View Poll Results: When does an ethnicity/ancestry become insignificant?

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  • It becomes insignificant at 1/4th ancestry or less

    8 9.20%
  • It becomes insignificant at 1/8th ancestry or less

    23 26.44%
  • It becomes insignificant at 1/16th ancestry or less

    13 14.94%
  • It becomes insignificant at 1/32nd ancestry or less

    14 16.09%
  • No percentage every becomes insignificant

    16 18.39%
  • Other

    13 14.94%
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Thread: Significance of Ethnicity?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Loyalist's Avatar
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    As it pertains to an one's ethnic identity, I believe it becomes insignificant when it's distant enough to pass out of memory. In most cases, an individual's grandparents have at least some knowledge of where their recent ancestors' roots lie, and what influences them certainly has great potential to emerge in immediate subsequent generations. If I have to put it into numerical terms, I would have to say that 1/32 or less becomes ethnically and culturally insignificant. For example, I have a Huguenot ancestor eight generations back, and a Norwegian twelve, but for me to identify as French or Norwegian would be ludicrous. All such identity, as both blood and culture are concerned, has been erased by inter-marriage with other peoples over literally hundreds of years, more so as these subsequent lines have remained mono-ethnic (Dutch and German, respectively). Summed up, if a person is of 93.75% Dutch and 6.25% French blood, any realistic claim to either the ethnic or cultural identity of the lesser group ceases to be. In turn, the children and grandchildren of this person become 50% Dutch, 25% Dutch, 12.5% Dutch, and so on as the cycle repeats itself. That's just one possibility, and this matter necessitates a case-by-case basis, so there's no accurate way to answer the poll with a specific number.

    One must also differentiate between where it becomes ethnically/culturally insignificant, and genetically insignificant. Contrary to what others are saying, genes can and are bred out, given enough generations. Go back far enough in any European family, from any region, and you'll inevitably come across the odd Hun, Mongol, Moor, Jew, and a host of other nomads that found their way into Europe over the centuries. But, hundreds and even thousands of years after being absorbed into otherwise-European bloodlines, the genes no longer surface; phenotypes are not mongrelized, and with that, any significance disappears.

    Personally, I believe the aforementioned is best paired with Cythraul's pedigree system, and Psychonaut's more common sense approach to this issue.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Where do we draw the line? Why should we have to draw any line?
    In your view, is a person born in Sweden, with 18th Century Walloon ancestry, Swedish.

  3. #13
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    When does an ethnicity/ancestry become insignificant?
    It depends. My mother's ancestry is roughly 30% German. She had one grandfather who was fullblooded German, son of a German-born mother & with German-born paternal grandparents. She also had some addition minor German ancestry from the colonial era. My mother refers to herself as German, and she did have a German maiden-name. but it overloooks the overwhelming majority of her ancestry from the British Isles This is not unusual in the US, people will ignore their majority English/British ancestry but claim one that is 1/4 or less. For many persons ethnicity means something other then English, probably because English was the majority stock at one time & also because of the number of generations that have passed since the ancestors of most American with English ancestry came to America. Many Americans of colonial era stock just do not have a folk memory of immigrating, unlike recent groups like Italians or Poles. Some ethnicities are more important (in a multicultural society) then others, so 1/8 Italian would be more significant then 1/2 English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Lyfing View Post
    I have a dumb question.

    When filling out the part of Ethnicity, I put American. It seems it is more than that so what should I put? Is it based on how you are classified? Someone explain to me in simple terms, please. I am not as familiar to this particular subject as the rest of you.


    American is a popular ethnicity to claim in the South. It basically mean you are of Old Stock from the colonial era. Primarily of British (English Scots etc..) Stock, perhaps mixed with some German, Dutch or Huguenot. You've probably never heard a story about an immigrant in your family, they've been here so long no one can remember hearing about a ancestor who wasn't born in America. American tends to be popular in areas that were bypassed by the waves of immigration that took place from the mid-nineteeth century until the late 20th century when many rural areas started to receive Latino immigrants. American would have probably become the accepted ethnicity for all White Americans (excepting the descendents of the slaves) were it not for immigration of non-Germanic groups. American, as you use it as an ethnicity, mean the same thing as Anglo-American.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    No. You aren't Germanic. What good is there in deluding yourself?
    Are you aware that countries like Germany, England, Iceland and more are not "pure"? So it means many of their inhabitants are not Germanic, unless all their ancestors from 1000s of years ago are Germanic? Just who is Germanic then?

    I am mixed, but I am proud. I don't see any need for complicated and subjective justifications for why I should be proud. I wish others felt the same way.Disregarding ancestry of any degree is dangerous. It is inextricably tied to this game of self-justification.

    "I am ¼ X. My ancestry is acceptable. Therefore being ¼ X is acceptable."

    Where do we draw the line? Why should we have to draw any line? I say wear your ancestry as a badge of honor. There is no shame in loving who you are.
    I disagree. Disregarding distant ancestry should be encouraged, because it contributes to diluting that heritage and creating specimens closer to "purity". 1/4 becomes 1/8, 1/8 becomes 1/16, 1/16 becomes 1/32 and so forth. It is ricidulous to think that having 1/32 German ancestry makes one an ethnic German. It does not.

