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Thread: Ideal Beauty - The Traits that Make the Perfect Woman

  1. #101
    Senior Member Med's Avatar
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    Post Re: Ideal Beauty

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Unfortunately, your "evidence" consists of:
    Unfortunately, your evidence consists of nothing.

    1. Listings of subjective, personal opinions and viewpoints on aestheticism.
    I've got a scientific study, an anthropologist and a professor. What have you got besides the big font?

    2. The provision of carefully selected photographs of people with unusual subracial tendencies, in a bid to present them as the norm or average.
    On the contrary, as models they represent the ideals of their subracial types.

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    Post Re: Ideal Beauty

    Quote Originally Posted by Medhammer
    I posted this here just the other day. The two theories are being proposed by Coon himself:

    "The Nordics are Mediterraneans who entered the Eurasiatic grasslands as farmers and herdsmen, possibly from Iran, at some time no earlier than 5000 BC, when the area bared by the melting of the Ural glaciation was still cloudy. They reached Central and Northwestern Europe during the third millennium BC. Here they came in at the tail end of the cloudy epoch. They may have obtained their genes for blondism of skin, hair, and eyes in either of two ways: by mixing with the aborigines, in the first instance; and by environmental selection in the second. Actually in all Nordic populations two things are true: at least a minority of the population although morphologically and metrically Nordic, preserves elements of brunet pigmentation; and any sorting between pigmental and other characters shows that extreme blondism and non-Nordic racial characters are associated. The Nordic is only secondarily and partially a blond race."

    (Coon, Garn and Birdsell. Races: A Study of the Problems of Race Formation in Man, 1950)
    You have provided an excellent example of Coon's political correctness in designating these related types (derived from the Galley Hill series) as "Mediterranean." Isn't it odd that Coon would call a migration originating in Iran or thereabouts "Mediterranean" instead of "Iranian" or "Aryan" (the name "Iran" derives from "Aryan")? Recall that Coon's The races of Europe was published in 1939, so in order to avoid the stigma of Hitler's National Socialism influenced anthropology, he had to coin another term to describe these non-Upper Paleolithic contributors to the living European races. He could have just as accurately called them "Nordics," but that would have defeated his purpose of distancing himself from the contemporary supremicists' doctrines. I have already provided the quotes that show Coon was able to distinguish this related group of Mediterraneans/Aryans between five groups: Megalithics, Mediterranean Proper, Danubian, Corded, and intermediate types.

    Nothing in this quote leads me to surmise that the depigmentation of Nordics occured after settlement in Scandinavia and, elsewhere, Coon writes that such depigmentation by "environmental selection" probably was present before the migration of the progenitors of the Nordics: the Danubian and Corded groups. Most important here is the debunking of some people's paradigm that Nordics are descended from the "Mediterraneans/Aryans" that settled in the Mediterranean Basin who then became blonde by adaptation.

    Whenever Coon writes about general Mediterraneans just substitute the word "Aryans" and you won't get confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medhammer
    'North-Atlantid' and 'Paleo-Atlantid' are terms that McCulloch (who's not an anthropologist) applies to British Mediterraneans to hide their ultimate origins in Southern Europe and make them purely 'Nordish'. I'm not really interested in "claiming" anyone, only in poking fun at his pseudo-scientific taxonomy.
    The brunettes of the British Isles are not Mediterraneans in your context and their "ultimate origins" are not in Southern Europe. See above. McCulloch has provided an alternative to the "Nordic/Alpine/Mediterranean" view of race in Europe because, due to the elevated prestige of Nordics given by extreme Nordicists and their bookends, reactionary Medicists, too many people balk at labelling all Northern European phenotypes as Nordic. Were the same standards applied to Alpines and Mediterraneans, scrutiny would show a similar lack of cohesive racial qualities. The Nordish concept is just as valid, or invalid, as the Mediterranean concept. I see the facility of the Nordish concept and it's valid to me as a preservation strategy.

    Finally, the composite picture you posted as the subject of this thread represents an average of the world's conception of beauty. Most people are not going to be happy with it. A mentally healthy black African or East Asian is not going to prefer the woman depicted in the composite to a beauty of their own race, and she doesn't represent the Nordish ideal, obviously.
    Last edited by Louky; Thursday, April 29th, 2004 at 02:19 PM.
    The dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa

  3. #103
    Senior Member Med's Avatar
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    Post Re: Ideal Beauty

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    You have provided an excellent example of Coon's political correctness in designating these related types (derived from the Galley Hill series) as "Mediterranean." Isn't it odd that Coon would call a migration originating in Iran or thereabouts "Mediterranean" instead of "Iranian" or "Aryan" (the name "Iran" derives from "Aryan")? ... Nothing in this quote leads me to surmise that the depigmentation of Nordics occured after settlement in Scandinavia and, elsewhere, Coon writes that such depigmentation by "environmental selection" probably was present before the migration of the progenitors of the Nordics
    The reason Coon doesn't use 'Aryan' is because it isn't an anthropological term. It's an ethnic/linguistic term. It has nothing to do with 'political correctness', which is anachronistic in this context. You're so hung up on Coon's use of terminology that you ignore his findings. He observed that blondism in Northern Europe correlates with non-Nordic traits, while Nordics, in addition to being skeletally Mediterranean, often retain brunet pigmentation. This clearly suggests the processes of intermixture and adaptation that have been proposed. Your 'blond Aryans from Iran' theory is just Hitlerian fantasy.

