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Thread: Origins of the Vinland Flag?

  1. #11
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    Sigrid... I, as always, enjoy your lengthy posts and agree with most of what you say, and respect those parts I disagree with. I shall do my utmost to keep my fascination for Nazism et al. in line so I won't offend you, which is the last thing I'd want.

  2. #12
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    And I'll try not to make such lengthy posts. Ye gods, but I can blab. I am the nationalist movement's worst nightmare. Really, it's official. I've been making people exhausted for several years. I know because they have said so in desperation many times. Sorry. It's my academic training mixed with my gender, lol. All that forcing you to substantiate your own claptrap for all those years has made me worse than I am by nature.

  3. #13
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    hahahah, no, not at all... I enjoy reading them!

  4. #14
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    Sigrid,

    Thank you for posting a more understandable explaination of what you meant and mean. I agree with you on allot of views when it comes to politics, I hate politics too!

    What gripes me allot is just the Folk in our Faith that always use the neo-Nazi stuff to describe a virus within our Faith, but rarely describe the UniPagans (HAH, HAF, Unversalists, and other homo-rainbow fluffy pagans) as being the virus too; why?

    IMO, the Nazi era of Deutschland was confusing, glorious, corrupt, and smart, sort of like what the US is today. It is undeniable that people died in the hands of the Nazis in many ways, just like the what the US is doing today, right? So there is no big difference when a country has the power, this is politics, and a power hungry machine. But why does the majority of our Folk use the Nazis as the sole vehicle to describe a virus when the Maoists and Russians killed more people seprately than the Nazis? I have a close answer, and that is, the Jews did a good job with their propaganda to kill the pride and turn hatred inward and to profit from it.

    What we need to do as a Folkish Faith is to learn from our ancestors mistakes, not bash the dead for what they did and for what they knew at the time (thats not respectful). We need to live out of the horrific past (only learn from it), live the present, and look forward to the future. We need to show that our minds are free from foreign sorrows, and that our minds are free to grow.

    I didnt mean to create this post a Nazi debating post.

    Also, I would like to mention to others, there is a Folk-soul that others ignore and recognize, the study of this might explain a few answers about us from the past to the future.

  5. #15
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    Here is a link to some Vinland flag variants:

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

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    Klokkwerx, this is true about the sole obsession with Nazism and a neglect to mention the Judaeo-Christian and liberal views of the rainbow pagans. I don't see it as solely Jewish in orientation. I think the Jews have only one interest in the world, themselves. So they never stop trying to make everyone look to racism because they are only interested in how racism once affected them and how they can use it now to wangle another few years as an occupying force in Palestine and in American politics. It's no use people denying this, I think it is as obvious as the proverbial wart on the witch's nose.

    However, I am after the European rainbow liberals myself as I blame them entirely for what has happened. And I blame that on the evolution of Christian humanism into a mad weak political ideology with a terrible fascist left wing basis in draconian legislation and moral prescriptiveness. Everyone in the west is now too scared to walk on the pavement of life in case they squash an ant. If they do it will set in motion a lengthy personal court case where they will whip themselves for neglect to notice the ant and take his rights into consideration. They will offer to twin themselves with the ant's colony and spend the rest of their lives trying to make up for an imagined crime. The ants, who care nothing for the squashing of one of their millions of comrades in the great Ant Heap of their militarized and utterly fascist insectile world will think "what fools these people are" and begin to exploit them. That is after all what ants do. So it isn't the ants' fault it is the liberal's fault. The ant is being a normal animal and the liberal is trying to turn himself into a god. Because he is not one and can never hope to be one he will always only be a fool. The ants are right and they will devour his corpse when he dies because that is what ants do.

    I used to have a Heathens Against Hate image on my website a while ago because I couldn't stand the Tom Metzgers and the Skinheads and the neo Nazi racists any more. They were turning me from my own faith because that is all you ever saw of it. Boots in your face and German tanks in your face and guns in your face all the way in so-called nationalism. And Odin and Thor and Tyr and the runes, Valhalla and the Einheriar insulted and misrepresented wherever you went. Mad, mad folk with crazy ideas and a hatred for our own people's science and technology, a hatred for civilization that put them in the same camp as the conspiracy theorists and the camps of both the far left and the fundamentalists. Many people left us then. They were repelled by all this violent and ignorant thuggishness. And it chased all the women away. Unless you like the kind that kicks heads and looks like it drives a bulldozer for a living.

