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Thread: What Does it Mean to be American?

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deling
    TUOR:

    SZACSI:
    "I'm not american, and I hate the jewish "american" leaders. But I love america although. Why? Many cause. So, if I see my great country, and the USA, then I see, what here communist terror now."

    Many studies show that the former communist European nations often have an utopian view of America, not at all realistic. One reason for this is said to be the former Communist propaganda in these nations, portayiing America as utterly evil, which creates illusions that it's really the otherwise. In Communist-occupied Europe, people did understand the Soviet version of new-speak, where 'Pravda' was something far from the truth. Today, there also seem to be an American idealisation in former Communist Europe: Whole Balticum, Poland, Czech, Slovakia and Hungary is more keen joining NATO than EU. But soon these illusions of America as a civilisation of unlimited freedoms will perish, I truly hope.

    "There is not. Here the government and police ban often marches. There not. Here no freespeech about jews, gipsies, commies. There is freespeech."

    I don't believe this is really true. Freespeech yankee-style could rather be defined as New-speak Orwell-style.

    "In the USA, who fight back to a criminal, that person is hero. There, if peoples saying"

    From what I've heard once, a burglar roobing a house accidently slipped and was penetrated by a carelessly put knife in the kitchen, and because of this the burglar was freed from charges and the house-owner convicted. Truth or not; I don't know.

    "So, I think USA meaning now more freedom."

    Freedom is just a used cliché without meaning. American freedom is freedom to consume products, grow fat, be promiscous, doing plastic operations and freedom=money. I prefer national freedom then, a nation where society is at peace; great Hungary could be such a nation, America cannot.
    Yep, I need to learn more about the USA. I just have more friends there, whose are Hungarians really. And sure, my GF is American, so she can to say, what is the difference there and here, because she was here too.

    That is same, what here communist power and there jewish power, what is mostly same. But here when something march -what is not banned- then often police smash the peoples. The government command to the police and the police smashing patriots, old peoples, childs, everybody, who has Nationalist feelings and against this commie government. So, that is not in the US, there marches are allowed, and if nothing bad happening, then the police not smash the peoples...

    Yes, I did said "more freespeech" and not fully freespeech. I did write there think about Matt Hale. And David Duke. And few more peoples. But if you see here and there... so here really everything is banned. If you say something really radical, then you can to get 3 years prison...

    Any months ago was, what a robber went to rob a house. There did live an old man and his family. The old man was hunter. The robber did tell to the old man with a pistol. Then the old man got his rifle, and did shot into the robber's azz. This maybe sounds funny, but the old man had big problems because this, because the police bothered him, and he needed to fear, what the police take him into prison...

    And for last. Here a comedian said:.
    - What is the freedom? A statue in NewYork...

    He was right.

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    SZACSI:

    "Yep, I need to learn more about the USA. I just have more friends there, whose are Hungarians really. And sure, my GF is American, so she can to say, what is the difference there and here, because she was here too."

    I can understand that, but I think to judge America's freedom versus Hungary's that David Duke can release his books (through inofficial or smaller publishing firms, I suppose) in U.S, and that Mein Kampf is forbidden in Hungary, is not a convincing way to compare these nations.

    "That is same, what here communist power and there jewish power, what is mostly same."

    Does the Communists still rule Hungary? Is it like in Russia, where the former Reds has shifted shapes (to blue)? I believed that Hungary was ruled by anti-Communist neo-liberal and (to the name) conservative parties. What about MIEP by the way? Are they making progress?

    "But here when something march -what is not banned- then often police smash the peoples. The government command to the police and the police smashing patriots, old peoples, childs, everybody, who has Nationalist feelings and against this commie government. So, that is not in the US, there marches are allowed, and if nothing bad happening, then the police not smash the peoples..."

    I understand this too, but demonstration freedoms aren't precisely unrestricted in U.S either. And that ones own government suck, doesn't mean one have to love America. What America has to offer European nations, is 'freedom' and 'democracy', which really is the opposite of these things. It just means more neo-liberalism, oligarch governments and Zionist-loving of that kind your government expresses, when building Holocaust Museums and shit like that.

    "Yes, I did said "more freespeech" and not fully freespeech. I did write there think about Matt Hale. And David Duke. And few more peoples. But if you see here and there... so here really everything is banned. If you say something really radical, then you can to get 3 years prison..."

