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Thread: Italians may make 'small doses' of torture legal

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    Senior Member Mac Seafraidh's Avatar
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    Post Italians may make 'small doses' of torture legal

    Italians may make 'small doses' of torture legal

    By Philip Willan in Rome



    23 April 2004

    Torture may be acceptable provided it is administered in small doses, says a bill under discussion in the Italian parliament that has outraged human rights organisations.

    The Chamber of Deputies yesterday passed an amendment, tabled by the far-right Northern League, to the bill which opposition MPs denounced as a green light to "limited" torture but which government supporters said was essential for police.

    The amendment says violence and threats must be used repeatedly to qualify as torture. The League said the previous wording had been influenced by police violence at the G8 summit in Genoa three years ago.

    "We ... have to make it clear that we don't support those who want to criminalise the police, making their job practically impossible," said Carolina Lussana, the League MP who drafted the amendment.

    Marco Bertotto, the chairman ofAmnesty International in Italy, said the law did not respect the terms of a United Nations convention on torture which was ratified by Italy in 1988.

    independent.co.uk

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Torture in Italia

    This could be widened to a discussion on torture itself.

    Is it ever right to torture people?

    Never?

    Sometimes?

    If sometimes, under what circumstances?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Member Strengthandhonour's Avatar
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    Post Re: Torture

    I think torture can be a very powerful tool. With a young child, you tell him not to touch some random object and if he does he will be punished, most of the time the child will do it and will get punished, he will be punished and learn the lesson(ok atleast most of the time). That's what would happen with torture I believe. See, I don't think prison is harsh enough, even through I never been to prison(and I hope I never end up in prison).
    I think torture would work better. There would be less chances of the person doing it again I think if he is tortured.
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    Post Re: Torture

    Torture at times is the only way to get the enemy to co-operate. And if that information is very useful and may even save lives of the people on your side. Than why not?

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    Post Re: Torture

    I find it amazing that those who advocate torture or at least "encourage" it to a certain degree are usually the ones who could never endure it.




    @Strengthandhonour

    See, I don't think prison is harsh enough, even through I never been to prison(and I hope I never end up in prison).
    I don't know how the prisons are where you live, but where I live, being isolated from your loved ones and being continuously sexually harassed and raped (Male rape) by the same sex in a prison cell does qualify as torture.

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    Post Re: Torture in Italia

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    This could be widened to a discussion on torture itself.

    Is it ever right to torture people?

    Never?

    Sometimes?

    If sometimes, under what circumstances?
    As a moral relativist, my only question would be who's doing the torture and for what end. To preserve my kind I would shrink from nothing.

    I don't know the situation in Italy very intimately but, due to the support torture gets from the Northern League, it would have my de facto blessing.
    If I rest, I rust.
    - Martin Luther

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    Post Re: Torture

    There is the feeling that if we do not use torture, then regimes that do will have an unfair advantage.

    So until torture is COMPLETELY eradicated world-wide [fat chance] then we will have to use torture ourselves otherwise our enemies will have one over on us.
    That is an amoral position I suppose.

    We could get others to do our torturing for us so we can say, 'WE do not torture'!
    And we could then condemn other regimes for using torture!
    Oh the hypocrisy - as if!

    There is also the fact that humans are quite sadistic and enjoy the spectacle of torture.
    Torture as an art spectacle.

    Degrees of torture - mind games as limited torture.

    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Member Strengthandhonour's Avatar
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    Post Re: Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Conquistador
    I find it amazing that those who advocate torture or at least "encourage" it to a certain degree are usually the ones who could never endure it.





    I don't know how the prisons are where you live, but where I live, being isolated from your loved ones and being continuously sexually harassed and raped (Male rape) by the same sex in a prison cell does qualify as torture.
    Obviously that is a punishment. But, is that a punishment enough? I mean, the person is just going to be depressed or upset while being in jail, but once he gets out of jail and is back with his beloved ones, then what?
    Just close your eyes...can you remember
    The generations not so long ago
    I feel the shameless urge that we must restore
    Our former king to his rightful throne
    And with me lords and maidens
    We wait for the chosen son's return

    I come alive
    It's a time for celebration
    Our will to restore
    Make our past become the futre once more

    Still he lives! 2000 years have passed
    And still we're yearning for his return
    We fulfill a wishful prohecy
    And so the chanting begins
    Hail Caesar...Hail Caesar...we render unto you
    What is still yours

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    Post Re: Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour
    Obviously that is a punishment. But, is that a punishment enough? I mean, the person is just going to be depressed or upset while being in jail, but once he gets out of jail and is back with his beloved ones, then what?
    It depends on the person and the certain situation the person was in. If the person was alone without any harassment and just ONLY confinement, yes, he or she would be depressed and upset. However, it is sometimes never the case.

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    Post Re: Torture

    My point is, That we need to find another way to "Punish" the criminals, in a most succesful way. Just like with drug abuse, A boy does it and gets yelled at and says I'll never do it, a couple of months later he goes out and does it because he thinks things are fine now. But see, if he was punished, he would know and realize that if he does something wrong, he will be punished again and feel that pain.
    Just close your eyes...can you remember
    The generations not so long ago
    I feel the shameless urge that we must restore
    Our former king to his rightful throne
    And with me lords and maidens
    We wait for the chosen son's return

    I come alive
    It's a time for celebration
    Our will to restore
    Make our past become the futre once more

    Still he lives! 2000 years have passed
    And still we're yearning for his return
    We fulfill a wishful prohecy
    And so the chanting begins
    Hail Caesar...Hail Caesar...we render unto you
    What is still yours

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