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ogenoct
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 01:05 PM
MANIFESTO OF NATIONAL FUTURISM

by Constantin von Hoffmeister


The power of the people is directly related to how it views its own place in the cosmic scheme of all organisms. The select are not select for the mere sake of glory and power that they themselves might want to gain, but they are only representatives of the broad sheet that comprises the masses' aspirations, goals and ultimate destiny. If the masses, in the sense of being nothing but a HERD, would be allowed to ruthlessly rule and take away the rights that belong to themselves, then the masses would be the ones that suffer indefinitely from such a complete lack of order and principle. As the saying goes (and this is obviously true in all ages of decaying empires): "The Party is always right!" Dogma is the catchword here, raised to the status of divinity. Dogma is God and vice versa. One who follows the people's path into progressive existence must follow the Dogma that is laid out clearly and precisely by the Party's natural ability to foresee the obstacles that need to be removed in order for the people to prosper. Hence, to rule is to guide, and to guide implies being an integral part of the masses, eternally and inseparably. HAIL the Party!

We never thought possible the end, but then true anyway. Prussian profiles politics is the highest. Recognize those in the East and West poet and mystic, war in Eastern Europe travelling through genocide and starvation. The honor's largest part belongs to the Slavs. Armies rise in red and white cross. Born the man and the subjection of women. The more thorough exploitation they slaves settle everywhere, crushed not only at home. The European working class succumbed a literary battle, strong to wish catastrophe and whispering sympathy. The tragedy of the Soviet Liberation Front: makes vision our whole being and enduring creation.

As individuals we might perceive our self-proclaimed and self-contained characters and believe that we are indeed unique. In nature's ethereal and stupefyingly awesome power, however, we as single units are but a shadow of a doubt in the lingering collective consciousness that harbors us like a titan's body its own functioning cells. The queen is dead, the hive is vacant. Work is to be done in broad daylight, work of the fist and the brow. Sweat might run in rivulets along the muscular bodies of the toilers of the seven seas and the multitude of continents that have yet to be conquered in the vastness of the universe, but one aspect of all OUR existence remains clear: While the one might contain many, the many can never claim to be autonomous while at the same time desperately clinging to any sort of self-respect. This has to be programmed into the masses' mind, by force if necessary, voluntarily if the masses are benignly bowed down to the Party's demands as should be customary in a society less filled with ills than benefits. The current regime must fall, inevitably and finally, so that the Order of the Party can be established. Founded upon the solid tenets of National Futurism, the future can only be national and egalitarian within the society created by the Race, all within the given context of reality's way of separating the organic world along hierarchical lines.

A concept emerging clear as a clean blade, cutting a path through all the muddled selves on the worn shelves. Appreciate the national in the style of our favorite sitting place. The not too distant past, discovered barbarians horned with lust. The death of mortality through denial of individuality. Overcoming through blood. Is the spirit of originality pandering alone to one man? Knelt steeple high, his idol like himself? Easier to grasp the belief of all. Down the dream that dwelleth in misery! Arise! Not drown in gold that no one counts. Time to rape again the wild women of yonder! The feminine neutered, the high valley sunk low finally grasped they. Angels bleed blue.

Taras Bulba
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 05:39 PM
I'll remain a traditionalist nationalist thank you. I despise futurism.

ogenoct
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 05:48 PM
I despise futurism.
Futurism is dead. Long live National Futurism!

Constantin

Taras Bulba
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Futurism is dead. Long live National Futurism!

Constantin

ok :huh

Oskorei
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Inspiring. The first incarnation of Futurism led inevitably to Fascism, I do suspect that National Futurism will do the same. However, updated to the conditions of the 21st century.

I also have some questions, to "give more flesh" to your ideas.

1. What is your opinion on the Aryan concept, Constantin? (I find it very inspiring as a myth (in the Sorelian sense ;) ) and as a reminder that physical race is only the first step. It plays a large part in my own life)

2. How do you think the economy and society should be organized? What is your opinion on the Order State?

3. What do you see as the natural geographic borders of a National Futurist society? Europe? Eurasia? Pan-Ariya? The existing national states in a federation/Imperium? Also, what do you think of the Imperial idea?

Kind regards

ogenoct
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 10:37 AM
I also have some questions, to "give more flesh" to your ideas.

1. What is your opinion on the Aryan concept, Constantin? (I find it very inspiring as a myth (in the Sorelian sense ;) ) and as a reminder that physical race is only the first step. It plays a large part in my own life)

2. How do you think the economy and society should be organized? What is your opinion on the Order State?

3. What do you see as the natural geographic borders of a National Futurist society? Europe? Eurasia? Pan-Ariya? The existing national states in a federation/Imperium? Also, what do you think of the Imperial idea?

Kind regards
1. I am in favor of the Aryan concept. I am advocating pan-European unity. For me, the physical aspect of race is more important than the spiritual one since we must fight on the material plane first. And we must be strong and ruthless when dealing with the enemies of Europe.

2. & 3. The economy, as well as society at large, must be centralized. This is why we need an Imperivm Evropa. While each nation has the right to regain its cultural and ethnic autonomy, chauvinist nationalisms must be crushed. While strong alliances within Eurasia are important to fight Zion and the American beast, Europe must naturally be self-contained based on racial principles. National Futurism advocates the abolition of capitalism (and its degenerate and decadent by-products, such as multiculturalism and low-brow culture-distorting entertainment), both in its free-market and state incarnations. It advocates folk socialism (in the Prussian sense). Naturally, National Futurism is for ultimate and unbridled progress - ever higher, ever further. Programs to colonize and eventually terraform new planets need to be established (after all, the threat of meteorites threatening our race on Earth is a very real one). NOVA EVROPA will be the first Aryan settlement on Mars.

