View Poll Results: Who were the Creators of Ancient Greece and Rome?

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  • Predominantly classic Meds. Modern Meds are genetically relatively unaltered descendants of this classic population.

    12 22.64%
  • Predominantly classic Meds. Modern Meds, however, can not claim genetic identity with this classic population. The result of admixture and/or breeding since then was probably not eugenic.

    3 5.66%
  • A blend of various Europid sub-races, such as Meds and/or Alpines and/or Nordids. The modern inhabitants of the European Mediterranean region are genetically relatively unaltered descendants of this classic population.

    22 41.51%
  • A blend of various Europid sub-races, such as Meds and/or Alpines and/or Nordids. The modern inhabitants of the European Mediterranean region, however, can not claim genetic identity with this classic population. The result of admixture and/or breeding since then was probably not eugenic.

    3 5.66%
  • Classic Meds and/or a blend of various Europid sub-races. There was, however, a strong Nordish element amongst the elite. This element is genetically still present, albeit less visible in the phenotype due to recessivity of many Nordish physical traits.

    4 7.55%
  • Classic Meds and/or a blend of various Europid sub-races. There was, however, a strong Nordish element amongst the elite. This element has been diminished over time by sub-racial mixing and/or dysgenic breeding, and this process was an important reason for the decline of these civilizations.

    5 9.43%
  • Congoids and/or Semites. This fact has been covered up by a white racist conspiracy.

    2 3.77%
  • None of the offered options are satisfying. The truth is that ... (please elaborate.)

    2 3.77%
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Thread: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

  1. #21
    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    So Awar, i assume you have been a Pelasgian in one of your previous incarnations, and you are able to know first hand, in what exactly they believed in? Well, if this is the case, and you state this after your session with your psychic/hypnotist, fine, otherwise it is impossible for you to know...
    Why, did your psychic/hypnotist tell you otherwise, or are you just mad at me 'cause I don't like to see mudslinging between you and Razmig?

  2. #22
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Zeus shows so much similarities with other IE gods that it is, if you think about the strong influence of IE social structures, language, religion etc. in general it is very likely that Zeus was an IE and no Pre-IE god.

    If you compare Zeus with Indra, Wotan/Thorburn or other IE gods its even more obvious.

    There might be still a small chance that he was not of IE origin but its very unlikely.
    So to assume that Zeus is in general an IE good is something you can say even without being an Pelasgian.

    For sure the Pre-IE had some influence as the pre-Aryan groups of India had some strong influence, maybe they even altered some characteristics of Zeus that way, but the initial form is IE.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Med's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Choice 3 comes closest to the truth, as most people recognized.

    Greeks were an even blend of Alpines, Dinarics and Mediterraneans (though the Minoans were purely Mediterranean). The Nordic element was always weak.

    Romans were predominantly Alpine-Dinaric, with Mediterranean elements as well as Nordic ones (though of the darker, hybridized Central European variety). The Etruscans were Mediterranean.

    Of course, modern Greeks and Italians are the direct descendents of their ancient ancestors, as genetic research indicates. Levels of recent admixture are extremely low, and the large Ancient Greek contribution to the Southern Italian gene pool, e.g., consistently shows up in DNA testing.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Vestmannr's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Everyone knows that I founded Ancient Greece and Rome, using the time machine I built with plans ripped off from the ancient wonderland of the Songhai Empire. I shot back in it to hang out with the mad-scientist Yacub, who made white folk in his lab by mixing Abominable Snowmen with Orangutans. While there, we had to fend of attacks by the Grey Aliens, who seeded Earth with the genetic material for the Great Med/Negro/Latino human race so we could build Ether antennas for them in Egypt and Greece. Back then, all real humans looked like Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes. Besides, Jesus and Socrates were Black, man! Fight the Power!



    (I'll go have a smoke now)

  5. #25
    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    Everyone knows that I founded Ancient Greece and Rome, using the time machine I built with plans ripped off from the ancient wonderland of the Songhai Empire. I shot back in it to hang out with the mad-scientist Yacub, who made white folk in his lab by mixing Abominable Snowmen with Orangutans. While there, we had to fend of attacks by the Grey Aliens, who seeded Earth with the genetic material for the Great Med/Negro/Latino human race so we could build Ether antennas for them in Egypt and Greece. Back then, all real humans looked like Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes. Besides, Jesus and Socrates were Black, man! Fight the Power!



    (I'll go have a smoke now)
    Oh no! It was YOU who killed my great-great-grandfather when he was a baby!


    PLOP!

    ( AWAR disappears due to temporal paradox )


  6. #26
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Celts, just celts. Sicilians and south Iberians are not the celts that established the acient Greek and Rome, coz they were mixed with turks and moslem from north africa.

