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Taras Bulba
Sunday, March 11th, 2007, 08:16 PM
For the most part, I dont engage in discussions about the existence or non-existence of God. You cant prove or disprove God, therefore you must make a leap of faith(that's the whole point!!!). You either believe he exists or you don't.

I agree with Pascal that you can never ever fully convince an atheist of God's existence, at best you can prove that belief in God has some merit to it. By contrast, the atheist will never fully convince the believer.

If one chooses to believe in God, it's because they came to that conclusion by themselves, not because you throw the Bible in their face.

As a former atheist, I know from first hand experience how annoying Christians can be when trying to convert others; hence why I dont do it. It's even counter-productive at best.

Especially when you just threaten people with Hell. Ok there's several problems with that: First, atheists dont even believe in Hell, so why bother threatening them with such? It's stupid and pointless.

Second, and more important, thats not even the proper manner in which to bring people to God, as St. Bernard makes clear in his treatise On Loving God (http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/onloving/onloving.html). And it should be remembered that in the end, it's God who makes the final call not you.

Even as an atheist I found it tiresome of how some would go to the ends of the world to try to disprove theists and humiliate them. My attitude basically was, and still is, just leave them alone!

So if you do believe, then God bless you. If you dont, then go in peace, and may God have mercy on your wretched soul! :P ;)

Weiler
Tuesday, March 13th, 2007, 06:24 AM
Excellent points.

I was raised a Christian by my parents, but certainly went through long periods of doubt in my teens and twenties. Later on I regained my faith, though to be certain I still struggle with some things on occasion.

Several years ago, after I re-affirmed my faith, I spent considerable amounts of time debating atheists and agnostics on other internet forums. Eventually I realized it was pointless - you cannot convince a non-believer to believe if they don't want to believe, and I'm sure you also cannot convince a believer to stop believing if they don't want to. At best you can agree to state each other's positions, and where irreconcilable conflicts in views arise, agree to disagree. Beyond that, there's no point.

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, March 13th, 2007, 05:01 PM
Oh so that's where my post went. I thought it was deleted!!! :D

Yes I obviously agree with you Weiler.

It's mostly when non-Christian start attacking my faith that I spring into action. If they simply want to discuss their own faith, then fine, I have nothing against that.

Moody
Wednesday, March 14th, 2007, 03:46 PM
For the most part, I dont engage in discussions about the existence or non-existence of God. You cant prove or disprove God, therefore you must make a leap of faith(that's the whole point!!!). You either believe he exists or you don't.

But then those who profess a belief in God should at least tell us why they profess that belief.
If they don't want to do that, then why do they tell those that are in their ambit they believe in God?
It seems strange to promote something, in this case a belief, without saying why.
Why do you believe?

Of course, we might also ask an Atheist why he believes in Atheism.

Surely anyone who professes something has a reason why.



I agree with Pascal that you can never ever fully convince an atheist of God's existence, at best you can prove that belief in God has some merit to it. By contrast, the atheist will never fully convince the believer.

Many believers in God have become believers in Atheism: belief systems are very malleable in that way.
Once you have the structure in place for a belief then you can fill it with a wide array of content.

Is an Atheist much different to a Christian in that sense?

And what is the "merit" to your belief?

Can you have an unmerited belief?




If one chooses to believe in God, it's because they came to that conclusion by themselves, not because you throw the Bible in their face.

Very few believers in God came to their belief by choice - the majority world-wide were born into their belief system - they inherited it.
Whereas more Atheists have chosen their belief - but as I say, once one is imbued with the belief system structure, then one can usually find another belief to fill it if you wish.



As a former atheist, I know from first hand experience how annoying Christians can be when trying to convert others; hence why I dont do it. It's even counter-productive at best.

But isn't it one of the tenets of Christianity that one spread the Word?



Especially when you just threaten people with Hell. Ok there's several problems with that: First, atheists dont even believe in Hell, so why bother threatening them with such? It's stupid and pointless.

Atheists do believe in Hell. The well known Atheist Sartre certainly did, saying "Hell is other people."





I was raised a Christian by my parents, but certainly went through long periods of doubt in my teens and twenties. Later on I regained my faith, though to be certain I still struggle with some things on occasion.

So is one of the advantages of belief that it prevents you from doubting?
Is that why belief is merited?
Surely the Atheist believes in his Atheism - he doesn't doubt that!



Several years ago, after I re-affirmed my faith, I spent considerable amounts of time debating atheists and agnostics on other internet forums. Eventually I realized it was pointless - you cannot convince a non-believer to believe if they don't want to believe, and I'm sure you also cannot convince a believer to stop believing if they don't want to. At best you can agree to state each other's positions, and where irreconcilable conflicts in views arise, agree to disagree. Beyond that, there's no point.

My point here is that Christians and Atheists are both believers. It is wrong to call an Atheist a "non-believer."



It's mostly when non-Christian start attacking my faith that I spring into action. If they simply want to discuss their own faith, then fine, I have nothing against that.

And Atheism is another Faith?

Reubenels
Thursday, July 14th, 2011, 02:36 PM
For the most part, I dont engage in discussions about the existence or non-existence of God. You cant prove or disprove God, therefore you must make a leap of faith(that's the whole point!!!). You either believe he exists or you don't.

I agree with Pascal that you can never ever fully convince an atheist of God's existence, at best you can prove that belief in God has some merit to it. By contrast, the atheist will never fully convince the believer.

If one chooses to believe in God, it's because they came to that conclusion by themselves, not because you throw the Bible in their face.

As a former atheist, I know from first hand experience how annoying Christians can be when trying to convert others; hence why I dont do it. It's even counter-productive at best.

Especially when you just threaten people with Hell. Ok there's several problems with that: First, atheists dont even believe in Hell, so why bother threatening them with such? It's stupid and pointless.

Second, and more important, thats not even the proper manner in which to bring people to God, as St. Bernard makes clear in his treatise On Loving God (http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/onloving/onloving.html). And it should be remembered that in the end, it's God who makes the final call not you.

Even as an atheist I found it tiresome of how some would go to the ends of the world to try to disprove theists and humiliate them. My attitude basically was, and still is, just leave them alone!

So if you do believe, then God bless you. If you dont, then go in peace, and may God have mercy on your wretched soul! :P ;)

To put all in perspective ,The differance between the words love and hate is that the word hate means TO Love A little bit less,funny or Not, If there is a bad there must be A good, Life is always in balance