Constantin

Oskorei
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 11:26 AM
1. I am in favor of the Aryan concept. I am advocating pan-European unity. For me, the physical aspect of race is more important than the spiritual one since we must fight on the material plane first. And we must be strong and ruthless when dealing with the enemies of Europe.

Constantin
Good answer! I'd say that the concept of National Futurism resembles the Traditionalism of Julius Evola, updated to the Space Age. It is something of a privilege to be able to follow your ideological development in real time.

Concerning the spiritual vs. the physical aspects of race, I agree. For the common man (95%+ of the population), the physical race is what is most important. That is why we do not want Negroes in Europe, just to take one example. The "Aryan"/European is Natures finest handiwork so far, and it must be preserved. This is to a large degree because that physical race has the best potential for achieving the ideal that is the spiritual Aryan.

And among the elite, that ideal is what must be aspired towards. I deduce as much from your note on Prussian Socialism however. In time, the Aryan/Prussian ideals (loyalty, honor, honesty, discipline et al) will spread from the rolemodel that is the elite/Party/Order, to the population at large. And then both the globe and the universe will be ours :thumbsup

Siegfried
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 01:17 PM
1. I am in favor of the Aryan concept.

But which meaning do you give to the word 'Aryan'? Is it an ethnic term (i.e. Indo-European), a racial one (Europid, Nordic, or something), or a spiritual one (as is common use among the Eastern branches of the Indo-European family) ?


I am advocating pan-European unity.

I am increasingly moving away from the idea that 'Europe' is valid in identitarian terms, especially when you strip Christianity and economics away. Indo-European may be more meaningful in terms of ethnicity, language, etc. The Germanic peoples would then be one of the Western branches of the Indo-European family, along with the Celts, Slavs, Hellenes, etc. I'm all for close cooperation with folkish organisations from such (Western) Indo-European peoples, but, contrary to what I have argued in the past, do not think a superstate should be constructed across these branches.


For me, the physical aspect of race is more important than the spiritual one since we must fight on the material plane first. And we must be strong and ruthless when dealing with the enemies of Europe.

Basically agree, but we should be careful not lose ourselves in the veneration of morphological classes and pigmentation ranges. I still have more in common with an Alpinid German than with a Finnish Nordic.


The economy, as well as society at large, must be centralized. This is why we need an Imperivm Evropa.

I do not think a centralised superstate should be constructed over the European peoples.


While each nation has the right to regain its cultural and ethnic autonomy, chauvinist nationalisms must be crushed.

Chauvinism is reactionary and counter-productive.

Taras Bulba
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 05:46 PM
Ok, Im confused......where is the "futurist" element in National Futurism? Ive read this article a couple of times and I dont understand it. One sincere problem I seem to have with many of Constantin von Hoffmeister's writings(plus the fact I despise his anti-Christian views).

Taras Bulba
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 05:50 PM
Futurism advocates the abolition of capitalism (and its degenerate and decadent by-products, such as multiculturalism and low-brow culture-distorting entertainment), both in its free-market and state incarnations. It advocates folk socialism (in the Prussian sense).

Ahhh...so what would be the National Futurist attitudes towards the economic system advocated by Catholic Social doctrine? Since it advocates widespread property owenership and decentralization to the lowest level possible?


Naturally, National Futurism is for ultimate and unbridled progress - ever higher, ever further. Programs to colonize and eventually terraform new planets need to be established (after all, the threat of meteorites threatening our race on Earth is a very real one). NOVA EVROPA will be the first Aryan settlement on Mars.


Ok I personally find many problems with this assertion.

Aistulf
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 08:11 PM
I thought futurism was mostly about art and architecture, rather than politics. I'm well aware of the fact that futurism lead to fascism, or that a lot of futurists eventually became fascists; since futurists were predominantly Italians.

Either way, I'll look it up, in my arts history book (the last source I read on which I read about it). I'll get back to this topic, and more in-depth, later on.


So, ogenoct, does this mean you (finally) swore off National Bolshevism?

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 04:41 PM
The Futurist element has often been overblown. I believe it was a major force in Fascism's early days but was later side-lined.

ogenoct
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 05:26 PM
So, ogenoct, does this mean you (finally) swore off National Bolshevism?
National Bolshevism has been absorbed into National Futurism, as have Fascism, Prussian Socialism and National Socialism. Anarchism and liberalism have been declared enemies of the state by the wise leadership of the Party. Politics is art. National Futurism advocates a radical departure from antiquated political philosophies that have failed to produce long-term results in the past. National Futurism is anti-nostalgia. National Futurism looks towards the undiscovered country (beyond the past and present) to settle it with fearless determination once and for all time! Its anti-imperialist nature does not stop it from founding a galactic empire, stretching from Sirius to Neptune. Once imperialism (and its religious undertones) has been abolished, a new and true (to its racial nature) imperialism can finally be released to be the solid foundation of of an order society where equality is not a dirty word. Once Europe (the One Nation) has been established, the dusty and medieval fields can be paved and pit stops for the new transcontinental mega-highway constructed.

Constantin

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 06:04 PM
Make a quick rfeply and hopefully follow more later.

National Futurism advocates a radical departure from antiquated political philosophies that have failed to produce long-term results in the past.

