Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43

Thread: RuSHA Racial Criteria for ϟϟ and Germanization Candidates

  1. #11
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 07:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Nordid is the correct term, Nordic can be used for the geographical, political and ethnic designations too.

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=5454

    Yes, thank you Agrippa. I see where you got Nordid now. This is von Eickstedt's terminology. As a real scientist, his terminology should be seen as superior to that of McCulloch who was not a real scientist. McCulloch has used Coon's terms while stressing the unity of all UP derived Europeans. The uses the term Nordid for this super-sub-racial classification or perhaps he considered it a concept. In my mind, this is McCulloch's only real contribution. Many of our members have read McCulloch and apparently like him. We are talking about the translation of Nordisch to English. Nordid in McCulloch's terminology is not Nordisch but Nordic following Coon. If the word Nordid is used in English it may automatically reference McCulloch in the mind of English speakers as it did with me and not von Eickstedt.

    Nevertheless, I would be in favor of adopting von Eickstedt's terminology over McCulloch's. The German section certainly uses von Eickstedt and not McCulloch. Coon and von Eickstedt are not that dissimilar. Von Eickstedt's work is explained in English somewhere here at Skadi in fact I think it was a thread done by Agrippa. If we do away with McCulloch for sake of confusion, then I no objections to the used of Nordid in this situation since we are agreeing that it is part of von Eickstedt's classification.

  2. #12
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    I might add that v. Eickstedts terminology inspired some people to use the term "Nordish", since in many concepts Nordid in the wider sense includes Dalofaelid (Cromagnid, Bruenn), whereas Nordid in the narrower sense is Teutonordid (v. Eickstedt) or Skandonordid (Lundman), I prefer Skandonordid for some years already.

    The main problem comes with other forms which are clearly not even Nordid in the wider sense but just related or influenced. The most basic feature combination of Nordid is, to put it simple: Light, tall, long skulled.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  3. #13
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 07:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Something else comes to mind about this SS Racial card. I wish I had the ability to scan in images. It would be interesting to classify some SS bigwigs by their own system. For instance, Dr. Hans Kammler, one of my favorite SS men would come out very well but Otto Skorzeny, perhaps the most outstanding soldier in all of World War Two, wouldn't come out as well. He was a large man but had dark eyes and dark hair. It would be interesting to see his SS card. I wonder how Himmler would come out both in our re-classification of him and on his original SS card. There might be some differences. Reinhardt Heydrich would probably point up highly.

  4. #14
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Otto Skorzeny wouldnt have had too many problems in any case after this too, I already classified him by the way
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  5. #15
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 07:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    I might add that v. Eickstedts terminology inspired some people to use the term "Nordish", since in many concepts Nordid in the wider sense includes Dalofaelid (Cromagnid, Bruenn), whereas Nordid in the narrower sense is Teutonordid (v. Eickstedt) or Skandonordid (Lundman), I prefer Skandonordid for some years already.

    The main problem comes with other forms which are clearly not even Nordid in the wider sense but just related or influenced. The most basic feature combination of Nordid is, to put it simple: Light, tall, long skulled.
    This might be where I went wrong. McCulloch uses the word Nordish, not Nordid, right? His word Nordish is not Nordisch but what I wrongly said about Nordid. To von Eickstedt, Nordisch would be Nordid but Nordish didn't yet exist as a term since it was invented by McCulloch.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Willigut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 15th, 2009 @ 07:40 PM
    Subrace
    Megalithic Atlantomediterranid
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Nacionalsocijalista
    Posts
    78
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Agrippa, question: Is this the entrance evaluation for SS candidates?
    Nobody answered on this, so I will try to do it in brief lines.

    From the book: "Au Nom de la Race" by Marc Hillel/Clarissa Henry, Fayard, Paris, 1975.

