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Thread: Do You Mourn The Ascent From Primitivism?

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    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Do You Mourn The Ascent From Primitivism?

    I suppose the very way I worded the thread title encapsulates both points of view - 'mourn' suggesting something good lost and 'ascent' suggesting something worse replaced by something better.

    Do you have romantic views of the distant past, or are you thankful to have been born in this here day and age? I'm not talking about an early 20th century golden age or anything that recent - Do you envy those who lived and died prior to the Middle Ages?

    I was going to make this topic a poll, but I anticipate any replies being beyond 'yes' and 'no'.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    Senior Member Oskorei's Avatar
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    In several ways I can see that the past was "better". Our distant ancestors, the hunters of post-glacial Europe, had a much closer relationship both to nature and to the spiritual, and their lives involved a natural heroism and tribal solidarity that has been long lost since.

    The anarcho-primitivists, at least in Sweden, has degenerated into political correctness, but there is several useful points in the works of people like Zerzan and Kazcinsky.

    But being inspired by the archeo-futurism of Guillaume Faye, I believe that we can resurrect many of the better ideals of our ancestors even in the future. Neo-luddism, and the abolishment of technology, would only make us easy prey for other peoples.

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    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    Do you have romantic views of the distant past, or are you thankful to have been born in this here day and age? I'm not talking about an early 20th century golden age or anything that recent - Do you envy those who lived and died prior to the Middle Ages?
    I have a romantic view of the not so distant past. I would give anything to put myself in the shoes of my aristocratic ancestors who lived in Switzerland, Germany and France during the late 16th and early 17th centuries. The period of time that bore witness to the peak of Gothic architecture and the birth of Baroque music is, in my opinion, the highest point that the West has ever reached.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Can we seperate what has always been inextricably linked - technological advancement and spiritual detriment? I'm not so sure. Those two developments, one positive, one negative, needn't be proportionate to one another, yet I feel our modern world proves that they are, in practice.

    Something I feel is very important to this discussion is how accurate our view of history is. Romantics are often told that they look to the ancient world through rose-tinted spectacles, but my studies have shown the opposite to be true. After all, wouldn't it be in the best interests of our current authorities to make it appear as though we have it good today compared to yesteryear - in the same way that they make it appear as though we have it good in our country compared to elsewhere? Our ancient ancestors were scientists, philosophers, astrologists, healers, builders and warriors. What have we gained since then? Is modern medicine really the pinnacle of healing? Does the physical fitness of our highest paid footballers really compare to that of ancient warriors? How about the average person? Are we really better off in offices working towards some obscure goal instead of tending our land or building homes for the benefit of our own community?

    Whichever way I look at the subject, I'm drawn to the same conclusion - life in the 20/21st century is not the best it has ever been.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    Senior Member BeornWulfWer's Avatar
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    I have always wanted to experience the hunter gatherer stage of mankind.

    Yes, it was violent and short lived. With many risks of disease; not to mention the very realistic chances each day of damaging yourself and never recovering.
    There is no secure second chances in this era.

    You survive or you die.

    The aspects of this life which appeal to me and make me believe it to be a period I would like to experience is the strong bonds and lack of civilised pressures.

    Your day would consist of waking up with your family and close kin. You would perhaps joke and laugh, or have discussions with your family. No rush to go catch your daily travel arrangements. No alienation of oneself and soul by being encased in one soulless procession to earn money to buy food and objects which are free anyway. No need to work to pay for the right to live in a house which, for all things said, you could build yourself. No devotion to grinding your life away to pay for taxes which benefit people you don't know and have no love or thought to.

    Your whole purpose when you leave your home will be to successfully pull down and kill an animal to feed for none but your own.

    The women and old of the family will invariably be foraging for wild plants to harvest and perhaps even catching small animals such as hares to boost the chances of being fed that very day.

    Others may be at home teaching others who are too young to hunt or forage to create items which will benefit them and their family.
    Skin an animal, create a warm outfit to clothe a member. Learn how to create weapons in which all your life would depend upon being near perfection for its purpose.

    The men on the hunt would be proficient at their skills and the younger members would be learning and adapting their skills by watching and learning. The skills of the elders would be handed down and therefore ensuring the survival of their family, their lineage.

    The trust and respect for knowledge would be paramount. The family will not eat that night if you have but only one petulant and insincere member of your group. The group would hunt as one, slowly tracking their meal by constant communication which each other. No time for loud mouthed individuals who think they know best. You listen to every word your elder is saying and to every instinct your body is telling you.

    Upon the successful completion of your hunt, perhaps the carving and skinning of the animal would begin straight away whilst others track back home to gain more hands to carry home the prize meal.

    The successful hunt of a Mammoth would mean perhaps the next day you would not need to hunt. You have enough food to eat well and extend the strength of your family bonds.

    Play with the children. Tell them stories. Regale them with bravery shown that very day by you or your family members in the hunt.

    Ensure your love and bond with your partner is close and personal.



    I don't think mankind is supposed to live the way it does at present. To much has been emphasized on appeasing the greater of society which, as I said, you will never meet or engage with. The emphasis seems to detail you committing to laws and regulations which do not necessarily benefit or exceed your place in life.

    The purpose of man and mankind is to procreate and ensure the survival of their offspring.

    Anything which came after or during this is pure entertainment and/or needless.
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

    _________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    Can we seperate what has always been inextricably linked - technological advancement and spiritual detriment? I'm not so sure. Those two developments, one positive, one negative, needn't be proportionate to one another, yet I feel our modern world proves that they are, in practice.
    If by "spiritual detriment" you mean the gradual ditching of religion/mysticism throughout the first world, a difference in opinion, like between me as an atheist and another as a pagan/christian (respectfully), results in flipping this from a negative to a positive thing entirely. As far as I am concerned, there is no downside to technological advancement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    What have we gained since then? Is modern medicine really the pinnacle of healing?
    You're not really comparing modern medicine to the shamans of old, are you? I underwent what is today a routine surgical procedure without which, as would have been the case had I lived in ancient times, I would have been dead now. The "healers" of the ancient world would have told me my illness was because of evil spirits. The practices of ancients is comparable to those of tribal third-worlders today, which I ridicule on an almost daily basis. Sorry.

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    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    You paint a wonderful picture BeornWulfWer

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    between me as an atheist and another as a pagan/christian (respectfully), results in flipping this from a negative to a positive thing entirely.
    Absolutely. I anticipated two main responses to this question of primitivism - those who romanticize the past and those who feel we have it good. Without deliberately undermining your beliefs, I would suggest that the reason you're sternly atheistic is precisely because you live in the modern times where we have been all but stripped of our life and soul. We have no reason to believe in anything but science because our Priests are corrupt and our ways industrial. According to my beliefs one must be in touch with nature in order to be close with the spirit. To me, it's no wonder so many of us mock spirituality - we're detached from the spirit world and the primary example placed before our eyes by the Church is a soulless shambles. But then you'd probably think me a little bit ignorant for my beliefs .

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    You're not really comparing modern medicine to the shamans of old, are you?
    Comparing them? No. The shamans of old did indeed believe that to heal the body one must heal the spirit. We in our modern times treat the body as a spiritless vessel. Very different methods and niether are without their inadequacies. You say you underwent an operation that saved your life and that's great. But in terms of pharmeceuticals, most are geared towards relieving symptoms not ridding the root cause. Shamanic healing works the other way around - attacking as close to the root problem as possible. In my experience, mainly due to the poor treatment my suffering girlfriend has received from western medicine, I have little faith in it. It has proven ill-equipped to solve her problems. The closest to health she has been was when her power animal was identified for her.

    As I mentioned in my previous post, I believe there is an agenda to demonize our history - to make it appear barbaric, ignorant and plagued by suffering. Of course we're told that, because if we weren't we'd started to question the barbarism, ignorance and suffering that is rife in our modern times and anarchy would prevail. The ancients studied the stars, knew how to heal the body and spirit, and had the kind of healthy family/community relationships which we can but dream of. Yes, my greatest wish would be that I was born before Christ.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    I suppose the very way I worded the thread title encapsulates both points of view - 'mourn' suggesting something good lost and 'ascent' suggesting something worse replaced by something better.

    Do you have romantic views of the distant past, or are you thankful to have been born in this here day and age? I'm not talking about an early 20th century golden age or anything that recent - Do you envy those who lived and died prior to the Middle Ages?

    I was going to make this topic a poll, but I anticipate any replies being beyond 'yes' and 'no'.
    I absolutely mourn it. I am proud of the Wandering Period and our subsequent growth as a people, but I'm afraid our ancestors traded their own souls for glory. I am inclined to think our people were better off before Wandering.

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    Senior Member Thrymheim's Avatar
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    I would have liked to live at any time when our people were exploring and/or conquering new lands, I would very much like to return to such a life but I will also freely admit that I would wish to do so with the benefits of modern medicine and electricity. Being female there are many periods that I am very glad I am not a part of but in general I think I would have liked it before the industrial revolution. I often have a Rosy picture of past times, but perhaps that is because the things I enjoy belong to those times and the things I dislike are products of our modern lives, I have no problem with spending the whole day hunting, fishing or gathering and I do do so often, but i loath spending a day indoors working.
    Cattle die, kinsmen die,
    the self must also die;
    but glory never dies,
    For the one who is able to achieve it.

    Sayings of the High One.

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    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrymheim View Post
    I would very much like to return to such a life but I will also freely admit that I would wish to do so with the benefits of modern medicine and electricity.
    It's a common argument isn't it - "You wouldn't like life without modern comforts very much". And perhaps we have all been weakened to require such comforts. Perhaps those comforts are actually the chains that bind us - the reason that most of us dedicate 40 hours a week towards jobs and companies we hate. We sold our souls for those comforts, but even those of us who know this would be hard pressed to completely give up electricity, hot water and medicine. Nevertheless, I do believe we've forsaken our spirit for those things and I'd rather have my spirit back. If I could be reborn into antiquity and have my knowledge of modern comforts erased, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    For now I'll just let books and imagination take me back to those virgin lands, that tribal security, that freedom, those un-hindered starry skies, that ability to hunt and build, that warrior mentality and a time of cultural growth.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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