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Thread: The Genetic Map of Europe

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    According to the historical accounts of Budapest that I have read, the waves of German migrants came from southern/western Germany (I think Franconia was at least one, can't remember exactly)
    Ah yes, silly me, how on Earth did that slip my mind, what with us having plenty of quality members who trace their origins from these movements! :p There were less voluntary infusions of Germanic into the Uralic midst of Arpad's followers, but this was much earlier, and probably of the sort of Germanic who would have occupied a position on this chart closer to that of the Slavonicised Bohemian populations.

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    Well, it was a bit of a bummer but here's some old data from a Cavalli-Sforza study for comparison:

    Attachment 4652

    I don't have the book of the original study, so for the time being there won't be any light shed on sample size or statistical methods.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Hm, no overlap between Germans and Poles in this genetic map either. Should all those loud-mouthed Pan-Slavicists I encountered on these boards over the years have been wrong? :
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop View Post
    Hm, no overlap between Germans and Poles in this genetic map either. Should all those loud-mouthed Pan-Slavicists I encountered on these boards over the years have been wrong? :
    There is a little bit of overlap with the Poles for the DE1 north German section. There is also a bigger overlap with the Czech 'blob', which is unsurprising, as the Polab Slavs took there very name from the river Laba, or Elbe, and colonisation seems to have spread from the south east rather than east.

    It is difficult however, to separate ancient links from more recent German infiltration of the Polish and Czech genepools, I will give you that. I won't accept this diagram as the Final Word on the topic, mind!

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    Senior Member SlíNanGael's Avatar
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    I would like to have seen both Iceland and Russia included in this chart. Interesting nevertheless.

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    It also would have been a little interesting to see Wales, England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland seperated, but then again the more there are the more confusing it may be to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlíNanGael View Post
    I would like to have seen both Iceland and Russia included in this chart. Interesting nevertheless.
    Russia being such a huge country, I don't think there would be much to learn from any genetic analysis unless it was sub-divided into several sections, alone east-west and north-south lines.

    Regarding Iceland, it would probably fall between Ireland and Western Scotland, and Norway, being closest to Norway.

    Iceland was founded by Norwegian Vikings and by Viking refugees from the colonies of Dublin, the Isle of Man and Scotland, and they brought a lot of "Celtic" slaves, mostly women with them too. There were also a number Celtic "allies" as well, as is shown by the presence of a few Gaelic surnames in the Icelandic book of settlement. Overall Iceland has been estimated as being anywhere from 14-40 percent "Celtic", by various studies.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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    It is fascinating to see that Austria and Hungary, and Austria and Czech Republic/Slovakia barely coalesce with each other, yet both Hungary and Cz/Slovakia overlap hugely with the two German groupings.

    This map means much more to me than the map of national borders, and further diagrams extrapolated from such data could be used to propose future bioregional borders.

    I would like to see a picture of the UK broken down in such a way (minus the interlopers). I think that a pattern would emerge following lines similar the old counties, highlighting differences between Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria, for example. My mother claims to be able to determine who is who, and even guess what religious denomination they might follow just from looking...

    Really the data should be worked back the other way, and genetic data used to propose new bioregional borders with respect to resources available. What a wonderful gift to posterity and to democracy this would be.

    I rumble on about social housing being allocated with preference given to local-indigenous phenotype from time to time. Some people do not seem to like that here, but I think that genetics should come before nebulous (and weasily exploited...) cultural and folkish concerns, which have arisen naturally from genetic distinctions between different populations.

    The era when a man's identity (colours) were given to him by his feudal lord is over; the difference between the red and white rose means a lot less without these distinctions.

    Actually, I would be surprised if the EU has used this sort of data to draw their regional borders to deliberately f*** with genetic population boundaries.

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    The Italian groups were both from Marche (north-central Italy), and the Greek group was from northern Greece. Other studies have shown significant overlap between Greek-Americans (descended from both northern and southern Greeks) and Italian-Americans (largely of southern Italian descent).
    Everyone knows that southern Italy was colonized by Greeks (Magna Graecia); less well known is that the colonists were largely from southern Greece (Euboea and the Peloponnese). Greek-speakers continued to migrate into southern Italy, particularly Sicily and Calabria, during the period of East Roman rule (especially during the Slavic invasions of Greece), and Greek dialect has persisted to this day in some villages of Calabria and Apulia.

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