View Poll Results: What's your view on abortion?

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  • It's morally wrong

    36 20.22%
  • Abortion is in some extreme cases (rape etc.) morally acceptable.

    86 48.31%
  • It's morally acceptable

    18 10.11%
  • Abortion is a personal matter and so neither moral nor amoral

    38 21.35%
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Thread: What is Your View Regarding Abortion?

  1. #1
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    What is Your View Regarding Abortion?

    What's your view regarding abortion? Pro? Contra? Depends? Has your view on this topic any connections with your faith?
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    History of abortion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion

    This topic has become a pivot point in political movements of the extreme and/or religious right. For some it's a question of what God does not want and for others it's a question of some misguided idea that Hitler hated it. Hitler in fact thought it was fine for anyone who wasn't his version of "Aryan". Hitler was a man with a mission and that mission had nothing to do with God or ethics, but was purely eugenic and racial. I have encountered some extremist folk from political, Christian and Heathen persuasions who have decidedly archaic views on both contraception and abortion. I have left off this discussion after the sheer stupidity laced with Biblical chauvinism that ensued. There is no point in even trying to discuss the matter with these people. Especially if you are a woman. The aggression isn't worth it and the insults make things worse. The high level of ignorance and superstition, of fear and intolerance compounds the issue.

    Abortion has been a human practice among all kinds of people since the earliest times. Nature practises it too when conditions are not normal in the womb. Only when nature does it it's called a miscarriage, or a "spontaneous abortion".

    Unwanted children are those who have not been planned. They tend to occur today among first world populations only when contraception fails. There is an increasing number that occur because first world women are falling into ignorance and alcoholism (because socialism itself is failing to educate them) and becoming pregnant without recourse to preventative methods. Their options are an abortion morning after pill or a full abortion of the foetus at various stages up to a certain cut off period, as we all know.

    The issue is a tricky one for moralists but not for pragmatists. The tax payer should not have to be burdened with both his own financial contributions as well as contributions to support the world's unwanted flotsam. Added to this it should be borne in mind that to pontifiacte upon people who are forced to do is not the province of anyone who has never found him or herself in a similar predicament. Some people just cannot have the children they have conceived and if these were to be born they would face almost certain neglect. It is not wonderful simply to be alive. It is wonderful to be alive and be significant enough to have a place and destiny and enough food to get through each day, not to have to live in a filthy apartment sixty floors up nor spend your life watching your junkie single mother shoot up and sleep with strangers to pay the rent and support your other ten brothers and sisters who where all conceived in the same way you were. Single parenthood should be discouraged. Families are the best way to bring up children.

    However that is all well and good in la-la land where everything goes right, but in the real world which is harsh and cruel and where survival often hangs by a thread one must be realistic.

    Many right wing politicians have a one sided view of abortion. Usually you find males pontificating on the topic of what evil "selfish" people women are who have abortions and how they only have them because they "want careers", etc. This I find banal, stupid, ignorant and unacceptable. With the result that I cannot support their dumb political parties no matter how much I perhaps should in the long run. In the short run I get tripped up by things that serve as warnings about what kind of world and society these overtly Biblical individuals and their troops want for those of us who end up on the wrong side of failed contraception or failure to practise it.

    I have never had an abortion but that doesn't mean I do not sympathise with women who had found it necessary. It is a terrible thing to willfully murder your own unborn child and I don't think it's necessary to vilify these people. They have their own demons to fight and as time goes on they often feel extremely unhappy about what they had to do.

    People should be mature and look at it this way. We now live in a promiscuous society. Boys hardly old enough to wear long pants are having sex with girls hardly old enough to have stopped playing with dolls. Adolescents now engage in sexuality that is really only suitable for people aged over eighteen. People drink enormous amounts of alcohol and are often not in any condition to know where they were or with whom when these pregnancies happen. Drug use has a similar result. So unless we drastically change our behaviour these abortions will not only be necessary they will be essential or society will burst at the seams with the results of indiscriminate reproduction and many deeply unhappy offspring, dependent on welfare or growing up without the benefit of nuclear families.

