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Thread: German Invasion of Denmark, Holland, etc.?

  1. #11
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    Originally posted by NordischesBlutundEhre
    Examples please? x_nono

    The German Ambassador in the Soviet Union (Schulenburg) to the German Foreign Office

    Telegram

    VERY URGENT
    Moscow, October 3, 1939-7:04 p. m.
    Received October 3, 1939-11:10 p. m.
    STRICTLY SECRET

    No. 463 of October 3
    Molotov summoned me to his office at 2 p. m. today, in order to communicate to me the following:

    The Soviet Government would tell the Lithuanian Foreign Minister, who arrives today, that, within the framework of an amicable settlement of mutual relations (probably similar to the one with Estonia), the Soviet Government was willing to cede the city of Vilna and its environs to Lithuania, while at the same time the Soviet Government would indicate to Lithuania that it must cede the well-known portion of its territory to Germany. Molotov inquired what formal procedure we had in mind for carrying this out. His idea was the simultaneous signing of a Soviet-Lithuanian protocol on Vilna and a German-Lithuanian protocol on the Lithuanian area to be ceded to us.

    I replied that this suggestion did not appeal to me. It seemed to me more logical that the Soviet Government should exchange Vilna for the strip to be ceded to us and then hand this strip over to us. Molotov did not seem quite in accord with my proposal but was willing to let me ask for the viewpoint of my Government and give him a reply by tomorrow noon.

    Molotov's suggestion seems to me harmful, as in the eyes of the world it would make us appear as "robbers" of Lithuanian territory, while the Soviet Government figures as the donor. As I see it, only my suggestion enters into consideration at all. However, I would ask you to consider whether it might not be advisable for us, by a separate secret German-Soviet protocol, to forego the cession of the Lithuanian strip of territory until the Soviet Union actually incorporates Lithuania, an idea on which, I believe, the arrangement concerning Lithuania was originally based.

    SCHULENBURG


    --------------------

    The Reich Foreign Minister to the German Ambassador in the Soviet Union, (Schulenburg)

    Telegram

    VERY URGENT
    BERLIN, October 5, 1939-3:43 a. m.
    Received Moscow, October 5, 1939-11:55 a. m.
    STRICTLY SECRET

    No. 497 of October 4
    Referring to today's telephonic communication from the Ambassador.

    Legation in Kowno is being instructed as follows:

    1) Solely for your personal information, I am apprising you of the following: At the time of the signing of the German-Russian Non-aggression Pact on August 23, a strictly secret delimitation of the respective spheres of influence in Eastern Europe was also undertaken. In accordance therewith, Lithuania was to belong to the German sphere of influence, while in the territory of the former Polish state, the so-called Four-River Line, Pissa-Narew-Vistula-San, was to constitute the border. Even then I demanded that the district of Vilna go to Lithuania, to which the Soviet Government consented. At the negotiations concerning the Boundary and Friendship Treaty on September 28, the settlement was amended to the extent that Lithuania, including the Vilna area, was included in the Russian sphere of influence, for which in turn, in the Polish area, the province of Lublin and large portions of the province of Warsaw, including the pocket of territory of Suwalki, fell within the German sphere of influence. Since, by the inclusion of the Suwalki tract in the German sphere of influence, a difficulty in drawing the border line resulted, we agreed that in case the Soviets should take special measures in Lithuania, a small strip of territory in the southwest of Lithuania, accurately marked on the map, should fall to Germany.

    2) Today Count von der Schulenburg reports that Molotov, contrary to our own intentions, notified the Lithuanian Foreign Minister last night of the confidential arrangement. Please now, on your part, inform the Lithuanian Government, orally and in strict confidence, of the matter, as follows:

    As early as at the signing of the German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact of August 23, in order to avoid complications in Eastern Europe, conversations were held between ourselves and the Soviet Government concerning the delimitation of German and Soviet spheres of influence. In these conversations I had recommended restoring the Vilna district to Lithuania, to which the Soviet Government gave me its consent. In the negotiations concerning the Boundary and Friendship Treaty of September 28, as is apparent from the German-Soviet boundary demarcation which was published, the pocket of territory of Suwalki jutting out between Germany and Lithuania had fallen to Germany. As this created an intricate and impractical boundary, I had reserved for Germany a border correction in this area, whereby a small strip of Lithuanian territory would fall to Germany. The reward of Vilna to Lithuania was maintained in these negotiations also. You are now authorized to make it known to the Lithuanian Government that the Reich Government does not consider the question of this border revision timely at this moment. We make the proviso, however, that the Lithuanian Government treat this matter as strictly confidential. End of instruction for Kowno.