"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - GK Chesterton What's Wrong With The World, 1910


National Futurism is anti-nostalgia. National Futurism looks towards the undiscovered country (beyond the past and present) to settle it with fearless determination once and for all time!

Which in many ways makes it anti-nationalist. History is perhaps the most important thing to nationalism, it links us with our ancestors and to eternity. As Marinetti stated in his 1915 pamphlet "War, the World's only hygeine"

http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/war.html

Let the tiresome memory of Roman greatness be cancelled by an Italian greatness a hundred times greater.

So apparently disregarding(and even insulting) ones ancestors is supposed to produce a greater nationalism? I think not. Tradition has the experience of countless generations to speak of its validity. Not meaning to over-rely on GK Chesterton but he explains my position perfectly:

"My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday." - New York Times Magazine, 2/11/23

"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - Orthodoxy, 1908




Once Europe (the One Nation) has been established, the dusty and medieval fields can be paved and pit stops for the new transcontinental mega-highway constructed.

I dread the day that ever occurs.

I'll elaborate more later.

ogenoct
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 06:21 PM
Which in many ways makes it anti-nationalist. History is perhaps the most important thing to nationalism, it links us with our ancestors and to eternity.
You seem to have misunderstood me. I never said anything against history. I merely stated that glorifying systems that are dead and buried is quite pointless. I am, however, opposed to petty nationalism as it is a provincial dead-end form of worship. The only nation that I worship is Holy Europe. Its future colonies in the endless depths of the cosmos will bear witness to the Aryan genius and the greatness of Earth's organic elite. Freed from the shackles of religion and reason, European Man will be able to glide through the ether and set his foot on worlds that will be named after his own traditions: HAIL the lunar metropolis Goetheville in the district of New America! As vision transcends logic, science will naturally have to be applied with great artistic care, both in the design of the hyperdrive and the titanium-encased skyscrapers for the urbanized masses of the future. Blood and Soil is no more valid than waggons and moats. The new leading principle is Blood and Technology.

Constantin

Prussian
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 07:37 PM
I am, however, opposed to petty nationalism as it is a provincial dead-end form of worship. The only nation that I worship is Holy Europe.......this is more a sense of Internationalism rather Nationalism per se & with regards to future colonies beyond the frontiers of Earth it is rather Expansionist & somehow needs a title more fitting then purely National as it encompasses far more then the traditional sense of nature as it exceeds the generalised boundaries of it.

Rather this idea your are promoting is rather something that is exceeding current boundaries in the ideological sense of mainstream nationalism & attempting to redefine them or more so go far beyond them.

I think International Futurism is more fitting by the nature of the explanation expressed here however how do you define International Futurism within the parameters of the Indo-European genesis?

Considering based on this Internationalist nature you have to make careful steps in order to avoid the Internationalist feeling found in Communism which in it's truest sense goes beyond racial boundaries but sets the cogs of it's machine to incorporate one class structure regardless of racial boundaries but rather encompass them all.

Interesting concept though I believe it is lacking a sense of realpolitik to give it a more firm stance on the ground......

Stríbog
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 11:35 PM
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - GK Chesterton What's Wrong With The World, 1910


Everyone by now has already seen these quotes on the random quote generator. Can you say anything original, or do you just plug in Belloc and Chesterton quotes?

Which in many ways makes it anti-nationalist. History is perhaps the most important thing to nationalism, it links us with our ancestors and to eternity. As Marinetti stated in his 1915 pamphlet "War, the World's only hygeine"
[b]
http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/war.html

Yeah, World War I was great for European racial hygiene. A perfect example of Nationalism's triumph. :eyes

So apparently disregarding(and even insulting) ones ancestors is supposed to produce a greater nationalism? I think not.

'Producing a greater nationalism' should be the last thing on our agenda.

Tradition has the experience of countless generations to speak of its validity.

Or the ignorance and cowardice of countless generations who were afraid to admit that the Bible was fallible, or that evolution occurred, or that maybe God didn't even exist.

Not meaning to over-rely on GK Chesterton

Oh, far be it from you to over-rely on Chesterton! :rofl I guess I answered my own question from above.

but he explains my position perfectly:

No kidding! What are the odds of that? :lmao

"My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday." - New York Times Magazine, 2/11/23


The New York Times Magazine is a great source for all things pro-European!

"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - Orthodoxy, 1908

This meaningless drivel apparently exerts a strange power over the Christ-insane and otherwise musty "traditionalists."

LOL "democracy of the dead"; "arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around."

Why move forward when we can repeat the mistakes of the past?

Deling
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 06:47 AM
"1. I am in favor of the Aryan concept. I am advocating pan-European unity. For me, the physical aspect of race is more important than the spiritual one since we must fight on the material plane first. And we must be strong and ruthless when dealing with the enemies of Europe."

Well, physical race is rather vague. Neither Bulgars, Greeks nor Turks would be European then.
The Pan-European idea is racial, in a metaphysical sense. The empire of the never-setting sun: from Nakotkha to Santiago de Compostella with only European-Race brothers is a myth. A dangerous one also, for the whole world.
The Pan-European idea is political, in a practical sense. The political hyper-state dominating Eurasia is for now a myth. It's the future however, and means the partiable destruction of the disgusting Nation-State. Never will Europeans view their identity as political: as citizens. The only identity to fall back on will be ethnic.
This means, that Pan-Europeanism is POLITICAL, and the consequences will be ETHNICAL and RACIAL.

