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Man Never Went To The Moon

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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #31
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I'm not trying to be a nationalist when I say this, but I have an idea: someone get a powerful telescope and you will be able to see the American flag along with abandoned space equipment on the moon.

But but but! Someone just put them up there to make it look like we were there! No.

Conspiracy theories like these weaken our credibility as Germanic preservationists in my and the general public's eyes. It's hard enough to come to terms that there's a worldwide deliberate intention to destroy everything Germanic. Why not make a thread with a few pictures that claims the shadows are off and the New World was never discovered? Oh wait, I live here...
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #32
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I'm glad to see this thread has rebounded from its nadir (around this time yesterday) when one member was making absurd claims about moon-landing skepticism being linked to “anti-Americanism” … possibly the conspiracy theory to beat ALL conspiracy theories

However, I remain unconvinced about the whole thing and it will take more than a bit of crowing over some “fantastic Germanic technological achievement” to sway me here. If it turns out I'm wrong then so bit it – space exploration is a fairly neutral topic really and there's enough evidence of Germanic scientific genius anyway (with or without a moon landing) for this not to be a crucial issue.

Personally, I'm just trying to be objective and the fact remains that the original footage has been destroyed! For me this is 75% of the argument, but if people want to believe the same folks who put a rocket on the moon are a bunch of idiots who can't even look after a VHS tape then what more can I say? After all, it was only the greatest technical feat (supposedly) achieved by man, but if they casually left the tape lying around and one of the technicians recorded his Metallica concert over it then yeah … let's go along with that, eh? Obviously, it was too much to expect someone to think of knocking in those little tabs to prevent this over-recording and it would have taken a genius to come up with the idea of getting a copy made of the original … way beyond the collective wit of NASA's greatest brains, I'm sure!!!!

And then, still on the subject of footage, Thusnelda states ..

Quote:
But the photos were not made with the intension to be perfect because I think no one back in that time guessed that there will be a time where people seriously doubt the moon landings. If they had known that such a time will come, they would have made more effort to compile more perfect photos and collected more clear evidence.*
Well I'm sorry be be critical, Thusnelda (you're one of my faves on here) but I cannot seriously believe this, or even believe that YOU believe this!!! The “moon-landing” was a defining moment in humanity's history and they wanted some second-rate photos of it??? No!! This stretches credibility way beyond breaking point and if folks just stop and think about this for one moment they'll realise how daft this suggestion is. FFS, the political powers-that-be are a pretty hard-nosed, streetwise bunch and they MUST have known that some questions would be asked in future, whether by sceptics or just curious enquirers. For purely scientific purposes, it simply doesn't make any sense to take crap photos of something of this magnitude!

As for other issues to do with the ML, I've actually seen “moon rocks” on display myself at the Leicester Space Centre and they look remarkably like ordinary rocks. Just because they say “moon rock” doesn't mean they are, and in the same way I don't doubt those who have seen rockets taking off but this doesn't mean they went to the moon. As for the mirrors on the moon, well if the official story is that the Apollo missions put them there then fine – it all comes down to whether you believe these "official" sources, I suppose. I'm just wondering though why in this age of telescopes that can see to the end of the universe we can't get a nice clear picture of an object just 250,000 miles (4000,000 kms.) away to settle the argument, as Autosomnal Viking suggests. To my knowledge, no clear photos have ever been produced of the landing site and those Japanese ones look like they've been taken on a £4.99 digital camera (with no *focus* button) that somebody won on eBay

Still, it's all food for thought and this is not something I care about sufficiently to worry too much whether I'm right or wrong. All I'm trying to do is go with my gut feeling and not be a victim of the same propaganda merchants that have sold us so much other tripe over the decades!
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
If it turns out I'm wrong then so bit it...
You've already decided that you will NEVER allow yourself to be convinced.

Quote:
...space exploration is a fairly neutral topic really and there's enough evidence of Germanic scientific genius anyway (with or without a moon landing) for this not to be a crucial issue.
Germanic genius has been around for centuries and centuries, but only in the last half century were we finally able to visit the moon, something numerous Germanic geniuses of the past could only dream of.
As much as I admire our ancestors I would have to say that landing men on the moon ranks in the top three of our people's all-time greatest achievements, and quite possibly our greatest ever.

