Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 84

Thread: Medical Policy Regarding Eugenics and Disability?

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    skyhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, March 8th, 2010 @ 09:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    celtic
    Country
    England England
    Gender
    Politics
    radical democracy
    Religion
    atheism
    Posts
    664
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    Nonesense. It has been done for thousands of years. And clearly there were enough people left to have children or we wouldn't be here. Of course the ancients had a healthier worldview than we do in modern times.
    So has everyone been doing this " for thousands of years ? "

    If they have it hasn't worked has it ?
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    BeornWulfWer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, February 8th, 2019 @ 10:19 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt
    Ancestry
    West Country Zider 'ead.
    Subrace
    Brünn/Keltic-Nordic
    Country
    England England
    State
    Wessex Wessex
    Location
    Brycзstow,Sumorsǣte
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Family
    Engaged
    Occupation
    Slinger
    Politics
    Uncer Dæg Willa Becuman
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    1,144
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10
    Thanked in
    10 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    I think alot of people are guided by their emotions and not logic and reason when it comes to the discussion of Eugenics. Thus the "what if you have a retarded baby..." posts. Healthy, intelligent, and physically attractive people are more desirable than sickly, unintelligent, and deformed people. I believe this is both logical and rational.
    It isn't emotionally driven. It is a perspective which can hold its head up to the very highest scrutiny of moral fortitude.

    I personally can't see why someone's looks could shape my perception of their usefulness towards society! Neither could I see why intelligence would be of the utmost importance through contributing to society!

    The lowest jobs still have to be done and I can't really see intelligent, Penelope Cruz type citizens cleaning toilets or washing soiled linen.

    Could you?

    By the way, do you have a child, or have ever fathered child in your lifetime, DanseMacabre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    : So a strong person doing "bad" is not strong, a strong person doing "good" is strong?
    You don't have to reinvent the word strength here.
    I am not reinventing the word. My apologies for confusing the matter, but what I meant by strength would be the strength to carry on with life and protect those that need your strength regardless of how much you may feel they 'drag you down.'

    I have always thought a man is one who does what is required even if the process is hard and beyond him.

    To be a man you need the strength I described.

    Out of interest, Jäger; are you a Father or ever had a child?
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

    _________________

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    skyhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, March 8th, 2010 @ 09:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    celtic
    Country
    England England
    Gender
    Politics
    radical democracy
    Religion
    atheism
    Posts
    664
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    On the other hand, whenever one child is disabled, the parents (and usually the rest of the family) spend all their time, energy, and resources taking care of the retard.
    And that is their choice so you should respect that.

    BTW how many children do you ( or the other vocalists here ) have ?
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

  4. #44
    Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Nachtengel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 17th, 2021 @ 11:09 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Gender
    Posts
    6,434
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    201
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,261
    Thanked in
    745 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    At what strength of retardation would you deem unable to work?
    There are an innumerable amount who do work and benefit society to your satisfaction.
    The reason, I feel, that more are not working is pure and simple embarrassment and hassle they would face in the work place.
    Then they are selfish.

    She has asthma(mild), poor eyesight through only having a slight case of Brown's syndrome(again, mild that is corrective); and a speech impediment which speech therapists say will be gone within a few years.

    Hardly sick!
    Hardly healthy. I wouldn't consider myself blessed if I had a child like that. The child will be ridiculed later and suffer because of these defects. No suffering is better than suffering.

    Nor does the rest of the world. When they do submit to that urge, they will be sent to prison. A fact of life the crime occurred. A fact of life they will be punished.
    You mentioned a propensity, not an ability. Two different things. It's better to prevent crime than to let it happen. People who have a propensity to act based on their primary urges are a threat, like a ticking bomb. I don't want to imagine how it would be if I had such a man near me or near my child. I'd close the door on him immediately than wait to get harmed.

    But the masses emotions certainly feed the medical trade.

    I wonder how much money is written out in cheques to psychiatrists and other professionals by the millions of patients?
    Yes, and?


    Just a question.

    Do you have children, or have ever had a child?
    How is my personal life of any concern to you? But yes, I have a son. How is it relavant? Does having children make someone a better authority to speak on the subject?

