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Liberator Germaniae
Sunday, March 4th, 2007, 03:56 PM
Mdladlana: Affirmative-action here to stay

Johannesburg, South Africa

04 March 2007 08:06

Affirmative action policies will never be ruled out in South Africa, the Labour Minister said on Saturday.

"Contrary to Parliamentary calls by opposition Democratic Alliance (DA), affirmative action and current employment equity legislation would never be repealed but would be intensified instead," Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana said.

He was speaking at the annual Ndebele King Silamba commemoration in Pretoria on Saturday.

DA member of Parliament Mark Lowe called for the scrapping of affirmative action during a debate on job creation and globalisation in Parliament this week.

Lowe cited that there was a lack of qualified artisans in the country because of the policy.

He said Mdladlana should announce a complete rethink of legislation regarding employment equity.

The United Party of South Africa, the Freedom Front Plus and the Inkatha Freedom Party leader Mangosuthu Buthelezi also supported the call to scrap the law.

Mdladlana said affirmative action laws were not meant to discriminate against any race group but were aimed at redressing the imbalances of the past.

"Liberation should be accompanied by programmes to improve the quality of life of the poor by totally eradicating the apartheid legacy and empower people with skills for better opportunities."

He said it was incorrect for anyone to suggest that "we only affirm those who voted us into power".

South Africa is the only country that affirms the majority of people, he added.

Reacting to Mdladlana's announcement, FF Plus spokesperson Willie Spies said the minister did not only reaffirm his reputation as one of the "ANC's most hardened racists", but also displayed his disregard to international labour law principles.

"International labour literature is clear that affirmative action is a form of discrimination which can only apply temporarily.

"It is therefore a pity that Mdladlana displays such an indifferent attitude towards a contentious issue such as affirmative action."

Spies said his party would sharpen its campaign in Parliament to broaden the definition of "designated group" in the Employment Equity Act to include all youth born after a certain date.

Trade union Solidarity said Mdladlana should choose between his presidency of the International Labour Organisation (ILO) and his latest pronouncement on affirmative action.

"Mdladlana's stance that affirmative action policies will never be ruled out in South Africa is a direct contravention of the ILO's definition and resolution of affirmative," said spokesperson Dirk Hermann.

The ILO's resolution and definition of affirmative action is that it must be of a temporary nature.

"One can't be president of an organisation and at the same time contravene its resolutions.

"The ILO should admonish Mdladlana on his undemocratic pronouncement," said Hermann. - Sapa



Source (http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=300885&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__business/)

sheriff skullface
Sunday, March 4th, 2007, 04:01 PM
special favoritism laws:thumbdown meant for making people feel "less oppressed" have absoultely no place anywhere, why do people think that we need them so much?

Liberator Germaniae
Sunday, March 4th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Plan debated in parliament

Affirmative action to stay, says Manuel

March 02, 2007 Edition 2

Angela Quintal and Boyd Webb

Finance Minister Trevor Manuel yesterday poured cold water on calls for a change to affirmative action and the country's employment equity law.

His was a view shared by others in the government benches, including ANC MP Monontsi Mzondeki, after a proposal by Western Cape Transport MEC Marius Fransman for a moratorium on employment equity to attract scarce skills, became the flavour of the day among opposition parties in parliament.

During members' statements in the National Assembly, United Party of SA MP Stan Simmons, said there was a growing realisation that affirmative action in its current form did not serve its intended objective of equality in the workforce.

Affirmative action was doing more harm than good, he told MPs.

"The UPSA calls for a complete redesign of affirmative action as it is currently worsening the problem of capacity and polarisation."

A new affirmative action policy should broaden the definition of designated group to include the youth, as well as make clear there was no hierarchy when it came to who was more disadvantaged, and should include a sunset clause.

In his reply, Manuel said: "In respect of the issues raised by the Honourable Simmons, I would like to draw his attention to the Employment Equity Act.

"It is there. In its practice it frequently is very poorly used. It is sadly abused, but it is there and the intent of the Act is abundantly clear."

Manuel was not immediately available for further comment on the issue.

Later, in a debate on job creation and globalisation, DA MP Mark Lowe called for the scrapping of affirmative action.

He said that since democratic rule began in 1994, the average age of South Africa's remaining qualified artisans has steadily risen to an embarrassing 54 years.

"Instead of producing more artisans to meet the growing needs of our rapidly expanding economy, we've simply stopped training them, creating what the Seta system euphemistically calls "Learnerships" instead. Now we have a crippling shortage of engineers and skilled artisans."

Many of those skilled artisans had been driven overseas by affirmative legislation that made it impossible for highly skilled people to find work - even when there were scores of vacancies to be filled - simply because they were the wrong race or skin colour.

"A whole generation of patternmakers, boilermakers, electricians, plumbers, welders and other artisans have taken their skills - acquired at great effort and much cost to the South African taxpayer - and gone elsewhere. That is not something a competitive nation in a global world can afford to do."

