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Thread: Medical Policy Regarding Eugenics and Disability?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    Seeing as National Socialism is about as popular as a fart in a space suit we should expect any national socialist leadership to be highly totalitarian then shouldn't we ?
    Nope, because the masses change their support like a leaf in the wind, better put, the masses can be made to change to support anything
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Nope, because the masses change their support like a leaf in the wind, better put, the masses can be made to change to support anything
    I agree that the majority of people can be swayed with propaganda , however , the stigmas ( which I believe are merited ) associated with National Socialism present a real problem and it would have to involve mass full frontal lobotomy for even the masses to support it.

    Besides there has been a slow but steady movement against rule by hierarchal tyrranies , of which National Socialism would qualify imo , throughout the course of history.

    I don't see too many signs of that changing which further removes the chance of any elitist ideology from enjoying genuine popular support.

    The BNP is a good example , even most of their supporters would not support National Socialist policies and any talk of eugenics would be met with genuine horror by the majority.

    You would have to resort to totalitarian tyrrany to control your own supporters let alone the opposition which even now , in the lapse of political culture amongst the masses , enjoys more support.

    But if ya wish to stay in Dreamsville be my guest.............. just don't be sad in old age because it never happened
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    You mean letting some of them live as test animals?
    What I mean is studying rare disease & deformity has given new information about human development and this info can be applied to curing other more common diseases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    So I take you agree, that there shouldn't be medical help of the state for the retards?
    If a couple brings an extreme case of retarded/deformed child into the world, it should be their responsibility alone to care for the child, because what they have done is selfish.

    The future of eugenics will move away from euthanization or withholding treatment and more toward genetic testing and prevention. The state should pay for preventive care, such as genetic testing of people who cannot afford it.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    I agree that the majority of people can be swayed with propaganda , however , the stigmas ( which I believe are merited ) associated with National Socialism present a real problem and it would have to involve mass full frontal lobotomy for even the masses to support it.
    It is a problem, but none that we couldn't solve, the trick is to sell it under a different name and reject any connections to NS; even if they are obvious

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    Besides there has been a slow but steady movement against rule by hierarchal tyrranies , of which National Socialism would qualify imo , throughout the course of history.
    Oddly enough, this is true, but NS is no tyranny, it is a lordship.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    I don't see too many signs of that changing which further removes the chance of any elitist ideology from enjoying genuine popular support.
    See above, and see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    The BNP is a good example, even most of their supporters would not support National Socialist policies and any talk of eugenics would be met with genuine horror by the majority.
    You could have picked the Labour party as well, we are back at the propaganda thingy, of course, we don't tell the masses everything, silly, old rule of politics

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    You would have to resort to totalitarian tyrrany to control your own supporters
    Nope, by your own logic, they would stop to support us. A paradox.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    But if ya wish to stay in Dreamsville be my guest.............. just don't be sad in old age because it never happened
    Do not worry about impossibilities.
    The weak always want to convince the strong that something is impossible, so they have an excuse for their weakness (it wasn't because of us it was just because it is impossible, blahblah...).

    "Obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken." - A. Hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    What I mean is studying rare disease & deformity has given new information about human development and this info can be applied to curing other more common diseases.
    Do you have an example?
    Maybe one could sell his retarded child to a medical institution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    If a couple brings an extreme case of retarded/deformed child into the world, it should be their responsibility alone to care for the child, because what they have done is selfish.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    The future of eugenics will move away from euthanization or withholding treatment and more toward genetic testing and prevention.
    That's what I was saying. Allowing only healthy (where healthy should not be seen in a too narrow definition) couples to marry, and thus have legitimate children, is a form of prevention

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    The state should pay for preventive care, such as genetic testing of people who cannot afford it.
    Yep, I agree.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    Likewise the parents of disabled children pay for yours too.
    My child doesn't receive state pension for being sick.

    Live and let live.
    I'm not a Christian, thanks.

    You should be thankfull that your child is fit and well , not moaning about the misfortunes of others and thinking of your pocket all the time.
    It wouldn't have been any other way. If my child was detected to have a disability it wouldn't have been born. It's unthoughtfulness to give birth to a retarded child.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    The world belongs to the strong and healthy, not the weak and sick. There shouldn't be state funding for people with disabilities and things like Down Syndrome. We should be spending more funds on finding cures for diseases which have a chance to be reversed altogether, not prolonging the lives of those suffering from diseases that can't be treated.
    Nice to hear that I should be wiped off the face off the earth then, too. Having been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome I suffer from the same incurable, sometimes inheritable disease as the likes of Leonardo Da Vinci, Albert Einstein and W. A. Mozart ... the former two actually had it in conjunction with dyslexia, the latter likely in conjunction with Tourette's - two disorders I luckily do not suffer from.

