Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Thread split: Origins and causes of WW2 - the good, the bad, the ugly and the responsible

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Astragoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Last Online
    1 Hour Ago @ 05:38 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Gender
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,088
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,034
    Thanked in
    566 Posts

    Thread split: Origins and causes of WW2 - the good, the bad, the ugly and the responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    I haven't read all nine pages of this thread.

    Hitler's mistake was waging war on non-German speaking peoples. He should have been satisfied with what he had.
    He had 16 million German speaking hostages in Eastern Europe and the entire jewish world looking to murder Germany and him with it. He couldn't sit back and watch. The Germans were the victims in WW2.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Astragoth For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Active Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Skadi Funding Member
    Elizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    European American
    Ancestry
    United Kingdom, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Germany, France
    mtDNA
    H1c12
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Florida Florida
    Gender
    Age
    50
    Zodiac Sign
    Aries
    Politics
    Pro-Trump, Nationalist
    Religion
    Folkish Heathen
    Posts
    1,081
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    979
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,067
    Thanked in
    524 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    He had 16 million German speaking hostages in Eastern Europe and the entire jewish world looking to murder Germany and him with it. He couldn't sit back and watch. The Germans were the victims in WW2.

    Then he should have only fought in Eastern Europe for the 16 million German speaking hostages and left France and the rest of Europe alone, and should have left North Africa alone. He bit off more than he could chew. He spread himself too thin.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Astragoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Last Online
    1 Hour Ago @ 05:38 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Gender
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,088
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,034
    Thanked in
    566 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    Then he should have only fought in Eastern Europe for the 16 million German speaking hostages and left France and the rest of Europe alone, and should have left North Africa alone. He bit off more than he could chew. He spread himself too thin.
    Tell it to the Brits and French. They were building up forces to attack behind the French fortifications. Its why they were built in the first place. It was the same thing the Russians were doing. Of course Hitler attacked them.

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Astragoth For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Last Online
    6 Days Ago @ 02:40 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Country
    England England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Telecoms
    Politics
    National Conservative
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    21
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    15
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    21
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Hitler had his ethnostate, he should have been satisfied with that. But no. His mistake was not being satisfied with it, and wanting more territory. I bet if German nationalists could rewind the clock to 1935 and pursue diplomacy instead of militarism, they would.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to BattleAxe For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Senior Member
    Astragoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Last Online
    1 Hour Ago @ 05:38 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Gender
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,088
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,034
    Thanked in
    566 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleAxe View Post
    Hitler had his ethnostate, he should have been satisfied with that. But no. His mistake was not being satisfied with it, and wanting more territory. I bet if German nationalists could rewind the clock to 1935 and pursue diplomacy instead of militarism, they would.
    He tried that dozens of times actually. Tell it to the Brits and French as above.

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Astragoth For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Member
    Emma of Normandy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Last Online
    1 Day Ago @ 06:52 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    England, Germany
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    North Carolina North Carolina
    Location
    Piedmont
    Gender
    Family
    Married parent
    Occupation
    Librarian
    Politics
    Conservative, nationalist
    Religion
    Anglican Church in North America
    Posts
    42
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    26
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    43
    Thanked in
    29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleAxe View Post
    Hitler had his ethnostate, he should have been satisfied with that. But no. His mistake was not being satisfied with it, and wanting more territory. I bet if German nationalists could rewind the clock to 1935 and pursue diplomacy instead of militarism, they would.
    The problem is that the whole people weren't within its borders. Hitler's "aggression" was largely aimed at freeing German people, not just of Germanic blood but German speaking and identifying as German, from other lands where they were being actively persecutred.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Emma of Normandy For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Senior Member
    Nordic Angel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Online
    5 Days Ago @ 03:53 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Nordid + Dalofaelid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Family
    Married parent
    Politics
    Germanic Nationalism
    Religion
    Heathen
    Posts
    297
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    211
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    424
    Thanked in
    140 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    Then he should have only fought in Eastern Europe for the 16 million German speaking hostages and left France and the rest of Europe alone, and should have left North Africa alone. He bit off more than he could chew. He spread himself too thin.
    It was France and England who declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Don't you know that?