Quote:
Personally, I'm just trying to be objective and the fact remains that the original footage has been destroyed! For me this is 75% of the argument, but if people want to believe the same folks who put a rocket on the moon are a bunch of idiots who can't even look after a VHS tape then what more can I say?
Is it possible that NASA never did "accidentally" erase over them?
I have a difficult time believing that they would be idiotic and careless enough to record over them.
Those tapes are probably still locked away from public scrutiny.
One theory that is being passed around the conspiracy crowd is that they contain examples of extraterrestrial evidence.
NASA is already famous for debunking UFO's with an almost religious zeal.
In fact so have many other countries as well.
Am I saying this is the reason why the tapes were "erased'? No, but at the same time I will never believe they were destroyed because of dumbassery either.

Quote:
Well I'm sorry be be critical, Thusnelda (you're one of my faves on here) but I cannot seriously believe this, or even believe that YOU believe this!!!
Quote:
The “moon-landing” was a defining moment in humanity's history and they wanted some second-rate photos of it??? No!! This stretches credibility way beyond breaking point and if folks just stop and think about this for one moment they'll realise how daft this suggestion is.
Her point is a valid one. How many camera makers in those days specialized in equipment that could make perfect photos on the moon?
Would they not have to test those cameras under similar conditions in order to perfect such images?
They didn't even know if the cameras they had would work, and it is very lucky that they were able to come away with images at all!

Quote:
As for other issues to do with the ML, I've actually seen “moon rocks” on display myself at the Leicester Space Centre and they look remarkably like ordinary rocks.
Rocks are rocks. What did you expect, glowing green kryptonite?
As fantastic as space exploration can be it is no less capable of producing the mundane every bit as much as the earth can.

Quote:
Just because they say “moon rock” doesn't mean they are...
Just because they say "earth rock" doesn't mean they are either?

Quote:
I'm just wondering though why in this age of telescopes that can see to the end of the universe we can't get a nice clear picture of an object just 250,000 miles (4000,000 kms.) away, as Autosomnal Viking sugegsts.
Perhaps for the same reason they do not wish the public to view those "lost" tapes. The suppression of evidence dealing with aliens is an obsession with those in power. For some reason they have spent millions of dollars on constantly debunking UFO report claims. Why bother?

Quote:
Still, it's all food for thought and this is not something I care about sufficiently to worry too much whether I'm right or wrong.
This is a typically smug opinion I have heard from liberals numerous times when they are confronted with something that challenges their indoctrinated viewpoints.(i.e. possible truth)
If they have already decided they are not going to believe it then no matter what amount of logic is presented before them they will never take it seriously.
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #34
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Before I state anything else, let me just say that I believe NASA did put those men on the moon, and it was a testament to the brilliance of our Germanic race. I don't know too much about physics and radiation either, so I hope somebody can clear this up for me.

I watched a TV documentary on this topic about 5 years ago, and they talked about all the "evidence" against man having visited the moon, most of which we already debunked on this thread, but one. I have not yet seen the issue of radiation brought up in this tread. According to the documentary, radiation outside of earth's magnetic shield is so intense that it would have killed the astronauts very quickly, unless their ship had 1 to 2 meter-thick lead walls to protect them. That the radiation is extremely intense outside of our protective magnetic shield is a scientific fact, and the ship did have very thin walls, so the radiation would have gotten through and affected the crew, yet apparently it didn't. How does one go about debunking this?
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #35
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Quote:
As for other issues to do with the ML, I've actually seen “moon rocks” on display myself at the Leicester Space Centre and they look remarkably like ordinary rocks. Just because they say “moon rock” doesn't mean they are, and in the same way I don't doubt those who have seen rockets taking off but this doesn't mean they went to the moon. As for the mirrors on the moon, well if the official story is that the Apollo missions put them there then fine – it all comes down to whether you believe these "official" sources, I suppose. I'm just wondering though why in this age of telescopes that can see to the end of the universe we can't get a nice clear picture of an object just 250,000 miles (4000,000 kms.) away to settle the argument, as Autosomnal Viking suggests. To my knowledge, no clear photos have ever been produced of the landing site and those Japanese ones look like they've been taken on a £4.99 digital camera (with no *focus* button) that somebody won on eBay
Then how do you explain the reflection which everyone will receive who aims with a laser at the correct coordinates? Isn't that enough evidence that it's up there?

