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Bloodaxe
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 11:29 AM
I have heard from many sources of IQ difference between the races. I have heard it said that those of Black African descent score, on average, far worse than Whites, i have also heard East Asians score, on average, better than Whites.
What i would like to know is what in these studies is classed as "White"? Is there any evidence for Nordish people doing better than other "Whites"? How do the Nordish do in comparison to East Asians?

Mannen
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 11:37 AM
I believe european average IQ is 100. I've seen figures somewhere saying average IQ of swedes is 102, but I'm not sure. I've also seen the figure 102 for Italy. There's probably no important difference between europeans, except for some countries like Portugal, due to the fact that the Portugese mixed with slaves.

Average IQ in North/East Asia is 105. No european country has that high average IQ. Although I've seen findings saying that the spread of IQ is larger in europeans than in east asians, meaning there might be a higher precentage of europeans in the very high IQ range.

Lundi
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 12:34 PM
This has often been accepted as the current estimated list
(there are many countries not listed on the list but that doesn’t mean they are below 59 :tongue:, as for Iceland ours is 98 like Norway )

Hong Kong 107
South Korea 106
Japan 105
Taiwan (ROC) 104
Singapore 104
Austria 102
Germany 102
Italy 102
Netherlands 102
Sweden 101
Switzerland 101
Belgium 100
China (PRC) 100
New Zealand 100
United Kingdom 100
Hungary 99
Poland 99
Spain 99
Australia 98
Denmark 98
France 98
Norway 98
United States 98
Canada 97
Czech Republic 97
Finland 97
Argentina 96
Russia 96
Slovakia 96
Uruguay 96
Portugal 95
Slovenia 95
Israel 94
Romania 94
Bulgaria 93
Ireland 93
Greece 92
Malaysia 92
Thailand 91
Croatia 90
Peru 90
Turkey 90
Colombia 89
Indonesia 89
Suriname 89
Colombia 88
Brazil 87
Iraq 87
Mexico 87
Samoa 87
Tonga 87
Lebanon 86
Philippines 86
Cuba 85
Morocco 85
Fiji 84
Iran 84
Marshall Islands 84
Puerto Rico 84
Egypt 83
India 81
Ecuador 80
Guatemala 79
Barbados 78
Nepal 78
Qatar 78
Zambia 77
Congo-Brazzaville 73
Uganda 73
Jamaica 72
Kenya 72
South Africa 72
Sudan 72
Tanzania 72
Ghana 71
Nigeria 67
Zimbabwe 66
Congo-Kinshasa 65
Sierra Leone 64
Ethiopia 63
Equatorial Guinea 59

Top countries are mostly East Asian followed by European


http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/List-of-countries-by-IQ#Outline

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 08:33 PM
Singapore 104 I know this is not valid. Singapore has a great numbre of very "upper-crust", private international schools and if this test was sat at by mere Singapore natives, contra all of the multi-millionaire, old-money European childs, twould be at a rank similar to that of Nigeria. ;)

Germany 102
Italy 102
Italy and Germany at 102? Nei. I grew up on the northern german border and I honest know that the average german is far beyond the average italian. This makes me laugh. Maybe the test was only sat at in the northern provinces of Italy? The southern provinces most likley could not find pencills with which to answer the questions. :laugh:
Poland 99
:scratch:

Norway 98
United States 98
:icon_surp I am officially offended and this is also a lie. I wonder how much the United States payed to be in the same ranking as Norge and Ísland?

Nigeria 67
Zimbabwe 66
Congo-Kinshasa 65
Sierra Leone 64
Ethiopia 63
Equatorial Guinea 59
Nothing but a bright future here... :biggrin:

Top countries are mostly East Asian followed by European
Ja, but asians have absolute no common sense, and booksmarts are only half with the battle, whilst we have both.