    The brunettes of the British Isles are not Mediterraneans in your context and their "ultimate origins" are not in Southern Europe.
    Of course they are. They come from the Iberian peninsula. Coon noticed this

    "Among individual Welshmen it is possible to pick out individuals of a smaller Mediterranean type, similar to that of Spain and Portugal...."

    http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/chapter-X3.htm

    and it's been confirmed by modern genetic research

    Genes link Celts to Basques

    "The Welsh and Irish Celts have been found to be the genetic blood-brothers of Basques, scientists have revealed. ... [Geneticists] looked at Y-chromosomes, passed from father to son, of Celtic and Norwegian populations. They found them to be quite different. ... 'On the Y-chromosome the Celtic populations turn out to be statistically indistinguishable from the Basques'...."


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1256894.stm

    A mentally healthy black African or East Asian is not going to prefer the woman depicted in the composite to a beauty of their own race, and she doesn't represent the Nordish ideal, obviously.
    But she evidently represents the German ideal (since that's where the study was conducted) and, by extrapolation, the Caucasoid ideal.

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    Post Re: Ideal Beauty

    Quote Originally Posted by rusalka
    While we're at it, here's a page about well known Welsh talents or important people, all with their photographs, for a broader opinion. One of my favorite footballers, the Welsh Wizard Giggsey is there too, of course.

    http://www.cawlcymru.co.uk/famous1.htm
    Ryan Giggs is actually partly negroid.

    His father is from Sierra Leone (probably half-caste), and even states that "half of my family is black". Giggs is his mother's name, Wilson is his father's name.

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    Re: Ideal Beauty

    Let us assume Hallstatt is the same as Göta type. McCulloch's number is too high though. 20-25 % of the Swedish population is a more reasonable number.

    A Swedish Göta from southern Sweden:



    Many people on Skadi have no clue how Göta people look like.

    There are also many Danes of the same type.

    The whole of Southeastern Norway and Southwestern Sweden is predominantly Göta. This is something I know and not just something I read in some old anthropology book. It is a fact which even someone with an untrained eye may observe.

    There is of course variation. Göta and Trönder are just variations (rather unimportant and mostly seen in profile of the face) of Scando-Nordid.

    Quote Originally Posted by cruhmann
    and a few small areas in Sweden and Norway where the Hallstatt or true Nordic is relatively unmixed.

  6. #106
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    Sv: Ideal Beauty

    I actually agree with the author of this thread. I'm no expert at subraces but I have a good intuitive feeling for it. I came to the conclusion long ago that the most beautiful nordic individuals must have gotten their harmonious looks from the mediterranean races.

    I must add that each and every male nordic racialist, who refuse to admit the positive aspects of interbreeding between meds and nordics, I have ever met have been uglier than a barn door with assymetrical and disturbing features.

    However, I think lack of harmony in the facial features is extremely common in for example parts of Italy. To me, many italians are characterized by their complete lack of harmony. I always considered both the race the experts on this forum refers to as "gracile mediterranid" and italians in general as quite poor looking. On the other hand, I consider the robust iberian races to be some of the most beautiful in the world. The most good looking swedes, in my oppinion, have facial features almost identical to certain types of "semi-robust" meds found in Spain. They look "cute" more than beautiful, really, but to me that is more harmonious and beautiful than long, slender and narrow shapes.

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    Re: Ideal Beauty

    The author of the thread starts of with the fallacy that beauty is universal. Beauty is not universal. Human beings of any society demonstrate a measurable tendency to find the average face the most attractive. If you took ideal Mediterranean women and stuck them in China (officially touted as an anti-racist nation) the majorty of Chinese men would still prefer Chinese women, regardless of how symmetrical or "ideal" the Mediterranean women were. Only a minority of people are attracted to the exotic and unfamiliar in human beings, if a majority were attracted to the exotic, human beings wouldn't have maintained such distinct racial formations worldwide for tens of thousands of years. It shouldn't be confused with conscious racialism or xenophobia, its merely psychological issue of people finding comfort in the familar.

    Edit: I also fail to see how Charlize Theron is in any way shape or form "Medish."

  8. #108
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    Re: Ideal Beauty

    if a majority were attracted to the exotic, human beings wouldn't have maintained such distinct racial formations worldwide for tens of thousands of years.
    Human beings arguably only maintained such distinct racial uniqueness worldwide due to demographic isolation. I fully agree with what you say about beauty not being universal though.


    As for the main topic of this thread (I really only read the first 2 and the last few posts), I'm not even going to get into some sot of ridiculous competition over "which sub-race is better looking, or has better looking women...", because I couldn't give a shit. I love my people regardless of whether or not they're deemed the best looking. I don't think racial preservation is about only preserving the best looking sub-races now is it?? LOL And anyway, I firmly believe that there are beautiful, ugly and everything in between members of every sub-race (I think we all know that right?).... but what I find interesting is the defensiveness and pride that males seem to display in regards to "their" women! I've noticed it quite a bit on these racial forums. You'd think that being dominated by men, that there would be arguments about which sub-race has the most beautiful men or something.... I couldn't imagine women ever getting so defensive over "their" men.

    Now this leads me to believe that men feel a much stronger sense of "ownership" and "protectiveness" of their women than women do for their men. And perhaps men feel that their women's beauty, or lack of, is a reflection of themselves somehow. I honestly couldn't care less if someone said that all Aussie men were ugly pricks. I'd probably just laugh and agree to be honest!! LOL So I wonder if this proposed sense of "ownership" and defensiveness of women of their own kind would lead men to be less likely to race (or sub-race) mix??

    And I wonder if there would be some kind of biological basis/reason for it?

    What do you think?

  9. #109
    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal Beauty

    i dont see how being closer in skin tone to a black person makes you more attractive.

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