    What I know, many American radicals go to jail pretty easily for long time when saying things: Ernst Zundel and other patriots, a.e. Or not to mention the American government's murdering of David Koresh and his cultists..

    "And for last. Here a comedian said:.
    - What is the freedom? A statue in NewYork...

    He was right."


    He indeed was. American freedom is just to the name, I guessed he implied.

    ELISTARIEL:

    "America is the result of many cultures merging. America, as a culture did not pop out of thin air. If we surrendered the identities of our ancestors, we would have ceased to exist long ago. Just because we have assimilated to create new culture does not mean we have surrendered."

    Of course not America popped out of thin air, I understand that. America assimilated men and women from all over the world who wanted to forge a new world with ideals of 'freedom'. America is the sum of all possible identities all over the world, forged into a new, American one. If this isn't true; then why is it that Americans fail so miserably to understand other cultures? Why doesn't America understand Europe, Russia, the Middle East, the Far East...? If Americans still had their native identities, they would understand the world, and the world would be more peaceful. But Americans' identities are no longer its different native ones, but an adapted and commersialised/simplified version of this. Americans' identities are more like a Chosen People's, believing their own mass culture is good, that American-style democracy is good, that the American freedoms are utilitaristically great; and that these things should be exported: "Why doesn't the world understand us!?! We just want to do good, not harm!! Here, little camel jockey; have a coke!".

    Americans are totally rootless, and has lost all real contact with its origins. Then there are a minority of Americans, still in touch with their heritage. If these people, including you I presume, managed to give America another face, one that would be very un-American but based on the original heritage, I would be the first to cherrish. But this is impossible. America is a dead civilisation, which will go down the same road as another Chosen People...

  3. #33
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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deling
    SZACSI:

    "Yep, I need to learn more about the USA. I just have more friends there, whose are Hungarians really. And sure, my GF is American, so she can to say, what is the difference there and here, because she was here too."

    I can understand that, but I think to judge America's freedom versus Hungary's that David Duke can release his books (through inofficial or smaller publishing firms, I suppose) in U.S, and that Mein Kampf is forbidden in Hungary, is not a convincing way to compare these nations.

    "That is same, what here communist power and there jewish power, what is mostly same."

    Does the Communists still rule Hungary? Is it like in Russia, where the former Reds has shifted shapes (to blue)? I believed that Hungary was ruled by anti-Communist neo-liberal and (to the name) conservative parties. What about MIEP by the way? Are they making progress?

    "But here when something march -what is not banned- then often police smash the peoples. The government command to the police and the police smashing patriots, old peoples, childs, everybody, who has Nationalist feelings and against this commie government. So, that is not in the US, there marches are allowed, and if nothing bad happening, then the police not smash the peoples..."

    I understand this too, but demonstration freedoms aren't precisely unrestricted in U.S either. And that ones own government suck, doesn't mean one have to love America. What America has to offer European nations, is 'freedom' and 'democracy', which really is the opposite of these things. It just means more neo-liberalism, oligarch governments and Zionist-loving of that kind your government expresses, when building Holocaust Museums and shit like that.

    "Yes, I did said "more freespeech" and not fully freespeech. I did write there think about Matt Hale. And David Duke. And few more peoples. But if you see here and there... so here really everything is banned. If you say something really radical, then you can to get 3 years prison..."

    What I know, many American radicals go to jail pretty easily for long time when saying things: Ernst Zundel and other patriots, a.e. Or not to mention the American government's murdering of David Koresh and his cultists..

    "And for last. Here a comedian said:.
    - What is the freedom? A statue in NewYork...

    He was right."


    He indeed was. American freedom is just to the name, I guessed he implied.
    Yes. Soviets went out of the country in 1990. Before '90 the leader party was the communist MSzMP party. But the commie leaders after '90 still here, just they changed their MSzMP name to MSzP. Not too big change. They won the party polls in 1994. Now they won again, although was so suspicious, what they did cheat. Was a protest against their cheat, there the police smashed many peoples. They smashed young patriots and old patriot peoples too. This is here the "freedom".
    The president between '94-'98 was Gyula Horn, a jewish communist, who killed many Hungarians in the 1956 revolution, when the Hungarian started to fight against the soviet communists.
    Now the president is the communist secret agent, who worked for the communist soviet system, traited the country then and nowatimes too. He drunk with the romanian president, when the whole country is cried because the anti-Hungarian romanian-terror.

