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Ted
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 07:28 AM
Where, and I mean quite specifically, in Europe would one find the heaviest concentrations of Alpines?

Bavaria? Baden? Central France? Slovakia? I know one website estimates the centre of Alpinism to be in Luxomburg, but I don't buy that. The population sample taken was much too small to meet with strict empirical standards of research. I've also heard Sicily too, and I agree Siciily is home to many a corpulant Italian, but I believe the Alpine samples there are more likely a mixture of many things including Dinarics and Mediterraneans.

Thanks

Timo
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 07:39 AM
West Alpines are generally around/in France. My family is from South-West Germany (Württemberg and Swaben). As for the east, I don't know for sure.

Ted
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 02:38 AM
Can anyone give me a more specific answer to this question I posed about where the centre of Alpinism would be in Europe. I know France is mentioned often but few people specify where exactly in France Alpines would be MOST predominant. I'm also not so sure that many of these French examples are pure Alpines. I also know that the convex nasal profile and flat back of the head are common features amongst the French people, and this would suggest an element of Dinaricism to me. The same could also be said of Sicilians. Therefore, I'm wondering if the true heaviest concentration of Alpines would be in the southern German provinces of Bavaria or Baden. I would guess Baden is slightly more Alpinic than Bavaria, but again, I'm only guessing. Am I correct? Where is Alpinia, and what is it's capital city?

Frans_Jozef
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 02:55 AM
Can anyone give me a more specific answer to this question I posed about where the centre of Alpinism would be in Europe. I know France is mentioned often but few people specify where exactly in France Alpines would be MOST predominant. I'm also not so sure that many of these French examples are pure Alpines. I also know that the convex nasal profile and flat back of the head are common features amongst the French people, and this would suggest an element of Dinaricism to me. The same could also be said of Sicilians. Therefore, I'm wondering if the true heaviest concentration of Alpines would be in the southern German provinces of Bavaria or Baden. I would guess Baden is slightly more Alpinic than Bavaria, but again, I'm only guessing. Am I correct? Where is Alpinia, and what is it's capital city?

The Parisian Basin harboured since the neolithic most of the Alpinids as well the Rhône valleys and Savoie in East France.
Brittany contains also its fair share of Alpinids, ascribed to a more primitive Lappish-looking type(including incipient mongolism), the so-called Breiz type.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 03:32 AM
Coon made the remark that the best place to find an example of an Alpine was a Bavarian restaurant.

Ted
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 07:38 AM
One other thing on this Alpine inquiry. When I lived in America I resided in a city called Buffalo, New York. Besides my fellow Brits, there were also many people of Polish ancestry who lived in Buffalo as well. I was always amazed how often these people struck a very Alpine pose to their appearance. I know most Poles, and indeed most Slavs in general, are supposed to be of the Neo-Danubian phenotype, but I was amazed by how many of these people had the typical Alpine features and colouring; short, stocky builds, with wide faces, fleshy features and concave nasal profiles. Brown eyes and dark tawney complexions; straight brown hair with a propensity toward baldness in the male population appeared to be the order of the day.

Most of these people I assume were descended from the peasant stock who were recruited from southern and eastern Poland at the turn of the last century to come to Buffalo to labour and toil their lives away in the mammouth steel mills and many automobile factories located in that industrial city.

I guess then my question is this: Is the Alpine element just as strong in Eastern Europe as it is in places like France and Germany? And if so, where in particular in Eastern Europe would one find the greatest concentration of Alpines? Thanks!

norda
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 08:15 AM
One other thing on this Alpine inquiry. When I lived in America I resided in a city called Buffalo, New York. Besides my fellow Brits, there were also many people of Polish ancestry who lived in Buffalo as well. I was always amazed how often these people struck a very Alpine pose to their appearance. I know most Poles, and indeed most Slavs in general, are supposed to be of the Neo-Danubian phenotype, but I was amazed by how many of these people had the typical Alpine features and colouring; short, stocky builds, with wide faces, fleshy features and concave nasal profiles. Brown eyes and dark tawney complexions; straight brown hair with a propensity toward baldness in the male population appeared to be the order of the day.

