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  • #46
    Originally posted by Blood Axis
    I just told you to what I was referring. It was a general rant like many other occasions, I have been reading a Savitri Devi book these days that says exactly the same things and I felt it like a really good occasion to exclaim enthusiastically about how much I agree!

    So, do they need to post in this thread specifically? They have expressed their opinions a millionth times already in this forum.
    You quoted what I said in your general rant, that animals serve the natural purpose of being eaten.

    Again, assumptions. I am not lecturing anyone. Why would I do that? People will always do what they do, I or anyone else cannot change others around us but we can still express our opinion, can we not?
    Your tone was a lecturing one:
    You want to eat animals? Go ahead, by all means. But please, PLEASE, do not present it in such a way that 'animals are made to be eaten', 'nature is made to serve us', etc.
    eyes:

    Besides, I really think these words 'hypocritical', 'traitors', etc, have been overused and overrated. Keep repeating something like that in everyday and every occasion, and it loses its value too.
    I only use them for those who deserve it.

    Is fish inferior to other animals in your mind? Maybe it's not as cute as a lamb or piglet? It doesn't matter if a fish suffer when it's killed? Or what is your justification? Why do you eat it, if not because nature designed it to be eaten by humans like you?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Imperator X

      For example, the Mongols lived on a diet of mare's milk and vegetables; as the empire expanded the nobility became avowed carnivores (not to mention gluttonous alcoholics) thus leading to health problems, infertility, and early death.

      That's strange, I always assumed that the Mongols had lived on nothing but meat and dairy products since time inmemorial (or so a Mongolian yoga instructor I used to know told me): you know; camel, horse, yak, etc. meat, usually marininated between your saddle and your horse's back. Mongols traditionally have no agriculture, and therefore no veggies in their diet.

      "Beer" made of fermented yak milk is another Mongolian "delicacy".

      As for what the causes of the downfall of the Mongol empire were, I do not know, but any modern empires should find out, methinks. After all, the Mongol empire was spread out over a larger territory, and lasted longer than any other empire in history.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Bärin
        You quoted what I said in your general rant, that animals serve the natural purpose of being eaten.
        Look at the original post. I didn't quote your post, I quoted Cythraul's post. And this 'rant' had nothing to do with you, but you chose to make it your own business for obvious reasons.

        Is fish inferior to other animals in your mind? Maybe it's not as cute as a lamb or piglet? It doesn't matter if a fish suffer when it's killed? Or what is your justification? Why do you eat it, if not because nature designed it to be eaten by humans like you?
        Listen, Bärin.

        I eat what I eat for my own reasons and I'm not gonna sit here and explain to you why I do so. My own dietary habits are my own business and I don't see why I should owe any explanations to you or anyone else.

        The only thing I said in this thread that was addressing to you is when I asked you to mind your irony and be more polite in a conversation that concerns the dietary habits of people that are none of your business.
        It is you that entered this thread with comments such as 'vegans, lol', 'stupid ideology', etc.
        You could have just expressed your disagreement with arguments and civility just like everybody else has done here...Raven, Deary, Gorm, etc....but no, you had to be ironic and insulting and more so about a matter that was none of your business to begin with.

        P.S. I am done discussing this with you, it's obvious it's taking a turn that has nothing to do with the thread topic.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Bärin
          Is fish inferior to other animals in your mind? Maybe it's not as cute as a lamb or piglet? It doesn't matter if a fish suffer when it's killed?
          There is some truth in this however, I believe. I have heard from many "animal rightists" who would eat fish, poultry because the animals looked "less human" (in their own words).


          Die Sonne scheint noch.

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          • #50
            I see "veganism" as a silly perspective. First, because most of the vegans I know don't eat meat, because they have too much emotional boundaries towards animals...
            I can understand this if someone wants to eat your own horse or "pet", but when it's about having a healthy nutrition I think wisdom should be more important than emotions. I also see a some kind of extremism in it since they only and only eat products that contain vegetables.
            It has been a tradition for endless times that humans ate meat as part of everyday diet. As a result of this the most healthy and strongest individuals were all parts of cultures that held meat as one of the most important elements of their diet. For example look at Indians. With the rise of Jainism and Buddhism meat was more and more excluded from their diet and the result of this you can see on modern Indian people, having a really badly evolved physical structure in their bodies.
            However in western societies there's also a psychological thing in it, like a some sort of "labeling". The most easy way to give an example is like this: when a vegan usually sees a nicely fried chicken, he/she sees the "cute, fluffy little" chicken in it, instead of seeing it as food or meat as it is, an important element of nutrition, that the body needs in order to evolve properly.
            I consider meat as an important element that completes daily nutrition, while it builds the organism strong and I don't think it should be excluded because of "excessive emotional boundaries".
            Honouring the animal world doesn't consists in not eating any meat at all, but taking from it only as much as you need. The fact that the human individual stands on the top of the food pyramid doesn't mean that it has no respect towards animals.
            The most ironical thing in all this is that the International Vegetarian Union was founded in Germany in 1908.

