchs their army of mongrelized and individualised minions which lack any sort of collective will and therefore resistance?

    Its that what will be left of the Occidental culture in the USA and Europe, get over it, its not just worthless but actually harmful.

    And what should those slaves in the totalitarian plutocratic oligarchy do? Mulattoes being proud of their "Viking heritage" or of making "German sausages", jumping around and being nice to view if the new rulers visit the "working class quarters" in their colonies?

    Whether you have an independent collective which is sustainable or not. If not, we have to think about which alternatives we have, another collective or making our group's structure more effective and sustainable again. There is no other way in between for anyone with a clear mind and idealistic spirit.

    Germans and Swedes today are not what Germanics were 2000 years ago, they werent even the same 1500 years from now!

    The real important question can't be repeated often enough:
    On the long run
    - Survival, biological success
    - Better Life, good structures

    Everything else has just to fit and whats fitting best right now must be evaluated by a good leadership from one day to the next, because to carry on cultural elements and structures which make us weaker and are just ballast, endanger an element in the mentioned natural hierarchy, is not just irrational, its also irresponsible.

    Culture is always the help and guide for the people, the living subjects, never the other way around. If a religion or culture leads to the demise of a people as a collective and for the majority of their individuals and bloodlines, it just failed, I can't stress that enough.

    Genes - Memes
    Population/Race - Tradition/Culture (Ethnicity in between)

    Biological and cultural evolution in the species:
    More progressive and effective biological and cultural traits make a group fitter for survival under more circumstances, highly adaptive and usually living on a higher level than comparable groups. Thats superiority.

    A higher level could have been reached if we would have used the occidental/European achievements more effectively, for the strength of our people and race, an effective population policy and rational political and economic system. Unfortunately such approaches didnt succeed and now we go down the drain. And surely its not about some picturesque cultural elements, but the best way out of that mess for our collective, group(s), to save the biological base of our people and giving mankind a better chance for further higher development.

    And be sure thats a fight for the political power, because there is no retreat nor save haven for the weak who have lost, they can be hunted down everywhere. Whether we get our rights and lands back into the hands of our people and build up a rational as well as effective political organisation, or we will be lost in the course of history, with some strange and deranged cultural rests being played for tourists and in small isolated areas of retreat which will be swallowed sooner or later, or die with the rest of deteriorated mankind...

    Culture is the house you live in, but without people living in it, we just deal with some dead stones, always think about those which have to live in it and how to construct a good shelter for them. The house itself is not what its really about. Some Westerners today are like old greedy people, always talking about their wealth and property, but what its value without someone to pass on? For what did they save if not for their offspring and kin? For what do we have a "great culture" if there is no next generation...

    All life will be gone from this planet and this planet itself we die, but thats a long time and lets see how far humans can go. If they go on like they do now and under such corrupted leaders, they most likely won't make the next thousand years, without or without a great "natural" catastrophy and I consider that situation being rather unsatisfactory.

    Once Culture/Tradition is non-existent, we can recreate it, once Race is non-existent, we cannot.
    Well, actually we could, probably, but only with rather artificial means and while having the political power. But if we dont make it now, why should some rests here and there make it in 200 years? Its just highly unlikely, as it is unlikely, that the rulers who preferred to destroy our homogeneous groups and racial base would do anything to recreate it.

    So its only a theoretical, yet no practical option. One can change a culture and still survive, live on successfully. The end of the bloodlines and kin being the end of the story...
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  3. #123
    Senior Member Stygian Cellarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Online
    Saturday, May 12th, 2012 @ 05:59 PM
    Ethnicity
    Celto-Germanic
    Ancestry
    England, Scotland, Germany, Ireland, Wales
    Subrace
    Sindarin
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Maryland Maryland
    Location
    Nargothrond
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Ontological Cryptanalyst
    Politics
    1011000
    Religion
    Spiritual Agnosticism
    Posts
    218
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Agrippa, I agree with all of your comments except the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Now what I made out of that for myself is:
    There are priorities, the higher hierarchy always comes before the lower, which means:
    Life - Species - Race - Ethnicity - Kin - Individual. If the higher order being endangered, you have to care for that first, because if Life on this planet being ruined, there are no humans. If the species being ruined, there are no Europids/Caucasoids and so on...
    Although I understand the source of this perspective, I think it is somewhat misleading. The priorities are to be reversed and this is why:

    The priority of any species is determined by genetic distance. A consequence of this is that preservation of the lowest order secures the existence of all higher orders; if the lowest order exists - the individual, then the highest order exists as well - Life. The reverse situation does not offer that advantage. The preservation of higher orders does not guarantee the existence of the lower.

    So the order of priority would thus be; Individual, Immediate Family, Extended Family, Ethnicity, Race, Species,..........Life.