Lowe said there was an urgent need to reverse the debilitating skills brain drain - and the proposal by the Fransman, to put affirmative action on hold for three years - to entice white South Africans back to South Africa, must be supported.

"In fact the legislation must be scrapped, not just put on hold," Lowe said.

Lowe said Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana should announce a complete rethink of legislation regarding employment equity.

This should include repealing affirmative action, particularly on scarce skills, and setting out plans to actively recruit engineers and skilled artisans back to their homeland, where they belonged and were so desperately needed.

In reply, Mzondeki accused Lowe of wanting South Africa to forget its past.

Affirmative action had been put in place precisely to deal with those imbalances Lowe wanted to forget, including the poor education system which the DA MP had also referred to in his speech.

Mzondeki rejected Lowe's view that employment equity legislation was to blame for the exodus of talent from South Africa.

"The progressive laws of this country are in no way a reason for the people that decide to leave our country," he said. "And there is no way that, as the African National Congress, we are going to move away from the Employment Equity Act."

In a statement, the Freedom Front Plus described Fransman's statement as an "important milestone" given that it came from an ANC MEC.

"The FF Plus has since 1994 been campaigning for a sunset-clause with regard to affirmative action," MP Willie Spies said.



Source (http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3709028)

Liberator Germaniae
Tuesday, March 6th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Affirmative action 'a new form of apartheid'

Cape Town, South Africa

06 March 2007 05:34

ANC Wants AA as 'New Apartheid': FF+

It is becoming increasingly clear that some in the African National Congress want to ensconce affirmative action as a permanent measure and thus enforce a new form of apartheid, the Freedom Front Plus (FF+) said on Tuesday.

The party intends asking the International Labour Organisation (ILO) to pay urgent attention to its complaint about affirmative action, handed to the ILO's Pretoria office on Youth Day last year, FF+ spokesperson Willie Spies said.

The complaint specifically deals with the fact that affirmative action in South Africa is increasingly being given a permanent nature, and that the position is being worsened through often-repeated populist statements in this regard by Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana.

"Mdladlana has this past weekend once again made the news when he said affirmative action will never be phased out in South Africa, but to the contrary will be sharpened."

Spies said that going by Mdladlana's past statements, it is clear he not only condones black-against-white prejudice, but even encourages it. "The ILO should take note of Mdladlana's reckless actions in this regard."

In terms of Convention 111 of the ILO, discrimination in the name of affirmative action is only justifiable if it is enforced as a temporary measure.

"It is, however, increasingly becoming clear that a school of thought in the ruling party wants to ensconce affirmative action as a permanent measure and through this enforce a new form of apartheid.

"The FF+ will continue its campaign to at least get young South Africans exempted from affirmative action," Spies said.

Support
However, the Black Management Forum said on Tuesday that South Africa is far from reflecting the country's demographics in the workplace and thus the forum supports the retention of affirmative-action policies.

Forum chief executive Mncane Mthunzi said in a statement that the organisation "fully endorses" Mdladlana's position on affirmative action.

"The impoverished, under-educated and under-utilised black majority, both men and women, needs to be provided with the same boots and straps as those provided to whites before they can be expected to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps'," he said.

On Saturday, Mdladlana said South Africa's affirmative-action policies will not be stopped. -- Sapa



Source (http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=301161&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/)

Liberator Germaniae
Monday, March 19th, 2007, 10:58 PM
FF Plus youth to hold referendum against affirmative action at Tukkies

PRETORIA – The Freedom Front Plus Youth will conduct a referendum on Affirmative Action (AA) at the gates of the University of Pretoria on Tuesday, an FF plus spokesman said.

This comes after 4000 members of the FF Plus handed over an “Equality for All” petition protesting against quotas and Affirmative Action in university admissions to President Thabo Mbeki’s office on Monday.

“Thousands of highly qualified Afrikaners as well as Afrikaner youths leave the country to seek job opportunities in other countries.

“We cannot afford that so much knowledge and talent leave the country merely because all citizens do not receive the same treatment when it comes to employment and service delivery,” FF Plus youth leader Cornelius Jansen van Rensburg said.

He acknowledged that problems of the past needed to be addressed, but stressed that the Afrikaner youth had no part in what happened in the past.

“All citizens deserve the same opportunities and the Afrikaner Youth, especially, cannot be disadvantaged due to the imbalances of the past,” Jansen van Rensburg said. –Sapa

Last updated
19/03/2007 19:43:29


Source (http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=34672,1,22)

Elenor
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 08:38 AM
Affirmative action could be seen positives and negatives, In the case of African American one could see affirmative action is necessary due to the slavery and racist discrimination between the white and black,however the new generation of African American ( black african american student on the discovery channel) do not see affirmative action is necessary because of the current American policy, everyone is equal to law, but if this policy is widely accepted there could be a problem among those who are retarded or especially handicapped who to continue their studies in the University since this special category needs to compete with the another so called '' student''

Affirmative action is included in the United Nation Chater, for the special needs.And affrimative action is widely praticed in Sweden and Iceland.

