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Thread: Laws Don't Mean Anything

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    Post Laws Don't Mean Anything

    Friends often want to debate the legality of something with me. They sometimes mention the Income Tax as being illegal under the US Constitution. Or maybe it is the right to "own guns". Or maybe it is the right to illegal search.

    All this doesn't matter. Laws don't matter. All governments are in power because they control the army. In short, they control the guns. If you do something they don't like, they will come after you. Their ultimate sanction is death. Look at Iraq and this guy Al Sadr. What is he alleged to have done? He is alleged to have killed a rival cleric. How many clerics and other Iraqis have the Americans killed? Who issues an arrest warrent for them? Al Sadr opposes the Americans so the Americans drummed up a "charge" to have him arrested, "tried", and punished. If not, they will kill him, the ultimate sanction.

    It is the same everywhere if you don't pay your taxes. It is the same if you oppose the sitting government loudly and make good sense. They will come after you. Look at what happened to this guy Kelly in the UK.

    What if, as the US Constitution says, citizens have the right to bear arms (not guns for hunting). "Arms" means the same weaponry the army has. If each citizen had a medium range ballistic rocket tipped with a nuclear weapon, would there even be any talk of taxes, or illegal searches, or free speech? The answer is no. We would have all our rights. It is all about guns, not laws. In spite of all the platitudes, we are living in a might-makes-right world. Laws are for people without weapon's parity.

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    That's true in the final analysis, all legal directives are ultimately enforced by the threat or use of violence. Weber's definition of the state is of course the entity that has a 'monopoly on the legitimate use of force', and the late economist Mancur Olson described the state as a 'stationary bandit' which has learned it can forcibly extract more revenue from a captive, sedentary population than it could from a hit-and-run approach.

    On the other hand, changing the content of laws can have some significant influence. E.g. it is lax immigration laws that allow the US to be flooded by immigrants, the content of tax laws can have a significant influence on economic activity. I wouldn't say that laws don't mean anything (since they obviously do on a day-to-day level), but rather that we should never forget that state power (expressed through the law) ultimately rests on the state having a relatively greater capability (legitimate or otherwise) to inflict physical harm on the population than vice versa. Where it does not, anarchy and dark age conditions ensue.

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    Dr. Solar Wolff do you really want to live in a society where everyone reaches for his gun every time he feels hard done by? Maybe you already do?
    Last edited by Thulean Imperial Inquisitor; Wednesday, October 15th, 2008 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Size.

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    "Laws don't mean anything"

    This is true. Laws themselves are nothing without (proposed) consequences for breaking them combined with enforcement of said consquences if you do. Simple enough.

    But you suggest that whoever has the physical means, more so the weapons, get to make the laws and the rules and if we all had guns it would be equal. That's not true at all. Physical power is not the only form of power. The person with the most power is the one willing to pull the trigger. Likewise how those who are most likely to break the laws are those who don't care about the consequences. There are people who have commit crimes knowing that they could go to jail, or that they could get the death sentence, but this didn't stop them. Bigger and more effective weapons for the individual don't make a difference. Who would blow up everyone first? LOL

    Also, offense is not the only issue. What about defense? Political figures don't walk around without security because the average person could walk up and slit their throat if they so chose. Equal means of force does not make anything even. Just like with everything else, there is no equality. We would not all have our "rights".
    I envision a world where people dawning long white robes and elaborate headdresses run rampant down the streets, waving their arms in the air while screaming "we've gone mad, we've gone mad", like defrocked monks breaking the silence of ages past.

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by SudVolk
    Do you really want to live in a society where everyone reaches for his gun every time he feels hard done by ? Maybe you already do ?
    The jackbooted thugs at Homeland Security come with guns drawn.

    As far as immigration or drugs are concerned, there is nothing we have in the USA, nothing, that the government doesn't want us to have. In the case of illegal immigration and the drug trade, the first is sanctioned by the government and the second is run by the government.

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    An armed society is a POLITE society. I remain armed and ready.
    Some days you just want to holler your head off!!!

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by kinvolk
    An armed society is a POLITE society. I remain armed and ready.
    Yeah, look at Iraq. It's all "please and thank-you" at the moment.

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by SudVolk
    Yeah, look at Iraq. It's all "please and thank-you" at the moment.
    A WHITE armed society is polite . Iraquis are barbarians.[And not the good-germanic kind] Life is cheap in 3rd world countries, I know this. I lived in El Salvadore during its civil war. Also traveled extensively thru-out central america, South america and south-east asia
    Some days you just want to holler your head off!!!

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    Post Re: Laws Don't Mean Anything

    I was originally talking about the difference between what government says is its right to rule (rule by law) and the actual fact of the matter.

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    Arrow Laws are a tool to force opinions.

    Subjectivity is a dire strait that puts too many people under scrutiny by the law. I do not like the Neo-Con stance on attacking political dissidents. It has happened to me and my family is a mess right now for defying standards on a military base.

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