    If men would like women to stop aborting so many foetuses then they must understand that their own sexual behaviour is fostering the entire process. They wouldn't for a moment want to stop sleeping around with people they hardly know. This has become a sort of cultural practise. But if they were asked to help look after and financially support every single one of these unplanned offspring they would end up being fathers many times over to people they have no bond with and whose mothers they have no feelings for.

    The whole abortion issue needs to be approached from a realistic angle. Or people could mind their own business and stop trying to direct the lives of women when they have no real interest in either women or their unwanted offspring but are simply jumping on a misogyny bandwagon fuelled by copious quantities of hypocrisy and archaic religious moral injunction.

    Every child born planned, wanted and to two responsible parents is worth more than all the foetuses you could flush down the drain in a million years. Many babies are still being born and to those who cannot have children there could be institutions who agreed to support mothers who wanted to give their babies up for adoption. The rest of the badly bred horde will definitely not be missed. And none of them would thank you for saving them if all they did was end up in some backstreet or a terrible housing estate with a bunch of crackheads for parents and a horde of aggressive immigrants for companions. Often abortion can be a smart move and the girl, having learnt from her mistake can go on to have children who are wanted and well cared for with someone who isn't going to abandon her.

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    What is your view regarding abortion ?

    Abortion is murder. The argument over just when the foetus becomes a human being will never be resolved. I base my view of it on genetics. At conception, the genetic basis of the human being is established. From then on, it is just a matter of development. Abortion prevents the existence of a human being. This is a much more momentous matter than getting rid of an annoying growth in the uterus. This story may be apocryphal, but the point is valid. At a meeting of cardinals in Rome to discuss the issue of abortion, one is said to have remarked "If abortion had been legal 70 years ago, how many of us would be here discussing it today ?" Think about that. Unwanted children have gorwn up to be great men and women. Of course, some have grown up to be criminals. The same is equally true of wanted children. There are people living and dead whom we might well wish had been aborted as foetuses , but we can never know which aborted foetuses might have grown up to be a boon to mankind. If abortion had been legal 76 years ago, I would not be writing this letter. I WOULD NOT EXIST ! Admittedly, this fact colors my view of abortion. I would say to any woman who could otherwise bear the child and put it up for adoption if she did not wish to rear it, but chooses to abort the foetus " THINK of what you are doing ! You are willfully destroying a human being. " Even if the child is conceived by rape, can that fact possibly justify denying it the right to exist ?

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    Yes, I can justify it. I would point blank refuse to carry the child of a rapist. If society took that right from me then they may as well set the rapist free.

  5. #5
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    there are so many things that you can use , so you dont have to get pregnant..
    and i'm also a big believer in:: start with sex when your in a serieus relationship, and dont sleep around..
    so many girls my age already have kids, not that that's a bad thing but they dont have a father figur for the child.
    girls of 20 years want to party, and not be stuck in a relationship..
    so for some girls abortion is a way out.
    but íf i got pregnant abortion is not an option, if it's under normal surcumstances that is.
    i dont know what i will do if its becouse i got raped..

    i see a child as a blessing, and not a toy that one day is fun to have and after that you can put it in the trash.
    you have to be sure you can handle it.
    it make's 2 people to make a child, and also 2 people to rais it.
    my mom did it al by her self she left my dad when i was 5.
    my dad has 2 younger children with a new wife and i get really sad when i see him and those kids.
    i understand better now that i really missed a dad in my life when i was growing up.

  6. #6
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    Juno you've made such a very valid point in that men are very important in this equation. Maybe one day you can find one who gives you what you always missed through giving it to your kids. Good luck. You deserve a happy marriage and a nice family with an attitude like that. These things are very simple to achieve and maintain but they require maturity and discipline and commitment from both sides. Maybe the people who know what it's like not to have families will appreciate them when they do. I lost my mother at eight and had a series of step families that were a disaster. I know how you feel. Life can be really crap but only until you can get control of it, then you can get a chance to make the decisions, but only if your partner is there with you. If not the whole thing repeats itself through the kids. People don't choose carefuly enough.