    That is the general order of priority. Although, the system is much more complex, but the general order is sufficient for all practical concerns regarding this conversation.

    Therefore, if the higher order is endangered, the best way to secure its existence is to care for the lowest order first. If you reverse priorities, you cheat yourself out of having it all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Well, actually we could, probably, but only with rather artificial means and while having the political power.
    There would be no "we" in existence to recreate the race, by any means, artificial or not, if the race is non-existent.
    yDNA: R1a1a1
    mtDNA: H4a1
    Ancestry Painting: 100% European
    23andme Global Similarity: Dead center of English Cluster

  4. #124
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts
    As I put my ideological stance with some basic principles:
    I would define myself as a Progressive Collectivist.
    Maybe I have some affinities to Fascistoid groups, at least they are what is the nearest thing to my conception.

    The Collective is something defined in structures hierachically:

    F.e. Family/relatives, Tribe, Folk or Subrace (F.e. German/Nordish), Ethnic great group/Race (F.e. Europeans or Indoeuropeans/European Europids), progressive mankind/races (F.e. all Europids, East Asians, some Amerindian Races many mixed forms), Mankind (all of those + the rest), Ecosystem (all life on this planet).

    -Just what is good for the preservation and progression of collective, species and ecosystem should be morally acceptable.

    -From an utilitaristic point of view as many people as possible should live good on the highest standard as possible, everytime thinking on the first rule.

    -Individuals got their worth on its own but the collective is usually more important because it is made up by many individuals and it survives individuals.

    -Capitalism is better than planned economy, at least so far, but just a controlled Capitalism is good for what I said above.

    -I'm Pro-Eugenic and for the preservation of my Race(s).
    Progression of mankind on the long run isnt just something happening in technology and culture, it must be something biological too.

    -All good Traditions of Europe and of my folk which are NOT AGAINST the other rules should be preserved.

    -If it is possible (by all useful means which doesnt threat the whole Species or Ecosystem) the European races should be preserved in their SUBSTANCE.

    -Moral and the political system should depend on the needs for the other rules.

    Maybe I forgot some things, but the basic conception should be clear.

    So whats the priority depends on the situation. What I meant is a rather dramatic situation in which your decision are critical and would indeed endanger the higher order:
    F.e. individual and family interest = corruption = this action would mean damage to your group
    The primitive or immoral individual, one being caught in a primitive clan system, will be corrupted - I dont even say corruption is always that evil, but if the decision which comes out of it harms the group, thats a great crime.

    Similar, if the shorter and middle term well being of your group, would lead to the deterioration of your race, or that of your race of the species etc., its non-acceptable.

    So as long as the higher hierarchy being not endangered, the lower comes always first (individual - family - tribe - nation etc.), but as soon as the higher order being at stake, even self-sacrification is the choice of the higher being.

    There would be no "we" in existence to recreate the race, by any means, artificial or not, if the race is non-existent.
    What I mean is a people with a specific set of traits which are the same to Europeans now. I dont think that Europeans will ever completely vanish in the next generations, the unmixed will just go down to rather very low numbers, somewhat comparable to Indians in America...
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  5. #125
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Blod og Jord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Danish
    Country
    Denmark Denmark
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Family
    Engaged parent
    Politics
    Nationalism
    Religion
    Odinism
    Posts
    750
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    127
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    380
    Thanked in
    199 Posts
    I'm agree with Agrippa that:
    "Culture is a tool for our social and cultural species to survive and to have a better life individually and collectively. If its something different, it failed."

    Some people only view culture as folk costumes, language and so.
    But it's more than that.
    It's the entire world view.
    Let me ask you something, why do you think our race is now in decline?
    Because our culture is in decline.
    We have a modern culture which is more open to the foreign,
    than our older cultures.
    We changed our culture to tolerance.
    But it's not real tolerance for everything, it's only tolerance for foreign,
    and intolerance for our own.
    We changed our culture to superficiality. It can be seen in the modern music,
    the modern way of dressing,
    even the modern religion.

    Race can't be without culture, and culture can't be without race. Culture is like the oxygen of the race.
    Take it away, and it won't survive for long.

