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Thread: An Anthropologist's Critique of Writer Richard Lynn's Thesis on Racial Differences

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    Post Re: Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthopologist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Genetically things are clear, Ainuids are no real Europids, morphologically things are more complicated and they are described as being Protoeuropid, Protomongolid, Australoid, Cromagnoid etc., but finally I wouldnt describe them as being Europid myself.
    Theres no mystery about the Ainuid type anymore. Theyre descended from early south-east Asians and are also descended from northern Eurasians with a generalised, Caucasian-like cranial morphology. Because they retain more of this Caucasoid-like phenotype than other Arctic Asians do this explains why Ainu can look like theyre Europeans but other north-east Asians and Americans can show Caucasoid-like tendencies too.

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    Post Re: Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthopologist

    Yes, my point was that "Caucasoid like" or europomorphic tendencies doesnt have to mean to see an Europid/Caucasoid type in the strict sense, nor even an influence of one.
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    Post Re: Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthopologist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Yes, my point was that "Caucasoid like" or europomorphic tendencies doesnt have to mean to see an Europid/Caucasoid type in the strict sense, nor even an influence of one.
    Its uncertain wether early Europeans can be described as true Caucasoids either but the Ainuid type shows the influence of a racial line similar to early Europeans.

    How do you define the "strict sense"? I would tend to think of the Westren Eurasian dental pattern, but the Ainu-type dental pattern shows a tendency towards Western Eurasians as well as towards south-east Asian populations.
    Last edited by morfrain_encilgar; Thursday, July 14th, 2005 at 12:10 AM.

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    Post Re: Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthopologist

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    Its uncertain wether early Europeans can be described as true Caucasoids either but the Ainuid type shows the influence of a racial line similar to early Europeans.

    How do you define the "strict sense"? I would tend to think of the Westren Eurasian dental pattern, but the Ainu-type dental pattern shows a tendency towards Western Eurasians as well as towards south-east Asian populations.
    My idea of the racial dynamic of East Asia is that we have different relations. First we have a basic Cromagnoid group which formed the bulk of the early H-G groups of all of inhabitated and more Northern Eurasia. This group splitted up over time in a Western Europid or at least Protoeuropid and an Protomongolid group, which still retained features more similar to Protoeuropids than today Mongolids.
    Later, but before the LGM from the South Australoid (Aurignacid/Capellid) groups migrated North and mixed in various regions at least South of a certain point. Ainuids are the result of that mixture too.

    Still this new population, more Cromagnoid in North, Cromagnoid-Aurignacid in the rest of East Asia, was no formed to what we now see, namely modern Mongolids. The process should have begun before the last ice age, but the peak and final form was only reached during and after the LGM.

    The Sinid Mongolid form and Ainuids are the Aurignacid influenced one, the Tungid and more archaic Mongolid types (Sibirid) are mostly of the older Cromagnoid one.

    So the Eurasian partition in Europid and Mongolid is the result of later specialisation out of the selection of a isolated population which consisted of different variants and came in various waves. Below is a simple picture out of a school book for illustration.

    I attached a rather simple clustering which I have from human2/Test which shows this basic difference if its about simple skull measurments:



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    Post Re: Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthopologist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    My idea of the racial dynamic of East Asia is that we have different relations. First we have a basic Cromagnoid group which formed the bulk of the early H-G groups of all of inhabitated and more Northern Eurasia. This group splitted up over time in a Western Europid or at least Protoeuropid and an Protomongolid group, which still retained features more similar to Protoeuropids than today Mongolids.
    I see what you mean but Id say the west-east difference was always mostly because of the absence of an eastern barrier to migration up and down the Pacific coast. What evidence is there for a Capellid-like type in East Asia?

    I attached a rather simple clustering which I have from human2/Test which shows this basic difference if its about simple skull measurments:
    Well lets just hope that human2/Test doesnt come here.

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    Post Re: Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthopologist

    I see what you mean but Id say the west-east difference was always mostly because of the absence of an eastern barrier to migration up and down the Pacific coast. What evidence is there for a Capellid-like type in East Asia?
    In fact I meant, in a wider designation, what was described as Australoid in the wider sense by many authors, though I know that some features are different from their Western counterparts and especially the dental pattern can be named. I read in some works about similarities between generalised Australoids and Capellids (aka Aurignacids). I know some used the term in a very narrow context but explained my use of it below.

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    Well lets just hope that human2/Test doesnt come here.
    I had longer discussions with him at Dodona, was "fun" and rather repetitive, but at least I learned one or two new details and have now more images of examples and this dendrogramm.

    About Cromagnids and Capellids:

    What we see at that time is a basic variation in early sapiens in Europe between two poles:

    a) Combe Capelle type (or Capellid, or Aurignacid): At that time more primitive, more leptomorphic, narrower face.
    b) Cro Magnon ("the old"): At that time more progressive, more robust, broader face.


    This basic variation of anatomical tendencies was being made by different anthropologists Aurignacid-Capellid vs. Cromagnid. The crucial point if the form, the specialisation, not necessarily surviving elements of the Aurignacien culture nor surviving lines from that time anyway - but one thing is for sure, in Eurasia this basic variation repeated itself over time with a dominance of rather Aurignacid or Cromagnid types at that time or region etc.

    1909 found O. Hauser the remains of Combe Capelle and named the variant he found "Combe Capellid" or just "Capellid", for the system of Linné aurignacensis Hauser, because the skeleton was dated to be from the early Aurignacien (early Upper Palaeolithic ~ 30.000 years ago) - so some named the variant just Aurignacid (f.e. Eickstedt) and the broader, more orthognathic type Cromagnid.
    Last edited by Agrippa; Thursday, July 14th, 2005 at 01:17 AM.
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