Son of a gun
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 08:50 PM
I think these tests aren't biased. It didn't come to me as a suprise that east asian contries scored the best. They are smart and there's absolutely no reason to belittle them.

bocian
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:09 PM
:scratch:


Holland Amsterdam
109.4
Germany Hamburg
109.3
Poland Warsaw
108.3
Sweden Stockholm
105.8
Yugoslavia Zagreb
105.7
Italy Rome
103.8
Austria Vienna
103.5
Switzerland Zurich
102.8
Portugal Lisbon
102.6
Great Britain London
102.0
Norway Oslo
101.8
Denmark Copenhagen
100.7
Hungary Budapest
100.5
Czechoslovakia Bratislava
100.4
Spain Madrid
100.3
Belgium Brussels
99.7
Greece Athens
99.4
Ireland Dublin
99.2
Finland Helsinki
98.1
Bulgaria Sofia
96.3
France Paris
96.1

http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/NationalIQs.html

Here is another interesting one on "European IQ" a basic knowledge test:

CLASSIFICATION:
1. Poland 15.44
2. Denmark 14.58
3. Italy 14.45
4. Austria 14.18
5. Switzerland 13.83
6. Germany 13.80
7. Czech Republic 13.67
8. Sweden 13.22
9. Finland 13.09
10. Norway 13.02
11. Hungary 12.96
12. Belgium 12.85
13. France 12.72
14. Netherlands 12.41
15. Spain 12.17
16. Russia 11.98
17. Slovakia 11.67
18. Great Britain 11.47
19. Portugal 9.55

http://www1.ukie.gov.pl/WWW/en.nsf/0/33F61D65A68B89F1C1256E82004F9098?Open

In another study(can't seem to locate it now), Poles had the highest (maybe 2nd) IQ in Europe.

Anyway, Poles not only seem to be the among the most intelligent, they also appear to be the most knowledgeable Europeans.

Son of a gun
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:25 PM
Anyway, Poles not only seem to be the among the most intelligent, they also appear to be the most knowledgeable Europeans.

Doesn't suprise me at all. Those new car security systems are very tricky and it takes lots of intelligence to override them...

bocian
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:32 PM
Doesn't suprise me at all. Those new car security systems are very tricky and it takes lots of intelligence to override them...


:icon_ques Bravo!

Loki
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:33 PM
Doesn't suprise me at all. Those new car security systems are very tricky and it takes lots of intelligence to override them...
:rotfl:

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Doesn't suprise me at all. Those new car security systems are very tricky and it takes lots of intelligence to override them...

:rotfl:

Todesritter
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:36 PM
Doesn't suprise me at all. Those new car security systems are very tricky and it takes lots of intelligence to override them...
Excellent! :icon_lol:

bocian
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:39 PM
:rotfl:

I had a feeling you'd like that... :rolleyes:

I must admit, it was pretty funny. :laugh:

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:47 PM
May I enquire on you from where do you come, bocian?

bocian
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:51 PM
May I enquire on you from where do you come, bocian?

I am from Poland, living across the pond for the time being.

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:53 PM
I am from Poland, living across the pond for the time being.

I apologise to you for my behaviour.

bocian
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 09:56 PM
I apologise to you for my behaviour.

Think nothing of it, no need to apologise. Everyone is entitled to their opinon.

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 10:02 PM
Think nothing of it, no need to apologise. Everyone is entitled to their opinon.

Knowing ones own thoughts is different to that on knowing one's own tongue.

Bloodaxe
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 11:40 PM
I think these tests aren't biased. It didn't come to me as a suprise that east asian contries scored the best. They are smart and there's absolutely no reason to belittle them.

No definately not, i have the utmost respect for them (well, the ones still resident in East Asian countries). I was more getting at how the different White sub-races do in comparison to each other.

Todesritter
Monday, March 14th, 2005, 11:53 PM
No definately not, i have the utmost respect for them (well, the ones still resident in East Asian countries). I was more getting at how the different White sub-races do in comparison to each other.
Agree: Polite educated Japanese tourists over here to check out our forests, and take lots of pictures to show when they get back home are not setting up slums in my town, dropping the average wage for working-class labor to the point where working-class citizens can no longer support their families, or issuing fatahs on people here they disagree with, nor are brilliant multiple PhD. researchers on loan to a University or Biotech company for 2 years from Singapore. These people are not the problem.

With regard to the scores between European countries, I too would have to see how the sample sets were derived, and the statistical methodology for crunching the numbers before I’d take +/- 5-8 IQ points difference between European country scores very seriously.

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 12:48 AM
The Intelligence of a race should be measured in terms of Cultural achievemnts. IQ is by no means a wholistic measure of intelligence.

In that case the chart would be more like this

England
Germany
America
Sweden

jcs
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 12:52 AM
The Intelligence of a race should be measured in terms of Cultural achievemnts. IQ is by no means a wholistic measure of intelligence.

