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Dagna
Saturday, June 28th, 2008, 11:26 PM
Norse-Gaels

The Norse-Gaels were a people who dominated much of the Irish Sea region and western Scotland for a large part of the Middle Ages, who were of Scandinavian and Norse origin and as a whole exhibited a great deal of Gaelic and Norse cultural syncretism. They are generally known by the Gaelic name which they themselves used, of which "Norse-Gaels" is a translation. This term is subject to a large range of variations depending on chronological and geographical differences in the Gaelic language, i.e. Gall Gaidel, Gall Gaidhel, Gall Gaidheal, Gall Gaedil, Gall Gaedhil, Gall Gaedhel, Gall Goidel, etc, etc. The terminology was used both by native Irish and native Scots who wished to alienate them, and by the Norse-Gaels themselves who wished to stress their Scandinavian heritage and their links with Norway and other parts of the Scandinavian world. The nativised presence of Norsemen in Ireland also lent at least one self-reference, that of Ostmen. Other modern translations used include Scoto-Norse, Hiberno-Norse and Foreign Gaels.

The Norse-Gaels originated in Viking colonies of Ireland and Scotland who became subject to the process of Gaelicization, whereby starting as early as the ninth century, most intermarried with native Gaels (except for the Norse who settled in Cumbria) and adopted the Gaelic language as well as many other Gaelic customs. Many left their original worship of Norse gods and converted to Christianity, and this contributed to the Gaelicization. Gaelicized Scandinavians dominated the Irish Sea region until the Norman era of the twelfth century, founding long-lasting kingdoms, such as the Kingdoms of Man, Argyll, Dublin, York and Galloway. The Lords of the Isles, a Lordship which lasted until the sixteenth century, as well as many other Gaelic rulers of Scotland and Ireland, traced their descent from Norse-Gaels. The Norse-Gaels settlement in England was concentrated in the [[North West England|North West]

Ireland

The Norse are first recorded in Ireland in 795 when they sacked Lambay Island. Sporadic raids then continued until 832, after which they began to build fortified settlements throughout the country. Norse raids continued throughout the tenth century, but resistance to them increased. They suffered several defeats at the hands of Malachy II, and in 1014 Brian Boru broke the power of the Norse permanently at Clontarf.

The Norse established independent kingdoms in Dublin. Waterford. Wexford, Cork and Limerick. These kingdoms did not survive the subsequent Norman invasions, but the towns continued to grow and prosper. The Norse became fully absorbed into the religious and political life of Ireland.

Iceland and the Faroes

It is recorded in the Landnamabok that there were papar or culdees in Iceland before the Norse, and this appears to tie in with comments of Dicuil. However, whether or not this is true, the settlement of Iceland and the Faroe islands by the Norse would have included many Norse-Gaels, as well as slaves, servants and wives. They were called "Vestmen", and the name is retained in Vestmanna in the Faroes, and the Vestmannaeyjar off the Icelandic mainland, where it is said that Irish slaves escaped to. ("Vestman" may have referred to the lands and islands "west" of mainland Scandinavia.)

A number of Icelandic personal names are of Gaelic origin, e.g. Njáll Þorgeirsson of Njáls saga had a forename of Gaelic origin - Niall. Patreksfjörður, an Icelandic village also contains the name "Padraig".

According to some circumstantial evidence, Grímur Kamban, seen as the founder of the Norse Faroes, may have been a Norse Gael.

"According to the Faereyinga Saga... the first settler in the Faroe Islands was a man named Grímur Kamban - Hann bygdi fyrstr Færeyar, it may have been the land taking of Grímur and his followers that cauysed the anchorites to leave... the nickname Kamban is probably Gaelic and one interpretation is that the word refers to some physical handicap, another that it may point to his prowess as a sportsman. Probably he came as a young man to the Faroe Islands by way of Viking Ireland, and local tradition has it that he settled at Funningur in Eysturoy."

Modern names

Even today, many surnames connected particularly with Gaeldom are of Norse origin, especially in the Western Isles and Isle of Man.

Surnames

Gaelic Anglicised form "Son of-"
MacAsgaill MacAskill Ásketill
MacAmhlaigh MacAulay, MacAuliffe Óláfr
MacCorcadail MacCorquodale/Corquadale, Corkill, McCorkindale Þorketill
MacIomhair MacIver, MacIvor Ívarr (Ingvar)
MacShitrig[3] MacKitrick, McKittrick Sigtryggr
MacLeòid MacLeod Ljótr (lit. "the ugly one")[4]

Forenames

Gaelic Anglicised form Norse equivalent
Amhlaibh (confused with the Gaelic name Amhlaidh/Amhalghaidh) Aulay (Olaf) Óláfr
Goraidh Gorrie (Godfrey, Godfred), Orree (Isle of Man) Godfriðr
Iomhar Ivor Ívarr (Ingvar)
Raghnall Ranald (Ronald, Randall) Rögnvaldr
Somhairle Sorley (sometimes Englished as "Samuel") Sumarliði (Somerled)
Tormod NA (Englished as "Norman") Þormundr
Torcuil Torquil Torkill, Þorketill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse-Gaels

Boernician
Monday, July 7th, 2008, 08:32 AM
Well there still there in the Orkneys though all English speakers now.Germanc and Celtic mixing was as common as warring in antiquity many of the ancient tribes of Northwest Europe were combinations of both people In some cases the Romans could not discern if they were Celt or German such as the Cimbri who combined with Teutons handed Rome the greatest defeat in its History and greatest defeat of Ancient History the battle of Arausio where they and their Teuton allies killed over 110,000 Romans.
I am a descendant of Thorfinn Yarl of Orkney(as is most anyone of Scottish, Cumbrian or Northumbrian blood).
As most people think in terms of nation states but those are recent developments. The Celts and Germanic people have been merging everywhere over northwest Europe from about 200 B.C. to 1100 aD. Recently I had a DNA test looking for deep ancestry that is similar genetic clades to mine. I match this against my genealogical information. It matched fairly well indeed. It showed clades in Sweden, Germany, Wales Ireland and Scotland. Also in Belgium, Netherlands and in Lille France. Well of course those are the lands of the Celtic tribes the Belgae, who were later overrun by the Goths, then Vikings. Of course there's always a surprise in those things, mine was one great grandparent turned out to be a mixture of Austrian and Hungarian and some Polish influence from areas that were predominately Germanic like Pomerania. Oddly enough the most common mixtures in United States are Irish and German.

Oswiu
Monday, July 7th, 2008, 11:13 AM
The Norse-Gaels settlement in England was concentrated in the North West
More specifically, Cumberland, Westmorland and the maritime regions of Lancashire.

There are thus several 'Ireby's in the area. It seems that where I come from, these fellows were just dismissed as 'Irish' rather than anything more qualified! :p

An important thing to notice is that these regions were intimately connected with the Danish Kingdom of Jorvik (York) on the eastern side of the Pennines (roughly corresponding with modern Yorkshire). The last King was indeed assassinated on his way across Stanemoor - the 'highway' between these zones - probably in an attempt to link up with Irish-Norse allies on the western seaboard.

Traces remain in Yorkshire toponymy of the Irish Viking impact - notably the town Melmersby - with the Norse endiing -by and the Irish forename Maelmaer.

MacShitrig[3]
Delightful... :p
Sometimes Anglicisation of surnames in Ireland came as a blessing! :D

solbrun
Tuesday, September 1st, 2009, 05:35 PM
I have both Orcadian and Faroese heritage so Norse-Gael would be my ancestry too, but was Norn Orkney's language only? xD Sometimes i wonder how many language they had, but i haven't looked it up too much yet.

GreenIce
Monday, November 30th, 2009, 09:58 PM
Norse-Gaels? This is a ridiculous term, I hear it for the first time. I think it's a bit exagerated.

I have both Orcadian and Faroese heritage so Norse-Gael would be my ancestry too, but was Norn Orkney's language only? xD Sometimes i wonder how many language they had, but i haven't looked it up too much yet.
Of course, Norn hasn't been Orkney's only language ever, as the islands have been inhabited for many thousand years. Prior to vikings invasion of Orkney its population must have been speaking some kind of Celtic and/or Pictish (depends on whether we consider Pictish a Celtic language or something totally different). What languages existed in Orkney before Picts is absolutely beyond our knowledge. After Pictish there was Old Norse, which gradually turned into Norn, and then was succeeded by Scots English with which it mixed a lot.

Méldmir
Monday, November 30th, 2009, 10:37 PM
Norse-Gaels? This is a ridiculous term, I hear it for the first time. I think it's a bit exagerated.

Why is it a stupid term? As far as I know, the term Foreign-Gael or Norse-Gael existed already back in the middle-ages and was used by the Irish. If you look at old names today in the British Isles and also Iceland, you can see names that have both an Irish and Norse origin combined, also personal names like that still exist. So the Norse-Gaels were probably around back in the day, and they have left many marks.

GreenIce
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 11:38 PM
Why is it a stupid term? As far as I know, the term Foreign-Gael or Norse-Gael existed already back in the middle-ages and was used by the Irish. If you look at old names today in the British Isles and also Iceland, you can see names that have both an Irish and Norse origin combined, also personal names like that still exist. So the Norse-Gaels were probably around back in the day, and they have left many marks.
Why I don't like the term, as it is exposed in the beginning of this topic, is because it makes believe there was a "creole" ethnic group which spread out from Irish Sea to Iceland. This is what I consider to be an exaggeration (although it could possibly apply to the inhabitants of Hebrides and close areas who inherit both Goidhelic and Norse traits).

In this respect you should be careful with placenames. F.ex if we speak about Iceland many of its "Celtic" placenames refer to Irish munks who came to Iceland for reclusion and when the Norse colonisation started, the Irish prefered to leave. No "Gaelic-Norse" alliance was formed, as you see.

Let's consider another example, Patreksfjörđur. The fiord was named after St. Patrick which was the spiritual guide of the first settler at that place. So the naming of the place didn't involve any "physical" Gael, being just a witness about British/Irish roots of Christianity in Iceland.

It is also known that vikings took slaves and women from Gaelic areas in British Isles and brought them to Faroes, Iceland etc. Some of these slaves were set free and continued living with Norsemen. However, the low number of Celtic loanwords in Icelandic and Faroese makes us suppose that these Gaels were quick to dissolve among Norsemen, leaving just a few personal names (Kjartan, Njáll,...) and placenames (f.ex. Dímon).

But that's just another proof that vikings, like many other invadors groups of those times (Huns, Goths etc) were not 100% ehtnically clean.

Méldmir
Thursday, December 3rd, 2009, 01:43 AM
Why I don't like the term, as it is exposed in the beginning of this topic, is because it makes believe there was a "creole" ethnic group which spread out from Irish Sea to Iceland. This is what I consider to be an exaggeration (although it could possibly apply to the inhabitants of Hebrides and close areas who inherit both Goidhelic and Norse traits).

In this respect you should be careful with placenames. F.ex if we speak about Iceland many of its "Celtic" placenames refer to Irish munks who came to Iceland for reclusion and when the Norse colonisation started, the Irish prefered to leave. No "Gaelic-Norse" alliance was formed, as you see.

Let's consider another example, Patreksfjörđur. The fiord was named after St. Patrick which was the spiritual guide of the first settler at that place. So the naming of the place didn't involve any "physical" Gael, being just a witness about British/Irish roots of Christianity in Iceland.

It is also known that vikings took slaves and women from Gaelic areas in British Isles and brought them to Faroes, Iceland etc. Some of these slaves were set free and continued living with Norsemen. However, the low number of Celtic loanwords in Icelandic and Faroese makes us suppose that these Gaels were quick to dissolve among Norsemen, leaving just a few personal names (Kjartan, Njáll,...) and placenames (f.ex. Dímon).

But that's just another proof that vikings, like many other invadors groups of those times (Huns, Goths etc) were not 100% ehtnically clean.

Ok ok, but an exaggaration isn't the same as the term being silly. If the Norse-Gaels did exist, even if it was only in and around the Hebrides, the term is not wrong. What influence they may have had on Iceland doesn't really matter, even though they may have actually ruled both Iceland and the Faroes for some time.