Siegfried
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 08:55 AM
University admissions should be based on knowledge and skills, not on one's pocket book or race. Anything else will degrade the value of university degrees. Affirmative Action also reflects poorly on the degrees of minority students who did get by on their own ability, rather than on 'pity policy'.

Patrioten
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 01:55 PM
Affirmative action could be seen positives and negatives, In the case of African American one could see affirmative action is necessary due to the slavery and racist discrimination between the white and black,however the new generation of African American ( black african american student on the discovery channel) do not see affirmative action is necessary because of the current American policy, everyone is equal to law, but if this policy is widely accepted there could be a problem among those who are retarded or especially handicapped who to continue their studies in the University since this special category needs to compete with the another so called '' student''

Affirmative action is included in the United Nation Chater, for the special needs.And affrimative action is widely praticed in Sweden and Iceland.Well first of all affirmative action based on race wouldn't be a problem in the kind of society i want but i have to respond to this. Why on earth would you be in favor of affirmative action of any kind? Affirmative action means that someone gets a position in society that they haven't earned, that they do not deserve, someone who is more apt will have to step aside for some mediocre individual whose only qualification is his "unprivilegied" position in society. Success in a society should be based on competence and one's own ability. There is a place for every decent hard working individual in a society, but not everyone's place is at the top of the pyramid, not everyone is meant for higher education, not everyone is meant for positions of power.

To allow negroes and other ethnics, handicapped people, homosexuals and whatmore to get ahead in life because of some silly ideas of unfairness and equality is unnatural, it is wrongful, it is potentially dangerous and not the kind of society i want to live in.

Elenor
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 03:21 PM
Well first of all affirmative action based on race wouldn't be a problem in the kind of society i want but i have to respond to this. Why on earth would you be in favor of affirmative action of any kind? Affirmative action means that someone gets a position in society that they haven't earned, that they do not deserve, someone who is more apt will have to step aside for some mediocre individual whose only qualification is his "unprivilegied" position in society. Success in a society should be based on competence and one's own ability. There is a place for every decent hard working individual in a society, but not everyone's place is at the top of the pyramid, not everyone is meant for higher education, not everyone is meant for positions of power.



Tell me if you're deaf, blind, handicapped, and you're white. Do you think that you should compete with the normal student who not as above? Even in sports you compete with same group. On the other hand if you're blind does not mean you're less smart, or if you're have neurological problems and you can't write like normal student does not mean you're less smart, however those you have everything perfect doesn't need a system only those who need it. I think if you diablities you compete within the same group not because you're minority but because of you diablities. By the way the disable people could run as much as you so but not the same speed as you. Is it fair that you compete to a person that is not equally as speed as you ?


To allow negroes and other ethnics, handicapped people, homosexuals and whatmore to get ahead in life because of some silly ideas of unfairness and equality is unnatural, it is wrongful, it is potentially dangerous and not the kind of society i want to live in.

By the way I do not think just because you're minority the Swedish unversity open their gates, you should know how it works, you need competent even if you're minoritries. I do not think home sexual, get into universities because of their gender, where did you come up with that? In Swedish RF?
Funny I never heard of such law is it new ?

Patrioten
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 03:54 PM
Tell me if you're deaf, blind, handicapped, and you're white. Do you think that you should compete with the normal student who not as above? Even in sports you compete with same group. On the other hand if you're blind does not mean you're less smart, or if you're have neurological problems and you can't write like normal student does not mean you're less smart, however those you have everything perfect doesn't need a system only those who need it. I think if you diablities you compete within the same group not because you're minority but because of you diablities. By the way the disable people could run as much as you so but not the same speed as you. Is it fair that you compete to a person that is not equally as speed as you ?
Your line of thought is hard to understand unfortunately but if i mistake what you have written then point it out. The simple answer to your question is, they can't. Is it fair? It's a fact of life. I'm all for helping some students with special needs with their educational situation, but i will never accept a scenario where they get ahead because of their inability. Instead i would like to see that students who do show exceptional abilities in terms of learning, knowledge, intelligence and so forth were given extra resources (just as those with special needs are given, but for other reasons), because they are of great value to the community and society at large. But they would of course have to work for it and compete for places in education and jobs like everyone else.




By the way I do not think just because you're minority the Swedish unversity open their gates, you should know how it works, you need competent even if you're minoritries.I do not think home sexual, get into universities because of their gender, where did you come up with that? In Swedish RF?
Funny I never heard of such law is it new ?I did not make a case about universities but affirmative action as a concept, and this does not only effect education but also jobs, military service, the police, just to take as some examples. Affirmative action means in practise for example that quotas are used with individuals who fulfil certain criterias. It can mean that individuals are picked because of these criterias that have nothing to do with ability or competence, on the contrary they pick them because they have a disadvantage compared to the general population. