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Thread: The Genetic Map of Europe

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    Senior Member Jute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Minus the distortion caused by nonGermanic Brits, it's interesting that we do form a pretty rounded blob, without the odd tentacles and extremities that some other ethnic groups show here. We show the beginnings of stretching out to the northwest, northeast and south, but nothing major...
    I must repeat my earlier skepticism of the British result. The native-white stock of that part of Britain should be among the most Germanic of all. Look at the location of the marker.

    That any part of Britain could be "more Celtic than Ireland" is unlikely...But east-England? That's just impossible. It makes me very seriously speculate that a few nonwhite immigrants may have slipped into the sample somehow.

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    Senior Member Jute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horned God View Post
    How about this? Given that the UK population is 10-15 times that of the republic of Ireland, it might be expected that it would contain greater degree of internal variation. However if you examine the graph carefully you will see that the bulk of the UK is not in fact farther from continental Europe than Ireland is but actually extends eastward somewhat beyond the Irish outline.

    The graph appears to be consistent with the view that Ireland was populated in the distant past by people coming from continental Europe, most of whom arrived via Britain. This would explain how the UK seems to contain almost all of the Irish variation within it.
    That is an interesting thought. I tried to find it elsewhere, to prove that such a pattern can exist, but I could not. North-Germans are likewise 10 times as many as Danes, but the Dane-blob is clearly separate from the Germans'. Even the Austrian is clearly different from the next-door South-German!

    What this chart says is that the Irish are genetically approximately between the English and the Dutch, which makes no sense at all.


    I would still like someone to explain what exactly these "eigenvectors" are plotting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jute View Post
    That is an interesting thought. I tried to find it elsewhere, to prove that such a pattern can exist, but I could not. North-Germans are likewise 10 times as many as Danes, but the Dane-blob is clearly separate from the Germans'. Even the Austrian is clearly different from the next-door South-German!

    What this chart says is that the Irish are genetically approximately between the English and the Dutch, which makes no sense at all.


    I would still like someone to explain what exactly these "eigenvectors" are plotting.
    What you say is true, but the Danes and Germans, unlike the British and Irish, may have other genetic sources. The Danes would have had more gene flow coming from Northern Scandinavia and may have had more exposure, explaining why they would be closer to the Swedes and Norwegians than the Germans, and why they may be slightly out of Germany gene pool.

    Where as Ireland and Britain would've been settled by the same stock of people, until Britain recieved gene flow from sources that the Irish would not have recieved, such as the the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes and even the Romans and Normans contributed some genetic composition.

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    I found another Genetic map of Europe which may help balance the other one out it is fairly recent and shows the British to be closer to the Scandinavians and Germans than the Irish.

    Here is the site: http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/08/gen...rope-again.php

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    ^ Could you post an image of the map you are referring to? The only map I can see on that page makes no mention of the Irish.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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    Senior Member Leonhardt's Avatar
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    This is the map that Ormus linked to.

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    Senior Member Leonhardt's Avatar
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    Here is another gene map and link.

    http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/11..._of_europe.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthold View Post
    Here is another gene map and link.
    They show different results though, no?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Senior Member Leonhardt's Avatar
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    They show different results though, no?
    If I assume they are measuring the same components on their graphs, then I would also have to look at sample size, and location. There can be much variation among individuals in a country. That is why it is good to have a very large sample size from all parts of the country. I suppose most countries could even be split down into regions. In a smaller sample, any one individual would have a stronger influence on the location. (place where they put the solid circle in the first graph)

    I think the first graph is better.

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    Hmm Denmark and Norway almost completly overlaps each other. And Sweden is relativly far from it.
    On other ocations then i´ve seen that you nearly can´t see any diffrence between Swedish and Norwegian DNA but the Danish differed a bit.
    I´m confused.

    I looked at a report of Faroe Islands with some respemblance with other populations (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Scotland, Ireland and Denmark) examining Y-DNA. And to my surprise then it had a highest resemblance with Sweden (not Norway) Second most to Iceland. And very little resemblance with Irealand and Denmark.

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