GreenIce
Monday, December 7th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Ok ok, but an exaggaration isn't the same as the term being silly. If the Norse-Gaels did exist, even if it was only in and around the Hebrides, the term is not wrong.
Well, I didn't use the word 'silly', it was you who took it up ;)

My objection was not directed at the fact that there was a mixed Norse-Gael group somewhere in Irish Sea. In fact it's not a big deal at all, there's been such creole mixtures between Scots and Gaels, Scots and Norsemen, Picts and Gaels etc. etc. But this article makes us believe that Norse-Gaels, instead of being a small local group, reigned in the whole North Atlantic and gave names to places like Patreksfjörđur, Vestmannaeyjar etc. That's certainly overstated and based on misunderstanding.


What influence they may have had on Iceland doesn't really matter, even though they may have actually ruled both Iceland and the Faroes for some time.
"Norse-Gaels" ruled in Iceland? Iceland didn't obey any external power until it joined Kingdom of Norway in 1262. As I've said, there's very few Celtic borrowings in Icelandic, which only can mean Norsemen who were coming to this place were absolutely dominating.

Méldmir
Monday, December 7th, 2009, 09:57 PM
"Norse-Gaels" ruled in Iceland? Iceland didn't obey any external power until it joined Kingdom of Norway in 1262. As I've said, there's very few Celtic borrowings in Icelandic, which only can mean Norsemen who were coming to this place were absolutely dominating.


Well, I read that Aud the Deep-Minded may have ruled at least a part of Iceland, and she may have been a part of this group (note "may". As well as Grímur Kamban, founder of the Faroe Islands. More on that on wikipedia. But of course it's just speculation since we don't know so much about that part of history. But I wouldn't be suprised if the Norse-Gaels had infleucne in Iclenad and the Faroes as well, if one looks both at the genetic make up of these regions and historic legends.

GreenIce
Saturday, December 12th, 2009, 01:45 AM
Aud the Deep-Minded, or Auđr djúpúđga Ketilsdóttir was Norse, as were her parents, Yngveldr Ketilsdóttir and Ketill flatnef. She spent part of her youth in Hebrides where she was converted to Christianity and later she married Olaf King of Dublin. But I don't dare to say that she was a "Norse-Gael", because at the time she lived (the 800's) the viking invasion to British Isles had just begun and Norsemen were only starting coming to Iceland.

Amerikaner
Friday, November 1st, 2019, 11:07 PM
Norse-Gaels? This is a ridiculous term, I hear it for the first time. I think it's a bit exagerated.


You're a Norse-Gael. You're from Iceland. You're a Norse-Gael. That's what people from Iceland are, the descendants of Norse men who took Irish women with them to Iceland and had families.

Luminous Terror
Thursday, November 7th, 2019, 05:55 AM
You're a Norse-Gael. You're from Iceland. You're a Norse-Gael. That's what people from Iceland are, the descendants of Norse men who took Irish women with them to Iceland and had families.

Icelanders have Irish heritage (mostly from Irish slave women brought by the colonists), but they're not Norse-Gaels. Norse-Gaels were those Norsemen who integrated into Gaelic society and adopted Gaelic ways of life, while Icelanders never adopted Gaelic practices

Sigurdsson
Friday, November 8th, 2019, 04:03 PM
Extremely interesting group of people.

Gegenschlag
Saturday, December 14th, 2019, 03:26 PM
People in Ireland/NI often like to refer to themselves as part Viking. Viking heritage is always seen as a positive despite the pillages, etc. Looks-wise though, most of them are Keltic and Brünn. :)


You're a Norse-Gael. You're from Iceland. You're a Norse-Gael. That's what people from Iceland are, the descendants of Norse men who took Irish women with them to Iceland and had families.

Willingly?

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, June 7th, 2020, 05:36 AM
My username is practically a substitute for Norse-Gael, but forked with the Swedes of Finland (Rodskarl) and Danes of Ireland (Dubhgall), because I wanted to be comprehensive for the whole Norse experience. I've wondered what it would have been like to live in Galloway, Dublin and the Isle of Mann. McLachlan and Sutherland are also Norse-Gael names.

jagdmesser
Thursday, July 8th, 2021, 01:08 PM
brief history of Clan MacNicol.



The Highland Clan MacNeacail (MacNicol): A History of the Nicolsons of Scorrybreac by W. David H. Sellar and Alasdair Maclean. David Sellar is the current Lord Lyon.


https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/book.jpg







TIMELINES

As you read through this brief history of Clan MacNicol, take the time to understand the period of history by reviewing thehistorical timeline (http://digital.nls.uk/scotlandspages/timeline.html) provided by the National Library of Scotland. A more accessible timeline (http://digital.nls.uk/scotlandspages/1000-1500.html) can also be viewed which provides links to major events in Scottish history.


EARLY HISTORY OF CLAN MACNICOL

Clan MacNicol has a long and proud history of over 800 years in the Hebrides and Western Highlands. The Chief of the Clan, MacNeacail (MacNicol or Nicholson) of Scorrybreac, took his designation from his land near Portree on the Isle of Skye. The islands of Lewis and Skye where the MacNicols lived remained part of the Scandinavian kingdom of Mann (the Isle of Man) and the Isles, under the suzerainty of Norway, until 1266. The MacNeacails, like the Macleods with whom they are closely associated, are of Scandinavian origin, and their ancestors likely belonged to the House of Ivar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C3%AD_%C3%8Dmair), a medieval Norse dynasty that had great power in the British Isles and Scandinavia. The lands in which they lived were part of the mixed Norse-Gaelic Kingdom of Man until 1266 and the remaining early records remaining of the MacNeacails place the clan among the Gallowglasses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallowglass): Viking bands who had intermarried with the native Celtic population and participated in the tribal wars of early medieval Ireland. According to George Eyre-Todd, the MacNicol race was the earliest Celtic clan to inhabit the northern Hebrides.David Sellar believes the progenitor of the Clan likely lived in the mid-13th century; however two genealogies produced in the 15th century take the earlier ancestry of the MacNeacails back to the Viking princes of 10th century Dublin. One tradition claims that one of their first settlements in Scotland was in the district of Coigach, Ullapool and Assynt on the north-western mainland: lands received from the thane of Sutherland for the service of the MacNicol chief against other bands of Viking raiders. Another tradition locates them in the Hebrides: the 17th-century Skye historian Hugh MacDonald claimed that a MacNicol was among the island chieftains killed in a rebellion against the Norwegian king Olaf the Red in c.1150. The name 'MacNicol's Castle' is given to two ancient ruins, in Coigach and in Stornoway, Isle of Lewis, appearing to corroborate these early traditions. David Sellar has speculated that the ancient arms of the MacLeods of Lewis may have been inherited from the MacNicols who had an earlier foothold in the Western Isles - the depiction of a burning mountain on a field of gold could refer to the custom of Norse chieftains lighting beacons to guide the King of Norway's ships through the Hebridean islands safe from shipwreck.