  7. #27
    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueEyedDevil
    Celts, just celts. Sicilians and south Iberians are not the celts that established the acient Greek and Rome, coz they were mixed with turks and moslem from north africa.
    Actually... no. As medhammer already explained in the previous post.
    Celts were a component in the history of Europe, but not the founders of any classic civilization.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Vestmannr's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    I think the argument could be made (and has been made by Celtophile Peter Berresford Ellis) that Rome was a not very advanced, small, unremarkable city in conflict with the slightly more superior Etruscan folk until the remarkable happened. The remarkable event was a third party in the conflict, the Cisalpine Gauls of the Po river valley entering the fray. Through the process of war, truce, and assimilation the Cisalpine Gauls came to take a major role in the growing Roman state (at the same time the Etruscans were absorbed.) Rome really only takes off as a power at the time that these Gauls are given citizenship, and made indistinguishable from other Roman citizens. I know that the historian Fr. John Romanides, of the U. of Thessaloniki argued that the Romans were just a Greek colony that was "Gallicized", in any case their 'advancement' or high civilization only comes into being after their majority Gallicization, and their invasion of Iberia and the Provence. So far, I dont think anything beyond anecdote and slogans has been offered to show that Rome was that advanced.

    The criteria for advancement for many of those who argue is a little foggy as well: is it literacy? Societies with high levels of social and material technology have existed without literacy. Living in cities was a norm of Celtic/Gallic civilization, as well as amongst the Germans, Goths, Slavs, etc. They had stable socio-political identities. A stable, complex, and sophisticated system of law, governance, and religion. Even staunch classicists have admitted that as regards metallurgy, and other technologies (warfare, transportation, agriculture), that many of the non-Roman/non-Greek societies were far more advanced in many of these areas than their neighbours to the South and East. The only characteristic that I can think of that allowed the Romans to excel was flexibility, the ability to handle change (more or less without collapse). However, this same characteristic exists pretty much worldwide with many societies.

    What, indeed, makes Greece and Rome so special? I would argue it is only an importance of mnemesis. That specifically, it was the Christian communities (which were not entirely Roman, nor Greek as in Hellenic) that preserved the Classical memory, and later actually revived it, thus building it into a mythology beyond its actual form. Greece in its present place had little importance beyond the city states of Athens and Sparta. The real important history of Greece happens to the north, east, and south of Athens. By the time of the rise of Rome, Greece was absorbed into the Romaioi. Present Greek (Hellene) identity is a construct as well, based upon a political rejection of the Romaioi identity that the ancestors of the modern Greeks had been comfortable with for the past 1500-2000 years. Indeed, what the Greek Empire is remembered for is its later cosmopolitan years, and the same with Rome ... in the days it was ruled by Caesars of Illyrian, Slavic, Gallic, Basque, and Germanic blood. The problem comes for both those who identify with Italic Rome and Hellenic Greece proper: their sense of worth is based upon an idea of continuity. However, that continuity was broken at one point or the other : in the West by the Goths, Lombards, and finally by the Holy Roman Empire and the shift of power and civilization north and west. Or in the East by the Slavic and Bulgar invasions, the Turks and the long fall, and the depredations of Crusaders, Venetians, etc. The wholesale immigration from the Empire of the Romaioi to the West had an effect, as did the creation of the 'Rum Millet' under the Ottoman Turks. So, the most continuity that can be claimed is a tentative one centered around the Phanar and Mt. Athos. Again, for Greece the power (and civilization) moved north to Kiev, Novgorod, Moscow, Serbia, Moldavia, Wallachia, etc.

    So far, then, all the evidence seems to suggest to me that the actual 'Greeks' and 'Romans' did not build, but were rather taken on a ride of progress by their various invaders, the the peoples those invaders later conquered: Macedonians, Thracians, Illyrians, Dorians, Slavs, Germans, Goths, Normans, Vikings, Varangians, Celts, Gauls, Iberians, etc.

  9. #29
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    Actually... no. As medhammer already explained in the previous post.
    Celts were a component in the history of Europe, but not the founders of any classic civilization.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueEyedDevil
    Celts, just celts. Sicilians and south Iberians are not the celts that established the acient Greek and Rome, coz they were mixed with turks and moslem from north africa.
    Talk about temporal paradoxes!
    The dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa

  10. #30
    Member Vlad Cletus's Avatar
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    Post Re: Who Created Ancient Greece and Rome?

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    Illyrian is close to Albanian isn't it? Albanian is related to Indo-Iranian.
    It is, what's currently spoken today are direct derivatives of the Illyrian dialects spoken so long ago. The two main dialects are Tosk (South), and Gheg (North).

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