    I request you to inform Herr Molotov of our communication to the Lithuanian Government. Further, please request of him, as already indicated in the preceding telegram, that the border strip of Lithuanian territory involved be left free in the event of a possible posting of Soviet troops in Lithuania and also that it be left to Germany to determine the date of the implementing of the agreement concerning the cession to Germany of the territory involved. Both of these points at issue should be set forth in a secret exchange of letters between yourself and Molotov.

    RIBBENTROP


    ----------------------

    Secret Supplementary Protocol

    The undersigned Plenipotentiaries declare the agreement of the Government of the German Reich and the Government of the U.S.S.R upon the following:

    The Secret Supplementary Protocol signed on August 23,1939, shall be amended in item to the effect that the territory of the Lithuanian State falls to the sphere of influence of the U.S.S.R., while, on the other hand, the province of Lublin and parts of the province of Warsaw fall to the sphere of influence of Germany (cf. the map attached to the Boundary and Friendship Treaty signed today). As soon as the Government of the U.S.S.R. shall take special measures on Lithuanian territory to protect its interests, the present German-Lithuanian border, for the purpose of a natural and simple boundary delineation, shall be rectified in such a way that the Lithuanian territory situated to the southwest of the line marked on the attached map should fall to Germany.

    Further it is declared that the economic agreements now in force between Germany and Lithuania shall not be affected by the measures of the Soviet Union referred to above.

    Moscow, September 28,1939.

    For the Government of the German Reich:
    J. RIBBENTROP

    By authority of the Government of the U.S.S.R.:
    W. MOLOTOV.


    --------------------------------------

    Memorandum by the State Secretary in the German Foreign Office (Weizsäcker)

    BERLIN, October 9, 1939.
    St. S. Nr. 793
    The Finnish Minister had announced a visit today to the Reich Foreign Minister. On the latter's instructions I received Herr Wuorimaa this afternoon. He presented the following facts:

    By virtue of the developments in the Baltic States, Russia had now penetrated so far into the Baltic that the balance of power there had been upset, and predominance threatened to pass to Russia. The lack of interest in this matter on the part of Germany had attracted attention in Finland, since there was reason there to assume that Russia intended to make demands on Finland identical with those made on the Baltic States.

    The Finnish Government had requested of Wuorimaa that he find out whether Germany remains indifferent to Russia's forward thrust in this direction and, should that not prove to be the case, to learn what stand Germany intends to take.

    The Minister added that, on her part, Finland had tried her best during the last few weeks to regulate her commercial relations with Germany and maintain them on a normal basis and to carry out the policy of neutrality desired by Germany also.

    I answered the Minister in the sense of the enclosed instructions to Helsinki. (1) Wuorimaa asked me to call him if we had anything further to add.

    From the words of the Minister it could be inferred that the Finnish Government was rather disturbed over the Russian demands and would not submit to oppression as did Estonia and Latvia.

    As regards this attitude on the part of the Minister I merely said that I hoped and wished that Finland might settle matters with Russia in a peaceful manner.

    WEIZSÄCKER


    --------------

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  3. #12
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    Post Re: Re: German invasion Denmark

    Originally posted by HELLSTAR
    What the hell are you talking about?
    HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... Germans liberating other Germans in Denmark???? is this another American history " expert "

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  5. #13
    Saxon88
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    Post German Occupation of Denmark

    Sorry boyz, I was goin from a book I had read a few years ago, many nations were liberated with that intention (Poland-to free Prussia, Czechoslovakia, Austria, etc.) or to add them into the German sphere of influence since they were becoming more and more politically shunned. I just looked it up on several history sites, not that I beleive everything I read on the net, but it seems to have been a forced move by Germany to counter the British in the nordic nations. The British mined the seas in the north and took 2/3 of the Denmark merchant ships to work for them as well as to counter British/French units in Norway. Technically Denmark was neutral but became occupied to counter British occupation. Here is some stuff I poached from the net, sorry again guys.