"The only nation that I worship is Holy Europe. Its future colonies in the endless depths of the cosmos will bear witness to the Aryan genius and the greatness of Earth's organic elite. Freed from the shackles of religion and reason, European Man will be able to glide through the ether and set his foot on worlds that will be named after his own traditions: HAIL the lunar metropolis Goetheville in the district of New America!"

I know you write poetry, but you need to chill a little. First: what's the meaning of the interstellar expansionism? For the sake of 'whiteness'? Man can't even fix the problems on earth. Second I think that this 'Organic elite'/'Biological Aristocracy' thing is rather hysterical: you who've lived in India (and perhaps other parts of the world) should know that Europe is not the World, and 'Aryans' are not the only part of the holistic eco-system. But I agree that All-Europe is the political foundation for the order lasting thousand years, and the catalysator for greater unification of Mankind. And greater peace (whatever it may mean).
I believe the reason for expansion of LIFE to other worlds is the will of the highest entity. For many years I've believed, or rather realized during walpurgis night rituals with a friend 5 years ago, that Universe is born out of a unified Entity ("big bang") which during Universe's expansion is spread out further and further. The evolution of Universe is determined, and someday Universe will stop expand, and slowly return to it's source of origin, recreating the unified Entity. And "big bang" begins again; it's like a lung breathing in and out.
The geist wants to realize itself, stop the cyclical aeons, and thus each aeon of life-forms have the ability to do so. Apparently no aeon hasn't realized that, so I hope ours will. Someday. This aeon won't end until 25 billion years or so anyway, so perhaps there's hope.

ogenoct
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:32 PM
Considering based on this Internationalist nature you have to make careful steps in order to avoid the Internationalist feeling found in Communism which in it's truest sense goes beyond racial boundaries but sets the cogs of it's machine to incorporate one class structure regardless of racial boundaries but rather encompass them all.

Interesting concept though I believe it is lacking a sense of realpolitik to give it a more firm stance on the ground......
Celine's notion of "Aryan Communism" is an integral part of National Futurism. Its universal (AKA European) utilitarianism will eventually satisfy the much sought after sense of egalitarianism that is currently lacking in the Indo-European world. Realpolitik is for strawmen and bourgeois dogs! Internationalism is not what National Futurism is about. National Futurism views Magna Evropa as ONE nation. This is in accordance with the principle of ORION (Our Race is Our Nation). Contemporary White Nationalism is ridiculous. Its concepts are fit only for babushkas and rednecks. It lacks vision and cosmic coherence. White Nationalism is cannibalizing the past like vultures hungry for the flesh of the long ago decayed dead. National Futurism is ravishing the present like a stylized Fascist hooked up to virtual reality, hungry for change, an angry fix of endorphines and the pale flesh of young wet maidens. The ideology of National Futurism is neither stagnant nor devoid of a pulsating energy surplus in its arteries. Intoxication is the key to Aryan survival, not prayers in a damp old structure some blighted fools might consider a "house of God." The only class worth mentioning in the future tomes of legend is the one that creates. The only class that creates is the Aryan "class" (AKA race). Therefore, National Futurism is quite class-conscious within the realm of all mankind. The Faustian spirit is the sublime manifestation of defiance in the face of an angry (and imagined) deity. The Party will set straight what is and always was righteous.

Constantin

Prussian
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 01:25 PM
Celine's notion of "Aryan Communism" is an integral part of National Futurism. Its universal (AKA European) utilitarianism will eventually satisfy the much sought after sense of egalitarianism that is currently lacking in the Indo-European world........I don't think communism in it's truest sense aspires to nourish the collective, maybe in theory but in practice looking by the past efforts is very hard bring about the sense of idealism in a communist society once realism sets in the wheels of motion begin & idealism is out the window.
Realpolitik is for strawmen and bourgeois dogs!.......no it creates a sense of realism to back up the ideological construct, without having our dreams in the air it bring s us back down to reality to consider more pressing achievable matters, I am talking realpolitik in the sense of applicable reasoning & awareness not reintroducing the Junker class.

Rather it serves an important purpose to remain realistic & go about political aims at realistic means rather then being up in the air with utopian pipedreams.
Internationalism is not what National Futurism is about. National Futurism views Magna Evropa as ONE nation. This is in accordance with the principle of ORION (Our Race is Our Nation).Yes possibly according to National Futurists but I somehow get the feeling many people are not going to want to trade in their overall National/Cultural identity for a mass collective under the banner of National Futurism unless of course there are protectionist type policies in place to protect the iintegrity & hegemony of each particular grouping at hand only within a political sense of unity.

You mentioned that it has indeed the basic element of Aryan Communism in place as it's ideological vessel however traditional communism in it's truest sense was internationalist in principle therefore insisting that a true communist revolution would not occur until the world all over was under this one ideology, bc in it's truest sense & utopian theories communism goes beyond National Boundaries & seeks to encompass everything to achieve this world revolution.
Contemporary White Nationalism is ridiculous. Its concepts are fit only for babushkas and rednecks. It lacks vision and cosmic coherence. White Nationalism is cannibalizing the past like vultures hungry for the flesh of the long ago decayed dead.Indeed no arguements about that.
National Futurism is ravishing the present like a stylized Fascist hooked up to virtual reality, hungry for change, an angry fix of endorphines and the pale flesh of young wet maidens. The ideology of National Futurism is neither stagnant nor devoid of a pulsating energy surplus in its arteries. Intoxication is the key to Aryan survival, not prayers in a damp old structure some blighted fools might consider a "house of God." The only class worth mentioning in the future tomes of legend is the one that creates. The only class that creates is the Aryan "class" (AKA race). Therefore, National Futurism is quite class-conscious within the realm of all mankind. The Faustian spirit is the sublime manifestation of defiance in the face of an angry (and imagined) deity. The Party will set straight what is and always was righteous.

