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cosmocreator
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 04:57 AM
How much it (IQ) correlates with intelligence... eh, who cares? Stupid people don't know they're stupid, so what's the point of thinking you're smart?

Which brings up a good point. Retards can't comprehend that there are people with 140+ IQs. But imagine that there is an intelligence behind the universe, that makes the most intelligent human look like a supreme retard. Humans think highly of themselves. Too highly I think. I think they should be more humble in that respect.

I think there is a higher intelligence behind the universe because without it, there would be no purpose to anything. No direction. Nothing. But there is a direction. Everything has a purpose, even if we don't understand it at this point in time.

Scoob
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 05:03 AM
Which brings up a good point. Retards can't comprehend that there are people with 140+ IQs. But imagine that there is an intelligence behind the universe, that makes the most intelligent human look like a supreme retard. Humans think highly of themselves. Too highly I think. I think they should be more humble in that respect.

I think there is a higher intelligence behind the universe because without it, there would be no purpose to anything. No direction. Nothing. But there is a direction. Everything has a purpose, even if we don't understand it at this point in time.
I think there might be order behind apparently random things that humans experience. This is the realm of physics and metaphysics. I also think that such order is somewhat irrelevant to human life. Do the bacteria living in my gut really need to understand my posts on the Internet, or even that I exist? It's irrelevant to their existence.

cosmocreator
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 05:07 AM
Do the bacteria living in my gut really need to understand my posts on the Internet, or even that I exist? It's irrelevant to their existence.


They are not aware that you exist. Nor are they aware that your intelligence is greater than theirs. What you just said adds support to my argument. Imagine humans as being in the gut of something larger that we can not even comprehend.

Scoob
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 05:17 AM
They are not aware that you exist. Nor are they aware that your intelligence is greater than theirs. What you just said adds support to my argument. Imagine humans as being in the gut of something larger that we can not even comprehend.
Right. So imagine that everything I do is part of some the plan of some super-human entity. What's that got to do with me? It's beyond me.

Moody
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 04:57 PM
Which brings up a good point. Retards can't comprehend that there are people with 140+ IQs. But imagine that there is an intelligence behind the universe, that makes the most intelligent human look like a supreme retard. Humans think highly of themselves. Too highly I think. I think they should be more humble in that respect.

I think there is a higher intelligence behind the universe because without it, there would be no purpose to anything. No direction. Nothing. But there is a direction. Everything has a purpose, even if we don't understand it at this point in time.

This is mere speculation of course.
It is far more likely to be the case that human beings NEED to give purpose and direction to things.
This can be shown by our tendency to rationalise dis-connected events; to find reasons for accidents [e.g., conspiracy theories over the death of Diana Princess of Wales in a car-crash etc.,]
We even tend to see 'faces' in abstract marks [man in the moon etc.,].

From this tendency we then assume there to be an intelligence 'behind' the world, but there is no real evidence for this.
Arguments from intelligent design can alternatively be explained far more plausibly [and elegantly] by evolution.

It is enough to say that we need purpose to give life a sense of a goal; that doesn't mean that a goal is inherent in life itself.
The goal is in us.
As is God.

Indeed, our smallness to which you at first refer, seems to suggest that there is no grand plan for humans in the Universe. We are more probably a result of an accident which is of complete unimportance.
There is no real goal to the Universe which is vast beyond our human comprehension.
To say that this Universe is governed by an 'intelligence' is just a way of trying to put what is incomprehensible into a human strait-jacket.

Mistress Klaus
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 05:16 PM
Which brings up a good point. Retards can't comprehend that there are people with 140+ IQs. But imagine that there is an intelligence behind the universe, that makes the most intelligent human look like a supreme retard. Humans think highly of themselves. Too highly I think. I think they should be more humble in that respect.

I think there is a higher intelligence behind the universe because without it, there would be no purpose to anything. No direction. Nothing. But there is a direction. Everything has a purpose, even if we don't understand it at this point in time.


