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Thread: Human Experimentation and Animal Experimentation

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    Human Experimentation and Animal Experimentation

    When if at all is it acceptable to conduct human experimentation?

    When the subject consents against a sum of money or for charitable reason?
    When the subject is dead, and the family donates the body for research?
    When the subject is a convicted criminal, in place of the death penalty?

    Is animal experimentation more "ethical" than human experimentation? Why?
    Should animal experimentation be allowed?

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Any voluntary experimentation is fine, and criminals have no rights. If we can't find any people to experiment on, then I guess animals will have to do, though only for serious health things and not testing cosmetics on them.
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    Senior Member Rainraven's Avatar
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    Well voluntary human testing is fine, if they are offered money for it than all the better for them though I must say if I was offered a large sum of money for some sort of medical experiment I would start to be rather concerned that they were somehow trying to buy me off.

    There can be difficulties with families donating dead bodies, often even though people wish to be an organ donor the body cannot be taken without the families permission. It makes it quite important that people tell their families what they want done with their bodies, but if it hasn't been expressely wished that they want their body to be donated to science then the famliy shouldn't do it, it's disrespectful to the dead.

    Criminals? Seems alot harsher than the easy death we give them with the death penalty (though I don't believe in that) but if it has to be tested on humans then I guess they are the best option.

    I don't believe in animal testing
    1) They don't have any sort of choice in the matter and
    2) Unlike criminals they haven't done anything to deserve.

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    Senior Member BeornWulfWer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    When the subject is a convicted criminal, in place of the death penalty?
    I can agree with the other examples. The wish for your body to be experimented upon after death is a big decision when comparing the emotions of your loved ones you leave behind, but if proper attention and notification is offered by the donor to the family, and everything is acceptable and above board, then I cannot see what could stop it happening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Is animal experimentation more "ethical" than human experimentation? Why?
    Should animal experimentation be allowed?
    Have the animals given their consent to being experimented upon? Do we as humans have the absolute dominance upon this world to dictate the ethics of experimenting upon other species?

    I believe we don't. I believe the experiments conducted upon animals is wholly wrong and sickening.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Any voluntary experimentation is fine, and criminals have no rights.
    I'm presuming the criminals are dead, right?

    Anyway, who is to say the criminals have no rights? If the criminal has been executed or died of natural causes whilst serving their time within prison, then the moral punishment they were exacted to repay to society is null and void, or completed.

    The body of any one is not for some unscrupulous system to grab and conduct experiments upon as they please!

    The persons religious and cultural wishes should be met. The wishes of the family should also be met.

    The person may have been a criminal, but the family should not be punished for that either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    If we can't find any people to experiment on, then I guess animals will have to do, though only for serious health things and not testing cosmetics on them.
    But why should we sacrifice animals if we can't find humans? What's with this humanocentric, Christian beliefs in the world? Animals are more innocent than humans. Animals don't hurt anyone unless provoked. There are plenty of humans who cause much more harm than animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    I'm presuming the criminals are dead, right?
    I don't know if that's what he meant but it wasn't what I meant. I was referring to live criminals. We can't conduct all experiments on dead people now, can we? How will we know if some medication works against a disease if the patient is dead? Instead of giving the heinous criminals the death penalty, the state could allow them to be used for experimentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Animals are more innocent than humans. Animals don't hurt anyone unless provoked. There are plenty of humans who cause much more harm than animals.
    You don't mind the termination of unborn children and/or the extermination of diseased and retarded people, but you draw a line at animal experimentation?


    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    I was referring to live criminals.
    In that case, NO!

    If the world of science wishes to conduct live experiments upon Humans, then the world of science should provide its 'own' from its ranks.

    Seems only fair.
    Last edited by BeornWulfWer; Tuesday, September 16th, 2008 at 03:19 PM. Reason: .
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    You don't mind the termination of unborn children and/or the extermination of diseased and retarded people, but you draw a line at animal experimentation?
    Yes. Animals kill their weak too, in case you haven't noticed. Some mothers abandon their weak cubs and let them die off. It's nature. Experimentation is a different thing. We do it for our own so we must use our own. Another thing is you can't compare animal to human. To know whether something works on a human, the most accurate is by trying it on a human.

    In that case, NO!

    If the world of science wishes to conduct live experiments upon Humans, then the world of science should provide its 'own' from its ranks.

    Seems only fair.
    Some scientists did just that, experimented on themselves, however it's not a good idea. They need to be in perfect state to record the results and come up with new ideas.

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    In my view, neither human experimentation or animal experimentation is justified except in the first case you mentioned, when there is consent. That excludes all animals since they can't give their consent.
    In Europe, criminals still have some rights, human rights like the right to life, the right to be protected against cruel and unusual punishments like torture, so that excludes being turned into laboratory mice.
    After death, the body should only be used if the person left it written in their will or somehow else desired. But the family can't decide for the dead, because it's not their body, only his.

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    Senior Member Thrymheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    When if at all is it acceptable to conduct human experimentation?

    When the subject consents against a sum of money or for charitable reason?
    Yes it's a good system

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    When the subject is dead, and the family donates the body for research?
    A body is only meat, I believe that the assumption should be that consent has been given and one should have to opt out, not in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    When the subject is a convicted criminal, in place of the death penalty?
    More difficult here, most experiments do not kill. I would say that if you have a death penalty then you have decided that that person has done something so heinous that they have given up all their rights (as the right to life is surly the most important.) and therefore it would be ok to experiment, however I don't think I would be comfortable with sanctioning it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Is animal experimentation more "ethical" than human experimentation? Why?
    Should animal experimentation be allowed?
    It is no more ethical, but I think it should be done for medical reasons, and when you say thats human-centric, yes it is but if I didn't believe that my species/race is superior and deserves protecting then I wouldn't be on this board!
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    I support animal testing. Without it, we would never have come so far nor could scientific and medical research today advance at any efficient rate. Human test subjects are few. The cost for their participation is not cheap, and they are sometimes not very suitable for testing. Certain species of animal, however, are plentiful, inexpensive and can be learned from with less difficulty and time. Their use has assisted greatly in the acquirement of information, technologies and life-saving inventions for people as well as animals. If some dogs, mice, rats, monkeys, etc. have to be sacrificed so that we may have another treatment, medicine, vaccine or cure, so be it. The loss of animal lives, while saddening, is worth the betterment of ours. To halt animal testing would be inhumane and counter-productive because there simply isn't any better option currently. I also support testing on criminals, but it should be no substitute for the death penalty.

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