  6. #126
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    9 Hours Ago @ 08:01 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Northern Germany
    Subrace
    Faelid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    North Rhine-Westphalia North Rhine-Westphalia
    Gender
    Age
    46
    Zodiac Sign
    Sagittarius
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Pestilent Supremacy
    Politics
    Blut und Boden
    Religion
    Fimbulwinter
    Posts
    4,891
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,192
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,293
    Thanked in
    551 Posts
    I'm curious about some details

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    -From an utilitaristic point of view as many people as possible should live good on the highest standard as possible, everytime thinking on the first rule.
    What do you mean exactly by 'as many people as possible'? Does it mean unlimited reproduction or would you limit the population somehow? I mean, mankind consists right now of about 6,8bio people, can 'living good' be archieved for so many individuals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    -Capitalism is better than planned economy, at least so far, but just a controlled Capitalism is good for what I said above.
    Capitalism is part of the reasons why we are in that situation, due to the capitalists needs we continually need more working forces (NOT individuals). So how would you control / limit this, that it becomes a positive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    -I'm Pro-Eugenic and for the preservation of my Race(s).
    Progression of mankind on the long run isnt just something happening in technology and culture, it must be something biological too.
    Agreed, but it is really the question of 'mankind' or do you see this as our duty to 'enlighten' mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    -All good Traditions of Europe and of my folk which are NOT AGAINST the other rules should be preserved.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    So as long as the higher hierarchy being not endangered, the lower comes always first (individual - family - tribe - nation etc.), but as soon as the higher order being at stake, even self-sacrification is the choice of the higher being.
    Would you mind to explain that with more details?
    I can only imagine a situation of self-sacrification for the 'greater good' by people who are able to see the greater good (in this case, race/nation). But wouldnt this mean that exactly those individuals, who would be the most beneficial to the further survival of both, race and culture/nation, 'sacrifice' themselves? Wouldnt this lead to a paradox and ultimately, in the long run, to the exact opposite, ie degeneration of both, race and culture?
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

  7. #127
    Moderator Resist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Canadian
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Canada Canada
    State
    Ontario Ontario
    Gender
    Age
    50
    Family
    Married parent
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    294
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    126
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    359
    Thanked in
    189 Posts
    Although both are preferable, to me there's no question culture without race is worse than race without culture. I'll give you an example from my own country. Not all Canadians are of English or French descent, some are of German, Scandinavian or Dutch descent, but they speak the same language as us and practice the same habits. I don't consider them a tragedy, although they essentially lost their culture and their descendants will at some point become no different from Anglo- or French-Canadians.

  8. #128
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    I'm curious about some details
    Ok, lets go

    What do you mean exactly by 'as many people as possible'? Does it mean unlimited reproduction or would you limit the population somehow? I mean, mankind consists right now of about 6,8bio people, can 'living good' be archieved for so many individuals?
    I mean existing people with developed personalities. Obviously to achieve a better life has to mean for many people, some more than others, to have a strict population policy. F.e. if someone has rather negative genetic traits or even a whole group, I would make a certain way of support and personal option dependent on their willingness to actively and passively participate in whats necessary for the well being of the collective.

    As I said elsewhere, I would let people which dont want to live in that society and system I propose live in their areas and regions and as long as they dont threaten my society and group, the higher hierarchy, they can do whatever they want, but will only get help if they act accordingly.

    So my approach is to give everybody more than one chance and to do something for everybody having a good life, but in return all participants have to do whats necessary for the greater plan and this might include to get less or no children in some cases and more in others.

    Capitalism is part of the reasons why we are in that situation, due to the capitalists needs we continually need more working forces (NOT individuals). So how would you control / limit this, that it becomes a positive?
    Well, thats a huge problem and question, but to begin with, the financial system and the rule of the plutocratic oligarchy must be broken into pieces. As long as the collective, the leadership and state as well as all individuals have to go into the debt of private bankers with partly absolutely unjustified interest rates and as long as corporations being controlled by such "brute capitalist" forces which rely on huge returns for the Capital owners and without a public health and retirement care, things won't change to the better, but only the worse.

    As I said, a huge issue and worth an own thread or various books and many things to consider, but just to highlight some aspects, like I wrote in another forum:

    Alex Jones video, probably his best about the Obama deception:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80711843120756

    Actually its one of the best movies Jones ever made, I'm not that comfortable with this guy, he doesnt get everything straight me thinks, but in this case he made a very good job :thumb001:

    Now watch this movie about the "Money Masters" and Russo's "From Freedom to Fascism" and you get a very good impression of whats all the crap happening in our Europ-countries on both sides of the Atlantic is finally about, namely the cold grip of the plutocratic Oligarchy which wants to extend its power and control over the people. Keep that in mind if reading a Newspaper or watching TV, reading News on the internet, the manipulation of the common people, not just if its about racial and ethnic issues, but also in social, economic and political, yes, even civil rights topics, is tremendous.

    Watch the documantary from above and watch these two too:
    Money Masters:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19560256183936

    From Freedom to Fascism:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173

    Just dont think of the American Constitution being all and everything or even worse, like Russo proposed, think of a Gold standard. The Gold standard was used and abused by the plutocratic oligarchy more than once and since they control the price and volume of the gold, their grip won't get off by changing from Fiat money to a gold standard, probably even on the contrary. Not talking about theoretical and practical objections of a gold standard in general.