Most of these people I assume were descended from the peasant stock who were recruited from southern and eastern Poland at the turn of the last century to come to Buffalo to labour and toil their lives away in the mammouth steel mills and many automobile factories located in that industrial city.

I guess then my question is this: Is the Alpine element just as strong in Eastern Europe as it is in places like France and Germany? And if so, where in particular in Eastern Europe would one find the greatest concentration of Alpines? Thanks!
Indeed Czech Sudetian and Polish Western Carpathian mountains (Gorals) are part of the same “Alpine type” belt spreading from France. Eastern Carpathian Ukrainians are less Alpine and gradually Dinaric type is more common (Huzuls). Also southern neighbors – Moravians and Slovaks are less Alpine and Dinaric type is more (Armenoidal element) popular. It interesting that this belt is not really Alpine geographically and is located further north. Mentioned “belt” is (was) probably the European only region with Alpine type majority.

Ted
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 07:20 AM
Indeed Czech Sudetian and Polish Western Carpathian mountains (Gorals) are part of the same “Alpine type” belt spreading from France. Eastern Carpathian Ukrainians are less Alpine and gradually Dinaric type is more common (Huzuls). Also southern neighbors – Moravians and Slovaks are less Alpine and Dinaric type is more (Armenoidal element) popular. It interesting that this belt is not really Alpine geographically and is located further north. Mentioned “belt” is (was) probably the European only region with Alpine type majority.

You're probably 100% correct, but from my observations I always found American Poles to be a lot more Alpininc than Neo-Danubian. Again, it is just an observation, but I remember American Poles to be a lot swarthier in complexion with darker hair and eyes than today's European Poles--who, by the way, I would agree are mostly Neo-Danubian. Nevertheless, my theory is that the majority of the illiterate Polish peasants who came to work as labourers in the factories of America's dirty Rust Belt conurbations were from a more southerly region of what was once Poland. In my eyes it must have been an area where Alpines predominated.:|

Marius
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 10:47 AM
I guess then my question is this: Is the Alpine element just as strong in Eastern Europe as it is in places like France and Germany? And if so, where in particular in Eastern Europe would one find the greatest concentration of Alpines? Thanks!

Romania, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Western Ukraine, Austria, Slovakia present an important concentration of Alpines. There are admixtures, of course. But, even the notion of Alpine is very highly disputed. One say there is no such subrace as the Alpine one. In fact, after them, the Alpines are just a genetic drift from other subraces, presenting an adaptation to a mountain environment.

I am not advocating this theory, but I cannot prove it wrong, since even the concept of 'subrace' itself is highly disputed from a scientifical point of view.

Please consult the following thread, too: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=25082 (please take out, the quarelling info and concentrate over the real interesting issue). I think there are some interesting posts concerning the theoretical issue of Alpinism.

Japetos
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 05:13 PM
Where, and I mean quite specifically, in Europe would one find the heaviest concentrations of Alpines?

Bavaria? Baden? Central France? Slovakia? I know one website estimates the centre of Alpinism to be in Luxomburg, but I don't buy that. The population sample taken was much too small to meet with strict empirical standards of research. I've also heard Sicily too, and I agree Siciily is home to many a corpulant Italian, but I believe the Alpine samples there are more likely a mixture of many things including Dinarics and Mediterraneans.

Thanks
Βavaria;according to Greek edition of Larousse-Britannica.

Wichmann
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 08:29 PM
One say there is no such subrace as the Alpine one. In fact, after them, the Alpines are just a genetic drift from other subraces, presenting an adaptation to a mountain environment.Who argued that way?
Where should be the advantage for a rather heavy person in roaming in a mountain area? :)

The population in the alps is more dinaric than anything else!

Marius
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 08:39 PM
Who argued that way?
Where should be the advantage for a rather heavy person in roaming in a mountain area? :)

The population in the alps is more dinaric than anything else!

Well... there are N oppinions over that... Look over the proposed thread.