            (I do not want to offend any vegan with my post, I just stated my opinion.)
            :Überschöpfung:


            sigpic

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Hrodnand
              With the rise of Jainism and Buddhism meat was more and more excluded from their diet and the result of this you can see on modern Indian people, having a really badly evolved physical structure in their bodies.
              But how about the Chinese Buddhist monks? Do they have a bad psysique? Are they weak? I'm happy to accept people - especially conservatives and preservationists - seeing meat as natural and traditional, but I won't let people tell me I'm 'stupid' or 'feeble' because I don't eat it*. I thrive on a vegetable based diet and in my own eyes, I'm setting myself apart from cruel modern farming. To me, that's honourable, and honour is my main reasoning for being vegan.

              *Not that you called me any of these things Hrodnand.
              "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Cythraul
                But how about the Chinese Buddhist monks? Do they have a bad psysique? Are they weak? I'm happy to accept people - especially conservatives and preservationists - seeing meat as natural and traditional, but I won't let people tell me I'm 'stupid' or 'feeble' because I don't eat it*. I thrive on a vegetable based diet and in my own eyes, I'm setting myself apart from cruel modern farming. To me, that's honourable, and honour is my main reasoning for being vegan.

                *Not that you called me any of these things Hrodnand.
                I agree with you about cruel farming nowadays, fortunately it's not so spread here as in the far west.
                My diet is based mostly on natural meal, I eat both vegetables, both meat since Im trying to maintain a balance in my diet and I also try to make it various(between the limits of natural products). But mostly I like home-made meal. Fresh vegetables straight from my grandmother's garden.
                :Überschöpfung:


                sigpic

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Imperator X
                  I believe the Hindu prohibition against beef-eating was generally a Brahmin response to a Buddhist and Jain stimulus. I find the latter sects to be rather um, "life-denying" to say the least.

                  I personally would like to see the abolition of industrial factory farming slaughter, and a reversion to the old farm method.

                  The ancient Vedics as a huge cattle culture (like the Irish for example) did eat beef in the past. As a matter of fact, a certain king (unfortunately, I forgot his name) slaughtered 21,000 cattle for a dinner party. I read it was common and perhaps even obligatory, for people to offer a beef dish to guests as a gesture of hospitality.

                  How is there empirical evidence that chili, onions, garlic, and mushrooms alter the senses negatively?

                  It's like how grains are prohibited for the one meal on Navratri because of a myth involving Brahma and an Asura... It's folk tradition.

                  More pertinent however, I find that vegetarianism is a viable diet and that humans don't need any foreign supplements.

                  For example, the Mongols lived on a diet of mare's milk and vegetables; as the empire expanded the nobility became avowed carnivores (not to mention gluttonous alcoholics) thus leading to health problems, infertility, and early death.

                  Interestingly enough, the Mongols have the highest instance of any ethnic group of lactose intolerance... Why I have no idea.
                  I might have an answer for you on the lactose intolerance issue. The Mongols were originally NOT ethnically "mongolian" (a terrible misnomer!), but Caucasian/Circassians. After gaining an empire, it was common for Mongol warriors to bring ethnic Chinese concubines back to traditional Mongol territory. These men would then send out their (half-breed) sons to rule and conquer, and they too would bring back numerous Chinese concubines. What happened was an extreme case of genetic swamping--from fierce warriors to "peaceful Buddhists" in a scant few generations (my colleague that teaches AP Euro supplied most of that info). As the east Asians are high-lactose-intolerant populations, that explains the modern lactose intolerance of Mongolian populations.
                  It Ain't Rocket Surgery!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Dagna
                    I believe it is clear that humans are omnivores. As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants. There is no reason why we mustn't eat meat. If some people decide to do so, it is their business, but they should not push their beliefs on others.

                    I find all the vegan and vegetarian holier than thou talk about living beings ridiculous since they do consome living beings - what do you think plants are? Even more ridiculous when they consume fish and seafood while rejecting other meat. If they do it for other reasons like a "healthier" diet without fat I do not judge them however. I am for animal rights myself and against torture and unnecessary cruelty, but animals are part of the natural cycle and some are meant to be someone's food.
                    Excellent points. A few years ago there was a lot of interest in the "Paleolithic Diet" wherein one ate only food we evolved on, nuts, berries, lean meat, fowl and fish, was said to be quite healthful. Which did NOT include farm-grown items which need to be cooked, like starchy potatos for instance.

                    Although I try to go easy on the red meat, seems to make me a bit lethargic, turkey and chicken seem to agree with me more.
                    http://northwestfront.org/

                    ......naturally the best man could give them the best children. Because of that these chosen Freyr priests had several wives. - Varg Vikernes

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                    • #55
                      Vegan diets can be healthy but they must be done correctly. Same as any unusual diet like the Paleolithic diet fad.

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