Yes I think humans are laughable creatures really....Their bombastic 'so- called' knowledge of evolution, the universe, religion etc... :halo ...please spare me......I still think we(humans) are some kind of creation made by 'the aliens'...I mean this phrase in speculation..... Wake up you stupid humans.....we are not the centre of the universe :doh ...there is far more superior beings out there....we are their freak sideshow.....they occasionally slum it...and visit earth to view the misfits of their creation....An evil 'alien' with the spirit of the god LOKI made man..... ;)

Scoob
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 10:36 PM
Yes I think humans are laughable creatures really....Their bombastic 'so- called' knowledge of evolution, the universe, religion etc... :halo ...please spare me......I still think we(humans) are some kind of creation made by 'the aliens'...I mean this phrase in speculation..... Wake up you stupid humans.....we are not the centre of the universe :doh ...there is far more superior beings out there....we are their freak sideshow.....they occasionally slum it...and visit earth to view the misfits of their creation....An evil 'alien' with the spirit of the god LOKI made man..... ;)
I think most of what people call god is a sort of group-superego. It might have some kind of existence, as an "egregor" - some kind of energy or bioelectric/magnetic resonance frequency or something. Or could just be an "emergent phenomenon" of the System of a human group.

stroker
Thursday, April 1st, 2004, 10:55 PM
This is mere speculation of course.
It is far more likely to be the case that human beings NEED to give purpose and direction to things.

From this tendency we then assume there to be an intelligence 'behind' the world, but there is no real evidence for this.
Arguments from intelligent design can alternatively be explained far more plausibly [and elegantly] by evolution.

It is enough to say that we need purpose to give life a sense of a goal; that doesn't mean that a goal is inherent in life itself.
The goal is in us.
As is God.



I think this is right. Without life being given some meaning or purpose there is no point to being here.
I have traversed the dark corners of my mind for a meaning and a purpose to it all. I have sought solice in various narcotics and the like and have emerged from the other side just as empty and just as clueless as to the reasons we are all here.
In the end if I didn't have my dogs and horses to look after I would long ago have slashed my wrists. I still do not know what the purpose of us being here is, but I do know the purpose of my animals being here....they keep me alive.......regardless of any grander and as yet unrevealed plan any God may have.

Moody
Saturday, April 3rd, 2004, 03:00 AM
stroker; "I think this is right. Without life being given some meaning or purpose there is no point to being here".

Moody; Something of a truism if we take 'purpose' and 'point' to mean the same thing.
However, there is another outlook which says that we look that meaninglessness in the face and make life itself the point ... of life.
Is the strongest man he who is able to live a full life WITHOUT ILLUSION?

stroker; "I have traversed the dark corners of my mind for a meaning and a purpose to it all. I have sought solice in various narcotics and the like and have emerged from the other side just as empty and just as clueless as to the reasons we are all here".

Moody; Cup half full or half 'empty'?
I am interested in what you say about narcotics; could you expand on that in relation to 'intelligence' in the widest sense?

stroker; "In the end if I didn't have my dogs and horses to look after I would long ago have slashed my wrists".

Moody; What a divine assertion!
But then the answer may be for those who cannot believe, but also cannot face the emptiness, to give their lives to other beings.
All misanthropists prefer animals to humans, hence my liking of your statement.
Now I know why you call yourself 'stroker';
'I pressed her thigh and death smiled' (JDM, 'Lament for My Cock')

stroker; "I still do not know what the purpose of us being here is, but I do know the purpose of my animals being here....they keep me alive.......regardless of any grander and as yet unrevealed plan any God may have".

Moody; You may find much in Savitri Devi's work to agree with.

bocian
Sunday, April 4th, 2004, 04:06 PM
I think this is right. Without life being given some meaning or purpose there is no point to being here.
I have traversed the dark corners of my mind for a meaning and a purpose to it all. I have sought solice in various narcotics and the like and have emerged from the other side just as empty and just as clueless as to the reasons we are all here.
In the end if I didn't have my dogs and horses to look after I would long ago have slashed my wrists. I still do not know what the purpose of us being here is, but I do know the purpose of my animals being here....they keep me alive.......regardless of any grander and as yet unrevealed plan any God may have.