    I've come to live with mine, it doesn't create major problems if you work at yourself. Sure, I still have trouble organising myself, and sure will I sometimes not get hints that others consider obvious: But at least for the later, I have a better deal of observation than most, just last Friday I flawlessly guessed a loosely acquainted woman's taste in men to the point. (And no, even though I knew that I was amongst it, I did not find out by kissing her, which I didn't - I instead just guessed her taste. Ethnic make-up wouldn't have been right for that anyway ... ) Sure I can seem inconsiderate then in some situations, but at the same time considerate in others ... that's life. Other than that, it's one of these supposed neurological disabilities that is easy to get "into order" because by the time most Asperger's patients reach about age 20, you've learnt how to use its advantages (such as good memory, special topics of interest etc.) to your benefit whilst knowing how to deal with the weaknesses.

    It is even considered a 75/25 diagnosis with boys/girls, because it is really so little of a hindrance that chances are that it is really 50/50 but that it never shows with girls because they tend to be more socially adaptable and are expected to adapt more than boys are.

    Or let's kill off all blind tenors (Pavarotti has already passed, but there's still Bocelli), or withdraw life support from Stephen Hawking. The youngest ski jumper to take a title at the Ski Flying World Championships, Gregor Schlierenzauer, is death on one ear. Or what about all these people who are missing a pair of legs but run faster and jump further than 95% of average people at the Paralympics that take place as we speak?

    No, what you need is a measurement of "degree of disability". I am actually in favour of euthanasia in the case of disabilities, however I would apply a certain sense of discretion here.

    Most people who are blind, deaf, immobile etc. will not suffer from that. They tend to come clear with that fate, and often will use that weakness to their advantage elsewhere. They can still lead a fairly normal life, and have often been known to make something of themselves. A physical order has never stopped anyone becoming a valuable member of the folk.

    Mild neurological/mental disorders are also no issue. Often enough, people can be nutcases but at the same time be the most intelligent men alive. Prof. John Nash even had a film devoted to his schizophrenia, Rudolf Heß suffered from several paranoia, i'd go as far as including schizoid personality disorder in that. They still made it far. A slight (or sometimes less slight) mental disorder that does not overly inhibit living has never stopped anyone becoming a valuable member of the folk either.

    Where euthanasia might be applied however is where one would clearly relieve the subject concerned. I would not see an issue in euthanising those who are so severely mentally handicapped, that no matter what, they will never be able to lead a near-normal life. That's not a question of the Folk's Health, that's a question of sparing that child a harsher fate - just like withdrawing a vegetable's life support is sparing them a harsher fate.

    If you seriously believe that the old NS guard, if they did euthanise mentally handicapped persons, for the sake of "purging the weak", then you are clearly misinformed and are likely believing an old line of Allied propaganda which would seek to make monsters out of all of the leading Guard of NS, whilst many really just tended to be the same fanatics found everywhere that just so happened to be on the losing side of the war.

    Dr. Mengele, I am certain, did not administer a single euthanasia for the purpose of creating a Nietzschean Superhuman, he would have done that in those commendable cases where it would not have been more humane to let them live, anyway.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Having been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome I suffer from the same incurable, sometimes inheritable disease as the likes of Leonardo Da Vinci, Albert Einstein and W. A. Mozart ... the former two actually had it in conjunction with dyslexia, the latter likely in conjunction with Tourette's - two disorders I luckily do not suffer from.
    Well, I have Asperger's syndrome too. My personal world is much bigger than the neurotypical person, and my social world (although I am very sociable) is much smaller. This is one way to look at the disorder.

    Arrested social development is another way to look at it, because people with Autism Spectrum Disorders 'improve' with age.

    Some of my ambitions have been thwarted by both the disorder and the diagnosis, but, of course, none of these paths were in any way appropriate for me.

    I am fascinated by autism's prevalance in the Cro-Magnoid population of Northern Finland and I want to see anthropological explanation for this.

    Lastly, it is clear to me that autism genes are extremely valuable for the continued survival of Germanics, because they have created such genius as well as the tragedy of low-functioning autism.

    If qualities such as hyperlexia, and extreme capacity for abstract thought (or just plain old clear thinking without regard for social concerns) is a problem for Todesengel and the Hollywood Nazi scapegoater-eugenicists, then perhaps they need to take a look in the mirror and think about why.

    This obsession with swarming, herding and 'everyone fitting in' is also strangely over-feminine, passive-aggressive, Communistic and conspicuously proletarian.

  8. #68
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    Why make public policy contingent upon your personal situation? It is a vestige of liberal-individualism that you should cleanse from your mind if you have rejected the ideology as such.

    And why would we need to target Aspies if they are really a boon to our folk?