Stukaraider
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 09:14 PM
So what about Slovenia. this country have the most ancient culture in europe and is Alpine country. The heaviest concentration is in Slovenia.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 04:00 AM
So what about Slovenia. this country have the most ancient culture in europe and is Alpine country. The heaviest concentration is in Slovenia.

:scratch

We're talking about sub-races (or phenotypes here). Even your profile says Alpine, while you're actually Mediterranid/Cro-Magnid. I'm afraid I don't have any stats handy, but Slovenia is far too light-pigmented to be overwhelmingly Alpinid.

Vojvoda
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 04:55 AM
:scratch

We're talking about sub-races (or phenotypes here). Even your profile says Alpine, while you're actually Mediterranid/Cro-Magnid. I'm afraid I don't have any stats handy, but Slovenia is far too light-pigmented to be overwhelmingly Alpinid.
Okay,sub-nordic then :D

Marius
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:10 AM
:scratch

We're talking about sub-races (or phenotypes here). Even your profile says Alpine, while you're actually Mediterranid/Cro-Magnid. I'm afraid I don't have any stats handy, but Slovenia is far too light-pigmented to be overwhelmingly Alpinid.

I don't think so. All the Slovenes I met look either Meds, either Alpine-Nordid.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:23 AM
I don't think so. All the Slovenes I met look either Meds, either Alpine-Nordid.

Strange, Baltid and Norid are probably the most frequent types here. Further, Skerlj noted that many Alpinids (he didn't provide any figures) are of the light Pannonid variety which has narrower noses. I sincerely doubt that Alpinid as a component is more frequent than Baltid, Nordid, Dinarid and Cro-Magnid. Considering that most people are phenotypically mixed, you can get a pretty good idea of what this can amount to.

Mediterranids? You probably won't see even one in the east, and even in the west there are only few?

Are you sure they were ethnic Slovenes (I wouldn't doubt it, though, as a few individuals are hardly a representative sample)? I reckon that 20% of the population are not ethnically Slovene.

I don't fancy myself as an expert on Romanians on the basis of a few individuals that have been passing themselves off as natives.

Marius
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:33 AM
Mediterranids? You probably won't see even one in the east, and even in the west there are only few?

Are you sure they were ethnic Slovenes (I wouldn't doubt it, though, as a few individuals are hardly a representative sample)? I reckon that 20% of the population are not ethnically Slovene.

I don't fancy myself as an expert on Romanians on the basis of a few individuals that have been passing themselves off as natives.

Yes, it was Meds. But ok, perhaps I don't know it enough. Mea culpa!

Triglav
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:38 AM
Yes, it was Meds.

Do you know whether they were from the SW part? Mediterranean is actually quite rare in Slovenia, especially in the east.


But ok, perhaps I don't know it enough. Mea culpa!

If I were to go by most of the people who were passing themselvess off as Romanians, I'd think that most Romanians were Gypsies.

Marius
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:42 AM
Do you know whether they were from the SW part? Mediterranean is actually quite rare in Slovenia, especially in the east.

They were living in Ljubljiana and worked at the Technical University. I am not giving names here, but they had Slavic names. So, I presumed they were Slovenes.



If I were to go by most of the people who were passing themselvess off as Romanians, I'd think that most Romanians were Gypsies.

After your reaction, one might say you are a Nordicist, too...
I think I should not come back again on the issue of gypsies, already millions of times presented.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:46 AM
They were living in Ljubljiana and worked at the Technical University. I am not giving names here, but they had Slavic names. So, I presumed they were Slovenes.

Most immigrants are Slavic (from ex Yugoslavia).





After your reaction, one might say you are a Nordicist, too...

Marius, relax. You took it the wrong way. Entirely wrong... :anieyes



I think I should not come back again on the issue of gypsies, already millions of times presented.

:scratch

ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTION:

Are there Gypsies residing in Romania? If so, how many are there? Do they consider themselves to be Romanians and do they introduce themselves as Romanians?

Marius
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 09:52 AM
First, I wonder what is the meaning of such questions.


Most immigrants are Slavic (from ex Yugoslavia).