    Its about getting back the control of money creation from the corrupted Central Banks in private hands, thats crucial.

    Obama is just one more puppet, nothing else...

    and

    Well, the plutocratic leadership of Western societies was build up constantly over centuries. You must look at the background of this people and their connection in the USA. Plutocratic oligarchs like the Rockefellers and Morgans always had connection to the European groups and they build up a worldwide network.

    The USA in itself is just a tool and nothing else, its truly just the mercenary for them or thats what it seems to become. The US power is just there to keep others down as long as there could be a serious uprising, revolt or political challenge anywhere else. A huge military machine. Thats one of the prime reasons why they keep it up even if they have costs and problems with it.

    I sometimes have to think about a Golem:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem

    In any case, the plutocratic story to success began most likely in Italy, but the most important developments took place when their methods jumped from the Netherlands to England and foundet the Bank of England. That was a pretty good base for some of the most powerful families of that time, with the city of London and largely the same families being still active.

    But then the British Empire became weaker, partly probably even because of the same banking and interest system they developed, but not just because of that. The rising stars were Germany and the USA and in both nations they tried to get in, but mostly in the English speaking USA.

    Their first trials to establish a Central Bank like the Bank of England in the USA were unsuccessful and we can prove historically that the family Rothschild was involved in that. But they learned at the same time they helped some ruthless family clans in the USA to reach a new level. Almost all of them were criminals and had no consciousness, tried to establish huge monopolies, "Trusts" in various economic sectors and eliminated, partly with very harsh methods, all competitors.
    For being able to do so, they already corrupted the whole political system of the USA, but mostly individuals - with the founding of the Federal Reserve however, things changed because with that coup they largely bribed or even bought the whole state.

    From 1913 on the USA were largely just a puppet already and everything which happened later was more or less just a logical consequence of this final takeover.

    With the ability to create money and control its amount, with the government being in their dept, like some plutocratic oligarchs were in that of the Rothschilds and other European bankers, they controlled the state.

    By helping the USA to become the dominant world power and financial superpower, they got their grip on the world. Now the economic power of the USA might go down the drain, but the military power is immense and financial system still works, so its a good tool - still.

    They need it for the last steps with which they want to make Europe a soulless slave like most of America is today and develop total surveillance state, influence and control, especially financial control, over the rest of the world.

    If you have doubts, you can control it by yourself, because one can call it "conspiration theory", but the facts speak for itself, the problem is just that most people dont know the facts or just dont care and are therefore just ignorant slaves in the end and well, thats how exactly how the plutocratic oligarchy looks at the masses, ignorant masses of stupid slaves which believe every damn lie you told them through their corrupted politicians, instituations and the mass media.

    Many aspects of the plutocratic influence on the political sphere are "official", its not just about unknown lobbies, but well known instituations:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council...eign_Relations



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

    Needless to say that the Rockefellers, Rothschilds or some of their minions being always present.

    Gold backed money is no solution, Fiat Money a great idea, the problem comes with the creation of money through debt and the whole system being privately controlled by selected group of people which dont act for the people and out of reach for the public will and control - without a huge political reform or even revolution.

    I'd say look at the history of various plutocratic families in the USA, how they "made their fortune", how influential they were and are and how criminal they acted, what kind of people they were. The funniest thing about the "social system" in the USA is, that "philanthropic" organisations are oftentimes financed by individuals which made 30 billions by spilling blood and then donate one billiion to an organisation which they largely control, which controls the institution it finances and people which need it. So with that "philanthropy" they often mock the people and manipulate them, while having the image of a benevolent angel in the public media.


    Thats really "funny" if you think about it, as is the direct manipulation of the policy. In fact, its laughable how stupid the people are and thats exactly what those which are adept have to think too.

    In the past they often concealed their true goals much more completely then they do now, this shows us that this "world elite" thinks they are relatively secure and close to the goal, so that they dont hide themselves any more.

    Its like it was with some ancient leader who always said he acted in the will of god and for an oracle, but suddenly, when feeling sure, just telling the others that they just have to follow his will, no matter what.


    David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting
    in June of 1991

    In fact, they said much worse things and Greenspan "is a great guy", sometimes talked the truth even while being the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

    The people just lack the knowledge and view on the big picture to put things into context!

    There are already institutions which could transformed into something like the Bank of England or Federal Reserve worldwide:
    - International Monetary Fund (IMF)
    - World Bank
    - Bank for International Settlements (BIS)

    With those institutions, which being controlled by the plutocratic oligarchy, they constantly blackmailed whole nations, forced them into further dept, totally detrimental and unsocial "reforms" and actually raped the people with money they created out of nothing and for which they get interest, exactly like in the USA.