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    Goddamn it Voldemort don't you get tired of posting entire books for us to read? Jesus just make a point instead of this incessant quoting. Have you ever heard of a summary before? Or how about a paraphrase? And Ross did Poland start the conflict with Russia too? Stalin was being a dick on the eastern front and trying to take advantage of the situation convinced that Germany would never break the pact and start a two front war. I guess he was wrong and the result of his greedy jew tactics was operation Barbarossa.

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    Voldemort wrote well. People excuse the losers because they think everything would have been perfect, if only the other side won. It's rather comical, like wannabe minions of a supervillain, crying after the evil plot is foiled by the superhero. It's also ironic that a member with a supervillain name is being the most real here. "What if?!" Yeah, grandiose strategies tend to miss the mark and playing the victim equals what; crybullies claiming persecution?

    I've been a jury foreman and pressed for conviction when the defendant blamed the children of his victims, all the while begging for clemency on account of his own. It turned out that the court was sitting on a whole host of other charges unbeknownst to the jury, to avoid prejudicing us. If you compartmentalise everything, you totally lose perspective. You can lie so much, you believe yourself and seem so honest doing so. I have no interest legitimising any attempts at guiltmongering by those caught, or feeling sorry for them when they're only sorry they're caught abusing others. There's no moral high ground or innocence with dishonest exploitation, so let the dead stay buried in the beds they made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog View Post
    Now, the claim that Hitler started the conflicts with Britain, France, the USSR and the United States is ridiculously easy to refute. Now they are using 'smaller' arguments about Hitler invading less powerful countries needlessly. The examples cited are Greece, Holland, Denmark and Norway. Greece was a situation where he had to assist Mussolini after his bungling had gotten the Italian troops bogged down there.
    The invasion of Greece was to deny the allies a foothold on the continent from which they could start offensive operations in the Balkan and also airbases for the R.A.F. to bomb the Romanian oil fields with, things the Brits were working on - the Brits even wanted to link up with the Yugoslavian army. It also strengthened the German position in the Med (especially after the invasion of Crete) and hence the Afrikakorps. The conquest of Greece certainly removed any incentive the Turks may have had to join the allies too, with Axis troops now positioned on their doorstep.

    I am told that Holland was for all intents and purposes an Ally, and was funding the Allied war effort.
    The invasion of the Netherlands was purely for military-technical reasons (the need to spread out the German ground forces on a wide front just so they can deploy instead of clogging all the roads in the Ardennes) and as a form of operational deception: making the allies believe the main German blow would land in Flanders and the southern part of the Netherlands as opposed to the Ardennes. It ensured that all the (mobile) allied forces would be missing from the crucial battle occuring further south their eventual destruction in a pocket on the Franco-Belgian coastline. From a military perspective the Germans had no real other option for offensive action in the West, they had to attack through the Low Countries.

    I have also heard that Norway was allowing Britain to stage submarine bases in its fjords, again making it a de facto ally.
    The allies wanted to occupy Norway themselves and turn it into a British naval/air base, while cutting off iron ore shipping from Sweden to Germany. The Germans beat them to it. However, the Germans would not have moved into Norway if they had not been aware of British intentions to go there - the Brits had flagrantly violated Norwegian neutrality more than once during the start of the war, to the disadvantage of the Germans.

    Denmark, though, I am not sure about. Does anyone know why the Germans felt it necessary to invade/occupy these countries?
    Denmark was to secure their northern flank, it's a pre-emptive invasion to avoid the allies showing up there some time in the future and march straight on to Berlin. But also to better support the German invasion of Norway, which took place at the same time. The Germans needed an airbase in Northern Denmark to project air power deep into Norway.
    “As brothers and sisters we knew instinctively that if we were going to stand in darkness, best we stand in a darkness we had made ourselves.” - Douglas Coupland

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    The invasion of Greece was Mussolini trying to chase glory because he was jealous of Hitler.
    The whole thing was a moronic thing for him to do and it was a major reason that Hitler lost
    the war in the first plan. He didn't bother to even plan anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    The invasion of Greece was Mussolini trying to chase glory because he was jealous of Hitler.
    The whole thing was a moronic thing for him to do and it was a major reason that Hitler lost
    the war in the first plan. He didn't bother to even plan anything.
    What was wrong with Italy attempting Lebensraum in the same vein as Germany? As long as Italians didn't want to have a replay of the Teutoburger Wald, they could do their own thing and I don't think anyone really cared, whether Axis or Allies. The issue really touched on Ethiopia and Cape To Cairo, along with the Suez.

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