Oh, come on, Triglav, you will not imply now Slovenes are not Slavic... :)



Are there Gypsies residing in Romania?

Yes, and it is the fault of Romanians, isn't it?... :roll



If so, how many are there?

Officially? 1,8%.
Non-officially (imo)? 11-12%. I include some Pontid-Dinarid combinations through Gypsies and it is not only my view.



Do they consider themselves to be Romanians and do they introduce themselves as Romanians?

They have a Romanian passport, but in Romania, there is an official difference between citizenship and nationality. It is not like in Western Europe, where once an immigrant has a local passport presents himself as a local.

And some of them consider themselves Romanian, but many of them, not. Perhaps they may use it outside in order to avoid problems, they still create. Or perhaps it is the foreign authorities who do not care about nationality, but only about the citizenship written on the passport.

dazed&confused
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 02:23 PM
The romanian immigrants I've met so far here in Italy were very dark in complexion, they kinda looked like turks or middle-easterners. A few days ago I saw a tv documentary about Bucarest and the local people were definitely fairer than the romanian specimens I'm talking about. So this makes me think the supposed romanians I've known were actually gypsies, even though they defined theirselves simply as "romanians".

Marius
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 02:37 PM
The romanian immigrants I've met so far here in Italy were very dark in complexion, they kinda looked like turks or middle-easterners. A few days ago I saw a tv documentary about Bucarest and the local people were definitely fairer than the romanian specimens I'm talking about. So this makes me think the supposed romanians I've known were actually gypsies, even though they defined theirselves simply as "romanians".

Well, there are two types of Romanian immigrants or occassional workers. A very high and educated class, who is usually not "dark" (as you said :)) and another important number of simple people. The tragic thing is that you do not notice the ones who are ok, who maybe are the majority, but ... guess who... the out-of-order ones. They tend to get bold anytime... :(

Triglav
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 07:12 PM
First, I wonder what is the meaning of such questions.

To clarify some misunderstandings, obviously. I still remember you as one pf the most down-to-earth guys around here, so I'm not giving up on you. ;)




Oh, come on, Triglav, you will not imply now Slovenes are not Slavic... :)

Marius, you completely misunderstood what I said. Slovenes are Slavic, but so are most immigrants (Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians) and they have Slavic names as well. You can't infer that they are Slovene from the fact that they have a Slavic name. The name should be specifically Slovene, and even that does not a Slovene maketh. The first Black in Slovenia went by the name of Janez Novak. Go figure. Legend has it that he froze to death. :cold





Yes, and it is the fault of Romanians, isn't it?... :roll

You are barking up the wrong tree, I'm afraid. It's not the fault of Romanians. You mistake me for some Nutzi you've had the misfortune of talking to at this forum. I'm not one of them.





Officially? 1,8%.
Non-officially (imo)? 11-12%.

That's what I've been saying. There are Gypsies in Romania. It's a (sad) fact. When abroad, these Gypsies pretend to be Romanians.

You see, the purpose of my questions was to illustrate that these people consider themselves to be Romanians, just like immigrants from other countries. Immigrants in Slovenia consider themselves to be Slovenians. Blacks in France feel themselves to be French and they even have French names. You can't jump to conclusions and declare them to be natives just because they have "Romance names".


I include some Pontid-Dinarid combinations through Gypsies and it is not only my view.

You mean from the ethnic Romanian population? How so?





They have a Romanian passport, but in Romania, there is an official difference between citizenship and nationality. It is not like in Western Europe, where once an immigrant has a local passport presents himself as a local.

That's great. That's certainly an advantage you have over WE.


And some of them consider themselves Romanian, but many of them, not. Perhaps they may use it outside in order to avoid problems, they still create. Or perhaps it is the foreign authorities who do not care about nationality, but only about the citizenship written on the passport.

Many people (at least abroad) mistake Romanian Gypsies for Romanians, since the latter pose as Romanians. I, for one, do not mistake them for natives. You might be in the same position by claiming you know ethnic Slovenes, even though having a Slavic name and living in Slovenia does not equal being Slovene.

