Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 51 to 55 of 55

Thread: Mealtime Prayers?

  1. #51
    Senior Member Edenkoben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Online
    Friday, September 19th, 2008 @ 09:17 PM
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Age
    60
    Posts
    179
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 917111
    Praying is saying thanks to non-humans such as the earth or the gods.
    This is too narrow a definition of prayer; for someone who holds that the gods do exist, then to invoke them at mealtime is a way to invite them to the table. To claim such an invocation as meaningingless at least implies that faith is also meaningless. Is that really what you mean to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by 917111
    The world is the way that it is. Everything is matter and energy, both of which behave physically. This matter and energy is currently in a specific position, and in the future this matter and energy will behave as matter and energy do.
    You omit an important aspect of this physicalistic view: that we change the position and hence the effects of matter and energy by our own physical and mental actions; hence, invoking a god is not supernatural event but a natural one, in which case to converse with gods is equally natural.

    Quote Originally Posted by 917111
    We perceive only two things. Our consciousness and everything else which surrounds us, both of which are physical.
    This is counterfactual; consciousness is not physical even though there is physical evidence to support its existence; you are reversing what is evidence with what is confirmed by that evidence.

    You've strayed, IMO, from your earlier claim that thanking a god is a kind of inappropriate supplication for things owed to you from that god (am I understanding you correctly?) or for things that are not the work of that god but of man. Is your physicalist stance compatible with any sort of faith experience?

    I don't think the gods are charmed by supplicants (I think we agree on that point), but I do think that prayer-as-invocation or -as-communion is not an act of supplication (and by communion i don't mean in the christian sense but in the sense that the gods are immanent in the world, not invisible to it).

    Just as we show respect in order to honor our elders, we use prayer to respect and honor the gods whose own actions have formed the reality in which we live (by their actions that change matter and energy).

    If you're arguing atheism, maybe we should take that up on another thread?:mannaz:

  2. #52
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Last Online
    Wednesday, May 14th, 2008 @ 04:25 AM
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Age
    35
    Posts
    12
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    My intention was to imply that the mind is a physical machine, so that consciousness, which is formed by this physical machine, is physical in nature.

    If you're arguing atheism, maybe we should take that up on another thread?
    http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2687

    Is your physicalist stance compatible with any sort of faith experience?
    Only in a faith of the physical.

    I am under the impression that few here believe in the physical existence of the gods; most see them as traditional representations of natural forces and as useful fables.

  3. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Friday, April 3rd, 2009 @ 10:10 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian
    Ancestry
    Maternal: Norway, Paternal: Massachusetts
    Subrace
    I don't know Lundman's taxonomy.
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Connecticut Connecticut
    Location
    South Glastonbury, Connecticut
    Gender
    Age
    89
    Family
    Single, not looking
    Occupation
    Nothing (retired)
    Politics
    monarchist
    Religion
    agnostic
    Posts
    1,701
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Mealtime prayers

    If, as I consider intuitively plausible, though I cannot prove it, a Supreme Being exists, and if, as commonly conceived, this Supreme Being is onmiscient, then it knows both my needs and my thoughts. What then is the point of addressing One who already knows what I am going to say and whether it is sincere or not ?

    I have prayed and apparently got results. Whether this was coincidence or not, I cannot determine. I cannot help thinking, though, that it is rather presumptuous of me to imagine that my wheedling influenced the course of events or the working of the will of the Supreme Being.

    For this reason, I refrain from coaxing and flattering the most sublime entity in ther universe. The notion which some hold that "God" [i.e. the Supreme Being ?] created mankind in order to have someone to praise "him", is one of the most demeaning and blasphemous characterizations of the Supreme Being of which I have ever heard. What sort of an emotionally insecure entity creates an intelligent race just so that it can praise that entity ?

    If one has faith in the benevolence of his god, then he need ask for nothing .
    If he is grateful, an omniscient being already knows it. Let him then rest secure in his faith. Prayer is unnecessary. If he lacks such faith, what grounds has he for expecting his prayer to be efficaceous ?

    As an agnostic, I don't know whether or not a Supreme Being exists, or, if it exist, whether it be favourably inclined toward me, or even consciously aware of my existence. Given that there are about 6,000,000,000 human beings on this planet and that this MAY be but one of billions of inhabited planets, it seems to me that the odds do not favour the idea that the Supreme Being is concerned about my petty problems in any way at all.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Edenkoben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Online
    Friday, September 19th, 2008 @ 09:17 PM
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Age
    60
    Posts
    179
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 917111
    My intention was to imply that the mind is a physical machine, so that consciousness, which is formed by this physical machine, is physical in nature.
    Thank you for that link; it is helpful.

    Mind=machine and machine forms a physical consciousness. So physical consciousnes is formed by physical mind?

    What's the difference b/n mind and consciousness, or are they the same (in which case they are self-formed...a physicalist's manfesto of ex nihilo)?

    Regardless of whether the gods are existing being or representative of natural forces, the act of speaking to them or of them, by your own lights, changes them in place and time. More importantly, the act changes us in space and time. And that, I think, is reason enough to speak to the gods--not for their sake but for ours. I think this is integral to understanding the original post--seeking to bring a family closer together through ritual and custom. And if this stimulates nothing more than the correct brain chemistry, that is as real as anything else.

    Athiests and Believers suffer the same logical morass--neither can convince the other b/c they each decline to admit the stipulations of the other, stipulations that, once accepted lead only to the pre-determined conclusion.

    I think Egil's is the stance best adopted when dealing with the 'other camp' (whichever it is). One does not know nor can one prove.

    The physicalist has the additional deficiency, however, of pretending access to the interior experiences of others, a task that is self-contradictory (these experiences, so far, cannot be perceived by another). So for Hans to say "I have had a physical, perceptive experience with a god" is inaccessible to the physicalist. Hans' experience may be unverified but it is not unverifiable.

  5. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, June 8th, 2007 @ 02:52 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Gender
    Politics
    LEFT WING NATIONAL SOCIALIST
    Religion
    Pagan Odinist
    Posts
    33
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    I think praying before meals and before you start your day and at the end of the day is a good thing. It shows respect for the Gods and it shows humility and respect.

    I mean in my old church we believed in verbal prayers and silent prayers. Before as a Christian I said my prayers sometimes and when I did I said them outloud. I believe that silent prayers are good because your still praying, but verbal prayers are better because your saying it with conviction and faith.

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456

Similar Threads

  1. Bedes or Prayers to the Gods
    By Blutwölfin in forum Germanic Heathenry
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, November 6th, 2005, 09:14 PM
  2. Prayers in Limburgian dialect
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Wednesday, March 16th, 2005, 01:07 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •