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Thread: 1/4 American Women Childless, but Still Higher Birthrate Than Europe

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deary View Post
    The women I have known put aside their jobs to live by the income of their husbands, not to hide, but because they understood the importance of their presence during their marriage and young child's life.
    Women who can't find fulfillment in a family are gene junk anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by aus_princess View Post
    ok the simple fact of the matter is, i have a f***ing masters degree, and i did not study at the world BEST universities for 8 years to simply to give up my dreams of a fulfilling career for a child, or worse yet, a man!
    http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...1&postcount=32
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Telling Aus-Princess to just find a man who won't leave her is like telling her to develop psychic abilities. It would be wonderful if a man would tell you he's a complete jerk before you got involved with him. My father left me and my mother when I was three years old, and we lived in dire poverty. He was in the position to help us out financially after he left, but just didn't give a hoot about us. I can relate to the fear of getting involved with and maybe even marrying a horrible man who you thought was Mr. Right, at first. Also, it would be unfair to bring children into a marriage or relationship that isn't stable.
    In my opinion, the lower birthrate in the West can be attributed to changes in society's attitudes regarding the interaction of young men and women around eighty years ago. According to a documentary I was watching on sexuality, dating and choosing one's marital partner is a relatively new concept that came about in the 1920's. From what I understand, marriages were more or less arranged back then, and people were under much more pressure to stay in them. Another thing, contraception wasn't anything like it is today back then,so you had tons of children. When people started dating, they must have felt freer to have premarital sex, and that very likely led to the demand and creation of more effective contraceptives which decreased the birthrate.
    In my opinion(here I go again), the pill gave women a different outlook on their lives since they new they wouldn't have to put their aspirations on hold anymore to take care of families, if they didn't want to. That led many women to put off having children, or not have them at all. Up until that time women never really had a choice in the matter.
    I get the sense that today's generation of Western women are being unduly blamed for the declining birthrate. This problem has it's roots in the shift in society's attitudes almost a century ago, and now we are experiencing it's cumulative effect.
    Since I am an only child, I wouldn't have a brother or sister to lean on if I ended up a single mother in some sort of hardship(I am childless). There are probably other women who can say the same. When you have children, you want what's best for them, and if you feel you can't give children a decent life, you shouldn't have them. Raising children isn't inexpensive. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. Increasing the number of whites in Western countries is a good idea, because we are being out bred by other people who are immigrating to our lands. Yet before a Westerner decides to have more children to increase our numbers, they should be practical. They should take their circumstances into account.

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    NOBODY is saying that they are not taking fulfillment in having a family, we are on the other hand, debating the order of priorities in the life of women in today's society.
    Last edited by Patrioten; Sunday, September 7th, 2008 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Removed ad-hominem.

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    Senior Member Kreis AnnA's Avatar
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    I postponed having children till after I got my degree. But instead of going into the workforce I chose motherhood and continued with education as my children grew. But first and foremost, I was lucky in love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreis AnnA View Post
    I postponed having children till after I got my degree. But instead of going into the workforce I chose motherhood and continued with education as my children grew. But first and foremost, I was lucky in love.

    that is wonderful Kreis Anna, and if given the opportunity 10 years ago, i probably would have done the same, but you have to work with what you've got, and i, like most people are just trying to make the most of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    Telling Aus-Princess to just find a man who won't leave her is like telling her to develop psychic abilities. It would be wonderful if a man would tell you he's a complete jerk before you got involved with him.
    A woman shouldn't be so naive as to think she could judge a man, better she asks another man for advice who is capable of staying with his wife (in healthy cases the father, but any would do better than the woman herself).

    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    From what I understand, marriages were more or less arranged back then, and people were under much more pressure to stay in them.
    Marriage is a vow, sticking to your word is a question of honor, and ideally is even state law (law of contract), feminist bitched all day about not getting out of marriage, and now they are bitching about not getting anyone to stick with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    When people started dating, they must have felt freer to have premarital sex, and that very likely led to the demand and creation of more effective contraceptives which decreased the birthrate.
    As a side note in e.g. the Frisian society, premarital sex with the potential partner was encouraged, and demanded, and only when the woman got pregnant the man was allowed to marry her (and vice versa) because a union which could not result in children was a waste of resources.
    However it is true that contraception only increased irresponsible behavior, and should thus be forbidden (natural contraception, like the symptothermal method, excluded), or should only be available to couples who already have at least three children.

    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    I get the sense that today's generation of Western women are being unduly blamed for the declining birthrate. This problem has it's roots in the shift in society's attitudes almost a century ago, and now we are experiencing it's cumulative effect.
    Who blames them for this here? Blame and guilt has nothing to do with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    When you have children, you want what's best for them, and if you feel you can't give children a decent life, you shouldn't have them.
    There is a difference whether you are consciously deciding against children because of your selfishness, or whether you really can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    Yet before a Westerner decides to have more children to increase our numbers, they should be practical. They should take their circumstances into account.
    So when is a situation practical? Obviously after your logic, you can never count on your husband, so how much savings before the first child can be born and live a potential fatherless life?

    Quote Originally Posted by aus_princess View Post
    NOBODY is saying that they are not taking fulfillment in having a family, we are on the other hand, debating the order of priorities in the life of women in today's society.
    If you give your career the primary priority, then your children will suffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by aus_princess View Post
    If you think that me having an education and a career AND wanting a family is feminist then perhaps you are the missing-link neanderthal/cro-magnon scientists having been looking for.
    Of course it is feminist, you want to replace the man in your family.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by aus_princess View Post
    NOBODY is saying that they are not taking fulfillment in having a family, we are on the other hand, debating the order of priorities in the life of women in today's society. If you think that me having an education and a career AND wanting a family is feminist then perhaps you are the missing-link neanderthal/cro-magnon scientists having been looking for. good luck with that!
    You wish to keep your career when you are married with children even when you don't have to. Already you have made it a priority above motherhood. Having a career is demanding. You will likely have no choice but to spend more of your time at the office than with your family. Many wives and mothers with careers of their own are forced to send their children to daycare centers. Strangers raise their children more than they do. They don't have the opportunity to cook for their family and give them all the things in life money can't buy. They often can't be around when they are needed most. There are painful repercussions when women cling to their careers. Family goes on the backburner, and our society fails to function. As the studies indicate, the idea that women can have it all has proven disaterous.

  8. #28
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    Starting a family today is indeed a gamble. The social norms and family values of yesterday are gone, the sense of duty and purpose that used to make up the foundation of fatherhood/motherhood in the past, has in today's society to a large degree vanished and been replaced by family defeatism and sheer selfishness.

    Our traditional moral fibres, our values and our social order, has been thrown on top of the ever growing scrapheap of history, together with the rest of our traditions and heritage, and it's the kids today that pay the price for the selfishness and immaturity of the generations that followed in the wake of the 60s cult of the individual, and doctrines of cultural marxism.

    Strong, healthy families require a strong and healthy society. Likewise, a strong and healthy society requires strong and healthy families. The institution of family has in western society been undermined and weakened by forces bent on destroying the traditional social order, and when the families crumble, so does everything else in our society. The family is the bedrock on which society rests. In our time, this bedrock has been cracked and smashed to pieces, and we all suffer for it. The kids suffer the most however, but their parents are too caught up with themselves and their own needs to notice this, or even care enough, to protect their children from the harm that they inflict on them when their family falls apart infront of their eyes.

    As I've said in the past, people today want all the rights in this world, but no duties to go along with them. And as long as this attitude continues to roam free in our society, it will continue to devastate our families, our communities and our nations. We are already suffering because of this, and future generations will suffer even more as our increasingly destructive and anti-human lifestyles are passed down to the next generation. The heritage that our children stand to inherit is nothing short of poisonous in its present form, and if we don't actively try to achieve a ressurection of our own heritage, of our roots, and in so doing return to a traditional understanding of what it means to be a father, of what it means to be a mother, of what it means to be a family and of what it means to be a community, there is little hope for us and our children.

