Skadi Forum
 

Welcome to Skadi Forum, the largest Germanic online community forum where you can join over 45,000 members from around the world discussing all things of concern to you. To gain full access to Skadi Forum you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Participate in over 100 topic forums and browse from over 800,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other members from around the world.
  • Post your own images and documents or access from over 70,000 files.
  • Gain access to special insider forums not available to guests.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support. If you have questions about the permissible content, please read the Skadi Forum disclaimer and the Skadi Forum rules.

Go Back   Skadi Forum > > Sports, Leisure & Hobbies
Register FAQ Rules Donate Arcade Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Sports, Leisure & Hobbies Discussion of leisure, sports, travel, pastimes, play, rest, entertainment, amusement, diversion, fun, recreation, relaxation, hobbies, and the like.

Rewriting the History of Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #11
Jäger
Bloodhound
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
Jäger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Ethnicity: German
Ancestry: Atlantean
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,386
Jäger has disabled reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
You mean a home computer not a PC (IBM PC and compatible).
Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
And Japan had her MSX home computer format.
Which wasn't as successful nor had as many games as the C64, the ZX-Spectrum, the Amiga 500, etc.
You did not refute my statement, that Western customers wanted a console which rivaled the home computer, not the arcade, partly because that's where many memories of games came from.
In Germany - one of the biggest gaming markets (at that time at least) - I am not even sure if we ever had Arcades, certainly not in any considerable number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
And the near-death of arcade-inspired gaming outside Japan can be blamed on SCEA. [...] So I think that's damage unless you approve of gaming being murder simulators, GTA, chav racers and FIFA (each re-released every year).
"Arcade inspired" is a rather broad term, and I agree, the current state is indeed damaged, but the first EA Sports titles were born during the SNES area, and some titles were actually good (2/3-D), the same goes for the chav-racer "Need for Speed" which declined simply due to endless recycling with only cosmetic additions.
Yet, this is a more general problem in my opinion, since we can see the very same development with movies. I am not sure if I would mainly blame SCEA on this, then again, they also produce movies, don't they?
__________________
"Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)
Jäger is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #12
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: United Kingdom
State: Mercia
Location: Cheshire
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Witch
Religion: Life-centred, Pagan Unitarian
Posts: 1,907
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

Well I admit I am one of those Japan only people. I like linear games that test reflexes which rules out Western games.

I think the last good Western game on a (then) current gen console, was X2.
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Catterick For This Useful Post:
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #13
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: United Kingdom
State: Mercia
Location: Cheshire
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Witch
Religion: Life-centred, Pagan Unitarian
Posts: 1,907
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

Here a games journo is at it.

https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2...age-of-shmups/

Did you know there were no distinct games genres in the 1980s? And that all western shooting games were non-linear and arena based? I learned this from that blog post.

What a load of rubbish.

The letter is right: niche genres specialise upon pandering to a declining audience. Score shooters are great but they aren't entry level. At some point the income from such genres dries up as old fans drop out, and the genre dies - like Irem and others dropped out. Old arcade design was aimed at attracting casual players and hooking them with the learning curve so people would keep paying coins. Even in the quintessential arcade genre this was lost. Infinite continues and game saves are part of the problem because they undermine the efforts at designing a learning curve.

Then comes the obligatory bit about the Western shmups dying first but also evolving into FPS. Why did arcade genres die even on home consoles in the west? Hint: SCEA. How are faceless space marines less accessible than spaceships? The FPS hasn't got its controls right yet: as 3D goes, spaceships were better for accessibility right back to the first ancient Star Wars license with its vector graphics.
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #14
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: United Kingdom
State: Mercia
Location: Cheshire
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Witch
Religion: Life-centred, Pagan Unitarian
Posts: 1,907
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

Another is that I keep seeing the Sega Saturn dismissed: they even repeat lies such as the Saturn having only two games that sold over two million copies. Even if it is just because the Saturn received slightly inferior PS1 ports they can't simply dismiss the Saturn, whilst praising the PS1 as a classic console for having the exact same titles. The hatchet job on Sega still won't die back after all these years.

I hate Western games, the Western games industry and the people who play them. PS1 was to blame more than anything. That and certain people infiltrating Sega.

Before, Jager said "arcade inspired" would be a broad term. He is wrong. I was referring to reflexes based gameplay, linear design, immediate accessibility down to simple controls and a learning curve of difficulty (for example: finite continues).
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #15
Jäger
Bloodhound
„Friend of Germanics”
Skadi Funding Member
 
Jäger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Ethnicity: German
Ancestry: Atlantean
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,386
Jäger has disabled reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
Another is that I keep seeing the Sega Saturn dismissed
I do not see this. It is mostly praised because of its excellent shmup library.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
Before, Jager said "arcade inspired" would be a broad term. He is wrong. I was referring to reflexes based gameplay, linear design, immediate accessibility down to simple controls and a learning curve of difficulty (for example: finite continues).
I was not wrong, you just simply gave a real definition. With a definition you can make any broad term tight. That's the very idea of a definition, but without it the term stays broad.

In any case, this definition is very much contrary to Japanese RPGs, so I don't see a Western-Japanese dichotomy here.
Even more so, since your definition fits perfectly for Pong - a Western game .