  13. #8
    Active Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Skadi Funding Member
    Žoreišar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    3 Hours Ago @ 03:34 AM
    Ethnicity
    Scandinavian
    Gender
    Posts
    2,743
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,836
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,867
    Thanked in
    938 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleAxe View Post
    Hitler had his ethnostate, he should have been satisfied with that. But no. His mistake was not being satisfied with it, and wanting more territory. I bet if German nationalists could rewind the clock to 1935 and pursue diplomacy instead of militarism, they would.
    I agree, but one also has to wonder what France, Britain and Russia had in store for Germany already in 1935. The Zionists declared "war" on Germany in 1933, and they surely would have kept pushing to make it more than a symbolic threat as their power and influence grew in the three aforementioned countries (which probably would have taken a similar course even in the absence of WW2). France and Britain's military pacts with Poland made it very clear that they were simply looking for an excuse to bring down Germany. And we know that the USSR wouldn't have simply stopped their expansion at Poland and called it a day, unless they were physically stopped. In Hitler's shoes, I don't know if one would want to just sit and wait for that.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

  14. #9
    Still just only death
    Chlodovech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Flemish
    Ancestry
    Frankish
    Country
    Holy Roman Empire Holy Roman Empire
    Gender
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    3,688
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,037
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,182
    Thanked in
    1,458 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I agree, but one also has to wonder what France, Britain and Russia had in store for Germany already in 1935.
    Not an invasion at any rate. If they wanted to invade Germany and topple Hitler that way they could've done so easily enough in 1936, on the basis of a "technicality", the remilitarisation of the Rhineland. There would've been little fighting: those few German battalions entering the Rhineland were no match for the French army - and Hitler and perhaps the national socialist revolution would've been in serious trouble, Hitler could've been deposed by the army or perhaps even his own party or the German people, after that. This was Hitler's scariest pre-war crisis.

    But eventually some other German leader, a more ready one, perhaps a bonapartist or a monarchist, would've tried entering the Rhineland again - a decade later or so.

    Not saying there weren't Germanophobic forces at play in France/Britain, some downright advocating declaring war on Germany, even on Weimar-Germany, all throughout the thirties - but the hawks were obviously not the dominant political wave. Fear for another war was too big for that in the UK and France. Germany's enemies seem to have been thinking more of staging a color revolution avant la lettre and/or isolating Gemany internationally (like they would do with Japan, eventually forcing its leadership to either go to war or implement democracy and liberalism or face a revolution which would), and hence weakening it.

    The Zionists declared "war" on Germany in 1933, and they surely would have kept pushing to make it more than a symbolic threat as their power and influence grew in the three aforementioned countries (which probably would have taken a similar course even in the absence of WW2).
    The zionists also officially ended that boycott well before WW2 commenced, as agreements were made between Jewish representatives and the Third Reich - although this was not the end of Jewish agitation or various goy plans to ruin NS-Germany - as for instance some segments of the Jewish world population continued to boycott NS-Germany, American Jewry would until the start of WW2.

    France and Britain's military pacts with Poland made it very clear that they were simply looking for an excuse to bring down Germany.
    Yes, yet that's not how Chamberlain saw it as he would never have started war over Poland himself, but the hawks (the neocons of that time and their Jewish backers) did. And the hawks forced his hand.

    And we know that the USSR wouldn't have simply stopped their expansion at Poland and called it a day, unless they were physically stopped. In Hitler's shoes, I don't know if one would want to just sit and wait for that.
    True, they would not have stopped after Poland - they didn't - after Poland followed parts of Finland, Romania and eventually the Baltic states in their entirety. But like with the annexation of Eastern Poland, all of it was begrudgingly approved of in advance by the Germans for strategic reasons - they were concessions. There's no way the USSR would have expanded into Eastern and Northern Europe in the late thirties and early forties without German concessions and an agreement between Berlin and Moscow or German weakness or the failure of the international community to act. The Soviets would not have seized eastern Poland if the Germans don't seize the western half of it in 1939, they would've never been there without a German-Soviet partnership. The Soviets probably preferred (an ostensibly defensive) military alliance with Britain and France, but the latter not demonstrating a sense of urgency to form such an alliance drove Stalin into the arms of Hitler.