    In the parliament now the leader MSzP commie party. Their pals, the SzDSz jewish party. The Fidesz, what is better, but there many jewish. And the MDF, what is maybe ok, but not too good, and they are weak.

    MIÉP. They are not in the government, was something cheats in the polls (what about I did talk), and they are fallen out. They did not get the 5% of the votes.
    The peoples wanted re-count the party-poll papers, but the communist MSzP party burned the papers. So, no proof now for their cheat...

    Now was another action, 4 young went to the parliament, and they dropped there 500 papers, "out from Iraq!" papers. Maybe they are in trouble now. 88% (now was a poll in the TV) agree with the youngs, but the system not, so the police catched them...

  4. #34
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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    I hate what America has become. The America that I knew and loved is dead. Only a few of us are left.
    I see your point, but I also disagree.
    You hate what Hollywood and International media proclaims America to be. Aye, I hate it as well. However, the true America, which is the one I see every day, is not wholly like the one that international media and Hollywood proclaims it to be.

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    I found what I was looking for. Earnest Albert Hooton (Coon's predecessor at Harvard) had done studies on the racial makeup of Americans, and attempted a classification system.

    I'll quote what little I found from 'Apes, Men, and Morons' from 1937. If you want more information, I can provide some.

    His classification of American Whites is that individuals depending on being Old American, 2nd-3rd gen. Immigrants, or Foreign born classified in the following European or American hybrid groups:

    "1. The Pure Nordic type of pure blond long-heads.
    2. The Pure Mediterranean type of pure brunet long-heads.
    3. The Predominantly Nordic type of near blond long-heads.
    4. The Keltic type of long-heads with disharmonic pigment combinations.
    5. The mixed Nordic Mediterranean type of long-heads with intermediate but darkish pigmentation.
    6. The East Baltic type of pure blond round-heads with medium to broad noses.
    7. The Alpine type of pure brunet round-heads with medium to broad noses.
    8. The mixed Nordic Alpine type of round-heads with intermediate but lightish pigmentation, and medium to broad noses.
    9. The mixed Dinaric type of round-heads with intermediate pigmentation and narrow noses."

    And, "The proportions of the nine racial types in the three series -- criminal, civilian check sample, and Century of Progress visitors -- are extraordinarily similar."

    He said that the mixed Nordic-Mediterranean type was the 'ranking type' with 25% of the American population, excessively represented in the states of KY and NC, somewhat deficient in TN, WI, and NM and seemed to have a pretty fair distribution thoughout the States, with a 'possible excess' in the South Atlantic states. He says "It seems to be a predominantly British type" and mostly Old American , so I am guessing it is a North Atlantid mixed with Nordic, which is why America seems to have many long-headed, blonde haired, but brown eyed individuals.

    The second ranking type was the Nordic-Alpine type, with about 23% of the American population. He notes it being strongest in MA, and deficient in KY. Excesses seem to be in TX, WI, and TN (areas with strong German immigrant populations from Bavaria, Palatinate, or Rhineland ... mostly Miners.) Otherwise, he suggests it is also found throughout America, but with 'slightly excess strength' in the East North Central and Mid-Atlantic states. He noted that this type was linked with foreign parentage, and 'markedly deficient' amongst Old Americans and Scandinavians, but in excess with those of 'Polish-Austrian, Russian, Teutonic, French, and Jewish birth or parentage.'

    Third ranking type is the 'Predominantly Nordic' with 17% of the American population. This type is primarily Old American, and he considered it 'unknown' amongst the foreign born. This type was "especially strong" in KY, TN, NC, NM, CO, and AZ but deficient in MA and WI. The data from Century of Progress had it strongest in the West North Central district of the country. Of the Old Americans, this type was in excess amongst those of English and Welsh descent. "It is notably deficient in French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Polish-Austrian, Balkan, Russian, Asia Minor and Jewish elements." - all new immigrant/foreign born groups. For recent immigrants who were of this type, he noted they were predominantly Scandinavian, English, Welsh, and British Canadian.