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    I think there is 1,000 ways a women can work and still have children, and a husband. Yes, it is very important to probably stay home with infants, but ya know...kids can start Pre-K or Head Start here at about 4 years old. So, its not like kids are always gonna be babies. That gives plenty hours in the day for a job or part time job. ( or school )

    Here's the key thing though, no, you can't be a workaholic and a hand's on dedicated mom all the time, but you can find balance in a job, from making something homemade and maybe selling it to, a home based job, to being a teacher. We as men and women have many opportunities now and some people find that to be wonderful. They want to live.

    Another thing, women don't always fall in love with men who went to college and can support them on their own, considering today's prices and the price of children. ( doesn't necessarily make him a bad man, either ) he could be a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. Some people also find comfort in money matters, having plenty of, being prepared...as well feel the things they have and can give their children with money is more important than time.

    Some here seem like life has always handed them cookies...if so, it will change. We are just simply going to and will always do what we gotta do.
    "We've become a nation of strangers. There seems to be very little in common to bond us to our fellow Americans outside of our immediate families,some don't even have that to fall back on."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Lyfing View Post
    I think there is 1,000 ways a women can work and still have children, and a husband. Yes, it is very important to probably stay home with infants, but ya know...kids can start Pre-K or Head Start here at about 4 years old. So, its not like kids are always gonna be babies. That gives plenty hours in the day for a job or part time job. ( or school )

    Here's the key thing though, no, you can't be a workaholic and a hand's on dedicated mom all the time, but you can find balance in a job, from making something homemade and maybe selling it to, a home based job, to being a teacher. We as men and women have many opportunities now and some people find that to be wonderful. They want to live.

    Another thing, women don't always fall in love with men who went to college and can support them on their own, considering today's prices and the price of children. ( doesn't necessarily make him a bad man, either ) he could be a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. Some people also find comfort in money matters, having plenty of, being prepared...as well feel the things they have and can give their children with money is more important than time.

    Some here seem like life has always handed them cookies...if so, it will change. We are just simply going to and will always do what we gotta do.
    The functioning family TM is not a product of materialism. Materialism alone does not make for a strong and well-functioning family. We are richer and materially more well-off than we have ever been on average, but our families are more unstable than ever before. Materialism does not equal family bliss.

    You can have 10 years worth of wages on your bank account, it still wont insure you from a family collapse. For a family to stay together and remain strong, you need will-power, determination and values. Close family bonds is a plus, so is strong bonds with the extended family.

    We were indeed handed alot of cookies compared to our grandparents and great grandparents and so forth, but although cookies may be sweet and tasty, they don't contain much nutrition. Nutrition comes in the shape of good role models, good values, sound expectations and demands, that's the stuff that makes one grow and mature.

    We also have the problem of people having expectations on life that cannot possibly be met, and who when they realize this, lose all sense of purpose and meaning whilst having nothing to fall back on, nothing which is so innately human that virtually anyone can strive to achieve it and find purpose and meaning in realizing it. We have come so far so fast from the reality of our ancestors, of barely getting by, that we are now losing our perspective on things. Starting a family, providing for yourself and your family, living in your own home in a safe and friendly neighborhood, sending your kids to an orderly school, socializing with friends and relatives, living a normal life, it simply isn't enough anymore. But what do we want instead? We can't all be celebrities and bathe in money. The majority of us wont, myself included. We must be able to find purpose in a life which is available to us, for else we shall wander the earth in agony for the rest of our lives. Accepting your fate is a virtue that our ancestors believed in and lived by. Religious or not, it helped them cope with reality. When you accept the hand you have been dealt, and the limitations of your existence, you can start to live a fulfilled life and find purpose in it.

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