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Relevant Range
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 12:25 AM
Can someone explain to an ignorant non-racist (that would be me) where this Hans F.K. Gunther got his ideas on the Alpines from? They're dull, lifeless, joyless, and possibly ugly in his view. They stride around on their "short, squat legs" with their "sullen" expressions, and "only a little of the neck is to be seen above the coat-collar, " with their beady little eyes (my interpretation of Guther's "small eyes.") Reminds me of a mafia goon enforcer type for some reason.

Sheesh. Isn't this a bit extreme, even in your view? If he's right, whatever the hell I am, I sure hope its not an Alpine.

I followed the link Ross posted about the English, and stumbled across this. I usually just lurk, as I don't share your beliefs, but I must admit, this makes me curious enough to ask.

Or, is this even a reliable source? It was certainly surprising to read something like this linked to Stormfront, anyways.

Ok, I'll shut up now. x_p



http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/reoehchap2d.htm


THE RACIAL ELEMENTS OF EUROPEAN HISTORY

Chapter II Part Four


THE BODILY CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EUROPEAN RACES

THE ALPINE RACE

THIS race is short, stocky, and square-built, thus offering, although of nearly the same height, an appearance which is quite different from that of the Mediterranean race. The latter is elegant and slender, the Alpine race is thick-set and broad. The average height of the Alpine man is about 1.63 metres. This small height is brought about by the relatively short, squat legs. This broadness and shortness is repeated in all the details: in the broadness of the hand and its short fingers, in the short, broad feet, in the thick, short calves. Seen in relation to its height the Mediterranean body gives an effect of heaviness. The pelvis in the woman would seem to be narrower than in the other European races. The shape of the head is likewise broad.


The Alpine race is short-headed and broad-faced. The cephalic index is about 88 on the average, the facial index under 83. In the Alpine race the length of the head is only a little or barely greater than the breadth, owing to the relatively considerable measurement of this latter. The Alpine head may be called round. It juts out only slightly over the nape, and this back part is fairly roomy, so that in the Alpine man only a little of the neck is to be seen above the coat-collar.


The cast of countenance gives the effect of dullness, owing to the steeply rising forehead, vaulted backwards, the rather low bridge to the nose, the short, rather flat nose, set clumsily over the upper lip, the unprominent, broad, rounded chin.

The fleshy parts carry on the impression of broadness and roundness, for the Alpine face, broad in itself, has often layers of fat, and in general, it would seem, a thicker outer covering. Deposits of fat are found on the upper part and the bridge of the nose, on the cheek-bones, and in and over the upper lid of the eye. The eyes give an effect of smallness (contrary to the effect of the eyes of the narrow-faced European races), since the opening between the lids is narrower and shorter; this opening sometimes takes a slightly upward direction outwards. The groove (philtrum) between the septum of the nose and the upper lip is often rather faintly marked. In old age, when the tissues become flabby and the deposits of fat disappear, the Alpines, especially the women, may grow very ugly.



The skin is a yellowish brown and has a very lifeless effect. The hair is stiff, sometimes almost wiry. The individual hair is thick. Its colour is brown to black; the beard is thinner than in the narrow-faced European races; the hair on the body, too, seems to be scantier.

The colour of the eyes is brown to brown-black, but has not so warm an effect as the brown of the Mediterranean eye. The expression of the eyes is dull, uncommunicative, or even sullen, at any rate without joyousness, an effect which is strengthened by their flat setting and the narrow opening of the lids.

Azdaja
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 12:42 AM
Yeah, some of his descriptions are hillarious! There is this one part where he says something to the effect that alpine villages always smell horrible because the alpines never bathe. As if not bathing was some kind of genetic characteristic shared by all members of this sub-race. LOL
I know I'll probably get slammed for this by some other posters, but I take Gunther with a couple grains of salt. I think he's got some great ideas, and he makes an interesting read. But at the same time, he is so overwhelmingly biased towards the nordic sub-race it makes one question nearly everything he says.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Kalos
But at the same time, he is so overwhelmingly biased towards the nordic sub-race it makes one question nearly everything he says.

There is no doubt that a person's bias can often have a significant effect on their works, etc. It is hard not to be biased though, we all are, but when doing a study on something like subrace, it is important to base it on facts! Personal opinion should come after facts, not intertwined with them. That's just trouble! :)

Ederico
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 01:33 PM
Hey I am Alpine, my skin is not yellowish brown and my hair is straight plus it is dark blonde to light golden brown or reddish brown anyways it is not dark. My eyes are medium brown. Perhaps I am not purely Alpine that is why. Yes Guenther has a bias against the non-Nordic Subraces.