In that case the chart would be more like this

England
Germany
America
Sweden The problem with this is that "Cultural achievements" are quite relative.
IMO, Anglo-Americans lack--and, if we don't consider pre/early-Christian England, have always lacked--culture in the higher sense. Imperialism does not suffice.

Luh_Windan
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 02:16 AM
The problem with this is that "Cultural achievements" are quite relative.
IMO, Anglo-Americans lack--and, if we don't consider pre/early-Christian England, have always lacked--culture in the higher sense. Imperialism does not suffice.
Explain how you see the English having always lacked culture "in the higher sense". Perhaps contrast them with another European race and identify the traits missing.

As for imperialism, it was quite an unimportant aspect in the everyday lives of the English and in the development their High Culture. It certainly wasn't the focus of their cultural outputs at any point in time.

As for corollary points to be made about cosmopolitanism etc: The moral and altruistic imperatives that propelled English imperialism were holistic in nature (foregoing discussion on Christianity, which every European culture was influenced by) and remained so throughout the experience with it. New experience gained did not significantly alter anything in English society, with the one main exception of the reflection on slavery, but those values shifted in syncronicity with most every other civilised European country. And anyway, English imperial devotion if anything relevant at all is a positive representation of their adventurism, and their value placed on the spirit of heroism- values you consider to be integral ones in any Indo-European culture.

QntalBliss
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 02:48 AM
Intelligence is not entirely a result of being of a particular race, language is also a major factor. For instance, why do Asian countries score so well on IQ tests? Asian languages are technical, resulting in a technical mindset (try to think of a famous Japanese, Chinese, or any Asian nationality philosopher, etc.). Germanic languages, on the other hand, are quite complex, resulting in a more abstract (if you want to call it that), thinking mind. German is considered by most linguists as the most complex of the Germanic languages. As for the IQ averages, I have seen results with Hong Kong and Singapore on top, Germany third, etc. As for Italy having an average IQ of 102, the other results had Italy in the mid-90s. And finally, as for Poland having the highest score on the "basic knowledge test", the results of that depended highly on the country the person taking the test was from, etc. For instance,
Providing the correct date of dismantling the Berlin wall caused problems for Poles – only half of respondents gave the correct answer. Correct answers were given by six out of ten Russians and by 86% of Germans.

Only 52% of tested Europeans knew that Romano Prodi is the president of the European Commission. The rate of incorrect answers to this question was one of the highest, with correct replies given by only 25% of the British, 35% of the Germans and 36% of the Dutch. Even in Belgium, where the European Commission is seated, over one-third of respondents did not know the correct answer. The inhabitants of candidate countries scored much better on the above question, with 61% of Poles, Hungarians, Czechs and Slovakians knowing the name of the European Commission president.

Schutz_Staffeln
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 05:42 AM
Doesn't suprise me at all. Those new car security systems are very tricky and it takes lots of intelligence to override them...

:rotfl:

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 07:15 AM
The problem with this is that "Cultural achievements" are quite relative.
IMO, Anglo-Americans lack--and, if we don't consider pre/early-Christian England, have always lacked--culture in the higher sense. Imperialism does not suffice.

You call tea time and Wellies lack of Culture? The English with Darwin and Newton lacking in genius and refinement?

As for the Pre/Early Christian Times... the Anglo-Saxons Chronicles are just amazing.

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 07:22 AM
Explain how you see the English having always lacked culture "in the higher sense". Perhaps contrast them with another European race and identify the traits missing.

As for imperialism, it was quite an unimportant aspect in the everyday lives of the English and in the development their High Culture. It certainly wasn't the focus of their cultural outputs at any point in time.

As for corollary points to be made about cosmopolitanism etc: The moral and altruistic imperatives that propelled English imperialism were holistic in nature (foregoing discussion on Christianity, which every European culture was influenced by) and remained so throughout the experience with it. New experience gained did not significantly alter anything in English society, with the one main exception of the reflection on slavery, but those values shifted in syncronicity with most every other civilised European country. And anyway, English imperial devotion if anything relevant at all is a positive representation of their adventurism, and their value placed on the spirit of heroism- values you consider to be integral ones in any Indo-European culture.

