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Taras Bulba
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 04:52 PM
Virgin Mary in Bavaria Starts to Cry

The believers could hardly believe their eyes. The Madonna statue in a hostel for pilgrims in the Bavarian village of Heroldsbach suddenly started crying recently. But is it real? The local priest wants to have the tears sent to a lab for an authenticity test.

Dozens of witnesses were on hand for the miracle. A Madonna statue in a hostel for pilgrims in the small Bavarian town of Heroldsbach suddenly began shedding tears two weeks ago -- fat drops of water running down her cheek and dripping off her chin. For skeptics, the photos are difficult to ignore. One worshipper even kissed one of the tears which had run down Mother Mary's cheek and plopped onto her hand.

"They tasted salty," Annegret Mewis told the German news agency ddp. "They must have been real tears." Indeed, virtually every one of the 60 or so faithful present were likewise convinced that they had just witnessed a miracle.

Read the rest here:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,472110,00.html

Pervitinist
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Nothing is esteemed a miracle, if it ever happen in the common course of nature. It is no miracle that a man, seemingly in good health, should die on a sudden: because such a kind of death, though more unusual than any other, has yet been frequently observed to happen. But it is a miracle, that a dead man should come to life; because that has never been observed in any age or country. There must, therefore, be a uniform experience against every miraculous event, otherwise the event would not merit that appellation....

The plain consequence is (and it is a general maxim worthy of our attention), 'That no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous, than the fact, which it endeavours to establish....' When anyone tells me, that he saw a dead man restored to life, I immediately consider with myself, whether it be more probable, that this person should either deceive or be deceived, or that the fact, which he relates, should really have happened. I weigh the one miracle against the other; and according to the superiority, which I discover, I pronounce my decision, and always reject the greater miracle. If the falsehood of his testimony would be more miraculous, than the event which he relates; then, and not till then, can he pretend to command my belief or opinion.

In the foregoing reasoning we have supposed, that the testimony, upon which a miracle is founded, may possibly amount to an entire proof, and that the falsehood of that testimony would be a real prodigy: But it is easy to shew, that we have been a great deal too liberal in our concession, and that there never was a miraculous event established on so full an evidence.
From David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, L. A. Selby Bigge, ed. (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1902), pp. 114-16.

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 06:24 PM
You're lucky I find discussions about miracles and angels tedious and boring. ;)

Pro-Alpine
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Don't these cases often turn out to be hoaxes?

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Yes. Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic Church does not readily embrace stories of miracles and such, and when such claims are made intensive investigations are made to see whether or not there is any validity to such.

This happened even in many of the most famous stories of miracles within Catholic tradition. Just turning to the example of Lourdes, there was much skepticism among the local Church officials towards Bernadette's story about seeing the Virgin Mary.

Even when such incidents are declared "worthy of faith"(which btw is very very very rare), a Catholic is not necessarily required to believe that a miracle actually happened. Which Im actually happy for, since overall Im skeptical of such claims.

All I can say is, hopefully this is a hoax. If it's geniune, then the fact the Virgin Mary is crying generally means that really bad things are going to happen - particularly to Germany.

Pervitinist
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 08:11 PM
All I can say is, hopefully this is a hoax. If it's geniune, then the fact the Virgin Mary is crying generally means that really bad things are going to happen - particularly to Germany.

That's interesting. Do you know of concrete cases where the tears of Mary turned out to be a bad omen?

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 08:16 PM
No not off the top of my head. Miracles and such are not my speciality.

Old Fritz
Wednesday, March 21st, 2007, 01:28 AM
A weeping statue....hmmmmm. Kind of a worthless miracle, isn't it? :wsg

Liberator Germaniae
Friday, March 23rd, 2007, 11:35 PM
Virgin Mary in Bavaria Starts to Cry

What a coincidence: a framed picture of Jesus on the Andaman islands is reported to ooze blood.