    The fourth ranking type is the Dinaric, at 13.3% of the population. The type is 'markedly deficient in native Whites of native parentage" but excess in the recent immigrant groups and their descendants. States with excess representation are MA and WI, with the type being rare in KY, TN, and NC. Strongest in the East North Central district, and to a lesser extent the Mid-Atlantic states. He noted they were primarily of Polish-Austrian, Teutonic, French Canadian, Scotch, and Asia Minor birth or parentage.. and the type was very rare in Old American males. He also says "It is a rather composite type which perhaps ought to be broken up into subtypes, but it has a certain physical and sociological unity, none the less."

    The fifth ranking type is the Keltic, at 8.48% of the male population. This type was more common in his criminal samples than the civilian check samples, is in excess amongst Old Americans, "less conspicuous and proportionally deficient in the native Whites of foreign parentage, and decidedly rare among the foreign born Whites." The type is "outstandingly present" in KY, and NC and "significantly rare" in TN and TX. The type is strongest in the South Atlantic district, and the East South Central district (IOW, the Old South), as well as New England. Of the criminal sample, Irish were most of this type, as well as some Scandinavians. The civilian population was mostly Old Americans, English, Irish, Welsh, British Canadians, and Scandinavians.

    The sixth ranking type is pure Mediterranean, with 4.38% of the total. This type is deficient amongst Old Americans, and "in excess in the foreign born." Most often found in MA, CO, and NM. Deficient in KY, TN, NC, and TX. Strong areas for the type are the Mid-Atlantic, and East North Central. Rarest in West North Central district. Most are of Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian ancestry from the criminal series, but the type is deficient amongst Polish-Austrians and Old Americans. The civilian check sample had very few of Spanish or Italian origin, and rather had pure Meds from a "wide variety of European descents."

    East Baltic type ranked seventh, at 3.02% of the population. "Strongly represented amongst civilian series rather than criminals." Amongst the criminals, it is mostly Old American and first gen. American and deficient amongst the foreign born. Amongst civilians it was the exact opposite. Type is strong in MA, TN, TX, and CO but poorly represented in the other states tested. Most common in East North Central, and possibly Pacific and Mountain districts. An excess in the criminal series of Russian and Polish-Austrian descent, deficient amongst Italians. In the civilian population, mostly Teutonic and Polish-Austrian descent.

    Alpine type ranks eighth, at 2.68% Most poorly represented amongst all Old Americans. Stronger amongst native Whites of foreign ancestry, and strongest amongst foreign born. "Of all racial types it is the least characteristically American." Amongst criminals, "excessively numerous" in MA, WI, NM, and CO. Rare amongst criminals of KY, TN, and NC. East North Central and West North Central had the excesses of this type in the civilian series. Greatest excess of this type in those of Italian birth amongst the criminals, but also strong with those of French Canadian, Balkan, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish-Austrian, and Asia Minor extraction. In the Boston series of civilians, it was strongest amongst Near Eastern descent. (I would note that the Asia Minor/Near Eastern folks at this time in the US were almost entirely Greeks and Christian Lebanese/Syrians.)

    "Pure Nordic is the scarcest of all types in the combined series here studied with but 2.44% of the total." Less common among criminals than civilians (twice as numerous in civilian populations.) In the criminal series, it is strong in Old Americans and first generation. In the Boston check sample, somewhat deficient in Old Americans but strongest in first generation Americans. In Century of Progress series, strongest in the West North Central Region. Amongst criminals, showed the greatest excess with British Canadians and the strongest deficiency amongst Italians. In the civilian series, "strongly British Canadian and markedly Scandinavian, but still more strongly Old American."

    I can quote more if anyone is interested. Be nice to do a new study along these lines.

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    The same Hooton who wanted to exterminate all Germans after WW2.

    Which such genocidal nuts still being looked up to today I feel perfectly justified in my opinion that Americans are scum. Yankees, southerners, white Americans, Hispanics, Jews, negroes, Asians and whoever else keeps that country going: they are all scum.
    And all my youth passed by sad-hearted,
    the joy of Spring was never mine;
    Autumn blows through me dread of parting,
    and my heart dreams and longs to die.

    - Nikolaus Lenau (1802-1850)

    Real misanthropes are not found in solitude, but in the world; since it is experience of life, and not philosophy, which produces real hatred of mankind.

    - Giacomo Leopardi (1798-1837)

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    "The same Hooton who wanted to exterminate all Germans after WW2."

