View Full Version : An Introduction to the Rig Veda

Saturday, July 13th, 2002, 04:29 PM
One not knowing a land asks of one who knows it,
he goes forward instructed by the knowing one.
Such, indeed, is the blessing of instruction,
one finds a path that leads him straight onward.
- The Rigveda, Volume 10 Hymn 32 Verse 7.

Rig Veda or the 'Spoken Knowledge' is a collection of a total of 10 Volumes or Samhitas of hymns. These were written in a language which we today term as Vedic. Since it is generally considered to be a religious text, although it is different from Judeo-Christianity-Islam in its core philosophical thought, it is wrongly identified with rituals. Some rituals known today in exaggerated forms were actually created some 1500 years ago. Although not all are that recent. But the Veda was compiled as a collection of Hymns written by seers in the Aryan assemblies.

The Vedas are the only extant records of the lives and expressions of our forefathers of an age upon the time-limits of which scholars and historians have been unable to agree with any degree of finality. Indian scholars like Tilak and Europeans like Jacobi are inclined to date the period from Four to Six Millenniums before the Christian era while other Western Christian scholars have a strong tendency to advance the date to as near the Christian era as possible.

Be that as it may, it is the songs and chants of these fathers of the race--purve petarah--, it is their hymns that form the starting point and the kernel for the vast literature that has flowed from and developed round them and goes by the name VEDA. At some period of their history, very likely at the close of the epoch during which the hymns were first sung and celebrated, it was found necessary to collect and compile all the available hymns current at that time. The necessity for the compilation may have arisen in order to prevent their loss inevitable with the passage of time and also to preserve them in the form in which they were chanted.

Tradition has it that they were compiled under the direction of that Master compiler of the Great Age--Vyasa. Certainly what have been compiled do not exhaust all the hymns that must have been current; the compilations represent the remnants that had survived the ravages of time and were still extant at the time of the compilation. These hymnal texts had been inherited in oral form and it was inevitable that they must have suffered diminution in quantity with each generation.
-Shre Aurobindo

The situational change in Aryaverta has allowed some deviation and passivity. Multiculturalism has helped in convolution and fragmentation, ala Buddhism & Hindutva. Besides, Vedic Aryan thought is fiercely hated by the Liberals, Communists, Islamists, Christian Evangelists & even Judeo-Graeco-Roman Westernists. And Hindutva is bent upon convoluting it to the hilt to its own ulterior ends.

The eloquent Vedic thought provided the basis for a philosophy which grew into a phenomena as splendid as are the six philosophical systems of India, reflecting an underlying cosmotheism. It welcomes questioning and reasoning among the people, which is essentially found in all of Aryan traditions. Generally the term 'Hindu' is wrongly used to describe all that is derived of the Veda.

The Veda as a piece of literature is still best kept by the Brahman scholars such as the Iyers, who went to south India, along with the great Vedic seer Agastya. There are some gifted ones who can recite all first 3 Vedic Samhitas, orally. The 5th century linguist Panini, who was the first author of a Grammar, ashta dhyaya, anywhere in the world, especially stressed on the right pronunciation of the hymns in the Veda. Brahmans must do so. That's the only way to preserve the spoken traditions and to transmit them to the future generations.

The Vedic society propounded the doctrine of Karma, as elaborated in the Upanishadic discourses. The inherent existing self is also reflected in the belief in transmigration of souls among the people. Although, in the modern technology-driven comfortable living convenience is of a greater value, thus much of the content of the veda is lost to the readers.

Saturday, July 13th, 2002, 09:51 PM
Thanks for this post Rahul, I found it very interesting, and a good introduction on the Rig Veda. If I understand correctly the Rig Veda is a collection of hymns, but what I would like to know is what is the connection of the Rig Veda to the Aryan men, are these hymns still recited in India nowadays, and if so how come non-Aryans recite the hymns supposedly created by Aryans?

Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 02:42 PM
Iyers are strictly dogmatic about the caste system. They are the only constituents of the Aryan race in South India. Therefore, they are not non-Aryans per se. But they will be half castes, ten-fifteen years from now. This will be the fate if all of are ilk in the near future, it cannot be helped most of all, and that is tragic.

I didn't talk about the Iyengars or the Namboodripads, who happen to be genetically and physically similar to the the Polynesians, Arabs and the Afrikans.

Those traditions get convoluted when you become skeptic, the same is happening in Sweden's Asatro Society.

Calle Rehbinder's Asatro Website (http://www.multiart.nu/grimner/racist.html).