EPONYMOUS ANCESTOR

The common ancestor of the Clan is thought to be Nicail or Nicholas, a name (https://clanmacnicol.org/origins-of-the-name) popular in Scandinavia, who lived in the mid-13th century. Clan MacNicol of Lewis was well established by the time the MacLeods began a rise to power. The MacLeods of Lewis appear to have inherited or stolen their considerable possessions through marriage with a MacNicol heiress in the 14th century. The ancestral Nicail, therefore, probably lived in Lewis, where he and his ancestors would have served the kings of Mann and the Isles in a mixed Norse and Gaelic environment.


MACNICOL CLAN ON THE ISLE OF LEWIS

The first MacNicol Chief on record, early in the 14th century, is John, son of Nicail (Gaelic, MhicNeacail), also known as Maknakill, Mak Nakyl and Macnakild. He is recorded in the company of leading Hebridean Chiefs to include the MacDonald, MacDougall and MacRuairi descendants of Somerled (d. 1164), who had wrested control of the southern Hebrides from the king of Mann. He was courted by Edward II as a potential ally in the War of Independence. However if the account in John Barbour's poem The Bruce can be credited, he played a major role in the Scottish campaigns against the English armies in Ireland in 1316. John was perhaps the leading man on Lewis.In the late 17th century the origin of the MacNeacails, MacLeods, Macaulays and Morrisons was documented in an historical account of Lewis. John Morisone, self-described "Indweller" of Lewis, writing sometime between about 1678 and 1688, stated that the early inhabitants of Lewis were three men from three separate races.



The first and most antient Inhabitants of this Countrie were three men of three severall races viz. Mores the son of Kenannus whom the Irish historiance call Makurich whom they make to be Naturall Sone to one of the Kings of Noruvay, some of whose posteritie remains in the land to this day. All Morisones in Scotland may challenge there descent from this man. The second was Iskair Mac.Awlay ane Irish man whose posteritie remain likvise to this day in the Lews. The third was Macknaicle whose onlie daughter Torquill the first of that name (and sone to Claudius the sone of Olipheous, who likewise is said to be the King of Noruway his sone,) did violentlie espouse, and cutt off Immediatlie the whole race of Macknaicle and possessed himself with the whole Lews and continueth to his posteritie (Macleud of Lews) dureing 13 or 14 generations and so extinct before, or at least about the year 1600 the maner of his decay I omitt because I intend no historie but a descriptione. — John Morisone, A Descriptione of the Lews.[NOTE: Claudius is an exuberant rendering of the name Leod!]




MACNICOL WARRIORS

The MacNeacails flourished during the fourteenth century, and during that time owned much of the Isle of Lewis. It is believed that the MacNeacails formed part of two large Viking bands (http://www1.freewebs.com/axanor/svn.htm) which ravaged the east coast of England and formed colonies under the names of Nicol and Nicolson in Northumberland and Cumberland. They also spread to the area in Scotland now known as Argyll and are said to have sent warriors to participate in the tribal wars in Ireland. Some members of the clan settled in the north of Ireland where their descendants can still be found today.In 1314, Robert Bruce, King of Scotland, defeated Edward II of England at the Battle of Bannockburn. Soon after he sent an army commanded by his brother Edward Bruce to help the Irish fight the Anglo-Normans. In September 1315 he besieged Carrickfergus Castle and burned the town. Attempts to bring food to the castle failed and by April 1316 the starving English garrison were forced to eat animal hides. It was even rumoured that they ate 8 Scottish prisoners.


https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/warriors.jpg

Spearman arrived to the aid of the Bruce



If the account in John Barbour's poem The Bruce can be credited, he played a major role in the Scottish campaigns against the English armies in Ireland in 1316. At the seige of Carrickfergus Castle in 1316, MacNicol and his spearmen supported Edward Bruce, brother of Robert the Bruce and High King of Ireland, against the English. In September 1316 the castle finally surrendered and Edward Bruce was able to use it as a base for further attacks on the Anglo-Normans. It remained under his control until he was killed in battle in 1318.According to Sellar, possibly one of the earliest references to a Clan MacNeacail chief appears in a passage from John Barbour's epic The Bruce, which dates to about 1375. Sellar believes that the Maknakill recorded may be the chief, or at least a close relative to the chief of Clan MacNeacail. The passage below recounts the siege of Carrickfergus Castle in April 1316, by Edward Bruce, brother of Robert I.



For to ye fycht Maknakill yen
Com with twa hundreth sper-menAnd yai slew all yai mycht to-wyn
Yis ilk Maknakill with a gyn
Wan off yar schippis four or fyve
And haly reft ye men yar lif. - John Barbour, The Bruce
MacNicol came then to the fight
with two hundred spearmen
and they slew all they could reach.This same MacNicol captured
four or five of their ships by a strategem
and utterly deprived the men of their lives.