Constantin.......well the idea maybe in fact ravishing but ravishing in reality it is not, I don't understand how National Futurism is class conscious in the sense of holding a Communist base therefore in the sense of tradition only pertaining to a particular class in theory this Aryan class, a more sensible option is to realise not all individuals are as capable as others to becoming something in many ways, rather we must unify this very varied class fabric whilst respecting the role of each position in society as a whole.

For example you cannot make a farmer a Chemical Engineer yet both are as important to the collective as the other but both because of their abilities have two very different class positions in society, what is important is not to redefine classes but rather make them more cohesive as a Unit & offering benefits to each on the grounds of this social cohesion.

Overall I find you notion of National Futurism overly intriging however of course I believe it needs to mature through shaping the ideology & principles to fit into a more workable construct, of course all new political movements go through this intitial process without it there would be no means to an end, but in the end what is determined is how in which the this maturing process takes place & more the quality of decisions made in order to shape it in a progressive manner to therefore secure it's place in the mainstream, like many that emerged only a few shall survive to make it to the mainstream as many smaller movements in their infancy perished for differing reasons, what must be considered is the ability to make the right decision to secure the intended push into the mainstream collective.

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 04:20 PM
:eyes Stribog, you must really have some obsession with me, for this post of yours is nothing but trolling at its worst. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. But then again, this is not the first time you've done this.

Everyone by now has already seen these quotes on the random quote generator. Can you say anything original, or do you just plug in Belloc and Chesterton quotes?

And this concerns what Chesterton said how? Again, rather than address the issues discussed you type this crap.


Yeah, World War I was great for European racial hygiene. A perfect example of Nationalism's triumph. :eyes

We're discussing futurism here and Marinetti was a major proponent of it. Again, this is more knee-jerking and trolling than anything else.



Or the ignorance and cowardice of countless generations who were afraid to admit that the Bible was fallible, or that evolution occurred, or that maybe God didn't even exist.

Oh please, if any generations are marked by ignorance and cowardice, they're the ones who reject God and the Christian creed.


The New York Times Magazine is a great source for all things pro-European!


Trolling which addresses nothing.


Why move forward when we can repeat the mistakes of the past?

Actually by rejecting tradition you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past, not move forward. It follows the exact same line as "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". And for example we can see this in Iraq, where anybody knowledgable about Iraqi history will note that what America is trying to do now supposedly(establish democracy) was already tried by the British back in the 1920's.

Thank you for once again exposing your lacking abilities to debate any topic intelligently.

Stríbog
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 10:06 PM
Actually by rejecting tradition you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past, not move forward. It follows the exact same line as "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". And for example we can see this in Iraq, where anybody knowledgable about Iraqi history will note that what America is trying to do now supposedly(establish democracy) was already tried by the British back in the 1920's.


Actually it's "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," which would suggest that we should learn not to emulate witch hunts, the Thirty Years' War and World War I, given their results.

ogenoct
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 10:48 AM
I don't understand how National Futurism is class conscious in the sense of holding a Communist base
The class is the folk, the people are the body collective, bound through destiny and creativity. The hand in the field is equal to the brain in the reactor. National Futurism is not Communism. Rather, it incorporates elements where there are positive and constructive ones to be found. National Futurism does not want to abolish respective cultures and traditions of the Indo-European heritage. Rather, it unifies them under the banner of a common purpose. The reason for the Race's existence is clearly expansion. This has been proven on manifold occasions throughout history. Therefore, National Futurism strives to maintain a high level of excellence in the fields of science and technology. We need no more farms. We need mass-produced genetically engineered super-crops that will nourish the now needy. We need bigger cities and larger airports. We need to break the barriers of time and space. Technocratic values must be deeply ingrained in the psyche of the people. We must destroy in order to create. Down with the old, up with the new! National Futurism has declared war on senile values and concepts. While statues in marble might be pretty, heroically expressive and quaint, the deafening roar of a jet propulsion engine surpasses art and symbolizes the shift in values in that it provides a physical example of the Race's power to move faster and higher.

PHOENIX PHILOSOPHY: First we must produce the ashes. Then we can raise the proverbial Phoenix.

Constantin

ogenoct
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 02:46 PM
We're discussing futurism here and Marinetti was a major proponent of it.
Marinetti is irrelevant. We are not discussing Futurism here. We are discussing National Futurism.

Constantin

Prussian
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 04:22 PM
The class is the folk, the people are the body collective, bound through destiny and creativity. The hand in the field is equal to the brain in the reactor.......I don't understand how a group of people lets say a race per se is identified as a class within the social fabric, of course the hand in the field is equal to the hand of the reactor in the collective sense at giving sometime back & producing something of value to the collective, however back to class if there is a hand in the field & a hand in the reactor there must be class divide in the sense that there abilities therefore impact there earning potential, that is of course unless you are prepared to pay a street sweeper the same salary as a chemical engineer.

