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Philosophy Investigate the nature of reality, knowledge, and values, and discuss the content of ideological ideas.

Suicide

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Old Friday, March 30th, 2012   #51
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Only to alleviate unnecessary suffering or in a situation when it is honourable to do so to prevent secrets etc falling into the hands of the enemy. Sometimes 'suicide' is a sacrifice (and not in the crazy Islam way).
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Old Friday, March 30th, 2012   #52
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I support every version of it except the killing other people part to get yourself killed. In this aspect I don't consider dying by revolution or war to be considered suicide, I am talking just simply killing yourself for whatever reason. First and foremost, you are going to die anyway. I say it is better you die healthy by your own hands then in distress by a disease or another. At least then you get to chose your circumstances that you go, can say your goodbyes, know where you came from and perhaps where you are going.

As it is mentioned in the Havamal, it is no better to just grow grey. But for the sake of your immediate family, take life into consideration. If a mother, father, sister, brother, wife, husband, sibling or close family pet wouldn't be the same without you then think first. The problem today is that you cannot make people understand, if you want to openly discuss this option.
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Old Saturday, March 31st, 2012   #53
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Unfortunately suicide is very stigmatized nowadays and death is viewed as a bad thing in general... some pre-Christian cultures actually valued death and preparation for death was an essential part of ppl's lives.

I don't think suicide is always negative and can be honorable.

I don't consider it more honorable to grow old and sick, to the point where one can't care after oneself any longer and loved ones have to feed them, wipe them and sustain their life... it is a burden. Relieving others from this burden and oneself from further suffering is commendable IMO.

I think euthanasia should be made an option for the terminally ill. If it's acceptable to gradually administer morphine to dying patients, in order to alleviate their pain, although it has a double effect, in that it may precipitate their death, it should also be acceptable to give them a morphine OD from the beginning, and let them die with a bit more dignity if they so wish.

Aside from those cases, it's estimated that 90% of the ppl who attempt or commit suicide are suffering from some form of mental disorder that was left untreated. Mental problems are stigmatized themselves so they may not wish to openly seek help regarding their problems. They also may not necessarily wish to die but to stop the pain and discomfort they are in and they see no other way. There is a saying that "suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem" and I think it holds true in many cases...

Anyways, suicide can be considered an act of cowardice, surely. But it can be looked at from a different angle, and someone who's been there, done that can surely say that it does take a lot of mental preparation, effort and guts to fight against that survival instinct.
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Old Saturday, March 31st, 2012   #54
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Aside from those cases, it's estimated that 90% of the ppl who attempt or commit suicide are suffering from some form of mental disorder that was left untreated. .
Yeah but that is probably determined by the same people who stigmatize suicide in the first place. Putting someone in a psych ward is another way for a private industry to make money, same by putting people in jail.
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Old Sunday, April 1st, 2012   #55
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Schopenhauer on Suicide


I concur with most of Schopenhauer's thoughts on suicide. The only point on which I differ with him is that he refuses to place any limits upon the range of circumstances within which a person is ethically entitled to commit suicide. According to Schopenhauer a man has at all times a complete right to take his own life regardless of his state of health or of whoever might be depending on him for guidance or support.
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Old Sunday, April 1st, 2012   #56
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Only to alleviate unnecessary suffering or in a situation when it is honourable to do so to prevent secrets etc falling into the hands of the enemy. Sometimes 'suicide' is a sacrifice (and not in the crazy Islam way).
Thank you for pointing this out. I now think sacrifice is the difference.
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Old Thursday, April 5th, 2012   #57
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Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
1.) Morally sound and potentially indispensable, even honourable suicide: Killing oneself to be one less mouth to feed, killing oneself to prevent continued life from acting as involuntary betrayal to one's comrades, sacrificing oneself for the benefit of those around one.

2.) Morally understandable or ritual suicide: Being terminally ill, or as dictated by an honour codex of a people, profession, group in a given situation - including a religious reason.

3.) Morally ambivalent, but not comdemnatory suicide: Seeing no quality in life and acting to pre-empt a situation in which a #2-suicide is called for. Fleeing from a difficult situation and opting that free death is a favourable choice to living enslavement.

4.) Condemnable or non-understandable suicide: Choosing to take the easy route out. Picking the "seeing no quality" option with remaining obligations in life (such as dependent children, etc.) Blowing oneself up in an act of misguided holy wars; or of course the classic, killing oneself for the heck of it, etc.
1) - "sacrificing yourself" vs 4) - "misguided holy war" ... I suppose a Jihadist would put himself in category 1, while you would put him in #4... but who's to judge what's correct ? Kamikaze-pilots... 1 or 4 ?

3) - "fleeing from a difficult situation/enslavement" vs 4) "take the easy route out" ... aren't these very much the same ? Under which category would Adolf Hitler be placed for instance ?

..and anyways... "easy way out".. ? how common is that ? could you give an example of where suicide is the "easy way out" ? I suppose Hitler is ONE example.. but if it REALLY was so easy to pull the trigger I'm not sure of...