    (In The Name of Race, Yugoslavian edition, Zagreb, 1976.)
    (http://www.autanlire.com/index.html?...4.html&lang=fr)

    By Heinrich Himmler's order "SS-Befehl - A - Nr. 65", from 31. decembar 1931. all SS marriage couples required Rassen-Kartei, certification paper from "Racial Bureau" (SS-Rassenamt).

    To quote this order:

    1. The SS is a formation of German men in the Nordic mold . . .

    2. In keeping with National Socialist ideology and cognizant that our national future depends upon the selection and preservation of racially and hereditarily good stock, I am introducing a "marriage permit" for all single members of the SS.

    3. The intended aim is (to produce) a valuable clan of German stock in the Nordic mound.

    4. The marriage permit will be granted or refused solely on grounds of race and hereditary health.

    5. Every SS man who intends to marry must obtain a marriage permit from the Reichsfuehrer-SS.

    6. SS members who marry notwithstanding the refusal of a marriage permit will be expelled from the SS . . .

    7. The relevant processing of marriage applications will be the task of the "Racial Bureau" of the SS.

    8. The Racial Bureau of the SS will keep the "Clan Book of the SS," in which the families of SS members will be entered after a marriage permit has been issued or a request for registration granted (Bleuel 1974: 265-266).

    From 27. July 1938. Rassen-Kartei, made by racial suitability examiners (SS-Eignungsprüfers), was obligatory for all SS and Police men. During WWII in the same was adding inset for Volksdeutsche people and to other Nordic-Germanic SS institutions:
    - Germaansche-SS in Vlaanderen
    - Germaansche-SS en Nederland
    - Germanske-SS Norge
    But Anthropological chart stayed the same and also racial criteria. For example: Flemish volunteers were considered "predominantly Nordic" and thus fit enough to volunteer for the Waffen-SS, whereas Walloons were not (pred. Alpine!); which is why the Walloon volunteer legion was assimilated at first by the German Army, not the SS.

    By April 1942 Waffen-SS was feeling the strain of massive casualties and the strain caused by the decline in "aryanness" of its troops. Strictly racial standards became superfluous and then banished; even when in February was created 7th SS-Freiwilligen-Gebirgs Division Prinz Eugen, consisted of Volksdeutsche Balkan volunteers. To the and of the War about 950.000 Waffen-SS uniforms wore: Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Byelorussians, Ukrainians, Cossaks, Turcs, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Indians etc.

    [See: Osprey - Men at Arms Series - Waffen-SS], also:
    http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=49
    http://www.feldgrau.com/ss.html


    During WWII all people in annexed territory to the Reich, have to be examined by RKF-DV Eignungsprüfers and have their own R-Kartei (kept in Staff Main Office), which would determined their suitability for Germanisation (see the first and second post). In "RuSHA Trial" 12 defendants were accused, among others things, for "Kidnapping Children of Foreign Nationalities". They were found not guilty for these charges, here is one short excerpt from the court transcript:

    These selection tests consisted primarily of racial and medical examinations. These were followed by analyses of the child's character, ability and psychological qualities. The racial tests were conducted by specialists (Eignungsprüfer) from the Main Office for Race and Settlement of the SS or sometimes, as in Lódz, by doctors from the health department. There were special forms for the tests which contained 62 points concerning the child's physique, shape and colour of the eyes, type of hair, etc. This detailed physical description of the child was used to establish its racial type. There were 11 racial types and two additional ones: negative and positive. The racial type having been established, the child was put into one of three categories:
    1. "Desirable natural increase" (erwünschter Bevölkerungszuwachs)
    2. "Tolerable natural increase" (tragbarer Bevölkerungszuwachs)
    3."Undesirable natural increase" (unerwünschter Bevölkerungszuwachs).
    It is easy to recognize and conect underline words with scanned pages linked in first post; 62 fields have to be inscribed plus profile number and two pictures.


    ...