Dominator
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Nazzjonalist
Yes Guenther has a bias against the non-Nordic Subraces.
Then again, Nordics are the Ideal!
His biased attitude is better characterized by the fact that he praise Dinarics so highly, considering his part Dinaric him self. I believe Dinarics are somehow to high praised, they display many signs of unhealthy social fortune. what comes to a even more contradicting setting is that Günther could be characterized as Sub Nordic in his own race (which is mixture of Alpine and Nordic) so then again, who is biased and whose not? im certainly not:D

Think about that.:king

Ross
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 02:22 PM
He praises not Hallstatts, but all Nordish types. Take a look at his pics.

Azdaja
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 03:36 PM
I think all of us are probably at least a little biased towards our own sub-race/s, and that's fine. It's good to have pride in who and what you are.
Problems start when people are unwilling to acknowledge their flaws; both as individuals and as racial types. My own racial makeup consists of nordic and dinaric traits, and I recognize the strengths and weaknesses of both of these types.
I do agree with Dominator that the nordic type is the Ideal, but it is not perfect. One thing I have noticed in the Hallstatt nords I've been friends with, is that they all lack what I would call "guile". They do not notice subtleties and cannot "read between the lines". They can oftentimes be conned and fooled much easier than the other European sub-types.
I think this comes from the fact that because they are confrontational and (usually) honourable, noble people by nature, they cannot really "get into the minds" of people who are not.
This is their achilles (sp?) heel, and I think it is even illustrated in Norse mythology via Loki the "trickster".

Dominator
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 04:06 PM
Beautiful post Kalos,

Very true, one of the things about Hallstatts which can turn negative is their to easy trust in others and their lack of scepticism ( but not always ) they do simply not understand other peoples coward motives towards them. another thing is they sometimes are abit distant from certain social interactions, they yearn for a meaning with all the rhetoric and they cannot use people to much if they do not have a together struggle or future hope together. they can sometimes be ruthless in order to strike forward by avoiding honour compromises.

NordicPower
Thursday, January 23rd, 2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Kalos
I think all of us are probably at least a little biased towards our own sub-race/s, and that's fine. It's good to have pride in who and what you are.
Problems start when people are unwilling to acknowledge their flaws; both as individuals and as racial types. My own racial makeup consists of nordic and dinaric traits, and I recognize the strengths and weaknesses of both of these types.
I do agree with Dominator that the nordic type is the Ideal, but it is not perfect. One thing I have noticed in the Hallstatt nords I've been friends with, is that they all lack what I would call "guile". They do not notice subtleties and cannot "read between the lines". They can oftentimes be conned and fooled much easier than the other European sub-types.
I think this comes from the fact that because they are confrontational and (usually) honourable, noble people by nature, they cannot really "get into the minds" of people who are not.
This is their achilles (sp?) heel, and I think it is even illustrated in Norse mythology via Loki the "trickster".

Yes, and as I have found out these noble qualities of innocence, caring and loyalty are quite bad qualities to have in the United States. People will take advantage of you, trick you and use you. Nordish people definitely need our own land.

Oh well, experience is the best teacher.

goidelicwarrior
Friday, December 30th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Can someone explain to an ignorant non-racist (that would be me) where this Hans F.K. Gunther got his ideas on the Alpines from? They're dull, lifeless, joyless, and possibly ugly in his view. They stride around on their "short, squat legs" with their "sullen" expressions, and "only a little of the neck is to be seen above the coat-collar, " with their beady little eyes (my interpretation of Guther's "small eyes.") Reminds me of a mafia goon enforcer type for some reason.

Sheesh. Isn't this a bit extreme, even in your view? If he's right, whatever the hell I am, I sure hope its not an Alpine.

I followed the link Ross posted about the English, and stumbled across this. I usually just lurk, as I don't share your beliefs, but I must admit, this makes me curious enough to ask.

Or, is this even a reliable source? It was certainly surprising to read something like this linked to Stormfront, anyways.

Ok, I'll shut up now. x_p
Gunther & Mccullough= insane.. no need to say more.. theory and theories..

Erbe
Sunday, September 17th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Gunther & Mccullough= insane.. no need to say more.. theory and theories..

Sorry, but i had to laugh to this for some reason because it's so short and straight said.