    The example you just gave happens to people who don't disregard their heritage and find personal reasons to encourage mixing. Instead, they should think it is not acceptable to mix with [blank] and therefore not repeat the mistake of their distant ancestors.

    I vote 1/16, but that's not for all cases. It's just the general and most common case in my opinion, because it's unlikely that a persons's great-great grandparent of [blank] ancestry will still be alive or able enough to pass his identity onto that person. With great-grandparents it's still possible, although not in many cases admittedly. With grandparents, it becomes more likely and with parents, at least in Europe, in most cases the child will be exposed to dual culture from both his parents in the household. I don't speak for American/New World cases since there are people there who don't pass down ethnic identity to their children.

  5. #15
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    I voted 1/8th, though it might be more. I mean, I have a 1/4 germanic ancestry but I don't consider myself as being 'germanic', not even hellenic-germanic since I was born and raised in Greece, greek is my native language and all that.
    I also have a 'noble' greek family line to be proud of and this is what I identify the most with (afterall, I do bear their last name).

    I do consider it significant enough to mention when brought up in the discussion (afterall, I do have 'fully' germanic relatives in the States). However, I would probably totally disregard it if it was 1/8th or 1/32rd.

    What would I say in that case? "I have a great-great-great grandfather who's germanic?" It would be ridiculous. Same goes for mischak's 1/32, in my opinion.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Axis View Post
    I voted 1/8th, though it might be more. I mean, I have a 1/4 germanic ancestry but I don't consider myself as being 'germanic', not even hellenic-germanic since I was born and raised in Greece, greek is my native language and all that.
    Exactly, you just illustrate the situation in Europe. I know a person who is 1/4 English but he was raised entirely German. He doesn't consider himself English and I don't consider him English either. But in the "New World" I guess it's different since it's possible to be even 3/4 German by blood and yet be totally integrated as American.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    I know a person who is 1/4 English but he was raised entirely German. He doesn't consider himself English and I don't consider him English either.
    I can beat that . I'm 1/2 Dutch but raised English. I don't consider myself Dutch.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

  8. #18
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    The fractions depend on the elements involved. If we're considering mixtures of two European nations with minuscule racial and cultural differences, I'd say as much as 1/4 foreign ancestry can be ignored.

    My father is 3/4 English and 1/4 Irish, and there's nothing 'Irish' about him whatsoever. There are no split loyalties when it comes to national or interpersonal events. I'm sure he probably goes for years without even remembering he's part 'foreign'. It's certainly not something he seems to be conscious of. His only Irish cultural inheritance was the Catholicism forced on him as a child by his half-Irish mother, which he subsequently rejected. My dad has no loyalties to Ireland, no known family there, and he doesn't even particularly like the Irish or Celts in general. His termperament is very middle-class English: he's stoic, conservative, a capitalist, and completely lacks any typically Irish traits -- no hot temper, no unbridled love of alcohol. It wasn't until I was about 12 that I even found out I had Irish blood in me, so unimportant did my father consider the fact.

    When the mixture is visible, it's a whole other matter. In such cases I'd say mixture would be relevant (in terms of the self-identity of an average person in an increasingly non-racially conscious society) for as many generations as it's apparent, and for as long as consciousness of (and importance given to) the foreignness persists. I generally find people take strange measures to eschew alienation. I know innumerable visibly mixed people who identify as 'white', despite not looking so. So I have little doubt and even greater number of mixed people without obvious traces of racial admixture would be quick to discard their non-European past and try and force themselves into the ever-expanding boundaries of 'white'.

    As for me, I'm indifferent to my Irish ancestry. It just doesn't pose a racial or cultural problem to me. In a way, my opinion of the Irish is higher since I found out. I recognise that they're distantly "my people", but this is just an occasional, dispassionate observation that I don't ponder on for long before I forget. It's nothing that's tearing apart the fibre of my ethnic identity.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    No. You aren't Germanic. What good is there in deluding yourself?
    That's your opinion. Obviously the majority of people, including myself, are going to disagree. Considering most English people are going to have Celtic (possibly recent or distant) ancestors somewhere in their bloodline, are you going to tell many of the English members here who identify with Germanic and not Celto-Germanic, that they're deluded as well?

    There is [i]no[/I
    ] reason not to be proud of your ancestry. The idea that you should "disregard" or deem "irrelevant" any part of your ancestry, I agree, is insulting.
    It's not about pride, it's about being logical.

    I am mixed, but I am proud. I don't see any need for complicated and subjective justifications for why I should be proud. I wish others felt the same way.Disregarding ancestry of any degree is dangerous. It is inextricably tied to this game of self-justification.
    Why are you on a Germanic preservation then? How can you preserve something you're not a part of? Maybe you should just join a multiculturalism forum and preserve that.

    "I am ¼ X. My ancestry is acceptable. Therefore being ¼ X is acceptable."

    Where do we draw the line? Why should we have to draw any line? I say wear your ancestry as a badge of honor. There is no shame in loving who you are.
    Because it becomes insignificant at a point. Genetically, I would say around 1/32-1/64. Culturally? Even less so. Probably around 1/4th. Like I said, ethnicity is more than just blood.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Resurgam's Avatar
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    American ancestry = Southron

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