During Bruce's siege, Sir Thomas Mandeville arrived in Dublin with 15 ships in an attempt to lift the siege. Sellar argued that the arrival of Maknakill would have played a large part in preventing Mandeville from relieving the castle. Sellar is of the opinion that the "Maknakill" recorded in The Bruce may be the same as the "mak Nakyl" and "macnakild" recorded in 1306 and 1315. In 1306, letters were delivered from Edward I of England to the Earl of Ross, Lachlan MacRuairi, his brother Ruairi, and John “Mak Nakyl". In 1315, Edward II of England instructed John MacDougall of Argyll to receive Donald MacDonald, his brother Godfrey, Sir Patrick Graham and John "macnakild" into the king's peace. According to Sellar, since the MacDougalls, MacDonalds and MacRuairis mentioned were all prominent Hebridean leaders it is quite likely the “Mak Nakyl" and “Macnakild" was also a Hebridean leader.




https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/heiress.jpg



Sellar considered the possibility that the arms may represent the MacNicols' subordinate duty as coast watchers for the early Norse kings in the Isles. The early MacLeod of Lewis arms was recorded in the mid 15th century and is blazoned Or, a rock azure in flames gules. After seeing what happened with MacNicol fortune, the MacLeods changed the rule book on inheritance. No longer would it be permitted to leave such wealth to an heiress; instead it must be passed to the closest male heir.



According to Sellar, it was at the time of the generation after John when the bulk of the clan lands passed into the hands of the Lewis Macleods: in the Hebrides, it was often claimed that this was achieved unlawfully, with the abduction and forced marriage of the MacNicol heiress by the MacLeod chief, and the sinking of a galley full of avenging MacNicol warriors on the coast off the island.
The coat of arms of the MacLeods of Lewis, which contains a black burning mountain on a gold field, probably passed into the possession of the MacLeods through the marriage to the MacNicol heiress.


https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/History/torquilArms.gif


Mid 15th century arms of Torquil's decendents, the MacLeods of Lewis. The arms are thought to be derived from those of the MacNicol's.







STORNOWAY CASTLE ON LEWIS

Stornoway, located on the East coast of the Isle of Lewis is said to have begun as a Viking settlement that progressively grew in a lovely natural harbor. The Norse domination of the Hebrides lasted from about 800 to 1266 AD. The town's name is believed to come from the word 'Stjornavgr', which means “Steering Bay” in Norse. Some time in the 1100’s a castle was built proudly overlooking the town by the MacNicol Clan.


https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/stornaway.jpg


The Remains of Stornoway Castle (Castle MacNicol)



Stornoway Castle was annexed by Leod, predecessor to the MacLeods of Lewis. From about the beginning of the 14th century, the island was under the control of the Macleod's of Lewis also known as 'Siol Torquil' ('Torquil's Seed').Clan disputes flared through the 1500s and the MacLeods remained a thorn in the side of the Edinburgh government. In 1597 James VI adopted a new approach to resolving the problems posed by his Gaelic-speaking subjects. He leased Lewis to a group of lowland businessmen called the ‘Fife Adventurers’ and authorised them to use all means necessary, including what would today be called genocide, to "root out the barbarous inhabitants". The Fife Adventurers were beaten off by the MacLeods, and finally gave up after a third attempt in 1608. In response, James VI withdrew the MacLeod's charter in 1610 and granted Lewis to the MacKenzies of Kintail, who ran their estates from afar.Stornoway Castle was destroyed by Cromwell’s forces in 1653 and the last remains of it removed in 1852 to provide foundations for a pier. The site of the castle is now under the ferry terminal.



https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/History/Stornoway%20Castle%20-%20center%20slight%20to%20the%20right.jp g


The Remains of Stornoway Castle (Castle MacNicol), center, slightly to the right



MACNICOL CLAN ON THE ISLE OF SKYE

After the loss of the Clan lands on the Isle of Lewis, the male line of the MacNeacails continued and lived on the Isle of Skye at the house of Scorrybreac. During the 16th century MacNicol of Portree was identified as one of the 16 members of the Council of the Isles, which met at Finlaggan in Islay to advise The Lord of the Isles (http://thelastgaelicempire.webs.com/thecounciloftheisles.htm). After the dissolution of the Lordship, the Clan followed the MacDonalds of Sleat: Malcolmuill MacNicol and his brother Nicoll took part in the feud between the MacDonalds and Macleans; both were pardoned for acts of 'fire-raising and homicide' on Mull in 1563. A century later, Sorley MacNicol was listed as one of the 'friends and followers' who had supported Sir James MacDonald in raising his clan for the service of Charles I and the Marquis of Montrose in the Civil War.



https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/clan_lands/scorrybreachouseruins.jpgThe Remains of a 19th Century home built from
the Stones of the Scorrybreac House on Ben Torvaig
https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/clan_lands/scorrybreachousesite.jpgA Cairn marking the site of the
Scorrybreac House on Ben Torvaig




17th to 19th Centuries:


The Reverend Donald Nicolson of Scorrybreac, head of the Clan at the end of the 17th century, is reputed to have had 23 children, through whom he is a common ancestor of many Skye families. Donald's attachment to the Episcopalian faith, and refusal to swear allegiance to William III after 1689 seems to have resulted in his being driven from his parish as a Non-juror and Jacobite some time after 1696. The MacDonalds of Sleat avoided action in the 1745 rebellion, and the Nicolsons did not rise as a clan for Charles Edward Stuart (http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/jacobitesenlightenmentclearances/charlesedwardstuart/index.asp)(“Bonnie Prince Charlie”), but tradition maintains that a band of Nicolsons fought at Culloden in the Jacobite ranks. As a cousin of the intensely Jacobite MacLeods of Raasay, the chief, John Nicolson, appears to have assisted in the concealment of Charles Edward in a cow byre on his estates. John's descendants preserved a lock of the prince's hair, and the cup out of which he drank on his night on Scorrybreac lands.




https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/prince_charlie_cup.jpg
The cup that Prince Charlie drank
From during his stay at Scorrybreac
https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/prince_charles_hair.jpg
The hair of Prince Charles Edward Stewart
preserved by the Chief of Clan MacNicol and
passed down to the current chief




Another man of the Clan, Donald Nicolson from Raasay, also helped to protect the Young Pretender during his flight after the defeat, and was recorded by Bishop Robert Forbes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Forbes_(bishop)) in The Lyon in Mourning (http://www.electricscotland.com/history/charles/lyoninmourningor01forbuoft.pdf)(Vol 1) as suffering torture for his refusal to reveal the whereabouts of the prince after arrest by government troops. Alexander Mackenzie, in his History of Clan Mackenzies (http://www.fullbooks.com/History-Of-The-Mackenzies7.html), claims that Angus Nicolson of Stornoway raised 300 men from the island of Lewis for Jacobite service, only to be ordered back by a furious Earl of Seaforth when they landed on the mainland. During the 19th century the Clan was badly affected by the Highland Clearances in which many of the clansfolk were forced to emigrate from Scotland. In 1826, the Chief left his seat at Scorrybreac and his family settled in Tasmania.


20th-21st Century:

In the 1980s, Sir David Nicolson, 4th Baron Carnock was recognised by the Lord Lyon King of Arms as chief of Clan Nicolson. The heirs of the MacNeacail chiefship were however not content with this. Ian Nicolson, an Australian, petitioned the Lord Lyon to be recognised as Chief of the Nicolsons of Scorrybreac (Clan MacNeacail). In 1988 recognition was granted to Iain Norman Carmichael MacNeacail of MacNeacail and Scorrybreac as the Chief of the Highland Clan MacNeacail. Iain MacNeacail did much to advance the causes of the Clan. He and his beloved wife Pam took time to visit Clan members around the world and attend Clan events and regional Highland Games. In 1987, the Chief oversaw the Clan purchase of the Ben Chracaig estate, which makes up part of the original Scorrybreac lands. Today, this land is administered by Clan MacNeacail Trust, but is open to the general public free of charge. See the Clan Lands pages for more information on the Scorrybreac lands.



Upon his death on 15 Oct 2003, Iain’s son John Nicolson assumed his duites as John MacNeacail of MacNeacail and Scorrybreac, Chief of Clan MacNeacail. The current chief and his wife Jenni reside in Ballina, New South Wales, Australia.
https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/images/about/cliffwithworkingsword.jpg



Clan MacNicol North America Director Cliff Wolf with Scorrybreac holding a nearly 1000 year old “working sword” which has been passed down through the chief’s family for centuries.


The History, myths and legends surrounding Clan MacNicol are not limited to this page. Take the time to read these pages:

Other Traditions concerning Clan MacNicol (https://clanmacnicol.org/traditions-concerning-clan-macneacail)
Myths and legends involving Clan MacNicol (https://clanmacnicol.org/myth-and-legend)
Re-establishment of Clan MacNicol (https://clanmacnicol.org/re-establishment-clan-macneacail)





PUBLICATIONS

https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/default/files/images/BlueBadgeIcon_Publications.pngAll (https://clanmacnicol.org/all-online-newsletters) https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/default/files/images/BlueScorrybreac_NAicon.pngScorrybreac (https://clanmacnicol.org/scorrybreac-newsletter) https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/default/files/images/BlueSouthernCross_Austicon.pngThe Southern Cross (https://clanmacnicol.org/southern-cross) https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/default/files/UK-icon_1.pngThe United Kingdom (https://clanmacnicol.org/united-kingdom)

CALENDAR



10SEPQuebec Celtic Festival (https://clanmacnicol.org/quebec-celtic-festival)



view calendar (https://clanmacnicol.org/calendar)



NEWS FEED



2020 International Clan Gathering Postponed (https://clanmacnicol.org/news/2020-international-clan-gathering-postponed)
Clan MacNicol Lands Need You (https://clanmacnicol.org/news/clan-macnicol-lands-need-you)





LINKS









History of the Clann Nicail | The Real Clan MacNicol (https://therealclanmacnicol.wordpress.com/history-of-the-clann-nicail/)

https://therealclanmacnicol.wordpress.com/history-of-the-clann-nicail
All clan lands and banners were assumed by MacLeod of Lewis, in fact the royal charter in the name of Nicail, passed to Torcuil MacLeod, and the shield in his coat of arms was that of the ancient Nicail.





Of the many books written about the origin of Scottish Clans, The Highland CLANS of Scotland: Their History and Traditions by George Eyre-Todd has been a primary source of information on the Clans, to include information on Clan MacNicol. View an excerpt from the book (https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/documents/The%20Highland%20CLANS%20of%20Scotland%2 0Excerpt.pdf)discussing the origins of our Clan or view the entire book (https://clanmacnicol.org/sites/cmns.beracha.org/files/documents/The%20Highland%20Clans%20of%20Scotland.p df).

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, October 31st, 2021, 04:23 AM
People in Ireland/NI often like to refer to themselves as part Viking. Viking heritage is always seen as a positive despite the pillages, etc. Looks-wise though, most of them are Keltic and Brünn. :)



Willingly?

Disparaging British Islanders has a domino effect upon Faroese, Icelanders, Greenlanders and Vinlanders, most of whom having been put on a pedestal for their preservation of Germanic heritage. If they don't qualify, nobody does. We're all bloody lost then, so there are no real Germanics. Sounds like Cultural Marxism is constantly whittling away any and all contentment in who we are, sinking questions burning away and leaving us broken and in doubt.

As to the topic, there was a vague belief without strong evidence that my wife's rather common maiden name was Norse-Gael, but the only evidence from actual records is her English blood with a well-known Saxon placename in Surrey. It's true that one of her great-grandparents comes from a Northumbrian noble clan resident in the Lowlands since at least the reign of King David I. Many are grasping for straws to conjecture the fantasy narrative of something 'Celtic' because folks just don't have any proper dignity or self-respect for themselves without those insisting something more exotic than Anglo identity is more deserving of decency and acknowledgement of worth. That means Anglo-Saxons face hostilities from both Germanicists (for residing in Britain and/or America) and Celticists (for lording over Britons). We just don't win a PR game all the time and I find that this matters much less than it used to, for my esteem is that foreign and domestic cancers psychologically sapping our strength ought to be valued in the same token their instigators view us. 'Sod off', in layman's terms.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/41697-Ragnar-Lothbrok-s-dynasty-may-well-have-belonged-to-haplogroup-R1a-Z284?p=628985

It just so happens that my haplogroup subclade is identified as belonging to Björn Järnsida, which seems to match onomastic evidence on runestones found in common with the known history of the sagas. There's no need for assuming that Gaelic syncretism took part in all or most cases of Viking expansion, for the Danelaw, York and Lincoln especially, formed in entirely Germanic circumstances and those were the actual focal points of later conquests in the making of the North Sea Empire based in Winchester, a prototype of the Kalmar Union under Saxon royalty. Ireland and Scotland were always less important, whilst the North Atlantic colonies wouldn't have amounted to a hill of beans without our precedent.