Humans simply do not have the ability to logically comprehend existence.

You either want to live or you don't, it's very simple. Do we really need a purpose?

stroker
Sunday, April 4th, 2004, 11:38 PM
stroker; "I think this is right. Without life being given some meaning or purpose there is no point to being here".
my point of view exactly


Moody; Something of a truism if we take 'purpose' and 'point' to mean the same thing.
However, there is another outlook which says that we look that meaninglessness in the face and make life itself the point ... of life.
Is the strongest man he who is able to live a full life WITHOUT ILLUSION?

stroker; "I have traversed the dark corners of my mind for a meaning and a purpose to it all. I have sought solice in various narcotics and the like and have emerged from the other side just as empty and just as clueless as to the reasons we are all here".

Moody; Cup half full or half 'empty'?
I am interested in what you say about narcotics; could you expand on that in relation to 'intelligence' in the widest sense?

I'm a cup is half empty kind of bloke.
How do you want me to expand on narcotics/intelligence ? It could take a separate forum. I know now that taking such things is not intelligent. But when you are under the influence of say...LSD (acid) for example you think you can figure out the meaning to it all and you feel like your mind has expanded and it probably has to some extent but it only lasts as long as the dose and is most likely as real as the visual illusions that come with it.


stroker; "In the end if I didn't have my dogs and horses to look after I would long ago have slashed my wrists".

Moody; What a divine assertion!
But then the answer may be for those who cannot believe, but also cannot face the emptiness, to give their lives to other beings.
All misanthropists prefer animals to humans, hence my liking of your statement.
I am one who prefers the company of animals...with them what you see is what you get. Have been kicked in the head and decieved by too many people as well as a hard life to have a rosey outlook on life. Some find joy in everything others do not.


Now I know why you call yourself 'stroker';
'I pressed her thigh and death smiled' (JDM, 'Lament for My Cock')
the name is a porn industry name Peter Stroker a play on words, Peter is slang for penis. We all have strange aliases in the Jiz Biz.


stroker; "I still do not know what the purpose of us being here is, but I do know the purpose of my animals being here....they keep me alive.......regardless of any grander and as yet unrevealed plan any God may have".

Moody; You may find much in Savitri Devi's work to agree with.How do you break up the quotes into peices to place replies in the one post....anyone ? Yes Yes I know, damn computer illiterate I am :D

cosmocreator
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 06:28 AM
How do you break up the quotes into peices to place replies in the one post....anyone ? Yes Yes I know, damn computer illiterate I am :D


To place a quote you use:

[QUOTE]what you want to quote[*/QUOTE]

but removed the *

Also, you can see how to use many different codes here:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/misc.php?do=bbcode

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 07:49 AM
I think there is a higher intelligence behind the universe because without it, there would be no purpose to anything. No direction. Nothing. But there is a direction. Everything has a purpose, even if we don't understand it at this point in time.

If the universe goes on forever, then our reality must be one of an infinate number of possiblities. There need be no reason other than mathematical certainty.

cosmocreator
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 07:59 AM
If the universe goes on forever, then our reality must be one of an infinate number of possiblities.


I think humans think in terms of beginnings and ends because that's all we see. The universe goes on forever, because there is nothing *beyond* the universe.



There need be no reason other than mathematical certainty.


Do the mathematics:

If we could travel at an infinite speed over an infinite distance, where would we be?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 08:07 AM
I think humans think in terms of beginnings and ends because that's all we see. The universe goes on forever, because there is nothing *beyond* the universe.

Most European religions see things as cyclic. The beginning and end sound Judeo-Christian to me.


Do the mathematics:

If we could travel at an infinite speed over an infinite distance, where would we be?