Worshippers flock to 'bleeding' print of Jesus

Port Blair, India

21 March 2007 11:53

Worshippers in India's remote Andaman islands are rushing for a glimpse of a picture of Jesus Christ amid reports that it was oozing blood, witnesses said on Wednesday.

Thousands of people, mostly Christians, mobbed the home of a bishop in Port Blair, capital of the Indian Ocean chain, to pray before the framed print, police said.

"The bleeding has stopped, but still people are visiting the bishop's house to ask about the miracle," said Eric Nathaniel, a local police officer who was the original owner of the picture.

Nathaniel said he had brought the portrait to the home of Paul Christopher, bishop of the Church of Northern India in the Andamans, where thousands of people were killed in the 2004 Asian tsunami.

"On March 8, at 8.30pm, my family and I returned home from shopping and as we entered the house we could not believe our eyes," said Nathaniel, who belongs to the Andamans' Nicobarese tribespeople.

"There was blood flowing from the portrait of Jesus Christ on a table in our dining room," the officer said, adding that the "bleeding" stopped on Monday.

"We lit candles and prayed and after some time the blood dried, but it was again there two days later. Blood also oozed from the hands and heart of another portrait of Jesus hung on the wall in the sitting room," he said.

Nathaniel said he brought the picture to the bishop's official home because he wanted people to see the "miracle".

Christopher was not present in Port Blair for comment, but other Catholic priests insisted a "miracle" was in the works.

"It's a sign that Jesus is crying because of our sinful ways," said John Chrysostom, an Anglican priest posted in the island group. "It's a miracle and all should seek his blessings." -- Sapa-AFP



Source (http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=302622&area=/breaking_news/other_news/)

Pervitinist
Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 12:01 AM
This brought me to another idea.

Couldn't the "Mary" figures also - at least in an allegorical sense - be interpreted as depictions of heathen goddesses?

And if so, what could their tears signify from a Pagan perspective?

Liberator Germaniae
Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 12:15 AM
And if so, what could their tears signify from a Pagan perspective?

I think that the Pagan perspective that you mention is one aspect of the global point of view. There might be an overlap with the particular constellation of Sun, Earth and Moon (the moon is a standard item of the iconography of Mary) last week, that occurs every 18 years only (next time 2024/25 = end of the Hopi Calendar!) and causes the tides all over the world’s shore to swell considerably (substantial damage, for instance, was caused last week to the shore of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa).

Images that bleed or ooze could perhaps be in touch with the morphogenetic field of the earth and its fate.

Ragnar Thorsson
Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 12:26 AM
Re: Virgin Mary in Bavaria Starts to Cry
Perhaps a little bit evil:flame but . .

http://www.haxed.co.uk/gallery/albums/ownage/lmao-real.jpg

[/offtopic]

Peter
Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 08:59 PM
I don´t know if it´s a hoax or reality, but in general terms, I am with the Tara´s interpretation.

Aupmanyav
Sunday, March 25th, 2007, 12:04 PM
What have the Germans done now to make her cry?

Pervitinist
Sunday, March 25th, 2007, 12:07 PM
What have the Germans done now to make her cry?

Good question. Perhaps it's because we didn't win the football World Cup? :P

Boche
Sunday, March 25th, 2007, 01:05 PM
Such stuff is just good to convince people. Even the roman catholics used to use pipes inside the statue for tears, or they have put their own blood on the statues eyes and then called everyone and said "Oh my God!".

There is no reason to trust catholic christiany in any way. And to combine it with Pagan Meanings might be a nice fantasy connection. But even to consider a Stone which is crying might be more a metapher.
Maybe the Statue is able to save alot o rainwater, and sometimes the stone lets it flow out in the statues face.
It's the same with those people who claim Stigmatas, without knowing that jesus wasn't nailed upon a cross. Nor died upon a cross - since he died due to the Spear of Longinus.




Gruß,
Boche