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norda
Friday, April 2nd, 2004, 10:41 PM
There were some questions on Dinaric type and Armenoidal race lately.
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9467
I would suggest to start the discussion about Armenoidal/Oriental influences in Balkan Region and Italy. I am quite sure that Armenoidal (Oriental HG 21?) are mostly connected with spread of HG 9 and HG 21 influences (Neolithic?)
Lets look at the map
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2873
and small graph (pls do not take this on 100% seriously)

Euclides
Friday, April 2nd, 2004, 11:15 PM
There were some questions on Dinaric type and Armenoidal race lately.
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9467
I would suggest to start the discussion about Armenoidal/Oriental influences in Balkan Region and Italy. I am quite sure that Armenoidal (Oriental HG 21?) are mostly connected with spread of HG 9 and HG 21 influences (Neolithic?)
Lets look at the map
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2873
and small graph (pls do not take this on 100% seriously)


Where is my profile picture in your map? :)

norda
Saturday, April 3rd, 2004, 04:14 AM
Where is my profile picture in your map? :)
Just to made whole issue more clear I have omitted Alpine type’s influences. Sorry..

Euclides
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM
The figures show how salt diffuses through a bathtub of water. In some respects the migration of people in prehistoric times owing to the spread of agriculture might be considered a diffusion- like process. The figures on the right show concentrations of farming settlements in 8000 BC, 5000 BC, and 1000 BC. The traces of this farming expansion can be seen today in the genetic structure of human populations, as well as in the common features of most of the languages spoken in Europe and Asia; their common ancestor was the Indo-European language spoken by the first farmers.

Euclides
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Wave of Advance Theory


One of first model was rather simple diffusion assuming absolute dominance and attraction of agriculture. Such model is one proposed by Ammerman and Cavalli-Sforza (1971, 1973, 1984), based upon notion that agriculture will soon produce population increase substantial enough to fuel diffusion spurred by need for a new land. This produced uniform "Wave of Advance" of farming techniques inevitably sweeping everything in front of him, coming in constant speed of 1km a year. Such pattern was primarily devised through analyisis of C-14 dates for the earliesty farming communities which has obviously fall off pattern going from the Southeast to the Northwest.

Euclides
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 08:12 PM
There were some questions on Dinaric type and Armenoidal race lately.
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9467
I would suggest to start the discussion about Armenoidal/Oriental influences in Balkan Region and Italy. I am quite sure that Armenoidal (Oriental HG 21?) are mostly connected with spread of HG 9 and HG 21 influences (Neolithic?)
Lets look at the map
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2873
and small graph (pls do not take this on 100% seriously)


Do you agree with the theory who says that the first agriculturalists are indo-european speakers from Armenoid type?

norda
Tuesday, April 6th, 2004, 10:53 AM
The figures show how salt diffuses through a bathtub of water. In some respects the migration of people in prehistoric times owing to the spread of agriculture might be considered a diffusion- like process. The figures on the right show concentrations of farming settlements in 8000 BC, 5000 BC, and 1000 BC. The traces of this farming expansion can be seen today in the genetic structure of human populations, as well as in the common features of most of the languages spoken in Europe and Asia; their common ancestor was the Indo-European language spoken by the first farmers.
There is no prove of presence Indo-European language in Europe since IE Hellenic invasion and fall of Minoan Empire. btw Minoan skulls were mostly Armenoidal. Thatís rather possible that Neolithic farming predated spread of IE.

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, April 6th, 2004, 11:37 AM
Do you agree with the theory who says that the first agriculturalists are indo-european speakers from Armenoid type?

Certainly not, all documents pertaining on the Danubians are clear in this matter.
The Danubian first farmers are split in three typological branches, the first two have a mediterrenoid character and are vastly intermingled, the latter is a proto-europoid:


+ a gracile, paedeomorphic, mesorhinic and prognatious med., very characteristic for the Dabubian Basin.

+ a more robust, leptoprosopic and more dolichocranial type highly reminding the Atlanto-Meds of the Balkan and Hither Asia, but in some respects foreshadowing the Corded type.

+ a mesocephalic proto-europoid of probably South Russian derivation.

Euclides
Wednesday, April 7th, 2004, 07:22 PM
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=100152#post100152


'' A33-B14-DR1 is found in Mediterraneans, but not in Basques
or Portuguese, reflecting the relative lack of contact with
Mediterraneans common to both Basques and Portuguese;
these latter groups also share one of the highest frequencies
of the Rh phenotype (see above). Armenians show a high
frequency of this haplotype, which counters the postulated
ancient relationship between Basques and Armenians (Urartu)
(Martű¬nez-Laso et al. 1995). ''

Euclides
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 07:21 PM
There were some questions on Dinaric type and Armenoidal race lately.
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9467
I would suggest to start the discussion about Armenoidal/Oriental influences in Balkan Region and Italy. I am quite sure that Armenoidal (Oriental HG 21?) are mostly connected with spread of HG 9 and HG 21 influences (Neolithic?)
Lets look at the map
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2873
and small graph (pls do not take this on 100% seriously)


HG9 is something about 14.800 to 9.700 years old.

HG9 is related to Neolithic Invaders. This Haplogroup shows high frequences in Caucasus (33 % ) and Anatolia .Both areas where Armenoid types predominate.

Haplogroup HG9 ( or J ) is divided in two groups, according with Semino :

Eu9 - who is derived from North Near Eastern populations ( Armenoids ), and Eu 10 who is related to southern populations ( Palestinians ,beduins and arabians )- ( Semitics/Orientalids)

So, HG9 ( Neolithic ) = Eu9 ( Armenoids ) + Eu10 ( Orientalids )

But how about HG21( or E1a )?

This choromosome is probably North-African ( Berber / old-mediterranean? ) showing high incidences among Greeks, Cypriots , also found among Portugueses , Spaniards , Italians , Turks, etc.


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Your post starts a interesting discussion, maybe will be better at Genetics Forum.