    Lastly, I don't think it is fair to label Todesengel as a Hollywood Nazi. Her attitude is what would have been expected from a normal member of the NS-Frauenschaft. Not aggressive, but mindful of her duty and her people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    ....the former two actually had it in conjunction with dyslexia, the latter likely in conjunction with Tourette's - two disorders I luckily do not suffer from....

    Gregor Schlierenzauer, is death on one ear.

    Perhaps not Dyslexic, but I'm starting to wonder.
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Nice to hear that I should be wiped off the face off the earth then, too. Having been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome I suffer from the same incurable, sometimes inheritable disease as the likes of Leonardo Da Vinci, Albert Einstein and W. A. Mozart ... the former two actually had it in conjunction with dyslexia, the latter likely in conjunction with Tourette's - two disorders I luckily do not suffer from.

    I've come to live with mine, it doesn't create major problems if you work at yourself. Sure, I still have trouble organising myself, and sure will I sometimes not get hints that others consider obvious: But at least for the later, I have a better deal of observation than most, just last Friday I flawlessly guessed a loosely acquainted woman's taste in men to the point. (And no, even though I knew that I was amongst it, I did not find out by kissing her, which I didn't - I instead just guessed her taste. Ethnic make-up wouldn't have been right for that anyway ... ) Sure I can seem inconsiderate then in some situations, but at the same time considerate in others ... that's life. Other than that, it's one of these supposed neurological disabilities that is easy to get "into order" because by the time most Asperger's patients reach about age 20, you've learnt how to use its advantages (such as good memory, special topics of interest etc.) to your benefit whilst knowing how to deal with the weaknesses.

    It is even considered a 75/25 diagnosis with boys/girls, because it is really so little of a hindrance that chances are that it is really 50/50 but that it never shows with girls because they tend to be more socially adaptable and are expected to adapt more than boys are.

    Or let's kill off all blind tenors (Pavarotti has already passed, but there's still Bocelli), or withdraw life support from Stephen Hawking. The youngest ski jumper to take a title at the Ski Flying World Championships, Gregor Schlierenzauer, is death on one ear. Or what about all these people who are missing a pair of legs but run faster and jump further than 95% of average people at the Paralympics that take place as we speak?

    No, what you need is a measurement of "degree of disability". I am actually in favour of euthanasia in the case of disabilities, however I would apply a certain sense of discretion here.

    Most people who are blind, deaf, immobile etc. will not suffer from that. They tend to come clear with that fate, and often will use that weakness to their advantage elsewhere. They can still lead a fairly normal life, and have often been known to make something of themselves. A physical order has never stopped anyone becoming a valuable member of the folk.

    Mild neurological/mental disorders are also no issue. Often enough, people can be nutcases but at the same time be the most intelligent men alive. Prof. John Nash even had a film devoted to his schizophrenia, Rudolf Heß suffered from several paranoia, i'd go as far as including schizoid personality disorder in that. They still made it far. A slight (or sometimes less slight) mental disorder that does not overly inhibit living has never stopped anyone becoming a valuable member of the folk either.

    Where euthanasia might be applied however is where one would clearly relieve the subject concerned. I would not see an issue in euthanising those who are so severely mentally handicapped, that no matter what, they will never be able to lead a near-normal life. That's not a question of the Folk's Health, that's a question of sparing that child a harsher fate - just like withdrawing a vegetable's life support is sparing them a harsher fate.
    How many disabled are qualified as geniouses? 1%? 4%? Not the majority anyway.
    Naturally there's also a difference between the classic diseases and the 1st century diseases invented to control the population like holocaust boredom, or things like when you are too introverted/extroverted, asocial or something like that, just invented for psychiatrists to make money with selling some medication for it.

    Why you are making this personal anyway, you think if someone who posts on the same forum as I, my nextdoor neighbour, my family or myself would be the ones affected, I would change my mind? I'd be the first to request euthanasia for myself if I were bound to a wheelchair like a veggie.

    If you seriously believe that the old NS guard, if they did euthanise mentally handicapped persons, for the sake of "purging the weak", then you are clearly misinformed and are likely believing an old line of Allied propaganda which would seek to make monsters out of all of the leading Guard of NS, whilst many really just tended to be the same fanatics found everywhere that just so happened to be on the losing side of the war.
    It doesn't make them monsters, it makes them people concerned for the health of their nation and I also don't believe the propaganda which tries to make the nationalsocialists cuddly teddy bears. Please watch the nationalsocialist propaganda videos where they show us why the weak are an inconvenience to us.

    Dr. Mengele, I am certain, did not administer a single euthanasia for the purpose of creating a Nietzschean Superhuman, he would have done that in those commendable cases where it would not have been more humane to let them live, anyway.
    And how you are so certain, did you ask him?

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