The English are one of the most advanced of the Nordic peoples. They are a hard working innovative bunch. Just don't talk to one when he hasn't had his tea. :icon_arro

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 10:00 AM
Intelligence is not entirely a result of being of a particular race, language is also a major factor. I see what you say here, allthough if you believe on that a negroe, who is native german speaker, is as intelligent than ethnic german, then you your self are as intelligent as goat poopings...

Germany is considered by most linguists as the most complex of the Germanic languages.
Germany is not a language. None-the-less, I disagree from where ever you learnt with this. Old Icelandic, twould be my choosing. Had you answered to this diachronically or synchronically speaking?

May I enquire on you from where do you come? Feel at home to write to me a private message, if you wish. Thank you.

Náttfari
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 01:56 PM
Germany is considered by most linguists as the most complex of the Germanic languages.

If you mean German, then I ask you, what fairy-land do these 'linguists' come from? I'm learning German and I do not find it complex or hard, on the contrary.

Death and the Sun
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Holland Amsterdam
109.4
Germany Hamburg
109.3
Poland Warsaw
108.3
Sweden Stockholm
105.8
Yugoslavia Zagreb
105.7
Italy Rome
103.8
Austria Vienna
103.5
Switzerland Zurich
102.8
Portugal Lisbon
102.6
Great Britain London
102.0
Norway Oslo
101.8
Denmark Copenhagen
100.7
Hungary Budapest
100.5
Czechoslovakia Bratislava
100.4
Spain Madrid
100.3
Belgium Brussels
99.7
Greece Athens
99.4
Ireland Dublin
99.2
Finland Helsinki
98.1
Bulgaria Sofia
96.3
France Paris
96.1



I don't believe this. Lisbon is a third-world city where most if not virtually all the inhabitants have varying degrees of Arabic or Negroid genes. Yet the population there is more supposedly more intelligent than in Oslo, Copenhagen and Helsinki (not to mention the other cities it supposedly tops)? No way.

I've heard that there is a theory that the differences between the average IQ's of two populations have to be at least five points for them to be noticeable, has anyone else heard of this?

If a white person has an IQ of 65 or less, he/she is considered severely retarded, isn't that right? Yet there are countries where the average IQ is 59 or less. Unbelievable. :icon_evil

QntalBliss
Tuesday, March 15th, 2005, 08:17 PM
I see what you say here, allthough if you believe on that a negroe, who is native german speaker, is as intelligent than ethnic german, then you your self are as intelligent as goat poopings...


Germany is not a language. None-the-less, I disagree from where ever you learnt with this. Old Icelandic, twould be my choosing. Had you answered to this diachronically or synchronically speaking?

May I enquire on you from where do you come? Feel at home to write to me a private message, if you wish. Thank you.
I'm not claiming that race has no impact on intelligence. I am claiming, however, that race and language are the two main factors. With blacks, most of the ones not accomplishing anything speak ebonics. The blacks that speak well often times do well in school, life, etc. I believe the ones that do speak well do so because of a drive to do well, in order to not become like their lesser black brethren. Of course, there are exceptions.

Extreme_Nord
Wednesday, March 16th, 2005, 03:14 AM
The Irish IQ and the fact that they were English slaves is proof that they are not nords.

QntalBliss
Thursday, March 17th, 2005, 05:14 AM
I picked up that bit of information from my old World History teacher, who was quite the Anglophile. Any IQ average you can read will support this claim. I'm not bashing non-German speakers, merely pointing some things out. Germany, with a population of approx. 82 million, averages around a 102 IQ. Sweden, with a population of approx. 9 million, averages around a 101 IQ. Norway, with a population of approx. 4.5 million, averages around a 98 IQ. As for Asians, I would say there are other factors, besides their languages being technical. For example, many Asians (especially the Japanese) also speak English. This forces them to be able to read not only from right to left (which uses a certain part of the brain), but also from left to right (whiches uses a different part of the brain). The Japanese also have to be able to write in "Romanji", which is Japanese written in Latin characters. All of these things they must be able to do must be taken into consideration. We native Germanic language speakers typically only speak Germanic languages (or perhaps a Romantic language), resulting in only reading from left to right, only knowing Latin characters, etc. Just some thoughts.

And Erlingr, I am currently living in Louisiana, US. :frown:

Rehepapp
Thursday, March 17th, 2005, 10:08 AM
Achievements of western countries tend to fade, if compared to ancient civilisations of East. Its my view. Ex oriente lux.

