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Thread: Christian Atrocities: Three Centuries of Heathen Persecution

  1. #61
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    I personally am a big beleive that winners own their defeats, while losers place the blame on others. As such, while I had my times of cussing-out Christianity as much as the next heathen, I ultimately had to see things for what they were and are.

    Some of the things that I noticed were ...

    Longer before Christianity came along urban Romans used the term pagan much as we today use the words hick or redneck, ie. they used it as a slur. This of course doesn't absolve Christianity of the prejudice it inheritted, but it does illustrate that Christianity wasn't the author of contempt for the pagan.

    And more importantly, at the onset of the "Age of Conversion" (of the Germanic peoples), the Germanic peoples were THE force in the Western world. No one could make ANY of us do ANYTHING we didn't want; except for maybe another of us. In the end, Germanicism fell to Germanic peoples.

    And as a Germanic "heathen" I am, these days, far less concerernd with what the Hell was up with Chrisitnaity, and ALOT more concerend with what was up with us?

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamey Martin View Post
    Longer before Christianity came along urban Romans used the term pagan much as we today use the words hick or redneck, ie. they used it as a slur. This of course doesn't absolve Christianity of the prejudice it inheritted, but it does illustrate that Christianity wasn't the author of contempt for the pagan.
    That's all well and good, but you seem to be implying that the Roman Leaders were some other religion, and thus were discriminating against their own 'pagans'? The point would be that the term 'pagan' originally meant something else than a non-Christian/Polytheist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamey Martin View Post
    And more importantly, at the onset of the "Age of Conversion" (of the Germanic peoples), the Germanic peoples were THE force in the Western world. No one could make ANY of us do ANYTHING we didn't want; except for maybe another of us. In the end, Germanicism fell to Germanic peoples.
    Not really... The Germanic invaders were not 'the force', and it is certainly a mistake to think that they were imposing Germandom on their Roman subjects. Have you heard the saying Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit 'Captive Greece captured her rude conqueror'? Yes, well the next true version would be Roma capta ferum victorem cepit The Goths, Franks, Lombards, etc, did everything they could to preserve Rome and its institutions. If no one could force us to do anything than why were we serving in the Roman Armies? Why were our kingdoms legitimised with the term 'Roman', eg, the 'Holy Roman Empire', and Charlemagne bearing the title 'Augustus' and 'King of the Romans'.

    C'mon, we weren't Huns

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    Well, you tell me, who was forcing the Franks or the Goths? Who had the power? An empire that had crumbled under it's own excessive girth? And spawned umpteen numbers of urban salvation cults in a vain attempt to address it's it's ever growing socio-cultural problems? Who's own citizen couldn't be bothered to man it's own armies?

    The Franks, Goths, etc. made a CHOICE.

    We migth not like that choice, but it was a choice.

    And yes, pagan doesn't mean polytheist. It means the same as the Germanic term heathen ... countrydweller; where the ethnocentric beliefs held out the longest.

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    Christians pesecute pagans and heathens, true.

    Pagans and heathens persecute Christians- true, although this is exaggerated to heroic proportions by the copyists of the Church, especially during the Roman period.

    Pagans and heathens persecute each other- true, although not in an ideological fashion as such. For example, the Romans made it a habit to persecute cults that they disapproved of (Bacchus-worshippers).

    Christians persecute each other, true enough; Christian history is rife with supposed heresy running amok all over the place.

    Christianity inherited all of the intolerance of its Jewish parent-religion.

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    Charlemagne had Jewish banksters at His court obviously in high position, rumor has it that he was a half Jew, consequently he promoted a half Jewish and a half heathen religion.

    Jewish interest was and still is to destroy nations and erect a Jewish dominance over the world as predicted in their ancient writing.

    hitler recognized that germanics are naiv and not up to the trickery of Jews.

    finally he succumbed to them too.

    The point is awakening of our people with any method suitable, that will giveusour freedoms and powers back.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    The naivety is that they belief in truth and think everyone else does so too.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamey Martin View Post
    Well, you tell me, who was forcing the Franks or the Goths? Who had the power? An empire that had crumbled under it's own excessive girth? And spawned umpteen numbers of urban salvation cults in a vain attempt to address it's it's ever growing socio-cultural problems? Who's own citizen couldn't be bothered to man it's own armies?

    The Franks, Goths, etc. made a CHOICE.

    We migth not like that choice, but it was a choice.
    Indeed it was a choice. But certainly was not an even one. Christianity was equated with civilisation and enlightenment. And naturally many of the Germanic chiefs decided to come out of obscurity, into Christianity.

    Almost every group of Germanic invaders into Roman lands ended up becoming Romance, the Goths, the Franks, the Lombards etc. All they did was continue Rome and its religion.

    The best comparison is how Norway was christianised 700-600 years later. All the Church did was give out a free white cloth to every new baptised person. That's the only thing that influenced the change of faith really.

    http://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/en/...es-to-denmark/
    There is a story concerning a Viking representative to the Frankish court who let himself be baptised. Many people were to be baptised that day and when it came to his turn there was no more white cloth. He was, therefore, given something much poorer and coarser. He protested vociferously – he had now been baptised 20 times, and each time he had been given a fine set of white clothes! Who were these misers who baptised him now?
    Becoming Christian in those days is like belonging to EU, in a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Becoming Christian in those days is like belonging to EU, in a way.
    I think that about sums it up the best right there. Conversion to Christianity equalled inclusion within Rome's international trade network; which along with the usual alliance gave a king an advantage over rivals amongst his neighbouring Germanic kings. And as above, so below, as kings dangled privilege for those of his tribe who followed him into the new faith. The conversion of Kent is a text book example of what the REAL lure of Christianity was. And "the Pope" actually comes right out and explicitly states to his missionaries amongst the Anglo-Saxons and Continental Germanics to accomodate the native faith as much as possible, to make Christianity over into their image just to seal the deal.

    In fact, so half-assed was the conversion of our folk -- which half-assed as it was still took over 600 years from start to finish -- that early Protestent surveys noted entire backwater sections of Germany still given over to a Santeria-like fusion between native folk custom and Christianity.

    The question has in fact long been who converted who, and to what? Asked by our Christian ancestors themselves long before modern heathens ever started popping up.

    Germania capta ferum victorem cepit?

    But even before it was the lure of wealth, it was the fear and greed stirring in our own hearts. And the sad thing is, is once that ball starts rolling, even good folk will join in the rat race out of the same ol same ol sense of civic responsiblity, ie. you CAN'T let the ass-kissers take over.

    But as the rune poem states, "Wealth ... the strife amongst kin".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Becoming Christian in those days is like belonging to EU, in a way.
    This is true. I've read of anecdotes of heathen husbands converting to Christianity to be able to marry into a Christianized family (or often the Christian wife convinces the heathen husband to marry after wedlock). It's a societal as well as a religious acceptance, which often takes places today when, say, an Orthodox practitioner converts to Catholicism to marry a Catholic spouse.

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