  5. #45
    Senior Member
    BeornWulfWer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, February 8th, 2019 @ 10:19 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt
    Ancestry
    West Country Zider 'ead.
    Subrace
    Brünn/Keltic-Nordic
    Country
    England England
    State
    Wessex Wessex
    Location
    Brycзstow,Sumorsǣte
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Family
    Engaged
    Occupation
    Slinger
    Politics
    Uncer Dæg Willa Becuman
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    1,144
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10
    Thanked in
    10 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    How is my personal life of any concern to you? But yes, I have a son. How is it relavant? Does having children make someone a better authority to speak on the subject?
    It was just a curiosity that I was eager to hear.

    I wish your son the very best. Here's to his constant health.

    :betm1301:
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

    _________________

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    skyhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, March 8th, 2010 @ 09:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    celtic
    Country
    England England
    Gender
    Politics
    radical democracy
    Religion
    atheism
    Posts
    664
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    How is my personal life of any concern to you?
    Likewise how is anyone elses personal life, the choices they make , any concern to you ?
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

  7. #47
    Account Disabled on Request

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, January 8th, 2010 @ 08:32 AM
    Ethnicity
    Dutch
    Subrace
    Alpinid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Lappland Lappland
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    3,286
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    30
    Thanked in
    30 Posts
    Severe deformities of the body, intellect, or mental state are rare anomalies which will always exist in human populations regardless of any eugenics measures taken against them. Are these people a drain on the system? Just as an example, in 1988 in Australia around 4% of the total population was considered "severely disabled" and the vast majority of these were elderly people afflicted by the problems of old age. The notion that the hereditarily ill are propagating in out of control numbers and are a huge drain on public resources is a myth straight out of some 1930's propaganda film. Think of any normal public high school, you'll have 1500 students and around 15 of these will be deaf/blind/severely retarded/Down Syndrome students and perhaps 20 mildly retarded/learning disabled.

    As for stopping them from breeding, very few of the severely hereditarily handicapped manage to breed anyway, so sterilizing or euthanizing them would be a waste of medical resources. Healthy people have unhealthy offspring all the time, we all carry the genetic possibility of abnormalities like it or not. People who call for the complete culling of the retards and mutants don't seem to understand this simple fact of nature. Even if you get rid of them, you will still see them pop up every now and then in the next generation. There is no cure-all for these genetic disorders. The existence of such people is important actually for understanding evolution & human development, so they are far from "useless." You gain a greater understanding of what is normal by examining what is abnormal.

    A program of encouraging healthy, intelligent couples to have more children & unhealthy, unintelligent couples to have fewer (or ideally, none) is a step in the right direction and all that is needed for 'race betterment.' A much bigger eugenic problem involves lowering standards in education to meet the needs of the less intelligent (no child left behind = every child left behind), when the logical thing to do is refuse to educate the irreversibly stupid (anyone with an IQ lower than, say, 85) beyond a certain point (6th grade or so) instead of filling them up with false hopes of greatness they will never achieve.

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Thrymheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    Thursday, October 15th, 2009 @ 08:32 PM
    Ethnicity
    Welsh/Scandinavian
    Country
    Scotland Scotland
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Gender
    Occupation
    student/Bar supervisor
    Politics
    mixed
    Religion
    Heathen
    Posts
    610
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts
    I think the point that some people seem to be missing is that there is a huge difference between not helping someone and hindering them. In my ideal world it would depend on the child's ability to survive. ie if it was born with no legs but was otherwise healthy thats fine, when the child grew up a suitable job would be found depending on it's skills, obviously this might require some help from an able bodies person but that would be minimal, the adult would have to live without constant care.
    I believe that some disabilities like downs come with increased risks of death from relatively minor illnesses etc, I would then let these illnesses take their toll as a badly retarded child removes the parents from the productive population and requires several other people to look after it as well effectively wasting their time too.

    The elderly and those who have had accidents are a different matter. The elderly should have provided for themselves, be this by saving or by having children to provide for them. People who have had accidents can be further split into those who were in the service of their folk when it happened (Army Fire service etc) who should be supported by the state, those whose disability is through no fault of their own (train crash victims lightning etc) who would be found employment in a suitable position or allowed to die if they were very bad. And those that brought it on themselves (idiot drivers, skydivers etc) who would receive no help and would need to rely on their own resources

    I would also have marriage and child licences
    Cattle die, kinsmen die,
    the self must also die;
    but glory never dies,
    For the one who is able to achieve it.

    Sayings of the High One.

  9. #49
    Bloodhound
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Jäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Atlantean
    Gender
    Posts
    4,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    23
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    126
    Thanked in
    95 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    It's not a totalitarian ideology but you have to have permission to breed.
    How totalitarian NS is depends on the leader, and on necessity.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    If we stopped all the people who have some sort of genetic vulnerability to disease from having children there would be nobody left. eyes:
    That is not necessary, and would be indeed counterproductive.
    However, certain genetic vulnerabilities should still be stopped

    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    My apologies for confusing the matter, but what I meant by strength would be the strength to carry on with life and protect those that need your strength regardless of how much you may feel they 'drag you down.'
    The word you are looking for is "humanism".

    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    I have always thought a man is one who does what is required even if the process is hard and beyond him.
    If it is beyond him, he cannot do it, however, without the beyond thingy, I would agree, but we are talking about whether helping the unfit is "required".

    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    Out of interest, Jäger; are you a Father or ever had a child?
    I'd like to keep my personal life out of such discussions.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    Likewise how is anyone elses personal life, the choices they make , any concern to you ?
    Because we live with them, you need to differentiate between a discussion, which has its focus on a subject, where personal "arguments" must not distract from factual arguments. (if the person is not the subject of the discussion that is ).
    Such distractions are called ad hominems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    Are these people a drain on the system?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    The notion that the hereditarily ill are propagating in out of control numbers and are a huge drain on public resources is a myth straight out of some 1930's propaganda film.
    Who noted that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    As for stopping them from breeding, very few of the severely hereditarily handicapped manage to breed anyway, so sterilizing or euthanizing them would be a waste of medical resources.
    Why not waste them anyways? After all we wasted even more medical resources on keeping them alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    Healthy people have unhealthy offspring all the time, we all carry the genetic possibility of abnormalities like it or not.
    The goal is not to never ever get a retarded baby, but to take care of it in a advantageous manner.
    It is not important how many idiots will be born, it is important how many of them will survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    People who call for the complete culling of the retards and mutants don't seem to understand this simple fact of nature.
    Nope, I understand very well.
    A meteor aiming for earth might be also a simple fact of nature, however, I still would try to prevent being hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    Even if you get rid of them, you will still see them pop up every now and then in the next generation.
    Doesn't matter, if we can git rid of them easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    The existence of such people is important actually for understanding evolution & human development, so they are far from "useless."
    You mean letting some of them live as test animals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    A program of encouraging healthy, intelligent couples to have more children & unhealthy, unintelligent couples to have fewer (or ideally, none) is a step in the right direction and all that is needed for 'race betterment.'
    I totally agree, one of the discouragements, which like you said should be ideally lead to no offspring, could be eugenics

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved View Post
    A much bigger eugenic problem involves lowering standards in education to meet the needs of the less intelligent (no child left behind = every child left behind), when the logical thing to do is refuse to educate the irreversibly stupid (anyone with an IQ lower than, say, 85) beyond a certain point (6th grade or so) instead of filling them up with false hopes of greatness they will never achieve.
    Very good point, we are talking about the exact same thing when it comes to retards here.
    It is more than just an eugenic thing, it is a philosophy of how to view the weak.
    We do not tow them with us, just for humanistic reasons, we let the weak go down.
    So I take you agree, that there shouldn't be medical help of the state for the retards?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    skyhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, March 8th, 2010 @ 09:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    celtic
    Country
    England England
    Gender
    Politics
    radical democracy
    Religion
    atheism
    Posts
    664
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    How totalitarian NS is depends on the leader, and on necessity.
    The leadership will tell you what the necessities are . Depending on how many people disagree will determine how totalitarian that leadership needs to be to enforce their will upon them

    However, certain genetic vulnerabilities should still be stopped
    In your opinion.
    And who decides what is acceptable ?

    I'd like to keep my personal life out of such discussions.
    That's convenient. I will take a guess and say you are childless and thus have never personally experienced the bond between child and parent.

    Because we live with them,
    Well nobody is asking you to personally help with their welfare are they ?

    If parents wish to devote themselves to their disabled children what business is it of yours Jager ?
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

Similar Threads

  1. From the White Australia Policy to the Yellow Australia Policy
    By Willow in forum Australia & New Zealand
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sunday, September 4th, 2011, 09:17 AM
  2. Using Data from Nazi Medical Experiments
    By Nachtengel in forum Law, Ethics, & Morals
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Friday, March 5th, 2010, 02:09 AM
  3. Medical Reflections on the Entombment of Christ
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Christianity
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Monday, December 19th, 2005, 04:44 PM
  4. The medical world of medieval monks
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Middle Ages
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Saturday, December 17th, 2005, 02:19 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •