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Thread: New Feature: Ancestry As a Profile Option

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    Lightbulb New Feature: Ancestry As a Profile Option

    I'm placing this suggestion in a thread of its own since it doesn't seem to be getting much attention in the "Ethnicity/Meta-Ethnicity unknown" thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread between ancestry and ethnicity. An ethnic group is usually defined as a group of people who share common culture, language, religion and ancestry. I seriously doubt more than a handful of the folks here who list multiple ethnicities actually partake equally in the culture, language and religion of their respective ancestors. This is a particular problem for Americans especially as most of the ethnic groups that came here originally have since dissipated. For Americans, I think that in regards to ethnicity terms like Southerner or Yankee are more accurate than listing every nation that one's ancestors came from. Perhaps we could have separate fields for ethnicity and ancestry so to end this confusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    I would like to bump the highlighted proposal. It adds a useful layer of information without forcing members to denounce their loyalty to an ethnic group. The recently arrived South Africans, for example, would have the opportunity to list both 'Afrikaner' and their specific ancestry. European Germanics can also use this to indicate mixed ethnic (e.g. Anglo-Dutch) or even regional ancestry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    But this proposal is not intended to push a particular point of view and whoever rejects the idea of ethnic groups can leave it blank and opt for an ancestry list instead. There are, however, Southerners and Americans here who identify as such and still want to honor their ancestors. Why not give them the chance to do both?
    There have been some negative attitudes in the past expressed towards Colonials who have no choice but to use the ethnicity option as a means to list their ancestries while those who opt to use titles such as "American", "Yankee" etc. instead are looked upon as not being entirely clear. I certainly don't wish to offend anymore Europeans or look as though I'm trying to be something I'm not. Allowing the use of "ancestry" along with "ethnicity" would help ease a lot of tension on the matter and could really benefit Colonials especially considering we largely have become distinctive groups of peoples with cultures of our own.

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    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    I just wanted to chime in and say that I agree. This would certainly aid in clearing up a lot of the confusion and ceasing some of the arguments that we've seen of late.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
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    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    I guess it's an alright idea, but then I (and I would assume others) would have to decide what to put in that box. So even then you could have people not disclosing every little thing. But that's not just a "colonial" or American thing, even some Europeans would have to put more in the ancestry box.

    Would we really want Valkyrie, for instance, to put ethnicity: German, ancestry: Bavarian, Swedish. And I'm sure there might be even smaller German regional identities.

    And do I really have to put "Walloon" in my ancestry box just because Francis Cooke from the Mayflower married "Hester the Walloon"?

    Soten
    Ethnicity: American
    Ancestry: English, German (and Swiss), Irish, Lithuanian, Scottish, Dutch, French, Flemish, Walloon.
    ^HA!
    ...and there's no sense of proportions either.

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    Senior Member Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soten View Post
    Would we really want Valkyrie, for instance, to put ethnicity: German, ancestry: Bavarian, Swedish. And I'm sure there might be even smaller German regional identities.
    One would assume that Bavarian is an ethnicity.

    I'm not sure, perhaps I'm just taking the piss to some extent considering I've listed British Isles & Fred Dagg-ism as my ethnicity. I suppose it's about the same as Southerner or Yankee though.

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    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    One would assume that Bavarian is an ethnicity.
    So is Swedish and German.

    So what would someone like that put in the ethnicity box and what in the ancestry box? I think that Valkyrie has "German" listed as her ethnicity. But she has distant Swedish ancestry. So she would presumably put "Swedish" in her ancestry box, but then it looks like she has only Swedish ancestry so she would probably also put "Bavarian".

    Someone else has already suggested that Europeans put their regional allegiances in the ancestry boxes.

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    By the way, I don't think anyone was proposing that "ancestry" be a required field. Simply, those who wish to take advantage of it can do so if they please.

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    I think the idea of "Ancestry" as a profile option has something on it´s own. It´d be useful - especially for colonials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soten View Post
    Would we really want Valkyrie, for instance, to put ethnicity: German, ancestry: Bavarian, Swedish. And I'm sure there might be even smaller German regional identities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    One would assume that Bavarian is an ethnicity.
    Yes, this is an interesting issue. All Bavarians are ethnic Germans but many Bavarians (including me ) see themselves as descendants of their Bavarian ancestors primarly. The reason behind this is that Bavarians (among other German sub-groups) have an own kind of national/regional identity due to the history of the nation. Bavaria was a sovereign kingdom for centuries, for example.
    (Germany is, historically, an amalgamation of different German(ic) tribes. For example the Bavarian tribe, the Alemanic tribe, the Franconian tribe and so forth. )

    So my ancestry would be both Bavarian and, on a more general level, German. But Bavaria is also my state. Yet not everyone in the state of Bavaria is a member of the Bavarian tribe because we have a Swabian and some Franconian cantons within Bavaria, too.

    Hmm, I´d switch "ancestry" with "tribe". Then everything would be clear: My ethnicy is German and my tribe is the Bavarian one. I guess this would work with Colonials, too?

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    Hmm, I´d switch "ancestry" with "tribe". Then everything would be clear: My ethnicy is German and my tribe is the Bavarian one. I guess this would work with Colonials, too?
    I don't think it would work for Colonials. For them, ancestry would be English/German/Scottish/Irish and things like that. If they had to write their tribe, they'd have to split hairs further into Bavarian or Franconian or Saxon or so. Since most Colonials are a mix of multiple ethnicities and for some the profile field doesn't suffice, imagine how it would be like if they had to list all their tribes. I think "ancestry" is a better idea. Ancestry can be anything, ethnic or tribal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    I don't think it would work for Colonials. For them, ancestry would be English/German/Scottish/Irish and things like that.
    Yes, you´re right.

    "Tribe" would be a perfect option for Europeans but not for Colonials. And "Ancestry" makes not as much sense as "tribe" for Europeans, but it´d make sense for Colonials at least.
    I think "ancestry" is a better idea. Ancestry can be anything, ethnic or tribal.
    Maybe (if it´s technically possible) two options should be created: Ethnic ancestry (but where´s the clear difference to ethnicy?) and tribal ancestry?


    This is really a tricky question! *sighs*

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    Maybe (if it´s technically possible) two options should be created: Ethnic ancestry (but where´s the clear difference to ethnicy?) and tribal ancestry?
    Great idea, yes! Maybe it could be like "subrace" or "relationship status", optional, so only who wants to complete it does that? Then the Colonials could only complete "ethnic ancestry" while the Europeans could only complete "tribal ancestry".

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