And do you think that the Japanese, Chinese, Russians and all other nations are in on the fraud and are intentionally not producing such high quality photographs of the landing site just to cover the american fraud?

I think you implied that it should be technically possible to make such photographs with a high enough zoom and resolution to capture it in detail. So any nation could easily photograph the area and then debunk the fraud if the photos reveal that it's actually empty - why wouldn't anyone do this? For many nations it would be a very convenient way to embarrass americans and completely destroy the last credibility of the american government.

Quote:
Still, it's all food for thought and this is not something I care about sufficiently to worry too much whether I'm right or wrong. All I'm trying to do is go with my gut feeling and not be a victim of the same propaganda merchants that have sold us so much other tripe over the decades!
This is the problem with so much deceit and propaganda going on in our world: once one starts to recognize a lot of it, it's easy to become trapped in this mindset and then to see conspiracies everywhere. This is a dangerous tightrope walk, as it can lead away from truth and reality just like simply believing everything that one is told. We should strife for truth, and in the same way that we question the official story, we also should question such theories attacking it.

Last edited by Chlodovech : Friday, February 18th, 2011 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Let's stay focussed on the topic
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #36
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To answer my own question posted earlier about the radiation argument.

Quote:
To reach the Moon astronauts would have to travel through the Van Allen Radiation Belts, resulting in lethal doses of radiation.

This is a claim the hoax advocates often make, but it is a gross exaggeration and simply not supported by the data. Radiation was a definite concern for NASA before the first space flights, but they invested a great deal of research into it and determined the hazard was minimal. It took Apollo only about an hour to pass through the worst part of the radiation belts - once on the outbound trip and once again on the return trip. The total radiation dose received by the astronauts was about one rem. A person will experience radiation sickness with a dose of 100-200 rem, and death with a dose of 300+ rem. Clearly the doses received fall well below anything that could be considered a significant risk. Despite claims that "lead shielding meters thick would have been needed", NASA found it unnecessary to provide any special radiation shielding.

The hoax advocates also make the mistake of limiting themselves to two-dimensional thinking. The Van Allen Radiation Belts consist of a doughnut-shaped region centered on Earth's magnetic equator. The translunar trajectories followed by the Apollo spacecraft were typically inclined about 30 degrees to Earth's equator, therefore Apollo bypassed all but the edges of the radiation belts, greatly reducing the exposure.

For more information, please see The Van Allen Belts and Travel to the Moon and Radiation Plan for the Apollo Lunar Mission.

Intense radiation from solar flares would have killed the Apollo astronauts in route to the Moon and back.

Solar flares were a NASA concern as well, but the radiation doses claimed by the hoax advocates are again greatly exaggerated and unsubstantiated. Although low-intensity solar flares are common, they posed no real threat to the astronauts. High-intensity solar flares could have endangered the astronauts' health, but these large eruptions are infrequent. Furthermore, there are statistical methods for determining the likelihood of a major flare during a given time interval. If NASA found an unacceptably high probability for a solar flare event during a scheduled flight, the mission would have been postponed. No large solar flares occurred during the Apollo missions and typical radiation doses received by the astronauts was very low.

For more information, please see Radiation Plan for the Apollo Lunar Mission

In addition to exposure to deadly radiation, the Apollo astronauts would have been pierced by thousands of micrometeoroids.

Shielding was provided to protect the Apollo astronauts from micrometeoroid bombardment. Due to their low mass, only a thin layer of material was necessary to stop these dust-sized particles. For example, the Lunar Module was protected by a thin aluminum outer shield a few thousandths of an inch thick. In addition, the astronauts' spacesuits included a micrometeoroid garment to protect them while performing activities on the lunar surface.

How could the astronauts survive in the heat of the Moon's day? Objects that are heated cannot be cooled by space.