    National Socialism and Nationalism are two different political ideologies. I am not a socialist so I am a Nationalist. As soon as I see jackboots and armies I'm gone. I do not support domination of others and that includes one's own. The Americans are not Nazis they are an Empire, the last outpost of Christendom, and like all Christian Empires they are obsessed with Israel because they are adopted Jews into the children of Israel. Until this stops they will continue to turn the world against their crusading. The other problem is the growing horde of atheists who are almost all liberals. They have managed to chuck the religious thing but they cannot get rid of Christendom's legacy in a missionary zeal to convert everyone, this time to liberal humanism and globalisation.

    Nationalism is full of these religious nuts and because some nationalists have decided to wage war against Islam they have also unwisely decided to take up the fallen torch of Christendom and relight it. Bad move in my opinion. You can fight a threat without dredging up unsuccessful attempts to fight it from history. Nazism and Christianity are two unsuccessful attempts to fight something. So what we need today is evolution of ideology and a new way of achieving self -determination.

    I used to support the Midnottsol Kindred, who were folkish. Then they became the Midnottsol Regin and began to go a little AWOL on the folkish thing. When they became Northvegr I did my best but eventually had to stop supporting them as their leaders have become insufferable to almost everyone I know. They are rude, dictatorial and plain Judaeo-Christian in their worldview. I am furious with them for promoting our folk faith as a universal creed and for condemning out of hand all American Asatruar (except themselves, of course). If you want to please Auntie Alfta you have to kneel before this great law giver and accept that you will "graft " all others who come to our faith onto your group or she will pour acid on you. I have seen complaints across the net from people who haven't even been discussing folkish matters and have been given the acid treatment. They have all withdrawn, scorched and angry and disappointed that teachers of a creed would be so Christian in demanding universal acceptance of what Northvegr happen to think is the Heathen way. In a way they are as nazi as the Nazis they say they hate. One can have left wing as well as right wing fascism.

    Also, this luvvie huggy attitude is causing people to take up Heathenism and reform it into a generalised pagan path. I believe that they hate Christianity so much they are willing to entertain anyone who drubs it. This is mindless in the long run and will kill any revival of any folk. Universalism will make of all the revived tribal creeds a soup of people and beliefs. Wicca has already done this so why do these people not join Wicca, the Bahai, charismatic Christianity or Islam? Why must they all suddenly be European pagans? I don't want to be a Pygmy, why do all these people want to be Germanic all of a sudden? They have hated us for centuries. Suddenly they must all dye their hair blond and join us. :screwy

    I'll tell you why they are so keen. It's the runes and the "magic" and the "shamanism" and all that rubbish (and it is rubbish) that is put out about paganism today. Fleeing Christianity (a religion filled with magic) they want something alien and exotic and rebellious to the establishment so they decide from all corners of the earth and all colours of humanity that Heathenism is for them. And our faithless fascist liberal humanist brethren can't wait to sell our ancestral heritage to anyone who has their eye on it, whether we like it or not. They simply call us racists and nazis and continue to peddle our faith to anyone who wants to buy a sack full of stones with funny signs on them and start playing fortune teller and "shaman".

    This is off topic,:outch: but as we are discussing flags and the adoption of various ideas by various groups who want to represent what is Heathen I think maybe it should be said.

    If we are not careful we shall soon have the very unpleasant and highly offensive situation of a person from some other race and culture instructing us in the ways of our own. An anointed and accepted bona fide "Heathen", baptised by the likes of the rainbow pagan community who can't seem to get rid of the desire to have an enemy to hate and look down on and a beggar to clothe and feed and convert. One day we, the real Heathen folk, will look up and see an alien army approaching our camp bearing the cross of Odin and we shall be attacked by an adopted people who will call us scum and challenge us in the name of our very own gods. Urging them on will be those liberals who sold our culture to their anti-Christian friends. They will be carrying the bags and beating the drums for their new masters. I'm not joking, I'm uttering a warning. I am, after all, a real Heathen. I didn't go to a rainbow shaman school run by someone called Solly Blingowitz.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigrid
    Why must they all suddenly be European pagans? I don't want to be a Pygmy, why do all these people want to be Germanic all of a sudden? They have hated us for centuries. Suddenly they must all dye their hair blond and join us. :screwy
    This is what I have never understood either. And what I understand even less are those Germanic that support Universialism.
    I have never understood the concept of Universialist Ásatrú. Our faith is one, where the honoring of your ancestors is of prime importance. So why would a Nigerian want to honor ancestors that are not his own?
    And then they also think that inbreeding is fine, etc etc. Just make it rainbow, and an umbrella faith! Honor bloody ancestors, talk about you being reborn into your own family line, and then, as McNallen in good right critisized, you are reborn into a Persian princess - what's the point of that? :screwy
    And I can never undestand those either that think that Germanic is congruent with blonde hair and blue eyes. I have been criticized oft enough by those unenglightened why I am not Norwegian and have blonde hair and blue eyes and follow Odinism. OK, let's see...my brother has blonde hair and blue eyes, but I have brown hair with a reddish hint and green eyes. My mom has blonde hair and blue eyes, but my uncle has red hair and green eyes. Are me and my brother, or my mom and my uncle now of a different race?

    As regards our folkway, I hate to see it perverted by both extremes, by those that are NS and those that are Unis. I have no problem with National Socialists, nor with National Socialists that are Heathens, but please don't be a "NS Heathen", it does not exist, it's not the case that "the Führer did Odin's work 100%., and Wotan does not stand for Will Of The Aryan Nation. Full stop.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  8. #18
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    I have Norwegian uncles with dark brown hair and blue eyes. Others are fair and blue eyes and I was blond when young and then went sort of honey blondish brown with red strands and am now going silvery slowly as you can imagine. :eek I think I shall be blond again some day!

    The "Aryan idea" is off its head and must be dumped. Today "Aryans" are Persians from Iran who practise Zoroastrianism. A branch of our once upon a time folk of the Indo-European family. As you said somewhere else, Sig, including the Brahmin.

  9. #19
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    Well said Sigrid!
    Now you are understood better in my eyes. I also agree with allot of your views.

    We should really put out there the definition of what being a Folkish Heathen is, I know there is a few groups that do that, but what of making a banner exchange that will define the meaning?

    Also, back to the orginal topic, what you think of the link I posted on the Vinland Flag variants?

  10. #20
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    klokkwerx, I know those flags . I have trouble with anything in red, black and white and anything with an overt so-called "Celtic cross" on it because it looks nazi and is being used by nazi groups in place of the nazi swastika. This is very problematic. I know the Indo-European colours are red, white and black but I feel that this is not going to help us. If you try and look at things from the view of people "out there" who need to be brought "in here" the effect is often for them quite scary. And the effect of these things has by no means worn off or been redefined and separated.

    I used to promote the renewal of the swastika on my site. I did a whole lot of swasi graphics, even animated a fireball one and bejewelled them and cartooned them and so forth. But people still get nervous about you when they see this thing.

    As an English patriot I fly the white dragon flag in support of those others who use it as a recognition symbol among us. I believe very strongly that that Cross of St George contraption does not represent us at all.

    A one for all Heathen flag that can be used worldwide as well as individual Kindred or group flags might be an idea. That might be more unifying in general, but if one happens it will have to be without the old cross effect. And it would have to try and not have all three colours at once. We have the hurdle of the neo nazis to overcome as they have already used the suncross and the real nazis have used the three colours.

    A shield divided into four or eight might work on a flag as this is still a suncross but it represents Odin's battle shield and our basic solar consciousness. It could be designed so it looks very rich and could have knot work (which is not Celtic) or maybe intertwined animal designs which are Viking. The sun or eagle on a shield is a very powerful symbol. We can't use Othala rune because the nazis used that and the same goes for Sowulo.

    Personally I think black and green and red and gold (or yellow), silver, blue, etc are very evocative colours to work with in heraldry and of course white. It depends on how well the design can be constructed and whether a consensus can determine that lots of people like it, feel attached to it viscerally and would hold it up with honour.

    It's not an easy task. They will fight about it. But if it's very attractive and appealing someone may manage it and almost everyone may agree to go for it.

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