And that was my point. :)

Triglav
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 07:13 PM
The romanian immigrants I've met so far here in Italy were very dark in complexion, they kinda looked like turks or middle-easterners. A few days ago I saw a tv documentary about Bucarest and the local people were definitely fairer than the romanian specimens I'm talking about. So this makes me think the supposed romanians I've known were actually gypsies, even though they defined theirselves simply as "romanians".

My point exactly.

Wichmann
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 07:39 PM
The first Black in Slovenia went by the name of Janez Novak. Go figure. Legend has it that he froze to death. :cold
:goldcup

You're kidding!

Triglav
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 03:50 AM
:goldcup

You're kidding!

:nope

Marius
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 10:56 AM
You mean from the ethnic Romanian population? How so?

Well, you know very well how it is going. The normal people do not know anything about racial classifications. And if they see somebody more tanned and not very clean and arranged, they might consider him Gypsie.

Penn ar bed
Friday, April 14th, 2006, 07:01 AM
Brittany contains also its fair share of Alpinids, ascribed to a more primitive Lappish-looking type(including incipient mongolism), the so-called Breiz type.Huhh?? Where have you seen that?
Here is some well know Bretons, I think they look mostly atlantid:
http://www.toutelatele.com/IMG/jpg/ppda_2005a_etienne_chognard.jpghttp://www.pias.com/v4/news/images%5C118.jpghttp://www.as.com/diarioasmedia/impresa/media/200407/10/masdeporte/20040710dasdaimas_2_I_SCO.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Jean-marie_le_pen.jpghttp://www.multiplast-yachts.com/img/upload/petite/Portrait_Kersau.jpg

Youenn
Monday, April 17th, 2006, 01:47 AM
Here is some well know Bretons, I think they look mostly atlantid:

I agree. Breton people are mostly Atlantid/North-Atlantid like Wales.

PS : PPDA is not fully Breton (50% french I believe).

Liquid Len
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 01:33 AM
According to a relatively recent study from 1974 using comparatively fresh statistical data, the Northwest of France, including Brittany, is the place where a low facial index overlaps with a short stature, a still predominant brachycephaly, relatively high relative sitting height, large chest measurements and a high nose index. All these characteristics are typical for Alpinids. And all other regions of France diverge from this average in one way or the other. I.e. there is no region in France that is on average more typically Alpine than the Northwest.

Liquid Len
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 01:15 PM
In Switzerland the most Alpinid areas are 1, 5 and 6 on this map:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6008/1110rc.png

I've drawn in the areas with the tallest and the shortest average statures.
7 is short too, but apparently due to an old Gracilmediterranid influence rather than an Alpinid one.
The remaining numbers have the tallest means. 8 is tall Alpinoid, 4 and 9 is Atlantid or Atlanto-Mediterranid.

Rhydderch
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Huhh?? Where have you seen that?
Here is some well know Bretons, I think they look mostly atlantid:
http://www.toutelatele.com/IMG/jpg/ppda_2005a_etienne_chognard.jpghttp://www.pias.com/v4/news/images%5C118.jpghttp://www.as.com/diarioasmedia/impresa/media/200407/10/masdeporte/20040710dasdaimas_2_I_SCO.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Jean-marie_le_pen.jpghttp://www.multiplast-yachts.com/img/upload/petite/Portrait_Kersau.jpg

Actually I think the first three do show signs of Alpinid influence, however I don't think the Alpine element in Brittanny is necessarily of a different variety than that found further east. The mongolid-like element (and I have seen it on Bretons) is perhaps the same as that found in peripheral areas of western Britain and Ireland (and other parts of Europe), rather than anything to do with Alpines.
From my observation the Alpine element seems to be as strong in Brittanny as in other parts of France; I think I've also read that there is a sizeable element there.

The last two seem to show considerable Brunn influence.

Liquid Len
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 08:26 PM
From my observation the Alpine element seems to be as strong in Brittanny as in other parts of France;

So, how do you explain the fact that other parts of France have certain average properties (in face index, nose index, cephalic index etc, etc.) that deviate more or less from the definition of an Alpinid??