This is true, to a point, however spacesuits can radiate heat. All objects above absolute zero radiate heat; therefore some of the heat energy received from the Sun is radiated back into space as infrared rays. Also, much of the Sun's radiant energy can be reflected away. The astronaut's spacesuits were white because this color reflects the most radiation, thereby minimizing the amount absorbed. Finally, the spacesuits were equipped with a cooling system that utilized water as a medium to carry away excess heat.

The cooling system consisted of a cooling garment worn by the astronaut, a heat exchanger, and a porous plate sublimator. Water was circulated through tubes in the cooling garment where it absorbed heat from the astronaut’s body and then carried it to the heat exchanger in the backpack. As water passed through the heat exchanger, heat was transferred to a layer of ice on the surface of the porous plate sublimator causing the ice to sublimate and the resulting gas carried away the unwanted heat. The ice was replaced by continually seeping a small amount of water through holes in the metal plate of the sublimator. When the water was exposed to the vacuum of space, the sudden drop in pressure caused it to immediately freeze onto the plate’s surface.
I think this is a good website to visit:

http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #37
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EDIT: It's a pity the top part of this post was removed as it dealt with Ronan's accusations of me being a "smug liberal" and my mind already being made up. Anyway ...

Let me just reiterate (and this is for other members who do NOT accuse me of lying when I say it) that I have an open mind on this question although I tend to be a sceptic overall. This is precisely the reason I'm wondering why no-one can produce any decent photos of the landing site because I'm sure we have the technology to do so – as we did back in 1969 – and this would settle the issue once and for all! I still think there's something very fishy going on with all these blurry pictures, lost/erased tapes and a refusal by the authorities to have anything resembling a sensible debate on the topic. What are they so worried about? There's a tie-in here with the way they confiscated all the CCTV footage of 9/11, still refuse to release the black box recordings but then say “this is what happened – honest!” and then yell “conspiracy theorists” at all those who don't go along with them.

Now, I am not a good enough scientist to discuss such things as the Van Allen radiation belt and I doubt that many others on here are either – it therefore depends on which website you get your information from! I could keep finding stuff to debunk the debunkers ad infinitum if I was that way inclined (I've been on the Internet long enough to realise that irrefutable arguments are only irrefutable until someone finds a site to refute them!) but I am interested in other people's opinions. I would have to say that if I was giving odds on the “moon landing” before this debate it would have probably been a 25% probability but now I'd say my views have shifted more towards a 40% one.

There's still something horribly wrong with the official narrative though and all I can say is that with all these tales of lost videos and suchlike, this bunch of incompetent amateurs were bloody lucky to have even found the moon!!! I can just picture it now …

“Apollo to Mission Control … require landing coordinates”
“MC here … we thought you had them”
“Hi guys … this is Buzz ... I think I left them on my desk before we set out …”
Oh shit, Buzz, the tea lady has cleaned up”
“Dammit, okay NASA, now returning to Earth ..."

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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #38
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Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
I would have to say that if I was giving odds on the “moon landing” before this debate it would have probably been a 25% probability but now I'd say my views have shifted more towards a 40% one.
Exactly WHAT is 40%?! How does one determine that they believe in something 40%?
You are not using scales to determine the weight of something. Either you believe in it or you don't.
Please explain what constitutes the 40% you speak of. Why do you feel that it is believable and the other 60% is not?
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Old Friday, February 18th, 2011   #39
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Exactly WHAT is 40%?! How does one determine that they believe in something 40%?
You are not using scales to determine the weight of something. Either you believe in it or you don't.
Please explain what constitutes the 40% you speak of. Why do you feel that it is believable and the other 60% is not?
I think this just illustrates that you cannot grasp the concept of an open mind. I have chosen to express my degree of doubt using a percentage scale and you know full well what it means so please drop the childish attempts at ridicule. If you genuinely cannot understand this then there is little more I can do to help, I'm afraid.
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Ok guys (those I mean know that I mean them ), I had to remove insults from some posts and to completely delete some others again. This is the last warning, please refrain from abusing this thread as a playground for your personal antipathies. Otherwise I´ll make use of the "ban user(s) from thread" function.
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