I respect this man for what he is doing other than this foolish notion he has that Afrikans can be Einherjers of the valfather.:mad:

Wednesday, July 17th, 2002, 08:07 AM
I had trouble hitting your link, Rahul, but found the English version here:


Thursday, July 18th, 2002, 10:39 AM
Rig Veda is, without question, the Aryan religious document par excellence for both its ancientness and breadth. This is not to say that it is precisely proto-Aryan, but for its age it is the closest short of a few Hittite fragments, pictographs and archaeological finds. One may debate to what extent later Vedic texts are "Aryan" just as one may debate what parts of Germanic or Greek myth are Aryan and what parts chthonic.

"Earthy" fertility gods may have been frequently adopted by instrusive Aryans as witnessed by Ge in the Greek or the "war" between the Aesir and the Vanir. Nerthus of Germanic origin (Prthivi, Rig Veda) may be Ge's Indo-European equivelent. But Rig Veda is a 'snap-shot' of the invasion period when compromise witht the locals was not on their minds. By contrast, the Germanic and Greeks sources show us a mythology which has already merged with the local substratum.

Modern attempts at reconstructing old religions are generally incomplete without acknowledging the complete range of ancient sources or the comparative work of Dumezil. The claim that they are "old relgion" ignores the fact that modern synthesis occurs in all these attempts. Some results have been multicultural Asatru which, if Rig Veda were consulted, is clearly impossible since the old ways were ethnocentric. On top of this, the "Aryan mind" has grown through science, philosophy and the hard lessons of history. We are left to wonder what a modern Aryan religion is or should be.

The ancient sources keep us grounded in our pastoral origin, our warrior ethos, our inquisitive philosophy and our ethnocentric tribalism.

I strongly recommend Rig Veda and Zarathustra's elder Yasna's for an Ayran investigating the cosmic struggle raging around us.

Thursday, July 18th, 2002, 04:28 PM
What can be the basis of calling the Rigveda a religious document? Its comparison on the Judeo-Hellenic scale of rituals?
Or its speculation to see if there is a supreme deity who can answer the mysteries of creation at all?

It is completely different from what a Judeo-Hellenic religious text would look like(tora or the bible), and if it has some elements(thoughts) which find a parallel elsewhere, its either corrupted or it is multicultural. Multicultural in addition also, for it has diverse notions on many issues, such as the multiplicity of creationist paradigms or they might be speculation in their variousness instead of multiculturalism.

It is very difficult and incoherent to suggest at this time that the antiquity of the Hittite or the Mittani inscriptions and archaelogical finds in places all over West Asia is greater than the Vedic Aryan period, when the hymns of the Rig Veda were first composed.

The Aryan Invasion Theory is also a matter of speculation like all other theories, even those which suggest that the "Sarasvati Valley Civilisation" ever existed. Although, there is some living proof of the genuine Sarasvati which was a great river on the southern frontiers of the Septa Sind. The Iranians called it Hepta Hind, which makes no sense to me, since that does a tremndous violence to the very name and meaning of the land.

The Lapp influence on the Norse traditions can not be ruled out or maybe the Nordic traditions were proto-IE themselves-The root of Aryan thus. This is also possible since the Solar Goddess in the Early Bronze Age Skandinavia has a great alikeness with the Vedic Solar Goddess.

Dumezil was an excellent scholar, but he must have made a mistake when he substantially consulted the Mahabharata for his comparitive studies. The Mahabharata is quite different from the Original Jaya, which Bangans in the NW Indian Himalayas have kept alive in some form. Its comprises of an archaic language, which has some alikeness with the Vedic. And intriguingly, some have suggested that certain Bangan lores are found elsewhere in the Keltic people. Someone will probably consider a scholarship and research behind the origin of the Bangans and their traditions which can probably help us decipher the true Aryan origin.

Saturday, July 20th, 2002, 11:48 PM
I didn't mean to create a firestorm. I thought refering to RV as religious in nature was a given. At no point did I, or would I, liken Rig Veda to Semitic collections.

Positing Hittite fragments as early is, of course, tentative and based on the usual dating of RV's earliest hymns to 1500 BCE. The matter, however, is not greatly important as the authority and breadth of RV is unmatched.

I'm not familiar with Bangan lore which might provide a different view of Mahabharata but would be greatly interested to hear it. All the more interesting since Bangan is presumed a language not derived of Old Indo-Aryan, but with closer links instead to Tocharian and, yes!, Keltic.

The oft supported homeland of PIE as being around the Ukraine is tempting because it fits well as a "center of gravity" and possibly helps to explain early contact with a Finno-Ugaric group. But, as you say, the matter is far from resolved. It is not impossible that the PIE came from elsewhere and 'staged' on the Eurasian steppe and subsequently overlaid their earlier cousins (proto-proto-Indo-Europeans?) thereby eliminating the trail of evidence to their true homeland.

It would certainly shake up things if it turned out the old Nazi claims for a European origin turned out to be partially correct afterall. But I'm not aware of any really compelling evidence. There are the Tarim mummies who genetically test as related to West Europeans. There is also the strange and unexpected factiod that modern Swedes carry the highest level of lactose tolerance (97%).

Friday, July 9th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Discussion about Rig Veda

Quotes from the Rig Veda, the original Holy Book of the Aryan conquerors of India (which has now been corrupted but is still to this day in use as the main Hindu religious text) contains a great many references to the race of the conquerors and the conquered.
According to the Rig Veda, the leader of the Aryan invasion was one Indra, and his role in “slaying the Dasyus” (the Negroids in India) is prominent in the Rig Veda:
"Thou, Indra, art the destroyer of all the cities, the slayer of the Dasyus, the prosperer of man, the lord of the sky." - RgV. VIII 87.6
The Rig Veda goes on to use the word “black” in a number of instances to describe the Dasyu:
"Indra, the slayer of Vrittra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the Dasyu (hosts) sprang from a black womb." RgV. II 20.6
The Rig Veda praises the god who "destroyed the Dasyans and protected the Aryan colour." - Rg.V. III 34.9
It then goes on to thank the god who "bestowed on his white friends the fields, bestowed the sun, bestowed the waters." - Rg.V. I 100.18
Black skin is repeatedly referred to with abhorrence in the Rig Veda: starting with a description of the "black skin" (`Krishnam Vacham') in RgV. IX 41.1, Sam. V I.491 and II.242.
For example in RgV. IX 73 it is said that “stormy gods who rush on like furious bulls and scatter the black skin", and it claims that “the black skin, the hated of Indra" will be swept out of heaven - RgV. IX 73.5
Rg.V. I 130.8 tells of how the “black skin” was conquered:
"Indra protected in battle the Aryan worshipper, he subdued the lawless for Manu, he conquered the black skin."
The Rig Veda thanks god for "scattering the slave bands of black descent", and for stamping out "the vile Dasyan colour." - Rg.V. II.20.7, II 12.4
It also contains this choice remark which sums up the Aryan’s opinion of their non-white subjects: "Black skin is impious" (‘Dasam varnam adharam’) -Sans., Rg.V. II.12.4
Other extracts from the Rig Veda further illustrate the sharp racial divisions in this time:
Indra - 1.130.8 - "Indra in battles help his Aryan worshipper, he who hath hundred helps at hand in every fray, in frays that win the light of heaven. Plaguing the lawless he gave up to Manu's seed the dusky skin; Blazing, 'twere, he burns each covetous man away, he burns, the tyrannous away."
Indra - 4.16.13 - "Thou to the son of Vidathin, Rjisvan, gavest up mighty Mrgaya and Pipru. Thou smotest down the swarthy fifty thousand, and rentest forts as age consumes a garment."
Indra - 5.29.10 - "One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." ("Noseless Dasyus" would suggest a reference to flat nosed Negroid types)
Soma Pavamana - 9.41.1 - "ACTIVE and bright have they come forth, impetuous in speed like bulls, driving the black skin far away."
Soma Pavamana - 9.73.5 - "O'er Sire and Mother they have roared in unison bright with the verse of praise, burning up riteless men, Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates."
Indra - 10.23.4 - "With him too is this rain of his that comes like herds: Indra throws drops of moisture on his yellow beard. When the sweet juice is shed he seeks the pleasant place, and stirs the worshipper as wind disturbs the wood."
Indra - 10.96.8 - "At the swift draught the Soma-drinker waxed in might, the Iron One with yellow beard and yellow hair. He, Lord of Tawny Coursers, Lord of fleet-foot Mares, will bear his Bay Steeds safely over all distress."
Indra - 1.9.3 - "O Lord of all men, fair of cheek, rejoice thee in the gladdening lauds, Present at these drink-offerings."
In what could easily be another indicator of the common cultural origins between the Rig Veda and the Indo-European gods, Indra’s greatest weapon is said, in the Rig Veda, to be a lightening bolt – identical to the weapon of Thorburn, the Northern European God:
Indra - 1.100.18 - "He, much invoked, hath slain Dasyus and Simyus, after his wont, and laid them low with arrows. The mighty Thunderer with his fair-complexioned friends won the land, the sunlight, and the waters."
Indra - 1.101.1 - "SING, with oblation, praise to him who maketh glad, who with Rjisvan drove the dusky brood away. Fain for help, him the strong whose right hand wields the bolt, him girt by Maruts we invoke to be our Friend."
Indra - 1.103.3 - "Armed with his bolt and trusting in his prowess he wandered shattering the forts of Dasas. Cast thy dart, knowing, Thunderer, at the Dasyu; increase the Arya's might and glory, Indra.
4 "For him who thus hath taught these human races, Maghavan, bearing a fame-worthy title, Thunderer, drawing nigh to slay the Dasyus, hath given himself the name of Son for glory."


LOL! A translation from 100 years back.

so cin nu vRSTiryUthyA svA sacAnindraH shmashrUNiharitAbhi pruSNute:
With him too is this rain of his that comes like herds: Indra throws drops of moisture on his yellow beard.

Entry: pruS, pruSNoti, pruSNute
Meaning: ({pruSyati}), pp. {pruSita3} sprinkle, wet, [[,]] moisten. -- {abhi} M. sprinkle anything on one's self. {pari} sprinkle about. {vi} drip off or down.

In this case wet make sense and not yellow! And also when it would mean blond it would use a special word for it. No IE language I know use the color yellow for blond hair. Also Iranian doesn`t do it! Zard for yellow and Burr for blond!
So my nordish superior you showed that you have no knowledge about this stuff. You thought you can to wind up me? LOL!
A guy who read 10 times the Avesta and begin to learn it by heart
can analyze every old Indo-Iranian texts.

Btw in Indo-Iranian language has Yellow and Rain the same root!
But Blond has something to do with hairs not like Yellow and Rain!
So go and bring me real arguments not something like that!
LOL... :D
The correct translation by an Avestan master speaker!

With him too is this rain of his that comes like herds: Indra throws drops of moisture on his wet beard.

To 10.96: With yellow drops? Since when is water yellow?
I think the whole texts is misstranslated! And we can speak no where from any blond hairs. Also it is strange that there is nowhere use BLOND but everytime yellow/wet/sprinkle...! I am not an expert of Rig Veda and I had not time to yet to read it because I am deepened on my Iranian studies!
But how I can see is that the guy who translated the texts to English was swamped with this. The special thing on Indo-Iranian languages is that one word can have 10 meanings what we can mostly find only in Indo-Iranian languages. On Persian shir can mean milk, lion or tap. You see 3 words who has not real connection. The connection was maybe for 6000 years a long time befor the RigVeda was write. Also when we thought that the translation was for 100 years and the Sanskrit dictionary was not so greate then it sure that he misstranslated the whole texts. To use this translation for any proof is so laughable and I get advise everyone who will speak about this stuff learn Sanskrit or get a good Sanskrit dictionary and learn the ground grammar like me to understand those texts.What do you think?

Friday, July 9th, 2004, 04:41 PM
Discussion about Rig Veda

What do you think?

First of all, that dumb, ignoramus stars with a silly pointer. The Holy book of Aryan conquerors. Since when has the Veda become a book?

Actually the tradition of the Vedas is not holy the way bible book is holy, Veda is dear because it is about the most natural world-conception of our ancestry. One who is not confident about the identity of his father let alone of his lineage will not understand the Vedic Culture's implications.

Moreover RTH Griffith's translations are discredited too.

He actually himself admitted at a later point though.

But as a matter of fact, this is only for the consumption of Norda's kindred herd. We are not supposed to look at this stupid variation, Shapur.

Friday, July 9th, 2004, 04:59 PM
First of all, that dumb, ignoramus stars with a silly pointer. The Holy book of Aryan conquerors. Since when has the Veda become a book?

Actually the tradition of the Vedas is not holy the way bible book is holy, Veda is dear because it is about the most natural world-conception of our ancestry. One who is not confident about the identity of his father let alone of his lineage will not understand the Vedic Culture's implications.

Moreover RTH Griffith's translations are discredited too.

He actually himself admitted at a later point though.

But as a matter of fact, this is only for the consumption of Norda's kindred herd. We are not supposed to look at this stupid variation, Shapur.
But my translation was correct? Because I wondered about the word yellow.
Also the most parts on English you can not understand what they want say.
If you read them on Sanskrit you understand it better then English.