  7. #7
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    This is a subject very close to me. I was adopted as a baby to 2 wonderful, loving parents. My birth mother was 15 when she had me and my birth father was only 17. I see her as a very strong individual, even though I have never met her. I owe her so much for the gift of life that she gave me. So, I take that and try to live out my life as best as I can to thank her for the opportunity.

    On this subject, I do feel that it is a personal one. Extenuating circumstances such as if there is something major wrong w/the baby or if demise to 1 or both mother and baby are involved, then abortion may need to be indicated. I, however, do not condone abortion as a means of birth control. Especially nowadays with everything on the market. Besides, we need to PROCREATE(but in saying that, I know only the idiots of the world will comply )!

    Being a parent is the most wonderful, tiring, difficult, rewarding job I could have ever asked for. When my daughter smiles at me, it melts me. When she hugs me, I get choked up. There is NO feeling like it in the world.
    "I can stop trying to discover shortcuts or easy answers to why I feel dissatisfied at times. I am the only one who can make changes, right here and now."
    Dr William Brown

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    No matter what you say, abortion is a murder (even Romans gave the child to born a statute, it's not a new thing : it's alive); if it's too hard to use condom, you ladies keep your legs crossed and you guys keep your wienner closed. If pregnancy happens, be consequent.

    Women who abort contibute to the genocide of their people. Abortion add to low birthrate are leading to the extinction of European peoples. It is being a massive collective suicide and I'm not too fond of people who promote abortion, try to justify it and give credit to such arguments (jews -abortion laws here were voted thanks to a feminist jewess-, hardcore feminists, lefties, liberals, etc.)... They are all enemies of my kin, if you side with them, well...

    In our current situation I still don't understand how can some people of our side (supposedly) approve it; life is a serious matter, it's no game. We are bound to disappear if nothing happens and some people still feed the propaganda of our butchers, the ones who are killing our races... There's something wrong with such people...

    I'd only advise abortion in case of genetic diseases (such a burden for both parents and Society) or rape (for all I know, cases of pregnancy after a rape are extremly rare, though).

    Abortion is a personal matter and so neither moral nor amoral
    Bloody lefty feminist argument.

    No, it's not a personal matter; we all have duty towards our community, our people, our nation and mothers have duty towards the child they are expecting (provided it is healthy). There is nothing personal in this matter, for when you abort you harm people and Society.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

    « -Oh my God, but you're a neo-nazi?!...
    -But why neo? »

  9. #9
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    First, abortion isn't the problem. As much as one would like to blame some external or inanimate factor for the demise of our people, unfortunately they are really wading in a bog of symptoms while searching for that grove which bears the cause itself. I find it rather dubious to think that by allowing every child conceived by random after-party "adventures" we would be somehow better off, as we would have more children then. Yes, perhaps more, but do we want more broken people; people without a sufficient, loving family to bring them up? On the other hand, by banning abortion - except in cases of genetical defects etc., of course - the society may influence the attitudes of people and veer them from being so overtly individualistic pleasure slaves (although still resulting in more unwanted and accidental babies at least for some time: it's unavoidable considering the attitudes of contemporary times). Anyway, I think the question of abortion requires striking at the heart of the contemporary decadence: the individualist soul that has long since separated itself from its surroundings to escape into its own private ego-worship. More people won't magically make that ugly reality go away.

    As for human rights, well... Frankly, I find that concept to be just another facet of Christianity, which deems everyone equal and while it cannot actualize that dream, it hands us equal rights so that we are the same in a metaphysical sense. Thus, the concept of human rights is a linear truth, apparently directly colliding with reality, and if being sincere with your perceptions of the external world is the aim, it would be quite foolish to constantly bang one's head on the wall all the time, no?

    All in all, I propose a holistic view on the modern society instead of clinging on token issues: view abortion as a tool instead of some decisive moral issue of utmost importance that alone bears the future upon its shoulders.

  10. #10
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    Agree with Frostwood. Thank you Frostwood for existing. :peck:

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