I already told you, Western gamers grew up with home computers rather than arcades, the most paramount difference being the controls. This spawned a very different tradition of gaming. Of course, you are free to reject it, to each his own, but it doesn't make the industry damaged (not for this reason, but I agree it is damaged), it just makes you egocentric.
__________________
"Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)
Jäger is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #16
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: United Kingdom
State: Mercia
Location: Cheshire
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Witch
Religion: Life-centred, Pagan Unitarian
Posts: 1,907
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

Well I already said the Japanese had home computers: they obviously have ROGs. But the success of Japanese home games outside Japan was mostly down to their expertise with designing arcade PCBS. True the US had such an industry (though it became imitative of the Japanese), but the UK did not. In that sense arcade genres are Japanese games. They certainly feel that way nowadays.

Another odd thing I keep reading is that consoles killed arcades: though they made a dent in arcade attendance, it's a notion proved false already. The cost of new PBS and cabinets outside Japan made it prohibitive for arcades to keep current, whilst Japanese arcades are conveniently located for commuters. The effects of consoles were hitting by the time SF2 was released and it temporarily reversed the trend, globally: consoles did not replace the social experience of arcade gaming at all, and arcades can fight back with killer apps - where there still are arcades. The decline of arcades removed sociality from popular gaming, and it left a hole. Maybe the death of consoles will boost the arcades again.

Interestingly Ubisoft (France) are making arcade cabinets I have seen in Peru. Though the games were of no interest imagine Japan exporting cabs at a better price to stimulate the market outside Japan.

But more interestingly in Internet cafes there are young people - aged about 15 to 29 or so - playing esports here. They were competing and helping one another learn. One or two of them looked nerdy - most of them did not. They were socially functional as they communicated round the screens. What does that remind you of? Paradise lost.

Esports and other gaming bars do not even compare. The games are not the focus: customers don't take gaming seriously there. Mana Bar and Meltdown were founded by nerds for nerds and gaming media hyped them as bringing games to a popular audience, but in practice neither intent panned out. Such places teem with chattering class hipsters. And of course I notice the gaming media had to bring the word "mature" into it, which is the biggest myth of all (that people ever thought "games are for kids" in the first place).

I have never understood why gamers themselves buy this, because they must remember otherwise. It only applies to the NES era in North America. In Japan games always had a wider demographic: in the UK no one cared till the 16 bit era, when the games were first made popular with the rave generation. That was not little children. Then eventually the console with the widest demographic in the UK, was the Wii - with its cutesy graphics and shunning of "maturity". Whilst ten year olds played the "mature" games on the 360. The irony. But people still talk as though gaming is - or ever was - kids stuff. This is maybe the most annoying media lie about games, that is totally false and never corrected. But I can't pinpoint the origins of the perspective in the UK. I actually asked Glendenning once if he had intended to alienate teen gamers: he said no, so Glendenning is not to blame. (I suspect it began with the PS1 era zeitgeist nonetheless.)

I'm repeating a couple of points here but all these things blur together and all the falsehoods prop one another up.
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #17
Catterick
Senior Member
 
Catterick's Avatar
 
Last Seen: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Apr 2016
Ethnicity: Mixed Germanic and Celtic
Ancestry: British Isles & Scandinavia
Subrace: Borreby x Nordic
Country: United Kingdom
State: Mercia
Location: Cheshire
Gender: Female
Family: Single adult
Occupation: Witch
Religion: Life-centred, Pagan Unitarian
Posts: 1,907
Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.Catterick is a sage.

The history of games was rewritten because it is the poitless rather than Orwellian trend in pop culture journalism. By chance I found this criticism of the trend. Is it just an absence of fact checking followed by mindless plasgiarism?

"But all those nodding dogs with fuck all to say, they're the "experts" now. The simplistic, smugly flippant nature of what passes for media commentary on popular culture is testament to that. Everyone else is excluded from the discourse, because God damn it, they complicate things."

http://thequietus.com/articles/15092...ersary-review/

Even the Charlie Brooker documentary (How Video Games Changed the World ) was blatantly false historiography, and Brooker is a pro games journo from PC Gamer. Nothing bad was said about the gaming industry through its history, and less still about the past problems of the British gaming industry. Very unlike Screenwipe and Newswipe. Its treatment of the subject was very shallow as either culture journalism or the history of a medium. Didn't even touch on electronic video games having two separate design roots prior to the non-dedicated home consoles, that inexactly correspond to subcultural differences between HC/PC and console users. this is not a minor problem - to gloss over fundamental things in a history.
Catterick is offline Quote this post in a PM   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rewriting the German War God Tyr [Georges Dumezil] Frans_Jozef Cosmology & Mythology 8 Sunday, September 25th, 2016 06:51 AM
Australian University Accused of 'Rewriting History' Over British Invasion Language Out of Germania Australia & New Zealand 1 Thursday, May 19th, 2016 08:00 AM
For Those Who Play Paradox Interactive Games (PC Games) TheGreatest Internet, Security, & Privacy 3 Friday, May 8th, 2009 12:24 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Skadi.net.
Except where otherwise noted, all content on this site is licensed.
[ Disclaimer ] [ Contact Us ] [ Privacy Statement ]

Powered by Skadi.net  Creative Commons License

Page generated in 0.64352 seconds with 15 queries