Death and the Sun
Thursday, March 17th, 2005, 10:18 AM
The Irish IQ and the fact that they were English slaves is proof that they are not nords.

Erlingr's axe: coming soon to a neck near you.

Nechtansmere
Thursday, March 17th, 2005, 10:51 AM
The Irish IQ and the fact that they were English slaves is proof that they are not nords.

Not really.

It must be said that much of the dark ages written sources was produced in Ireland.

As for the Nordic aspect there considerable Viking settlements in Ireland.

Dublin for instance, was the springbroad from which Olaf and his Ivarr laid siege to the Briton's rock fortress of Dumbarton.

Náttfari
Thursday, March 17th, 2005, 01:59 PM
I picked up that bit of information from my old World History teacher, who was quite the Anglophile. Any IQ average you can read will support this claim. I'm not bashing non-German speakers, merely pointing some things out. Germany, with a population of approx. 82 million, averages around a 102 IQ. Sweden, with a population of approx. 9 million, averages around a 101 IQ. Norway, with a population of approx. 4.5 million, averages around a 98 IQ. As for Asians, I would say there are other factors, besides their languages being technical. For example, many Asians (especially the Japanese) also speak English. This forces them to be able to read not only from right to left (which uses a certain part of the brain), but also from left to right (whiches uses a different part of the brain). The Japanese also have to be able to write in "Romanji", which is Japanese written in Latin characters. All of these things they must be able to do use must be taken into consideration. We native Germanic language speakers typically only speak Germanic languages (or perhaps a Romantic language), resulting in only reading from left to right, only knowing Latin characters, etc. Just some thoughts.


Aye, also that, for example, Icelanders are forced to learn Anglish, Danish and then a third or even a fourth foreign language (German, French or Spanish :speechless) due to us being such a small and isolated country and learn less science and mathematics than other nations due to this and I believe this has is a factor in the IQ question. IQ tests often focus alot on mathematical problem solving.

As for me, when I finish high school I will have learnt Anglish, Danish, German, Latin, Ancient-Greek and probably one other language which I choose. But not much mathematics.


And Erlingr, I am currently living in Louisiana, US. :frown:

Yes, but from where are you?

Prodigal Son
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 03:46 PM
I've heard that there is a theory that the differences between the average IQ's of two populations have to be at least five points for them to be noticeable, has anyone else heard of this?

Correct. The error margin on IQ standardizations is 4 points. It is entirely possible, for instance, for a population that scores 98 on an IQ test to be just as intelligent as a populations that scores 102. Standardizations in the same country on different IQ tests often vary by more than 10 points (for instance, one standardization of a certain IQ test gave a result of 90 in Croatia; another standardization of a different test resulted in 105; one standardization in Israek gave a result of 98 - another - 90).

Prodigal Son
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Aye, also that, for example, Icelanders are forced to learn Anglish, Danish and then a third or even a fourth foreign language (German, French or Spanish :speechless) due to us being such a small and isolated country and learn less science and mathematics than other nations due to this and I believe this has is a factor in the IQ question. IQ tests often focus alot on mathematical problem solving.



Icelanders are without question the most intelligent people in Europe. I saw a study where Icelandish schoolchildren score 107 on the Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices (the most reliable IQ test psychometricians have). I'll try to dig it up...

bocian
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 04:19 PM
I saw a study where Icelandish schoolchildren score 107 on the Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices (the most reliable IQ test psychometricians have). I'll try to dig it up...

I might have seen the same study. It would be nice if you could find it...

I can't seem to find the one where Polish children scored highest, followed by Dutch. Maybe you have seen it. If I remember correctly the scores were 108 and 107.

Prodigal Son
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 05:27 PM
I might have seen the same study. It would be nice if you could find it...

I can't seem to find the one where Polish children scored highest, followed by Dutch. Maybe you have seen it. If I remember correctly the scores were 108 and 107.

I may know which study you're referring to. I'll see what I can dig up when time permits.

By the way, this thread probably belongs in the Psychology forum.

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 06:56 PM
I may know which study you're referring to. I'll see what I can dig up when time permits. Thank you as this would be interesting.

By the way, this thread probably belongs in the Psychology forum.
Agreed. Done. I tire of members posting only at Lounge, the on account of lasiness to read any other sub-forums. Tis always the wise to make use of every room withine a castle and not just the one at its centre...