The more realistic or accessible alternative is uniting the varied class structure under one political direction but upsetting the balance is counterproductive as not everyone can be a Rocket Scientist per se, there has to be this diversity in the labour market & divide within the class fabric to actually strike a real balance.
National Futurism is not Communism. Rather, it incorporates elements where there are positive and constructive ones to be found.......you mentioned it was based on the concept of Aryan Communism how does it differ then say the traditional sense of Communism, as it is more likely a progression from one to the next therefore it must share distanct ideological comparisions, wouldn't you agree? somewhat communism with an emphasis on sustaining the Aryan concept.National Futurism does not want to abolish respective cultures and traditions of the Indo-European heritage. Rather, it unifies them under the banner of a common purpose.......that sounds reasonable & of course is shows an element of protectionism in it's construct
The reason for the Race's existence is clearly expansion. This has been proven on manifold occasions throughout history. Therefore, National Futurism strives to maintain a high level of excellence in the fields of science and technology.........definitely sounds progressive & with a distinct agenda in mind.
We need no more farms. We need mass-produced genetically engineered super-crops that will nourish the now needy. We need bigger cities and larger airports. We need to break the barriers of time and space.........then how is the hand in the field equal to the hand in the plant when there are no farms?
Technocratic values must be deeply ingrained in the psyche of the people. We must destroy in order to create. Down with the old, up with the new!.......no need for destruction just to build upon the old in the sense of a progressive improvement to shape the new.
National Futurism has declared war on senile values and concepts. While statues in marble might be pretty, heroically expressive and quaint, the deafening roar of a jet propulsion engine surpasses art and symbolizes the shift in values in that it provides a physical example of the Race's power to move faster and higher.

PHOENIX PHILOSOPHY: First we must produce the ashes. Then we can raise the proverbial Phoenix.

Constantin.....this all sounds quite interesting, however I think a combination of old mixed with the new is somewhat better, for example simple things such as a stroll in the park rather then an overly modernised metropolis, however modernisation in the sensible manner is fine but with an emphasis on valuing the things around it.:)

Oskorei
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:05 PM
......I don't understand how a group of people lets say a race per se is identified as a class within the social fabric, of course the hand in the field is equal to the hand of the reactor in the collective sense at giving sometime back & producing something of value to the collective, however back to class if there is a hand in the field & a hand in the reactor there must be class divide in the sense that there abilities therefore impact there earning potential, that is of course unless you are prepared to pay a street sweeper the same salary as a chemical engineer.

The more realistic or accessible alternative is uniting the varied class structure under one political direction but upsetting the balance is counterproductive as not everyone can be a Rocket Scientist per se, there has to be this diversity in the labour market & divide within the class fabric to actually strike a real balance.
Classes and occupations are not the same. In most Marxist literature the Rocket Scientist belongs to the same class as the Industrial Worker, main difference being that the Rocket Scientist has a higher education. His work is hence capable of creating more value, and his wage is higher. But both are Wage Workers.

Classes are defined from the relationship to capital and land. He who owns capital and extracts profit without working, belongs to the Capitalist class. He who does not own capital, and has to work for wages using other peoples capital, is a Wage Worker (there are combinations of these as well, and some less numerous classes, Self-Employed, Landlords, Lumpen Proletariat, Lazarus Proletariat and so on).

Idle wealth has always been an abnormity to our ancestors, as has usury. This was one of the main objections to the Jews. So it is important that the future society, National Futurist or not, ensures that wealth is put to use, and that the Capitalists are forced to use their money for the good of the Volk. The alternative is Nationalisation.

Oskorei
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:07 PM
I agree that the term "Aryan class" is somewhat weird though, and mixes a concept from biology with one from political economy. But that may be the privilege of artists and visionaries methinks ;)

Prussian
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:34 PM
Classes and occupations are not the same. In most Marxist literature the Rocket Scientist belongs to the same class as the Industrial Worker, main difference being that the Rocket Scientist has a higher education. His work is hence capable of creating more value, and his wage is higher. But both are Wage Workers.........I am referring to the class status of lower, middle & upper class in this sense & being obviously what the wage consists of impacts on the class position often due to the occupation in question.

Marx's interpretations of how he himself defines the class structure in question are appropriate as a guideline to categorising these differences but I don't see the purpose in creating one unified class rather I believe it is a lot better if we can give the varying classes value within the context of bringing them under the purpose of one political direction.

With this in mind they can work in a more defined matter as to serving a purpose & of course whilst bringing into the fold authorities to cover exploitation from parties involved, I believe that this type of monitoring in the labour market to be progressive & justified, it is just a matter of constantly improving & fine tuning such a practice to be applicable to take the bumps in the road so to say.

With concerns to Wage workers, I believe that there must be private industry to be able to support the wage earners because the means of the state alone in state production efforts cannot support the demands of a growing state, rather it is better to begin incorporating private industry on a National level which in turn helps stimulate growth rather then to repeat dodgied up production sheets of communist block countries to some how sweep away their inefficient practices or inability to provide for the state so to speak.

Simply one or the other does not work well alone but together with a common purpose in mind & an authority figure to keep to these guidelines to keep production & labour on track at the end of the day it serves not only a greater purpose but also stimulates growth when carefully managed.

Yes Nationalisation I believe is healthier, but that might also be due to my political orientation in the sense of belief.:)

ogenoct
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 09:39 PM
you mentioned it was based on the concept of Aryan Communism
Actually, I said that "Aryan Communism" is an integral part of National Futurism. This does not mean that the former is the leading principle of the latter. If one views humanity as a conglomerate of different racial elements which in turn have varied characteristics, it becomes clear that, analogous to the Marxist notion of a class-structured society, each race can be classified as a class in itself, within the larger framework of the humanoid bio-structure. The Aryan class is the only one that is capable of originally creating something. Creativity equals labor. Hence, the European people make up nature's true proletarian aristocracy. The European genius is based on discovery and invention. Nevertheless, the Aryan class is able not only to labor but to dominate its surroundings through its application of a man-centered view of the universe. This means that other (inferior) races might be able to copy great Aryan achievements, but they will always be trapped in the bubble of their dependence on the natural cycle. In contrast, the Aryan is able to break out of the biological sphere to put himself outside nature itself. He is thus able to dominate his environment through his sheer will to power, expressed in his desire to reach the status of the final stage of superhumanity - by escaping the limiting stage of his terran prison.