Maybe we are and have and maybe we are all right here, now.

cosmocreator
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 08:21 AM
I wish I could edit your post because part of your reply is within my quote. Old aryan does the same thing. You old timers haven't mastered the language yet. :P

stroker
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 09:17 AM
I wish I could edit your post
Just


because part of your reply is within my quote.
having


Old aryan does the same thing.
a trial


You old timers haven't mastered the language yet. :P
rum...er run:D

stroker
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 09:19 AM
Hey Cosmo thanks bloke.
You know what they say about you can't be true:)

cosmocreator
Monday, April 5th, 2004, 08:20 PM
@stroker :thumbsup

Now I need to teach old aryan and Dr. Solar Wolff. :)

Moody
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 07:32 PM
Ludwig Klages put it nicely;

"MEANING AND PURPOSE. Everything purposeful is meaningless, and everything meaningful is purposeless".
[Klages, aphorism 71]

On narcotics, I was thinking of Aldous Huxley's contention; he said that just as we are finding out that the Universe is infinitely more vast then we ever imagined before, so too is our inner mental universe infinitely more vast. Narcotics can help to EXPLORE those reaches of inner space that are usually closed to us.
We can make parallels with lack of atmosphere, gravity etc., and throw in Blake's if the doors of perception were cleansed then we would see things as they really are - infinite.

We NEED not only 'purpose' [see Klages], but also limitation. Without limitation we are like a man floating in outer space without a space-suit.

stroker
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 11:53 PM
Ludwig Klages put it nicely;

"MEANING AND PURPOSE. Everything purposeful is meaningless, and everything meaningful is purposeless".
[Klages, aphorism 71]
I think this bloke must have been Irish !?:D


On narcotics, I was thinking of Aldous Huxley's contention; he said that just as we are finding out that the Universe is infinitely more vast then we ever imagined before, so too is our inner mental universe infinitely more vast. Narcotics can help to EXPLORE those reaches of inner space that are usually closed to us.
We can make parallels with lack of atmosphere, gravity etc., and throw in Blake's if the doors of perception were cleansed then we would see things as they really are - infinite.

We NEED not only 'purpose' [see Klages], but also limitation. Without limitation we are like a man floating in outer space without a space-suit.
This is true about the narcotics experience (especially so of LSD) but just how much of the experience is real and how much is illusion ? I do believe that some substances increase our ability to think more expansively to an extent, just as others decrease our ability to think and focus. But it is hard to tell when under the influence just how much is fact and how much is fantasy....although it all makes sense when your under the influence, does it really make sense in hindsight ?

Moody
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 04:55 PM
I think this bloke must have been Irish !?:D
This is true about the narcotics experience (especially so of LSD) but just how much of the experience is real and how much is illusion ? I do believe that some substances increase our ability to think more expansively to an extent, just as others decrease our ability to think and focus. But it is hard to tell when under the influence just how much is fact and how much is fantasy....although it all makes sense when your under the influence, does it really make sense in hindsight ?

I hope the first remark is not meant as a racial slur, stroker!

Klages' paradoxical statement carries a high degree of truth; it is the activities which lack any clear purpose which are the most meaningful - like art and philosophy.
Whilst those activities which profess a purpose - like economics and dogmatic religion are ultimately meaningless.

The paradox is worth thinking about at the start of any activity.

The question of narcotics is an epistemological one; is a trip any less 'real' than a daydream or a nocturnal fantasy?
It could be more 'real'.
And what of the day to day reality - how 'real' is that?
You may say that the danger of injury or death makes it more real - but then are our bodies the real us?
Was the 'you' of ten years ago 'real', or was it all a dream?

To some, the products of the Imagination are the most REAL. In that case, the experiences of heightened consciousness on a trip [or in a meditation] could be seen as the most real.

Where are most real - in your mind or in your body?

stroker
Thursday, April 15th, 2004, 12:47 PM
I hope the first remark is not meant as a racial slur, stroker!
No No it can't be ''racist'' if I'm two parts Irish can it ?:D
Now a ''slur'' ?
Yep definitely a ''slur'' ! :D
No not really even a slur it's just the sort of paradoxical statement that is commonly attributed to the Irish.


Klages' paradoxical statement carries a high degree of truth; it is the activities which lack any clear purpose which are the most meaningful - like art and philosophy.
Whilst those activities which profess a purpose - like economics and dogmatic religion are ultimately meaningless.

The paradox is worth thinking about at the start of any activity.

The question of narcotics is an epistemological one; is a trip any less 'real' than a daydream or a nocturnal fantasy?
It could be more 'real'.
And what of the day to day reality - how 'real' is that?
You may say that the danger of injury or death makes it more real - but then are our bodies the real us?
Was the 'you' of ten years ago 'real', or was it all a dream?

To some, the products of the Imagination are the most REAL. In that case, the experiences of heightened consciousness on a trip [or in a meditation] could be seen as the most real.

Where are most real - in your mind or in your body?
This is well put Moody I like it , but we would be hard pressed to know which it was fantasy or reality. Like, did I just really logon and write this or was it unreal ? You see it, I see it, others see it, we can explain it in a so called scientific manner but is it real we all see David Blain or David Copperfield do things.....are they real? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Siegfried
Monday, April 26th, 2004, 06:50 PM
http://www.rosenoire.org/articles/biocentrism.php

Nuovo Vesuvio
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 10:54 AM
Everything is real. there is no such thing as unreal. Life is a game, in which we are the inhabitants. An eXperiment. It is very similar to a virtual reality program. It is created by source. As for purpose, yes, everyone has a divine purpose. Not many people you will meet have discovered it.

Wissen ist Macht
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 11:06 AM
Very interesting question. The intelligence behind all things was covered in the July issue of the German magazine "P.M.".
I am way not educated enough to understand or explain what the portrayed experiment was about, but it has to do with quantum physics.

The article spans several pages and would be hard to translate, that's why I only post this link which was given in the article too!

http://www.quantumphil.org

Edit:
The introduction of the page linked above is as follows and should make understandable what it's all about! ;)

Recent experiments have put in evidence that the correlations caused by a two-particles quantum entanglement cannot be described in terms of "before" and "after": The time-notion makes sense only in the domain of the relativistic local phenomena. In the realm of the nonlocal quantum phenomena, things come to pass but the time doesn't seem to pass here. The Center for Quantum Philosophy, based in Zurich and Geneva, aims at wide spreading this discovery, and to stimulate the discussion about its cultural and philosophical implications.

Risk a look. It is VERY interesting and maybe also a bit disturbing! ;)

Nuovo Vesuvio
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 02:20 PM
unfortunately, i dont understand german so i wont be able to read the whole article - shame...never mind. Reading the introduction you translated, this is the merge of science and metaphysics. Slowly but surely, human science will discover what we metaphysicians, alchemists knew centuries ago. It seems in the brief paragrapgh it is dealing with time at the subatomic level - it is saying there is no after or before. We already know that as alchemists - time does not exist, it is merely an illusion - patterns of loops based on sacred geometry. We live in the NOW. There is no before or after if you think of it that way. If only scientists stopped wasting there time trying to discover what they don't believe, that has already been discovered.

Wissen ist Macht
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Hello Nuovo - you can read more articles in English on the page I placed a link to! The paragraph is taken from that website. ;)
As I said before my knowledge in such things is way too small but from what I can see, the scientists discovered something very important which will affect future theories.

jugurtha
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 06:56 PM
Which brings up a good point. Retards can't comprehend that there are people with 140+ IQs. But imagine that there is an intelligence behind the universe, that makes the most intelligent human look like a supreme retard. Humans think highly of themselves. Too highly I think. I think they should be more humble in that respect.

I think there is a higher intelligence behind the universe because without it, there would be no purpose to anything. No direction. Nothing. But there is a direction. Everything has a purpose, even if we don't understand it at this point in time.

Hi,

actually this is the FIRST iteration of the reasoning.

You reiterate the same reasoning until infinity. BTW mathematically/logically speaking, there is even a hierarchy among infinities (cardinality).

The reasoning will led you to conclude that GOD (the real ONE) is not a stupid hypothesis, whatever the aspect it shows. I am not speaking of the retards of religion.


There are many things we will never be aware of because of our finiteness.

Let's think with a higher level of abstraction and openess.