  7. #17
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    This might be where I went wrong. McCulloch uses the word Nordish, not Nordid, right? His word Nordish is not Nordisch but what I wrongly said about Nordid. To von Eickstedt, Nordisch would be Nordid but Nordish didn't yet exist as a term since it was invented by McCulloch.
    Nordid in v. Eickstedt's terminology:
    Teutonordid (Skandonordid, Hallstatt or Göta) = Nordid in the narrower sense
    Fennonordid (~Eastnordid -sub-type)
    Dalofaelid (Cromagnid, Bruenn)

    "Nordish" could be best defined as Nordeuropid or Northern European - autochthonous types to Northern Europe. The problem is that, even if in minority, practically all types of Europe exist in Northern Europe in the wider sense - otherwise it would be just Scandinavia and even in Scandinavia at least North Mediterranids, 'Atlantid' occurs and types even further away from Nordid in all aspects (Palaeatlantid -Lundman's definition-, Eastbaltid and especially Lappid which is not even really fully European racially in my opinion).

    1. "Desirable natural increase" (erwünschter Bevölkerungszuwachs)
    2. "Tolerable natural increase" (tragbarer Bevölkerungszuwachs)
    3."Undesirable natural increase" (unerwünschter Bevölkerungszuwachs)
    Thats a good distinction. I would propose to use a similar system if its about the racial-biological background for Europe that way nowadays:
    1. Progressive European variants with desirable individual feature combinations, for Northern Europe Nordids preferred.
    2. Normal European variants and very progressive non-Europeans with very good individual feature combinations from related racial types (for individual exceptions).
    3. Europeans with very negative individual feature combinations, non-Europeans, non-integrable elements, especially those non-progressive types with negative individual feature combinations.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Willigut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 15th, 2009 @ 07:40 PM
    Subrace
    Megalithic Atlantomediterranid
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Nacionalsocijalista
    Posts
    78
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    Something else comes to mind about this SS Racial card. I wish I had the ability to scan in images. It would be interesting to classify some SS bigwigs by their own system. For instance, Dr. Hans Kammler, one of my favorite SS men would come out very well but Otto Skorzeny, perhaps the most outstanding soldier in all of World War Two, wouldn't come out as well. He was a large man but had dark eyes and dark hair. It would be interesting to see his SS card.
    Dark eyes and hair are not decisive anthropological requirements. As I stated above pigmentation of eyes and hair are only two (or even one) of basic nine categories; defined by B. K. Schulz. Lower limit is four for satisfaction if candidates prove "Nordic qualities" in their behavior. Also Allgemeine-SS received people who fit only I and II class of racial evaluation, those in III and IV were rejected (in theory!). By definition I group correspond with "pure" Nordid and Dalofaelid types which are pretty rare; for exemple in Lower Styria bellow 1% of total population. In group II are those of predominantly (Vorwiegend) Nordid/Faelid races, but also include half-breeds of I group and Dinarid or/and Mediterranid types. If you take in account mendelian genetic laws it is logical that darker pigmented man can pass in II (second) class. This is H. F. Gunther's description of hair in Nordic people:

    In men and women who are light blond in youth there is often a later darkening to dark blond, or even to dark brown hair. This last case is probably to be explained on the supposition that with such persons inherited Nordic tendencies in hair-colouring are overlaid later by tendencies other than Nordic.
    On the other side Bertil Lundman described Tavastid type of Baltid race, which is in average 170 cm tall (lower limit in SS is 171). So Baltid candidates can be easy blond, blue eyed and tall, but they belong to III racial class and are not in theory fit for membership in SS. They are predominantly Osteuropids (East Baltics).

    The Finnish Tavast tribe, dwelling in the middle of Finland, seems to be very strongly East Baltic, but with a Nordic admixture.
    Taken from: The Racial Elements in European History, Hans F. K. Günther, London, 1927.


    Reinhardt Heydrich would probably point up highly.
    I think too that tall, blond Noric type fit very well.