    Its no entrepreneurs controlling anything, not even the managers, its about the owners who use the money just as a tool of control, because they own so much money, its no goal for themselves any more and even if, it gets more and more by itself, through their interest rates and investments, they just need to secure that exploitative system for the next generations, if possible forever...

    Think about the political parties, Hollywood, mass media - the great food producer control of corporations like Monsanto etc., everything else you might dislike or criticise being financed, or has to protected from a buy out, but who has enough money to secure or to ruin everybody? Obviously the bankers, those who control the cashflow worldwide.

    If its about the consequences of such a corrupt economic system and its various forms of degeneration, Erwin Wagenhofer made a good movie about it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E6M3Wsyhro

    This perversions are possible, because to prevent them from happening, would mean to control the financial system in a way, which would also cripple the plutocratic oligarchy. Because no mainstream politician would survive such a demand, nothing happens and the people being brainwashed with "Neoliberal" ideas.

    As soon as the takeover would be complete, I dont know, but they would control it "better" than now, so that only the privileged can still exploit and make frauds, while the others live in a totalitarian and corrupt surveillance state without rights.

    To get through with that, if they feel it might be "helpful" to create even more debt and control, but also later economic growth under their rule, they will even start the next World War, thats for sure, because if you look at how many of their families made their money, you know that war was their greatest business and they never had scruples...

    Even at the time of the Napoleonic Wars you can observe their manipulation, but the good thing then was, most things were personal and there was a press more free than now and people more honest and brave than now, who always reported what happened. Today many things are, or at least were, especially before the World Wide Web, must better concealed and kept secret.

    Most things which happened since 9-11 were just good for one group of people, namely this privileged caste, since they got away with manipulations and decisions which would have never got through otherwise. In the end, its all about the results and how much of freedom being left, how much options for a change, for getting rid of the plutocratic exploitation. If you see that potential shrinking, you know for which people it was done and about what it was about. Even the fight for the Oil being related to the back up of the inflated Dollar, so that they are able to play the game on. That was why Iraq was invaded, he could have accepted other currencies (Euro in particular) for its ressources - inacceptable. If Iran wouldnt have agreed on the compromise, they would have been bombed too. But thats not for the American people on the long run, because it just secures the plutocratic rule over them, no change in sight.

    That system is sick and it must be changed!

    Some facts most people, including myself, dont believe at first sight, but you have to deal with it, investigate for yourself and you will see how it works out...

    Just think about what house building, job and health programs could have been financed with all that money. But they gave it to the banks, even without any real conditions or securities. The home owners and those which tried to get some "real values", like many small investors where caught in this fraud, are left with nothing, many even homeless now, but "the system works" - yet the bank sector is not even stabilised yet and the economic base of the USA is still shrinking and the social downfall of the middle class to the lower classes and the lower classes into the slums - including Euro-Americans - goes on.

    Great job. If anybody still had doubts about the true nature of the US-system, he should see it now or stay blind and politically immature.

    I mentioned the candidates and institutions for a new "Federal World Bank" - well, I forgot to mention about that, that just recently and of course "because of the crisis" the IMF got the right to issuing bonds and the rules for this way to raise money on this own right being pushed through with massive pressure on other nations.

    IMF will sell bonds to raise money for loans

    This possible bond issue was examined recently by Bloomberg.com. The Bloomberg article points to what I think is the most significant aspect that an IMF bond issue would present. I'm concerned that IMF bonds would directly compete with U.S. Treasury bonds. That possibility is fodder for a great deal of speculation.
    By putting pressure on the status quo in the form of leverage sloughing via zero responsibility bonds, the IMF can gain significant sway over world development. The best part for the IMF is that their members would be footing the bill. Remember, the IMF is truly responsible for nothing.
    It's no wonder that U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is pressuring the Obama administration to seek approval from Congress to contribute up to $100 billion to the IMF. Obviously, Mr. Geithner would prefer that our U.S. Treasuries continue to dominate the world bond market. An IMF-instigated bond issue could change the balance of world economic power in the blink of an eye.They've been telling you for decades that the U.S. government could never go bankrupt.
    http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/0...-a-good-thing/

    More and more deficit spending with high interest rates for the bankers, while the social and health policy being further cut down and the jobs melt away.

    That the US citizens can still buy their goods as usual is largely the result of the this fraud, simple put, without it the USA would need a restart, so they are somewhat caught and I think many politicians know that very well. Its not just the corruption, but also the fact that they are seriously afraid of any real alternative, even if they would be able to get it through. Because is must mean to the US people a dramatic change in their way of life and thinking, which is so deeply corrupted that small reforms won't correct enough at all...

