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Philosophy Investigate the nature of reality, knowledge, and values, and discuss the content of ideological ideas.

Unconscious/Organic vs Conscious/Inorganic Identitarianism

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Old Tuesday, March 21st, 2017   #1
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Unconscious/Organic vs Conscious/Inorganic Identitarianism

Moderator's note: The following 13 posts have been split from What Makes Fellow Germanic Preservationists Abandon Their World View?


As you know I have an interest in ethnopolitics but I am no nationalist. The concept and the label blur too much into jingoism and petty patriotism as internationalism blurs into globalism. For that matter some modern identitarian writings resemble something queers have written. No I don't like conscious identitarianism it is inorganic.

Maybe Ahnenerbe could post us the race laws as regards marriage.
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Old Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017   #2
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No I don't like conscious identitarianism it is inorganic.
Can you please elaborate? Do you mean all identitarianism is inorganic, or only if it is conscious in nature? And how does conscious identitarianism differ from unconscious identitarianism?
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Old Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017   #3
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Can you please elaborate? Do you mean all identitarianism is inorganic, or only if it is conscious in nature? And how does conscious identitarianism differ from unconscious identitarianism?
Well if you have to thaink about what you are then you aren't, right?

If its conscious then its inorganic. Merrie England was invented for wartime propaganda, and the Swinging Britain (later Cool Britannia) of the 60s was invented for marketing. In a country where the rural communities are destroyed by gentrification so rootless city parasites can have holiday homes, where is the real England? There isn't one and I don't feel English or British.

Remember anything reconstructionist is retro. It is larping as escapism. Even the UKIPpers are larping as retro Thatcherites through rose tinted spectacles. Remember Thatcher oversaw the liberalisation of Britain begun in the 70s, and undermined the NF by pretending to agree with them, and launched a patriotic war on the Argies. (Not that an org with a League of Louts is worth dealing with but...)

This is why I am anti-patriotic. Its also why I despise the notion that patriotism is good whilst nationalism is bad. Reduce everything to empty symbols and blow the dogwhistle, then idiots will do anything for the flag. Thatcherism, Brexit and UKIP are dogwhistle. "If we had not fought Hitler, we would have been overrun by foreigners." Well the invader who killed Lee Rigby was not white, at least.

Recently alt-right types have been pushing the notion of European identity which overlaps with the "Western civilisation" meme (Huntingdon, Murray etc). Funny thing is our ancestors had no idea of European civilisation themselves, the European or Western identity is like Queer identities or women calling themselves Womyn, because someone invented that bullshit, it isn't even found in a state of nature so it isn't part of our heritage or who we are.

Its also why I don't condemn all ethnic exoogamy as strongly as Juthunge. If its about mating with someone who is like oneself, even if it is in terms of values, its still the exact opposite of preferring the foreign as in politically corect race-mixing. If the attractiveness includes reasoning like "the foreigner looks Nordic to them", then thay are still racially conscious at the intuitive and emotional level.
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Old Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017   #4
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Well if you have to thaink about what you are then you aren't, right?
I'm not so sure. I think the exploration of one's ethnic identity is comparable to the self-exploration that one typically experiences from adolescence and the beginning of adulthood. Everyone needs to find out who they are, through experience and contemplation, in one's crossings with others. It is not an understanding that is just given at birth, which needs no further expansion or cultivation. It is why cultures have evolved and strived further than what their forebears were able to imagine. If one simply accepts what is given to oneself, stagnation is imminent.

Being conscious about who you truly are, requires will and insight. Something that exclusively can come from within, and as such, is anything but inorganic.

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Recently alt-right types have been pushing the notion of European identity which overlaps with the "Western civilisation" meme (Huntingdon, Murray etc). Funny thing is our ancestors had no idea of European civilisation themselves, the European or Western identity is like Queer identities or women calling themselves Womyn, because someone invented that bullshit, it isn't even found in a state of nature so it isn't part of our heritage or who we are.
The experiences of our ancestors were different from our's, and therefore their understanding of themselves differed as well. One can never step into the same river twice...

Can you honestly say, in meeting and conversing with the common Boer, Finn, Basque or Greek, that you don't feel infinitely more in tune, than with your run-of-the-mill Afghan, Moroccan, Columbian, Thai or any other non-European ethnicity? The vast majority of our ancestors didn't even know there existed such people as these, and were compromised to a more myopic view of themselves and their related cousins.

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There isn't one and I don't feel English or British.
What do you feel like, if I may ask? Who are your kin?
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Old Wednesday, March 22nd, 2017   #5
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Boers and even Suomi are somehow similar: the Basque and Greek people are more foreign and authentic Mediterranean Europe does have a "Middle Eastern" feel out of deep historical connections. A lot of what is familiar about the Spain or Greece of the present is a hostile, recent overlay.

The Mediterranean as a culture area is a well demonstrated concept: Europe as a whole is harder to justify. The Mediterranean has a particular form of honour culture, and an emphasis on concepts such as the evil eye (Mal de Ojo) that are found elsewhere but not with such cultural importance.

True, culture is not static. But even in a country where a rooted Volk is still felt, such as Japan, the perceived need to explore one's ethnicity is a sign of strain upon the ethnic consciousness. What passes as white identitarianism makes very little reference to Europe's organic cultures.