    I wouldnt know. He was all for sterilization for many classes of folk, and hated war veterans with a passion (considered them to be like panhandlers.) I dont think that makes his collection of data without validity. So far as I know, it is the best we have ... though it does need to be replaced with a newer, more complete study. I thought about posting Coon's feelings on the subject, but since it seems some would rather politicize this thread than discuss it objectively, I dont see any use.

    "Which such genocidal nuts still being looked up to today I feel perfectly justified in my opinion that Americans are scum. Yankees, southerners, white Americans, Hispanics, Jews, negroes, Asians and whoever else keeps that country going: they are all scum."

    LOL, he was difficult to find, and much of what he says this American finds offensive, as would most Americans. Anyways, what is wrong with genocide? It was never considered a 'crime' until this past century. I tend to think a little eugenic genocide isnt necessarily a bad thing. I'd be a hypocrite otherwise, as I'm the benefiter of some tens of thousands of years of genocide... my ancestors killed off the Neanderthals, killed off a good number of Native American tribes as well. Call me scum if you will ... it wont make it true

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    It must be possible to make some conclusions from the immigration from European nations.

    Immigration to USA, 1820-1996:

    All countries 63,140,227
    Germany 7,142,393
    Mexico 5,542,625
    Italy 5,427,298
    United Kingdom 5,225,701
    Ireland 4,778,159
    Canada 4,423,066
    Soviet Union 3,752,811
    Austria 1,841,068
    Hungary 1,673,579
    Philippines 1,379,403

    [ source: USCIS ]

    Over here (Sweden) they say 1,3 Million emigrated to the United States before 1930.

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    Sounds right, plus you can remember that there was already several millions here before those immigrations: about 5 million white Southerners before the War of Southern Independence, and five to eight times that amount of white Northerners.

    David Hackett Fisher in "Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America" covers the original settlers before those waves of immigration (from 1600-1776 basically.) The Canadians and British needed little to no assmiliation, the Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, and Irish assimilated after a few generations. Other groups are still in that process: most of the Russians and Ukrainians are more recent immigrants, and the Italians and Mexicans have largely stayed in their own communities as well except in certain areas (most of those of mixed-Italian parentage seem to be from the Northeast, and most of mixed-Mexican parentage from California.)

    What Hooton noticed, I think Coon picked up on. I think eventually in America we will see two trends: new stabilized blends, and reemergence of antique phenotypes. That Nordic-Mediterranean of Hooton's terminology I tend to think of as something uniquely American. I'd have to say in my own upbringing, most I saw would fit better in that category, the Predominantly Nordic, and Keltic classifications. Hootons categories, however, seem to be based mostly on coloration and then on cephalic index. Generally unhelpful categorizations. Even the figures posted above cannot give us the full picture: Germany may be less Alpine today, for instance, if the German immigration to America was comprised of more of the Alpines in Germany (hypothetical example). Those from Hungary could just as well have been German or Slavic minorities in the Hungarian territory (esp. when considering the changes of borders and migrations of peoples between 1820 and 1996 in Europe.)

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    Post Re: What Does it Mean to be American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    What Hooton noticed, I think Coon picked up on. I think eventually in America we will see two trends: new stabilized blends, and reemergence of antique phenotypes.
    Eventually as in when? America is degrading every generation. They predict by 2050 whites will be a minority. Of course their estimation of "white" is very ambiguous and more than it realistically is. When you exclude all the nonEuropean "whites", and mixed-race "whites", then you get a significantly lower number. The only trend we're going towards is a mixed race one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    That Nordic-Mediterranean of Hooton's terminology I tend to think of as something uniquely American. I'd have to say in my own upbringing, most I saw would fit better in that category, the Predominantly Nordic, and Keltic classifications. Hootons categories, however, seem to be based mostly on coloration and then on cephalic index. Generally unhelpful categorizations. Even the figures posted above cannot give us the full picture: Germany may be less Alpine today, for instance, if the German immigration to America was comprised of more of the Alpines in Germany (hypothetical example). Those from Hungary could just as well have been German or Slavic minorities in the Hungarian territory (esp. when considering the changes of borders and migrations of peoples between 1820 and 1996 in Europe.)
    I have a feeling that a lot of his Mediterraneans were brownhaired Nordics, and a lot of the Alpines are UP.

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