    The future lies in a "Federal World Bank" fraud with a worldwide financial and therefore political control of the people with the big "Bulldog" still in the background, namely the US military and propaganda machine, which being kept alive even if the economy goes down the drain and society deteriorates with growing prison camps all over the country, riots here and there, no middle class alive and the military and transnational corporations in the hands of the plutocratic oligarchy being the only job and food producer in many regions.

    At the end of the day the US and most of the world will be so deep in debt in the bank system and therefore plutocratic oligarchy, that it was never and can never be whether the states and people can pay it back in a "normal way" - going after the current standards. It was always about leaving this faulty kind of Central Banking System behind for a more sustainable and fair alternative system.

    So a major problem for all changes to the better is currently the plutocratic oligarchy with its centres in the USA and GB. Unless their rule being destroyed, the people cannot be free and better social and economic system is not viable.


    Agreed, but it is really the question of 'mankind' or do you see this as our duty to 'enlighten' mankind?
    We are all part of mankind and race as well as culture is a just a process, I think that some races and cultures have a greater potential than others for bringing the whole species forward and yes, that we have to enlighten and help other groups of the same human species as long as it doesnt harm our own group.

    Mankind in the way I mean it is the biological species and greater unity of all humans. It doesnt mean however that a more adaptive and progressive kind of people has to consider the well-being of another group if it would be detrimental to them.

    Would you mind to explain that with more details?
    I can only imagine a situation of self-sacrification for the 'greater good' by people who are able to see the greater good (in this case, race/nation). But wouldnt this mean that exactly those individuals, who would be the most beneficial to the further survival of both, race and culture/nation, 'sacrifice' themselves? Wouldnt this lead to a paradox and ultimately, in the long run, to the exact opposite, ie degeneration of both, race and culture?

    I can only imagine a situation of self-sacrification for the 'greater good' by people who are able to see the greater good (in this case, race/nation). But wouldnt this mean that exactly those individuals, who would be the most beneficial to the further survival of both, race and culture/nation, 'sacrifice' themselves? Wouldnt this lead to a paradox and ultimately, in the long run, to the exact opposite, ie degeneration of both, race and culture?
    Yes, but thats an Eugenic problem and a question of organisation. We are dealing with such negative effects of biological and sociocultural contraselection since civilisation exists and under various circumstances even primitive tribal groups had a rather one sided and degenerative development.

    The progressive and harmonious development of the physique and psyche is the way for further Hominisation and higher development, there are many possible factors, without actually organising a population policy, which might destroy that potential and development.

    All mass wars f.e. are highly contraselective, they always were, even among greater tribes.

    Wars were also responsible for some of the best developments, but only under the circumstances under which those who sacrificed themselves helped with their sacrific people with the same or at least similar biological and cultural traits.

    F.e. today an idealistic, schizothymic Nordoid woman with all positive traits cares for the children of degenerated and criminal morons in a social institution while having no family and children on her own. Obviously that doesnt work out on the long run, thats one of the main reasons, beside obvious defects and highly adaptive new genetic traits, why we desperately need a humane, controlled Eugenic and population policy.

    By these Eugenic and Euphenic measures we increase the percentage of idealistic, intelligent, attractive etc. individuals. So what we would make is a selective regime which end product is a more group oriented, decent, capable, versatile and valuable human being.

    What we get out of mass wars and negative selection are degenerated subjects which are unable or unwilling to do something for the group, in many cases for genetic reasons already. Stupid, egoistic or both.

    The best selective regime was at work in the late Neolithic and Metal Age times in Europe. Actually the individuals of those clans would be much more suitable and capable for whats being needed now than the average of the current European population, yet not talking about non-European groups.

    Biologically everything has to pay off and what we need for a better society and human species is good traits to pay off by reproductive success and bad traits being bred out. Today the exact opposite is true either on the intrapopulational and interpopulational level. So f.e. both inside of the German people the worse elements have more offspring and other, on average less positive ethnic groups have more offspring too. The same is true for most nations now, just less extreme in some, so intrapopulational contraselection being now a problem of mankind, because of the Western sociocultural pattern, which is degenerative in itself.

    If an intelligent-idealistic Nordid would sacrifice himself for a Nordid who is a stupid egoist, it won't work neither, because its about the specific traits, either sociocultural (individual experiences, family, region, moral etc.) and biological. In the end there would be a stupid and egoistic Nordid population, with the good genes which made the type valuable in the past being bred out in the most extreme scenario.

    Self sacrifice doesnt have to mean that one needs to blow oneself up in most cases, it just have to mean that your short term oriented personal interests must stay behind for the greater good in specific situations and that you have "a feeling" for higher values, greater goods and collective moral approaches.