Constantin

Prussian
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 10:25 PM
Actually, I said that "Aryan Communism" is an integral part of National Futurism. This does not mean that the former is the leading principle of the latter. If one views humanity as a conglomerate of different racial elements which in turn have varied characteristics, it becomes clear that, analogous to the Marxist notion of a class-structured society, each race can be classified as a class in itself, within the larger framework of the humanoid bio-structure.Indeed if viewed that way it could indeed involve equating the seperate races as actual classes, however the question I raise is how about the varied classes that exist within this racial class? Obviously economic differences will emerge as a result mostly due to individual abilities thus defining one's occupation according to abilities, unless of course you designate everyone as a wage earner (on varying levels of wage according to ability)with this obvious economic classes will emerge, because I don't see a superstate being able to hold a high standard of living in a technocratic society without private enterprise along side state iniatives stimulating the overall state economy, therefore there must be individuals with capital willing to invest in private enterprise therefore signifying there is more then just a wage earning class within the new collective of the state, this of course within the context of a nationalised economy.

So basically I am suggesting that a huge technocratic type state needs the economic means to fund this progression, the means of the state alone cannot provide such things as the costs of such a state would be massive, rather a coordinated effort by both state & private production means is a more reasonable way to achieving this goal in the end, that of course with strict measures in place to making sure exploitation from either end does not occur, so in this setting we have more then just proletarian based society but a society which has very classes & through bringing them together politically you can unify them toward one singular directive & that is providing a means of progression for the state.The Aryan class is the only one that is capable of originally creating something. Creativity equals labor. Hence, the European people make up nature's true proletarian aristocracy. The European genius is based on discovery and invention. Nevertheless, the Aryan class is able not only to labor but to dominate its surroundings through its application of a man-centered view of the universe. This means that other (inferior) races might be able to copy great Aryan achievements, but they will always be trapped in the bubble of their dependence on the natural cycle. In contrast, the Aryan is able to break out of the biological sphere to put himself outside nature itself. He is thus able to dominate his environment through his sheer will to power, expressed in his desire to reach the status of the final stage of superhumanity - by escaping the limiting stage of his terran prison.

Constantin.....I am really enjoying watching your ideas evolve my friend & I find it quite productive to get involved with your ideas & have some form of discussion about them but what I don't get is the mention of a proletarian aristocracy, sounds like an oxy-moron to me unless of course you mean it in the sense of the race based class being the working elite in this new model system, then I understand perfectly what you are getting at.:)

ogenoct
Sunday, December 26th, 2004, 01:45 PM
what I don't get is the mention of a proletarian aristocracy, sounds like an oxy-moron to me unless of course you mean it in the sense of the race based class being the working elite in this new model system
The notion of a proletarian aristocracy is not an oxymoron when one views proletarianism in light of the gigantic columns that titans erect to commemorate their legacy. The National Futurist idea of the Worker is not one that invites comparisons with socialist realism. Rather, it denotes an absolute value in and of itself. Private enterprise shall not be abolished as it provides a stimulus for growth, both on a personal and collective level. Of course, commercial enterprises will be severely limited in their access to the populace, meaning that they will not be able to indiscriminately cater products that are of no intrinsic value. There are no class differences in the reborn society. As the masses themselves are the epitomical manifestation of the archetype of the Race, it is evident that the clarity with which they perceive themselves is nothing but the tacit acknowledgement of their own status within the ever-turning wheel of the divine seasons. Hence, class is race - the will to build is within the symbolic soul of nature's creators.

Respect for old people will be restricted since they were the ones that created the current mess. The future can only be glimpsed in the fierce and glaring eyes of the young radicals, unleashed by the Party's civilizing cadres to mercilessly punish the guilty. A lot of dirty old men will be ripped from their wheelchairs and thrown out into the open where the young wolves of the Party can rip them apart. Death to death itself!

Constantin

Prussian
Sunday, December 26th, 2004, 02:08 PM
The notion of a proletarian aristocracy is not an oxymoron when one views proletarianism in light of the gigantic columns that titans erect to commemorate their legacy. The National Futurist idea of the Worker is not one that invites comparisons with socialist realism. Rather, it denotes an absolute value in and of itself. Private enterprise shall not be abolished as it provides a stimulus for growth, both on a personal and collective level. Of course, commercial enterprises will be severely limited in their access to the populace, meaning that they will not be able to indiscriminately cater products that are of no intrinsic value. There are no class differences in the reborn society. As the masses themselves are the epitomical manifestation of the archetype of the Race, it is evident that the clarity with which they perceive themselves is nothing but the tacit acknowledgement of their own status within the ever-turning wheel of the divine seasons. Hence, class is race - the will to build is within the symbolic soul of nature's creators........ok thank you for outlining that, but I do believe that even in a society that politically theorises that there are no class boundaries there in fact is on some level or another, as equality is not universal in reality but only in theory.
Respect for old people will be restricted since they were the ones that created the current mess. The future can only be glimpsed in the fierce and glaring eyes of the young radicals, unleashed by the Party's civilizing cadres to mercilessly punish the guilty. A lot of dirty old men will be ripped from their wheelchairs and thrown out into the open where the young wolves of the Party can rip them apart. Death to death itself!