In England there is close to zero ethnic awareness to explore. Just America lite. True, there are less Thai franchises in a Thai mall than there are British ones on the British high street. Nonetheless it is hard to feel British or English whereas Thai culture does not revolve around the shopping centre or, say, drinking establishments even in the big cities. Where would you look for the real England? One would normally think rural or think local: both are largely deceased, as illustrated recently by the extinction of the Cockneys. The common cultural life now joining up Britain mostly revolves round binge drinking and football matches. People alienated by this naturally withdraw into their rootlessness either as liberal cosmopolitans, universalist Radical Traditionalists or whatever. In retrospect what happened in the 60s-80s was a Cultural Revolution more complete than China's.

The other day in a hotel there were Peruvian folk musicians staying and they put on an impromptu performance without payment. In England the equivalent would be something like young men spontaneously breaking into Morris dance, and if that sounds ridiculous to the English you have to ask why. It would be ridiculous because the English find Englishness comically backwards: though many of them will wave their flags like morons each World Cup or FIFA tournament, and probably support the troops.
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Old Thursday, March 23rd, 2017   #6
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The media have eroded real English culture, while glorifying that of others e.g. the Thais.

The media rarely disparages non Western culture, like Thai culture, but it could also be reduced (as you did for the English) to revolving around the sex trade, binge drinking & mt boxing.

Rural England is where to find real English culture not the big cities (certainly not London). I’ve been reading James Herriot lately and the Englishness of life in the countryside there is palpable.

Many English I’ve meet convey real English culture with its unique sense of humour, stiff upper lip & pride in their ethnic identity.
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Old Thursday, March 23rd, 2017   #7
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Most Englanders are barely aware of the existence of foreigners such as Thai people and awareness of them is limited to the negative - child prostitution, ladyboys and eating cockroaches. This is scarcely glorification. Please, justify the notion that British media glorifies Thai people or foreigners because this is a fundamental misunderstanding of British multiculturalism. Acceptance of immigrants is limited to whether they wear Union Jack boxer shorts, whereas unassimilated immigrants are subject to what Liddell calls subracism. Foreigners outside the border are still subject to open contempt regardless of race - witness cuck newspapers cheering British hooliganism after football matches, or the silly anti-Dagoism when Madeline McCann went missing.

One of the nuances about the British that people don't get isi n the modern mindset there is no contradiction between embracing diversity and pushing nasty xenophobia. They will put their fingers in their ears to avoid knowledge of the world outside the Anglo-sphere whilst even patriotic "racists" are delighted by "one of our blacks". The British attitude to multiculturalism is always an assimilationist civic nationalism and has been for decades. In a way it even goes back to the civilising mission of empire: the idea that the Empire would civilise everyone with a common British culture, improve their lot and turn us all interchangable. In Germany the idea of a Black German is still ridiculous, but the concept of Black Britons met no resistance in Britain because of the Imperial ideological legacy.

Rural England is dead because the youth are forced to move to the cities for work whilst the houses are bought out for silly holiday homes, and the rural folks cannot move back when they try. James Harriot wrote decades ago. Migration issues are not merely international: anyone who focuses on a single issue or a narrow understanding on it is rather myopic. It would be easier to make reference to a real England were identity not reduced - through cultural engineering - to an empty shell of jingo.
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Old Thursday, March 23rd, 2017   #8
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I do believe it is somewhat difficult for anyone to discern and appreciate the traits of one's own culture that sets it apart from other's, as one is born into it and take certain aspects of it for granted. I found these interviews of Frank Raymond, an Indian who spent a lot of his life in the West, to be quite refreshing in that regard;

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/an-o...casian-culture

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/the-...ological-needs

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/the-...-self-oriented
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Old Thursday, March 23rd, 2017   #9
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"I do believe it is somewhat difficult for anyone to discern and appreciate the traits of one's own culture that sets it."

True but the lack of trust and the twisted ethos like "playing it by the book" stand out in England after visiting abroad. English culture and life in the country are unpleasant, travel helps you understand why.

Reading the synopses at those links, Raymond seems to be stating the obvious plus odd statements that are questionable. Are Europeans nature loving and fond of animals whilst Indians are not? Akhba the Great? Chandragupta Maurya? India has her heritage of love for animals, and Europe hers of bear baiting and cock fighting - like everywhere else.
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Old Friday, March 24th, 2017   #10
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Are Europeans nature loving and fond of animals whilst Indians are not?
I haven't been to India, or encountered many Indians, so I can't tell. But being in other parts of Asia, I would definitely say the heed and appreciation of both animals and nature is vastly different from most Europeans'. Most of the locals in the countries I've went to in Indochina, didn't even know how to swim, despite living directly on the coast line, with clear blue water and some of the World's most biodiverse sea life right beneath the surface. When asked why they never wanted to jump in, I would just get a careless shrug. I can't say for sure if it's a lack of interest in their natural habitat, or simply out of an innate fear of water, though.

Comparatively, in Norway, and I suspect most of Northern Europe, you will see the beaches filled to the brim in summer time, and even a few people in the winter, who, despite the grey sand, nasty seaweed and humble temperatures, dive in and partake in this informal ceremony of sorts. It is one of the many small manifestations of our inner nature, as a people.

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Akhba the Great? Chandragupta Maurya?
Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. How have they contributed to the topic at hand?

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India has her heritage of love for animals, and Europe hers of bear baiting and cock fighting - like everywhere else.
In most cultures, as well as European ones, there seems to exist a perceived hierarchy among animals, in regards to how they are treated. In the contemporary Western World, dogs and cats are close to sacred, and in some cases, even take on the roll of the family's child. In China and Vietnam, they are slaughtered and eaten in local markets. Farm animals, like cows, pigs and poultry, have been given much more utilitarian rolls in our societies in the West, and are treated with much less kindness and compassion than your average Indian cow, for example. It is not about Europeans being superior or worse in animals treatment. Just that we have different ideas about different animals.
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