    We discuss in this thread only about two pages from the book "Rasse, Siedlung, deutsches Blut" Das Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt der SS und die rassenpolitische Neuordnung Europas by Isabell Heinemann.
    Many questions can be solving if anyone has this work?


    ...

  9. #19
    Senior Member Willigut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 15th, 2009 @ 07:40 PM
    Subrace
    Megalithic Atlantomediterranid
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Nacionalsocijalista
    Posts
    78
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    "Nordish" could be best defined as Nordeuropid or Northern European - autochthonous types to Northern Europe. The problem is that, even if in minority, practically all types of Europe exist in Northern Europe in the wider sense - otherwise it would be just Scandinavia and even in Scandinavia at least North Mediterranids, 'Atlantid' occurs and types even further away from Nordid in all aspects (Palaeatlantid -Lundman's definition-, Eastbaltid and especially Lappid which is not even really fully European racially in my opinion).
    I never really understand McCulloch's "Nordish Race concept".
    In his classification system Neo-Danubian Race is Nordish, originated by blending of ancient Danubian type and semi-Mongoloid Ladogans! But tall, long-headed, blue-eyed Atlanto-Mediterranean type (living on Western European coastal area) is not!?
    Also Borreby subrace is more Nordish then Noric. Maybe geographically but in this case Lappids must be also of Nordish Race…

  10. #20
    Progressive Collectivist
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Agrippa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, January 31st, 2011 @ 10:22 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Location
    Asgard
    Gender
    Politics
    Progressive Collectivist
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    6,968
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Re: SS Racial Card

    But tall, long-headed, blue-eyed Atlanto-Mediterranean type (living on Western European coastal area) is not!?
    Thats not really true, light Atlantomediterranids could fall into two 'Nordish' categories: Basically Nordatlantid or "Palaeatlantid" (TNP definition = 'Atlantid' to Atlantomediterranid), so definitely included, it would be absurd if not. Nordatlantid is in some schemes even Nordid in the narrower sense (beside Skandonordid and Eastnordid), so to not include types like Pierce Brosnan and to prefer Lappoid types would be a joke - but thats not the case.

    Norid/Noric is included in 'Peripheral Nordish" too and could be defined as a Nordid influenced Dinaroid ("Keltic Nordic" is the opposite) or (my and most common definition) light Dinaroid or light Dinaroid with Nordoid influence or going somewhat in a Nordoid direction.

    The definition you brought in from the historical perspective above is more oriented on directly related forms (by evolutionary tendency) and progressive and desirable individual feature combinations, European features rather than preferring forms which are assumed to be just autochthonoeous to Northern Europe. But there is an obvious overlap.

    To me, if somebody has very infantile-reduced characteristics AND bad individual traits, it doesnt make things that much better that this individual can prove that he is a descendent of the earlist Northern Europeans so to say. Thats like putting a nice label on a foul fruit - it won't taste better
    Thats the basic difference if looking for progressive traits and desirable features from the Eugenic perspective too, but I dont think too many people which defend the Nordish concept didnt understand that and there is no real contradiction anyway...
    So even if there are contradictions and weaknesses, its good to start with, for Scandinavia at least, since you must define in-out for that region which is finally the core area for the Nordid type. I would equate the core area with other areas though.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Friday, September 13th, 2019, 12:48 PM
  2. The Religion of the ϟϟ, by ϟϟ-Obergruppenführer Fritz Weitzel
    By ohrdruf in forum Indo-Germanic Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Thursday, December 8th, 2011, 07:05 AM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: Monday, August 24th, 2009, 12:13 AM
  4. The ϟϟ-WVHA and the Ideology of ϟϟ Bureaucrats
    By Ahnenerbe in forum Modern Age & Contemporary History
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, May 3rd, 2009, 08:01 PM
  5. Racial Criterias in Allgemeine-ϟϟ
    By Willigut in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Monday, March 28th, 2005, 09:09 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •