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Loddfafner
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 05:42 AM
Are Germanic cultures prone to extremes of order and liberty that have developed in reaction to each other?

This question is inspired by the discussion in the pictures thread about whether it is appropriate, or Germanic, to post a picture of one's naked torso. Dagna's objections to a picture of Verita Aequitas evoked for me the spirit of my Swedish cousins who were strangely adamant about not crossing a street until the lights had changed even though there was no traffic at all. Yet the notion that nudity was somehow non-Germanic contradicted the historical reality that nudism as an organized social movement originated in Germany and had a high profile in Germanic countries in the 1920s. The painting I currently have up on the art quiz thread is (hint! hint!) from that epoch. Movements for sexual freedom also emerged from that epoch and so did movements to restrict it and reign it in.

What are your thoughts on these matters?

Soldier of Wodann
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 06:07 AM
There is a clear balance. Christianity has either made people fanatically conservative (in cases where they clearly don't need to be) or fanatically anti-order, and being vulgar any chance they get. Before it I don't think there was an issue with these sort of things before Christianity. People were comfortable with themselves but not sexually promiscuous. Moral but not zealots, etc. etc.

Dagna
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 06:18 AM
You missed my entire point. I have no objections to nudity in every day situations. I just believe it is pathetic to post nude pictures on an Internet forum. This is a place for highbrow discussion, not showing off. I believe it is comparable to having cybersex, something I find retarded.

Soldier of Wodann
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 06:23 AM
You missed my entire point. I have no objections to nudity in every day situations. I just believe it is pathetic to post nude pictures on an Internet forum. This is a place for highbrow discussion, not showing off. I believe it is comparable to having cybersex, something I find retarded.

Funny thing is, it was in the lowbrow section.

Beornulf
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 06:24 AM
I would say that the reason for the seeming confusion and contradictions would be because of the outside influences that have affected the Germanic ethos and principles.

It’s gotten to the point where Germanic cultures along with many others don’t actually know their stance on such things or their cultural disposition towards such topics. In other words there have been so many vast mutations to Tradition in the name of progress over the last few centuries that we’ve forgotten the root values almost completely.

Loddfafner
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 07:08 AM
To broaden the question further, is Germanic culture a single, monolithic entity that has been distorted by outside forces, or have there have always been opposing tendencies that have developed in dramatic tension with each other?

One problem with the former is that it implies that we have been acted upon more than we have acted. Another is that of which historic epoch represents that pure form: the times described by Tacitus, the Migration Era, the Holy Roman Empire, the 1860s, the 1930s?

Veritas ∆quitas
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 07:24 AM
Carvings depicting men sky-clad in particular, was symbolic of military and political strength in Germany during the early 1900's, just to use as an example of German cultural architecture. And I hope I am not wrong, but I also recall seeing Nazi propaganda videos of nude women with hoola-hoops and other gymnastic equipment which is symbolic in one form or another, and certainly not what I consider pornographic. And I am against pornography (distasteful, up close display of errect penises and vaginas, or lewd positioning of women or men captured on photo, or depictons of sexual intercourse of other people for personal stimulation) in all forms as mentioned. I also recall Celts (Gauls included), and Teutons going to war in small bands with not a single piece of clothing on them which terrified opponents like the invading Roman tribe.

Soldier of Wodann
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 08:11 AM
To broaden the question further, is Germanic culture a single, monolithic entity that has been distorted by outside forces, or have there have always been opposing tendencies that have developed in dramatic tension with each other?

One problem with the former is that it implies that we have been acted upon more than we have acted. Another is that of which historic epoch represents that pure form: the times described by Tacitus, the Migration Era, the Holy Roman Empire, the 1860s, the 1930s?

To answer the first question, I think we were pretty like minded in the early times. The largest cultural division we had was between certain Pagan cults and tribal conflicts, which seem so minor in comparison to conflict between religions and entire states. There was essentially a near perfect amount of balance IMO, as the world was much smaller then with little boundary between us and our old Aryan traditions (unlike today), likewise with all Europeans really. Though when I bring up Christianity, I realize it was not the only corrupting influence. Rome, though at its height it was a beautiful and great thing, very much damaged the European world with its cultural imperialism and partially with its foriegn ideas (which greatly impacted the Germanic world, despite the fact that little of it was actually conquered).

Which era represents purity best is probably the oldest, namely Tacitus' records on the subject, but we do have some oddities in the time scale, like the Second and Third Reich, which were great representations of the Traditional Germanic spirit IMO.

Schmetterling
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 11:21 AM
I am not so sure about other Germanics, but orderliness has always been a stereotypical German trait.

Dagna
Saturday, March 15th, 2008, 03:30 PM
Funny thing is, it was in the lowbrow section.
I believe being in the lowbrow section does not change the fact that it is as pathetic and as retarded as cybersex.