    The ideal I call "higher Idealism", which means the combination of an idealistic will with a rational mind. "Lower" or "primitive" Idealism might be as or even more fanatic, but lacks the ratio, might be driven by simple prejudices, religious superstition and the inability to adapt ones world view to changing conditions and challenges, to consider new and more facts, staying flexible and reasonable while being at the same time hard and fanatic if necessary, once you know whats needed for reaching the goal. Individuals must be always ready to sacrifice themselves in desperate situations for the collective.

    Such people or personalities with the ability to develop such traits being by far much more common among progressive racial forms.

    The greatest problem comes from misled idealism, like the soldier fighting a bad war for the plutocrats or a female academic dont getting own children and caring for those of degeneranted subjects.

    So if the head being corrupted of a such a group, the whole body might still work like an effective machine, but no longer for the people which keep it still up. Thats exactly the situation we face in most Euro-nations worldwide and the USA and Germany in particular. The body still works, but no longer for the own group and people, not even for mankind, but just the small corrupted elite which betrayed all.

    Compare if its about contraselection with these threads:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=38300

    Intelligent and dedicated males are much more likely to die in a mass war, because they being more often among the young officer ranks and tend to be more active on the battlefield f.e., new studies prove that.

    Birth rates:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=60647

    Eugenics and future of humanity:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=418

    "Nordicism and progressive Eugenics":
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=40375
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  9. #129
    Senior Member Stygian Cellarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Online
    Saturday, May 12th, 2012 @ 05:59 PM
    Ethnicity
    Celto-Germanic
    Ancestry
    England, Scotland, Germany, Ireland, Wales
    Subrace
    Sindarin
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Maryland Maryland
    Location
    Nargothrond
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Ontological Cryptanalyst
    Politics
    1011000
    Religion
    Spiritual Agnosticism
    Posts
    218
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jael View Post
    Some people only view culture as folk costumes, language and so.
    But it's more than that.
    Jael, I think it's very important you mention this. Although there are some individuals in here that are well aware of this, some people are not. Whenever I talk about culture to people I cannot stress it enough that it is not just those things. To make it easy for them I tell them that culture is anything limited to humans (other than specific physiological attributes). There are two categorical manifestations; material and immaterial.

    Examples of its material manifestations would include; a pencil, clothing, Rocket ship, boat, fire, machine gun, nuclear power, food in any condition other than its natural state, a dam, crops, radar, sewing machine, domesticated animals, traffic signals, tanks, chain mail, electricity, sewer systems, cell phones, a crown, curtains, prosthetic limb, cutlery, carpet. In short, any rearrangement of matter to serve our interests. Mind projected into the material domain. External.

    Examples of immaterial manifestations would include; language, philosophy, song, politics, mathematics, theories, law, economic system, knowledge, folkways, mores, taboos. In short, structural information systems to serve our interests. Internal.

    The ultimate goal - survival.

    Also, one thing essential to my world-view is viewing everything from an information perspective. Viewing things from the perspective of: what is happening to information in this situation? I like to imagine I could see information and observe its movements. With culture, information being first reconfigured in the mind. Regarding the immaterial manifestation it remains in the mind or is transferred to other minds. Regarding material manifestations, the psychological information structure becomes projected into an environmental information structure and reconfigures it.

    Another thing worth noting is the difference between culture and tradition. Tradition just being a specific subset of culture. Cultural elements viewed as essential for survival. Positive cultural elements selected and passed down generation to generation. Since there are those 3 divisions of culture that Agrippa mentioned, how do we isolate the positive cultural elements and share this knowledge with future generations? With a body of thought that acts as a reservoir for that information - tradition. It is the body of positive cultural selection.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jael View Post
    Let me ask you something, why do you think our race is now in decline?
    Because our culture is in decline.
    We have a modern culture which is more open to the foreign,
    than our older cultures.
    We changed our culture to tolerance.
    But it's not real tolerance for everything, it's only tolerance for foreign,
    and intolerance for our own.
    We changed our culture to superficiality. It can be seen in the modern music,
    the modern way of dressing,
    even the modern religion.

    Race can't be without culture, and culture can't be without race. Culture is like the oxygen of the race.
    Take it away, and it won't survive for long.
    I hope you don't mind me responding to this.

    For the most part, our culture is intact and not under attack. It is the specific subset of our culture that is under attack - our tradition. The body of knowledge that guides us in such a way that we make advantageous survival based decisions; of what to do and how to do it. That is what's under attack. I don't mean short term survival strategies either, the individual in the here and now can exist, it is the long term trans-generational strategy that has dissolved.

    The material manifestations of culture are not degenerated, indeed they are still evolving. It is the immaterial manifestations that have degenerated and are degenerating. This does not mean it cannot translate to material culture, it can, but its source is immaterial. The example you mentioned of modern dress is a good example. Racy clothing is a symptom of degenerated folkways.