No, the statistics demonstrate that the Alpinid element is nowhere as strong as it is in the Northwestern corner, most of Brittany included.

Liquid Len
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 08:28 PM
Here an improved version of my Swiss map.

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/7389/bbbb1kp.png

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/7389/bbbb1kp.png (http://imageshack.us)

I've added some previously unconsidered areas of tall average statures and I've corrected some (smaller) mistakes. Furthermore I've filled the marked areas with colours corresponding to the predominant subracial element within them.

shortest areas:
red = Alpinid
light grey = Gracilmediterranid

tallest areas:
light blue = Alpinoid (do not confound with the lakes which have a similar colour, but no edge)
dark blue = Atlanto-Mediterranid or Atlantid
black = similar to dark blue, but somewhat lighter in colours (more Nordid)
dark grey = somewhat Dinaricised; "Keltid"

(I’ve based my division on the average distribution of the stature, the cephalic index and the facial index. In the case of the tall Leptodolichomorphs I’ve also taken the pigmentation into account.)

Rhydderch
Monday, May 8th, 2006, 03:04 AM
So, how do you explain the fact that other parts of France have certain average properties (in face index, nose index, cephalic index etc, etc.) that deviate more or less from the definition of an Alpinid??I'm not sure whether you're disagreeing with me here. What I'm saying is that there seems to be a strong Alpinid element in Brittany. Personally I would'nt know where Alpinids are concentrated, since I've never been to France, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's even commoner in Brittany, as your information seems to suggest.


No, the statistics demonstrate that the Alpinid element is nowhere as strong as it is in the Northwestern corner, most of Brittany included.My meaning could have been conveyed equally well by saying Alpinids are not rarer in Brittany.

Youenn
Thursday, June 29th, 2006, 01:04 AM
Subrace in Brittany :

http://forum.stirpes.net/showthread.php?t=8233


Very interesting

After a quick view, I see Alpinids, Atlantids, Nordids, Atlantids, Cro magnids/Borrebies and dinaromorphic Nordids and Atlantids who can be classified as Keltids. (for example the 'Kan Tri' musicians with their low sloping forehead and sharp noses seem perfect examples, also the sportsman Loick Peyron)

What strikes a difference is the virtual absence of textbook Gracile Mediterranids (as one would expect further south..maybe like in Bordeaux or Toulouse). This element being mainly diluited in the stronger Alpine component. But even the Alpine component presents a strong variety and especially leptomorphised types.

Its this Alpine element combined with less blondism and the higher CI to be the main difference from South/Western English, but on the other hand there are elements such as: The Nordid, the Alpinoid/Cro magnoid, the Atlantid and the Keltid who point strongly to North Western Atlantic Europe.


I think if going after those pictures Alpinoid and Atlantomediterranid is dominant, followed by Nordid, Cromagnoid and Dinaroid variants, in that order, with many Atlantomediterranid-Alpinoid intermediates seeming to have "Dinariomorphic qualities".

Pro-Alpine
Thursday, June 29th, 2006, 01:13 AM
Here In Hungary it is the Hajdú-Bihar county, in my opinion.

Pro-Alpine
Monday, August 21st, 2006, 04:15 AM
I have travelled all over my country as well as neighbouring countries. So i think it's save for me to say eastern Hungary and western Transylvania, would be the most common reigons for Alpines.

Tancred
Thursday, January 28th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Where, and I mean quite specifically, in Europe would one find the heaviest concentrations of Alpines?

Bavaria? Baden? Central France? Slovakia? I know one website estimates the centre of Alpinism to be in Luxomburg, but I don't buy that. The population sample taken was much too small to meet with strict empirical standards of research. I've also heard Sicily too, and I agree Siciily is home to many a corpulant Italian, but I believe the Alpine samples there are more likely a mixture of many things including Dinarics and Mediterraneans.

Thanks

France has the biggest proportion of Alpinids. There are also high proportions of alpinids in Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg and south-west Germany. Smaller but still substantial numbers exist in northern Italy.