Winterland
Monday, November 1st, 2021, 04:50 PM
Viking heritage is always seen as a positive despite the pillages, etc. Looks-wise though, most of them are Keltic and Brünn. I agree with this statement. A few of my descendants came from Orkney in the Northern Isles. I'm sure at first that they didn't like the Viking invasions during the 600-800's but integrated with Viking settlers over time, marrying and adopting Nordic surnames. Many warriors eventually settled and farmed, so they assimilated to Gaelic culture. Overall, "Orkney remained part of a Scandinavian kingdom until 1468 " until a Danish king offered it as a dowry for marriage to a Scots king. I don't believe that every Scot is of Nordic descent, probably around 7-23%; it depends on coastal region and trade routes. We also have a few French Norman names, in our family genealogy, who predominately settled and colonized the US.

To mention, Viking was a way of life: raiding, exploring, colonizing and trading beyond the stereo-typical label. So, it makes sense that Norse genetics mixed into some Gaelic territories as they established trade routes and cities like Dublin. Norwegians still heavily trade through international shipping and make good explorers as seen in the North and South Pole expeditions. Many older White Americans in the US are really mixed German, Scandinavian, and Gaelic descent unlike the current Millennial generation who tend to be mixed more with Hispanic, Italian and/or Slavic nowadays. In my opinion. it explains some of the anti-European Germanic identification in the US.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021, 01:30 AM
Viking heritage is always seen as a positive despite the pillages, etc. Looks-wise though, most of them are Keltic and Brünn. I agree with this statement. A few of my descendants came from Orkney in the Northern Isles. I'm sure at first that they didn't like the Viking invasions during the 600-800's but integrated with Viking settlers over time, marrying and adopting Nordic surnames. Many warriors eventually settled and farmed, so they assimilated to Gaelic culture. Overall, "Orkney remained part of a Scandinavian kingdom until 1468 " until a Danish king offered it as a dowry for marriage to a Scots king. I don't believe that every Scot is of Nordic descent, probably around 7-23%; it depends on coastal region and trade routes. We also have a few French Norman names, in our family genealogy, who predominately settled and colonized the US.On a lark, I went ahead and reactivated my yourDNAportal account to find that one calculator finally gave me 100% of one ancestry; Orcadian, which was a welcome surprise.


Tolan K14M1

Closest population distances
Population
Distance
Orcadian
0.927
British
1.467
Sweden
3.525

Admix 2 Oracle
Population
Value
Orcadian
100
This just shows that 1,000 years of intermarriage within English conditions wouldn't erase the roots of my forefathers and foremothers too.


To mention, Viking was a way of life: raiding, exploring, colonizing and trading beyond the stereo-typical label. So, it makes sense that Norse genetics mixed into some Gaelic territories as they established trade routes and cities like Dublin. Norwegians still heavily trade through international shipping and make good explorers as seen in the North and South Pole expeditions. Many older White Americans in the US are really mixed German, Scandinavian, and Gaelic descent unlike the current Millennial generation who tend to be mixed more with Hispanic, Italian and/or Slavic nowadays. In my opinion. it explains some of the anti-European Germanic identification in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_immigration_to_the_United_Sta tes#Population_in_1790

Referring to stereotypes, the Founding Fathers had already devised a coat of arms featuring the English rose, Scottish thistle, Irish shamrock, French fleur de lis, Dutch lion and German eagle to represent the native born population, but the first Federal census of 1790 included Swedish too--a legacy subgroup of the Dutch colony not on English or British royal arms and therefore, wasn't afforded any independent symbolism (even though Queen Anne's husband was Prince of Denmark-Norway). Back then, English was the majority in all 13 States, but since the 2000 census, this now includes Irish and German among the top in 50, with the visibility of former distinctions between Scottish, French and Dutch (with Swedish) subsumed into 'American', although there are still stray countywide examples of those others. Irish and German majorities are illusory, since they are both heirs of English and British descent, even if not necessarily in their male lineage; none of these present groups having any independent existence of the English and later British experience.

Yes, Italians and Hispanics have been citizens of late and Latin America is the culture they belong to, coming with their lands we've annexed, but it must be remembered that they do bring subdued Germanic elements to the table, even if they've largely forgotten this under all the Byzantine and Papal browbeating they've gone through to bury them under a Roman cloak. Perhaps kindness can kill in this matter, along with simple acknowledgement that the royal arms used to show Spain, the Two Sicilies and Jerusalem? Philip II of Austria was legitimate King of England, France and Ireland by Act of Parliament (as well as Duke of Burgundy, Milan and Brabant, Count of Habsburg, Flanders and Tyrol--regardless of the Black Legend), just as Francis II of Valois ruled the Scots and both jure uxoris situations coincided with the initial Columbian wave of settlement, before the hated Anglo-Scottish-Irish Union, another of which joined Bourbon Navarre to Valois France. Dutch and Germans already cohabitated with Habsburg Spain and went to Latin America before the Orange-Nassau and Brunswick-Lunenburg dynasties came to power in England and Britain. Vicente Fuchs/Fox is a good example of these continuing interrelationships later on.

Despite taking Alaska from Russia, the only real Slavic presence includes some Pennsylvania Polacks and (mostly) Saskatchewan Ukrainians, on the other side of the border.

Steppe Wanderer
Wednesday, November 17th, 2021, 10:07 PM
Oh, I'm not sure if anyone has brought it up, but there was a Germanic dialect in Wexford for a long time. It came not from Norsemen, but from English settlers who came over with the Normans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_and_Bargy_dialect

I admit I'm not an expert on genetics or Irish history, but it seems to me the people of the eastern section of Ireland are more like a Germanic people absorbed into a Celtic culture, as what happened to the Norman "Old English" before a Catholic-Protestant religious divide prevented more Teutonization (if that's a word to use) of the Irish.

*edit*
And of course, since the primary language of the Normans was French (I believe it was Henry IV, born in the 1360s, who was the first king of England to be raised primarily speaking English) it can be inferred that it wasn't only a few elite Norman knights who came with Strongbow, but an influx of of English settlers as well. If I'm not mistaken, Edward I encouraged English settlement in Wales also, not simply Norman domination.

Rćdwald
Wednesday, November 17th, 2021, 11:11 PM
Until recent years it was reasonable for academics to simply explain “the Pale” as predominantly Anglo-Saxon part of Ireland. Even some more recent works I’ve read like “Anglo-Celtic Australia” will still claim that the Pale is not really Irish.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 12:27 AM
We are now at the point where there's no predominantly Celtic land that identifies as Celtic, right down to the point of parody. All of the 'Six Nations' (Galicia is outside the bottom of the barrel here!) are Celtic practically in name only. Much like the Boii who used to live as a distinct folk of Austro-Bavaria and Bohemia, those of the British (English!) Isles have been Germanicised, or reincorporated within the Germanic basis of Western Indogermanics. The R1b of Celtic folks is a population bottleneck from the Urvolk and Germanic folks are properly half R1b, with Balto-Slavic Polacks likewise representing the R1a bottleneck of our aforesaid Germanic folks who are otherwise half R1a. There's a reason why all this negativity directed at Germanics is cancerous to all Western Indogermanics, because they are extensions of us. Some worry about White nationalism, but if all Indogermanics stuck together, including Easterners, Whiteness will reign supreme, in both wings of the Indogermanic world.

Steppe Wanderer
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 01:04 AM
“Anglo-Celtic Australia”
Thank you for the book recommend. I find myself enjoying pre-Second World War literature on race and ethnicity far more than anything cooked up this century. And it tends to be more friendly toward Germanics as well.

Steppe Wanderer
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 01:09 AM
@Rodskarl Dubhgall (https://forums.skadi.net/members/45371-Rodskarl-Dubhgall) I think you've really hit the nail on the head with that. An interesting article here regarding how the Third Reich actually viewed Eastern Europe:

The Hunt for Lost Blood: Nazi GermanizationPolicy in Occupied Europe
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/268793551.pdf

There had been so many waves of various Germanic peoples into eastern Europe from ancient times on, that really anyone who played ball with Germany was accepted as Germanic. The whole "anti-Slavic" myth is a red herring. Many of the soldiers for the Russian Liberation Army were taken out of the masses of Soviet POWs, and the SS were stunned to see how Germanic many of the Russians actually were.

The hatred aimed at Germanics, Anglos in particular, and Anglo-Americans especially it seems in the American right is what made me wash my hands of /pol/. It's incredibly frustrating and imo a case of sour grapes on their end.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 02:16 AM
The hatred aimed at Germanics, Anglos in particular, and Anglo-Americans especially it seems in the American right is what made me wash my hands of /pol/. It's incredibly frustrating and imo a case of sour grapes on their end.Please explain what you refer to. I'm the biggest Anglo-American defender and promoter on Skadi. This topic makes my ears prick up. ;)

Steppe Wanderer
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 02:36 AM
Haha, glad to hear it! Well, I'm not sure if you use /pol/ much, on 4chan. It became my go-to haunt after Iron March went away. It's a mess. A bunch of civ-nats who created the "Eternal Anglo" meme bashing us, I was in a fight with a Spaniard and a Quebecois on there a few days ago, making no real arguments but blaming us for contraception, etc. It's really why I came here. /pol/ is a bunch of mestizos and Catholics now (no offense to Germanic Catholics here) who simp over conservative latinos based on a shared disdain for gays. It was just exhausting. I suppose I'm a refugee to this board, haha.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 03:24 AM
Haha, glad to hear it! Well, I'm not sure if you use /pol/ much, on 4chan. It became my go-to haunt after Iron March went away. It's a mess. A bunch of civ-nats who created the "Eternal Anglo" meme bashing us, I was in a fight with a Spaniard and a Quebecois on there a few days ago, making no real arguments but blaming us for contraception, etc. It's really why I came here. /pol/ is a bunch of mestizos and Catholics now (no offense to Germanic Catholics here) who simp over conservative latinos based on a shared disdain for gays. It was just exhausting. I suppose I'm a refugee to this board, haha.

4chan is for lolicon wankers and I've never taken them seriously since I first met someone who used to waste his income from Kmart on World of Warcraft while living with his mum at 24 and his only social life was 4chan. He was desperate enough to associate with furries and bronies, so when asked if he would hang out with cannibals and coprophiles, he said he would, lmao. That was over 11 years ago.

This "Eternal Anglo" meme is a problem in the Eurosphere and Latin America, but it afflicts cuckservatives in the Anglosphere as well. Keep your eyes peeled for more rants and steel yourself for their vitriol. Here's a funny one I found:

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1651289-the-eternal-anglo

I used to debate with a Catholic convert named Mosley all the time, lol. Got to laugh now in thinking of how Marilyn Manson used the British Union of Fascists symbol to troll everyone with Antichrist Superstar that I blasted back in the 90s during high school. :D

Steppe Wanderer
Thursday, November 18th, 2021, 03:44 AM
4chan is for lolicon wankers and I've never taken them seriously since I first met someone who used to waste his income from Kmart on World of Warcraft while living with his mum at 24 and his only social life was 4chan. He was desperate enough to associate with furries and bronies, so when asked if he would hang out with cannibals and coprophiles, he said he would, lmao. That was over 11 years ago.

This "Eternal Anglo" meme is a problem in the Eurosphere and Latin America, but it afflicts cuckservatives in the Anglosphere as well. Keep your eyes peeled for more rants and steel yourself for their vitriol. Here's a funny one I found:

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1651289-the-eternal-anglo

I used to debate with a Catholic convert named Mosley all the time, lol. Got to laugh now in thinking of how Marilyn Manson used the British Union of Fascists symbol to troll everyone with Antichrist Superstar that I blasted back in the 90s during high school. :D

LOL Yes, that's an accurate description of most of them. /pol/ was actually fine from around 2013-2016, and then suddenly got a flood of basic conservatives from reddit's Trump board, and then the floodgates just sort of opened. Now it's riddled with Brazilian "crusaders" and weirdo trap fetishists. The whole thing is a cesspit.

No Surrender!