    This attack on western tradition is largely a result of Jews ----> Marxism -----> Frankfurt school, it's sympathizers, descendants and those acting in accordance with its methods (whether they know what they are really doing or not). In short, Liberalism. Originally, a deliberate removal and perversion of our value system; mores and folkways erased or perverted and taboos dissolved. Its a recipe for our destruction. However, there is a large non-deliberate mass of our population that has been indoctrinated and recruited to further these ends. They are unaware of what they are truly doing and do not fully understand the consequences of their actions.

    Some tactics include:
    • Relentless criticism of our traditional institutions.
    • The dissolution of racial identity and collectivism through universal egalitarianism, social theories that deny biological differences, etc.
    It's most extreme manifestation being not only the dissolution of racial identity to the neutral, but driving it into the negative through unyielding criticism of our race. The promotion of individuality, the glorification of non-European races and their achievements, but attributing our achievements to humanity as a whole, etc.
    • The dissolution of the family through the women "liberation" movement, relentless criticism of our traditional family structure, suggestion to children that the knowledge and advice of grandparents and parents is "out of date", "not with the times", "close minded", or "oh they were just taught that way, they don't know any better, the times have changed". Which undermines the authority of elders and severs the link of traditional information flow.

    These are just a few although their are many, many others.
    yDNA: R1a1a1
    mtDNA: H4a1
    Ancestry Painting: 100% European
    23andme Global Similarity: Dead center of English Cluster

  10. #130
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts
    The problem with the Western culture is that the clan structures being eliminated and the blood rule being eliminated, both by the Christian church and dogmas.

    The common peasants and citizens were all made to clan-free subjects without the consciousness of the blood on the longer run. The only group in Western Europe which, as a whole, was not as much individualised and ripped from its tradition of blood was the aristocracy. The aristocratic way of life kept much longer the more natural approach to things like marriage, children etc., like it was common in most Indoeuropeans before Christianity.

    Now the good thing about this clan-free and socially disciplined citizens is, that they can be formed into a greater community, a nation, with less corruption, more flexibility and law abiding. In fact, these Western people are rather helpless individually if being compared to clan based societies, like they themselves were before Christianity and the Feudal economy.

    So without a good leadership and a state working for them, they are just an individualised mess, easier to manipulate and harder to find their way to resistance, to alternative structures.
    Even worse if in their society of helpless individuals come immigrants which are still clan based. The newcomers can profit from their stronger family ties and "the knowledge of blood", while the average Western citizen being just the law-abiding jerk which keeps up the structures.

    If you look at organised crime, its often quite similar to clan wars. If you look at the plutocratic oligarchy, they act like aristocrats, if you look at street gangs and the small shop owners of mostly Asian background, they being backed up by their families and its in all that cases much more natural to give birth to more children, to at least get one or better more heirs.

    So the Liberal and individualist approach to family and life is probably in a way the end product of the Western family structures development, from the clan based society to extended family, to nuclear family, to single mothers and children in private and state owned institutions...

    The problem is the leadership, those individualised subjects, even if they think of themselves as "free and independent", live in an illusion, because the working woman f.e. is neither more free nor more able self-realise herself if looking at the big picture, if looking at the end result. Because the greatest self-realisation is to have surviving offspring, which keeps up the bloodline.

    But thats something Western Europeans lost long time ago, Christianity in itself had no natural and good approach to this.

    I dont want to bring the people and society back to the tribal or clan based organisation, thats detrimental for civilisation and higher cultural development, it makes humans vulnerable and isnt necessary at all.

    We just need to correct inside of the modern civilisation and state structures those elements which went wrong, which dont work, which are not sustainable on the long run.

    Dont think it all came just with Cultural Marxism and modern Neoliberalism, yes, that are its worst outcomes so far, but it began earlier, it was a "Western weakness" and some people saw that long time ago. They tried to correct it, probably not always in the best way, probably not always in the most humane way, but that there must be a collective approach and healing of the Western disease was clear for them and it must be clear to us.

    As for the Western family structures and social development from medieval times on:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=40331
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

Similar Threads

  1. Is an O.B.E. Still Worth Anything?
    By SaxonPagan in forum England
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: Wednesday, January 11th, 2012, 04:01 PM
  2. What's it Worth?
    By infoterror in forum Articles & Current Affairs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Saturday, June 4th, 2005, 07:53 AM
  3. What's it Worth?
    By infoterror in forum The Hearth
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Saturday, June 4th, 2005, 02:54 AM
  4. The Cardial Ceramic Culture (or Impressed Ceramics Culture)
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Friday, August 22nd, 2003, 07:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •