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Thread: Do You Mourn The Ascent From Primitivism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    . and have my knowledge of modern comforts erased, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
    Same, the knowledge would have to be erased as knowing what was possible we would soon rebuild. It is strange how one forgets about things that others take for granted, TV would be an example I don't miss it at all (and I don't watch tv on the net either) When I'm computer less I soon forget about it too, so I expect electricity would be the same.
    Last edited by Thrymheim; Monday, September 22nd, 2008 at 08:54 AM. Reason: If I could spell I would be dangerous
    Cattle die, kinsmen die,
    the self must also die;
    but glory never dies,
    For the one who is able to achieve it.

    Sayings of the High One.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    I suppose the very way I worded the thread title encapsulates both points of view - 'mourn' suggesting something good lost and 'ascent' suggesting something worse replaced by something better.

    Do you have romantic views of the distant past, or are you thankful to have been born in this here day and age? I'm not talking about an early 20th century golden age or anything that recent - Do you envy those who lived and died prior to the Middle Ages?
    The use of the word 'mourn' reminds of a story of Professor Tolkien who, when pondering on the Norman invasion of England would weep uncontrollably.
    He mourned the loss of Anglo-Saxon England at the hands of the brutal and perfidious Normans.

    So there is a sense of historical loss that I too feel keenly.

    But then there is the feeling of Mythic Loss - yes, the Golden Age syndrome.

    But I see this latter as far more positive - it is not remembered with mourning [due perhaps to its hyper-reality, but also due to its ever-present immortality] because it is always thought that it could be re-attained.

    History has destroyed our dreams and limited our horizons.
    The historical past is gone, dead.

    But the mythic past is eternal and there to be retaken and re-ensouled by the brave.

    Yes, the heroic among us do not mourn the mythic past - we rather yearn for its eternal return.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    I certainly do mourn it, and it's of my opinion that if we are going to survive then we need to go back to our roots and start living this way again from scratch, we can actually create an even better hunter gatherer society today than what our ancestors had because of the knowledge we have today. I dont think knowledge is corrupt and the knowledge we have today is far superior to that of our ancestors and I do think it can spiritually enlighten us however technology has destroyed our soul and society today is completely alien to that of the old ways.

    We now have words in our society like "old fashioned" and "get with the times" as if just because an idea is new it is immediately good and just because an idea is old it is immediately bad and wants to stop our advancement, theres nothing wrong with societys advanceing and making things easier, thats why our ancestors instead of hunting everyday realised it would be easier to capture a few, domesticate them and put them in a caged field and let them breed. I think in Britain our country stopped advanceing spiritually after the Romans came, or rarther after the Romans converted to Christianity came and now today nobody seems to be able to think outside of Roman law or ideology, the old ways are virtually extinct in peoples mind, all modern thought came out of Rome.

    Medical advancements today are good yes but most illeness and diseases have come from modern things, I seriously dont think cancer would have exitsed thousands of years ago because they didn't breath in the filth that we do or eat the crap that we do or be as lazy as us, isn't it scientifclly proven that a healthy state of mind is one of the best ways to help combat illness like cancer anyway and you body effectively fights it off it's self? Where as sombody with depression has a seriously lower chance of survival. Being spiritually healthy is a key part of health.

    What we need is a good few hundred of us to go out into the Scottish highlands or somthing and start right over, it keeps getting said I dont think it will ever happen though because our Germanic peservation people have adopted the modern thought of being all talk and nobody wanting to take a stand and actually get the ball rolling.

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    I know this topic has been dormant for a little while, but I was browsing through it and find the question very interesting.

    None of us has first-hand experience with what it was like to be alive in the 17th century, the 14th century, 2000 years ago, or in pre-history. Looking at these things is like looking at one of those optical-illusion pictures that can be two things, depending on what you focus on: the goblet or the faces, the old woman or the young woman, or the Neker Cube. You can look at history in one way and think, "Wow... what a true, real, human, and profoundly satisfying way of life!" Or you can look at history in another way and think that it was stinky, painful, risky, stressful and profoundly unhappy. And no matter what you think you think, you don't know... because you weren't there.

    The only analogy that I can think of to make it more clear, is by looking back on my own life. I've gone through many phases, and in essence been many different people: while a teenager, while in college, while in graduate school, while an adult in my 20's, and as an adult in my 30's now. I can look back on any earlier stage and think X was better then but Y was worse then.

    But you know what really stands out? At the time it was happening, I was neither more nor less happy. Life simply was what it was. I was happy with the things that worked and unhappy with the things that were not working, but there is no "absolute" difference that I experienced at different phases in life. The only differences I see now are in retrospect: in many ways, they are an illusion created by my perspective, looking back from now.

    So I wonder if the same thing is true when looking back over history. We imagine previous eras, using the lenses of today to evaluate them, but of course for those living at the time -- it was only life. The good things were good and the bad things were bad.

    And I trust, if any of you magically were transported into that lifestyle, once the novelty wore off, you would feel the same way.

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    Wink Something lost? I think so.

    There is much to be said for the anarcho-primitivist/anti-technological perspective.

    Especially our innate spiritual connections between ourselves, our families, our "tribes", and our environments.

    The Aboriginal peoples of Australia still have their spiritual connection to the universe and the "DreamTime".

    We as Folk have lost this connection. In our globalized culture Aboriginal Peoples are permitted such "eccentricities" because truth being told, modern society believes that these are harmless and quaint superstitions.

    The fact that they are spiritually true has no relevance in an empirical world.

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    In some ways I am a bit of a romantic; however, much of that is tempered by the fact that I'm female and there are many time periods I truly would rather NOT return to. I hate the fact that technology has contributed to such a widespread disconnection from our earthly roots, and unfortunately one of its effects has been to degrade natural ecosystems far too much to make a return to non-technological ways practical.

    In other ways I wish I could just jump ahead a few hundred or a few thousand years into the future and hope to the gods that we've gotten to other planets by then-- I write science fiction, though, so of COURSE I would say that. (Incidentally, one of the major planets I write about was colonized by Germanic nationalists. Of course, I write about a whole lot of OTHER cultures, too, but overall I project most ethnic groups as having stuck with their own and founded their own respective colonies.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyFirehawk View Post
    In some ways I am a bit of a romantic; however, much of that is tempered by the fact that I'm female and there are many time periods I truly would rather NOT return to. I hate the fact that technology has contributed to such a widespread disconnection from our earthly roots, and unfortunately one of its effects has been to degrade natural ecosystems far too much to make a return to non-technological ways practical.

    In other ways I wish I could just jump ahead a few hundred or a few thousand years into the future and hope to the gods that we've gotten to other planets by then-- I write science fiction, though, so of COURSE I would say that. (Incidentally, one of the major planets I write about was colonized by Germanic nationalists. Of course, I write about a whole lot of OTHER cultures, too, but overall I project most ethnic groups as having stuck with their own and founded their own respective colonies.)
    If you're interested in an archetypal past in which women wielded spiritual and political power, and our ancestors lived in harmony with the earth, have a look at the Oera Linda Book, which I recently mentioned on a different thread - http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    If you're interested in an archetypal past in which women wielded spiritual and political power, and our ancestors lived in harmony with the earth, have a look at the Oera Linda Book, which I recently mentioned on a different thread - http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/
    Oooh, I'll have to check out both the thread and the link. Thank you!

    On that note, I suppose I wouldn't mind returning to pre-Christian Scandinavia...
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
    --Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhere View Post
    have a look at the Oera Linda Book, which I recently mentioned on a different thread - http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/
    First of all, the contents of the link is radical different from the last time I checked it. Second, you do know that the Oeralinda Book is considered a forgery.
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
    it is only to be met with in minds which are naturally noble or
    cultivated by good examples and a refined education.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyFirehawk View Post
    Oooh, I'll have to check out both the thread and the link. Thank you!

    On that note, I suppose I wouldn't mind returning to pre-Christian Scandinavia...
    Check out the Egtved Girl for an example of a high status pre-Christian Scandinavian woman, whose burial has been dated to 1370 BC - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egtved_Girl

    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    First of all, the contents of the link is radical different from the last time I checked it. Second, you do know that the Oeralinda Book is considered a forgery.
    There have always been those who have sought to deny any sort of legitimacy to the book, and so preserve the academic status quo. Whatever the provenance of the manuscript, however, it was clearly based on ancient traditions and oral histories.

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