..most classical despair-suicides of the western world are committed in temporary insanity.. that's my belief...... where I sit now, I can't think of ONE example of suicide truly being a "easy way out"....
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Old Thursday, April 5th, 2012   #58
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I used to be pretty close to dying because I just felt so misplaced on this planet. As I got older I started understanding that the problem wasn't me but the rest of world. So now instead, I feel a need to change everything in this meaningless place. Most of the suicidal people I've known were like this and if only they'd have stuck around and grew up a bit more we'd have more powerful warriors on our side. Then again, maybe natural selection has got rid of some unintelligent people who just couldn't grow up? I'm a big fan of letting nature do it's thing. When people try to curb a healthy and sometimes violent evolution do we start seeing problems.
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Old Thursday, April 5th, 2012   #59
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Suicide is like any murder IMHO grouped into several groups which should be judged by those around them differently, graded on the level at which the choice of ending one's life prematurely contributes to any benefit for those who will be around to mourn:
First and Fore most Murder and Killing are NOT the same thing.
Murder is a premeditated act of killing or a crime, tolerate that in your society and you will not have a society long.

Killing is ambiguous act of ending a life. It can be Honourable if the individual who is being killed is a threat to others around them, IE they are a criminal in the "Moral Since" this would exclude the "Political Criminal".

In any case Suicide is an act taken by a mentally unbalanced person, and to view it as courage is complete stupidity. For one Courageous people SOLVE problems they DO NOT run from them, which is what suicide is in the most part.

Point by Point

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Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
1.) Morally sound and potentially indispensable, even honourable suicide: Killing oneself to be one less mouth to feed, killing oneself to prevent continued life from acting as involuntary betrayal to one's comrades,sacrificing oneself for the benefit of those around one.
Well the "One Less Mouth to Feed" is a typical cop-out taken by population demographics individuals. Refer to the Above Courageous people SOLVE problems they DO NOT run from them, Meaning you invest what ever resources are necessary to solve the population problem not whine about the fact that it exist.

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sacrificing oneself for the benefit of those around one.
This is acceptible if done for a viable outcome, but it DOES NOT qualify as Suicide

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2.) Morally understandable or ritual suicide: Being terminally ill, or as dictated by an honour codex of a people, profession, group in a given situation - including a religious reason.
Ritual=Stupidity and uninformed action with no real purpose. That pretty much invalidates that one.

Being terminally ill is a possible valid reason for Suicide, assuming it is fully agreed on by the participant and has been determined that there is no other option by a qualified position. This would also assume that the "One Less Mouth to Feed" nonsense is not in play here by the establishment.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
3.) Morally ambivalent, but not comdemnatory suicide: Seeing no quality in life and acting to pre-empt a situation in which a #2-suicide is called for. Fleeing from a difficult situation and opting that free death is a favourable choice to living enslavement.
Agreed in the since both are options of the Mentally unbalanced and the Gutless. Not to be commended. Live Slaves rebuild societies, dead heroes do nothing. Also as a general historical Rule once the Slave, next the Slave Master. Slavery is not a reason for suicide. So more times than not the descendants of slaves will outlive the slave master.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
4.) Condemnable or non-understandable suicide: Choosing to take the easy route out. Picking the "seeing no quality" option with remaining obligations in life (such as dependent children, etc.) Blowing oneself up in an act of misguided holy wars; or of course the classic, killing oneself for the heck of it, etc.
Well you are right on the first part but maybe not on the second.

Once again suicide for personal benefit is a cowards way out. Blowing ones self up in a "Holy War" though is an act of war, and is not part of this designation, as far as I can see.

And in the end if it deals a blow to the enemy there is a benefit for the majority you are fighting for. As things stand, one day whites may have to be doing the same thing to fight a Muslim or Globalist Establishments, so don’t prematurely knock it.
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Old Thursday, April 5th, 2012   #60
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I always wonder if the people that say suicide is cowardly have ever truly pondered about taking their own life, or tried to? I would not say it is cowardly at all.

I've particularly admired the Viet Minh volunteers who would suicide bomb French tanks, by running at and ramming a stick with explosives at the end into the tank. I don't think somebody sacrificing their life for faith, an ideal or nation is necessarily crazy and definitely not cowardly.

The argument that suicide is selfish has always baffled me. Think about the others it would upset? And the people that say they are angry with people for killing themselves for the upset it caused? I think the selfishness works both ways there, and if somebody has enough justification to kill themselves and upset those they hold dear they probably have good reason to do so.

Insanity, psychosis and delusions may be a cause of suicide, so I think there should be an effort to stop these people carrying it out if they truly want to live despite their illness that sometimes makes them feel otherwise. But one does not need to be insane, or 'mentally ill' to commit suicide.

Curiosity for the world, history and the chances of life improving are what stops me thinking of death during my worst lows.

I do not see any moral wrong with suicide in general.
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