Constantin.......not such a good idea considering we have a rise in the aging population, with such actions from a young emerging political movement I don't believe you will last very long in the International Community with actions like this.

ogenoct
Sunday, December 26th, 2004, 06:24 PM
.......ok thank you for outlining that, but I do believe that even in a society that politically theorises that there are no class boundaries there in fact is on some level or another, as equality is not universal in reality but only in theory.
Equality is indeed only valid in theory, but equal opportunity to rule and serve is not. The updated slogan thus reads: "Equality, Freedom, Resistance!" Egalitarian concepts are to be revised to reflect the growing demand for justice that serves the majority in doses that do not overexert the individual sense of self-worth. Where is the firepower but in the collective awareness that one's neighbor is one's brother. The value lies in genetic and class-based social ethics, topped with the realization that the glow in one's eyes always will match the flow of another's pen.

.......not such a good idea considering we have a rise in the aging population, with such actions from a young emerging political movement I don't believe you will last very long in the International Community with actions like this.
A weary warrior might comment thus, but - alas! - the purported depths are shallow, and his commentaries are not flexed with the muscles of wit and dare. Rather, they are subdued by all the self-proclaimed "superior" (in reality disillusioned, with one foot in the grave) experience-gatherers. One must not be surprised at the amount of energy that can be harnessed by earnest seekers of the mytho-poetic Fountain of Youth when a nation wants to rejuvenate itself. The ageing vultures whine and pick the bones of the ones that a long time ago fell bravely, but the Party's new elite will show the tired and wrinkled bags of disease a never-before trodden path that has no place for the hogs' and hags' wining, dining and whining.

Constantin

Prussian
Monday, December 27th, 2004, 02:00 AM
Equality is indeed only valid in theory, but equal opportunity to rule and serve is not. The updated slogan thus reads: "Equality, Freedom, Resistance!" Egalitarian concepts are to be revised to reflect the growing demand for justice that serves the majority in doses that do not overexert the individual sense of self-worth. Where is the firepower but in the collective awareness that one's neighbor is one's brother. The value lies in genetic and class-based social ethics, topped with the realization that the glow in one's eyes always will match the flow of another's pen........indeed equality based on political grounds, somewhat something that gives an adhesive sense to forging the political will upon the collective.
A weary warrior might comment thus, but - alas! - the purported depths are shallow, and his commentaries are not flexed with the muscles of wit and dare. Rather, they are subdued by all the self-proclaimed "superior" (in reality disillusioned, with one foot in the grave) experience-gatherers. One must not be surprised at the amount of energy that can be harnessed by earnest seekers of the mytho-poetic Fountain of Youth when a nation wants to rejuvenate itself. The ageing vultures whine and pick the bones of the ones that a long time ago fell bravely, but the Party's new elite will show the tired and wrinkled bags of disease a never-before trodden path that has no place for the hogs' and hags' wining, dining and whining.

Constantin.......interesting not the way I would personally view the elderly as a whole (of course some are indeed as you describe but not representative as a whole)but interesting nevertheless.:)

Vlad Cletus
Friday, December 31st, 2004, 10:27 PM
Without the people's values, endurance and strength, the party is all but nothing. National Futurism respects many natural bonudaries, and natural thought, so that it can expand forth throughout not by force, that's what makes it anti-imperialistic.

I'm not sure about this whole idea of Technocratism though, as putting Technology over Human Will is against foundation and nature.

ogenoct
Saturday, January 1st, 2005, 06:38 PM
I'm not sure about this whole idea of Technocratism though, as putting Technology over Human Will is against foundation and nature.
Man is part of nature. Man is superior to nature. Man rules nature. Man destroys nature at will. Man is able to regulate nature. Nature has to bow down before the divinity of the God Race. The Nordic principle of the forestal cradle will be abolished. The Mines of Magnitude will be empty when the God Race is finished working inside of them. New areas will be conquered and exploited. Nature is merely the stage where the Great Play can be performed, with the divine tunes of the always present golden choir edging on the glorious task of cyclical destruction and construction. What is permanent in the blood stays permanent on the material plane. The will to crush equals the desire to erect. The Nordic twin principle of endless suffering and unlimited endurance is to be the beacon for the ones that victimize themselves for the sake of the shielding influence of the multitudes. HAIL the Martyrs of Madness!

Constantin

ogenoct
Tuesday, February 27th, 2007, 08:24 AM
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/fritzmaster18/nfupe_poster1.gif

Aethelwulf
Sunday, September 14th, 2008, 05:34 PM
This whole idea of National Futurism does sound interesting.

What is the view of National Futurism in regards to Racial (or White) Nationalism?


And also what is view of National Futurism in relation to National Anarchism?

Berrocscir
Sunday, September 28th, 2008, 12:48 PM
If my memory serves me correctly, a lot of N-As a few years ago were ridiculing Hofmeister. National Futurism doesn't seem to have much to say about the role (if any) of the State, N-As oppose it.

It seems to advocate a uniform eurasian order, something N-As would oppose in favour of small mono-ethnic communities. I'm still learning about N-A, but N-Futurism is not my cup of tea, to use an English expression. The two ideas don't seem to have much in common. N-Futurism seems to have a lot more in common with National Bolshevism.