    The U.S. may have played a nefarious role in the Polish affair in a now neglected historical episode - the Polish statesman Piłsudski and some parts of his government seemed to have been willing to renegotiate the exact location of the German-Polish border when he was still alive in the first half of the Thirties, but the U.S. paying lip service behind the scenes to the idea of intervening on behalf of the Poles in case of a German-Polish conflict dissuaded the Poles from being more forthcoming with the Germans and granting territorial concessions. So the Americans may have discouraged the Poles to reach a peaceful settlement when there was a Polish government willing to reach one, hence maintaining the politically unhealthy status quo. Not sure which machinations were behind this American move, but it must have been the work of very bad people. MCP3 brings up Roosevelt's role in 1939 here.

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleAxe
    Hitler had his ethnostate, he should have been satisfied with that. But no. His mistake was not being satisfied with it, and wanting more territory. I bet if German nationalists could rewind the clock to 1935 and pursue diplomacy instead of militarism, they would.
    Most Western Europeans had ethnostates prior to WW2, even before Hitler came to power Germany was an ethnostate, but only Germany had mutilated borders and saw millions of Germans living outside of the German ethnostate. Anglo-America, France and the British Empire would not have tolerated such a situation either, that's why none of them had any serious territorial demands of their own anymore in the interwar years - they had proper ethnostates. And you're speaking with the benefit of hindsight here, because between the start of WW2 and the failure of the German summer campaigns in the USSR and North-Africa in 1942, scenarios which see Germany win or at least not lose WW2 were possible.

    All it takes for Germany to change the course of world history is to hold out in Stalingrad all throughout 1943 - thereby blocking river transports on the Don and Wolga - the Soviets would've literally starved to death and be forced to sign an armistice in 1944. This could've been achieved as long as the Germans had a mobile reserve on the Eastern Front to counter any Soviet offensives to regain the Stalingrad area with - which they had - but most of it was fighting a less crucial battle to the west of Moscow when the Soviet attack came in November 1942 (Operation Uranus). The Germans believed the Soviets were on their last legs after reaching the Wolga and Stalingrad, as usual, and didn't build up a serious mobile reserve in the South of the USSR; they could not conceive the Soviets had sufficient forces left to embark on offensive operations in two different sectors of the Eastern Front at once, that's to say, not only to the west of Moscow (the Rzhev Salient), but also in and around Stalingrad. See post #81.
    “Liberalism is the exoteric religion of the financial oligarchs, the high priests of Mammon who rule the West. Appealing to the vanity and self-regard of the profane, they manufacture consent by way of elections, propaganda and all manner of distractive spectacle. Manipulation of the popular consciousness, a black art honed to new levels of refinement over the last century, is now accomplished through electronic memes and quite literal programming in television, music and film. An inverted hierarchy will promote inverted values. Who among us today honors saints and warriors past as heroes worthy of our emulation? Under the usury bankster regime, we instead offer adoration to the savage and the harlot.” — Mark Hackard, from ‘Counterfeit Paradise'

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chlodovech For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Senior Member
    Astragoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Last Online
    1 Hour Ago @ 05:38 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Gender
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,088
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,034
    Thanked in
    566 Posts
    Please just stop. The Germans were the victims in WW2. I am so sick of seeing blame heaped on the people who had the least responsibility for the war. It's obscene.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Astragoth For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Thread split: WW1 & WW2, an all-Anglo squabble
    By Astragoth in forum Modern Age & Contemporary History
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Friday, March 6th, 2020, 03:31 PM
  2. Would You Say This Person Is Rather Good Looking Or Ugly Looking?
    By Gegenschlag in forum Men, Women, & Relationships
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: Sunday, January 19th, 2020, 11:34 AM
  3. The Good, the Bad, and That's It.
    By Wittmann in forum The Hearth
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, August 22nd, 2010, 11:44 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •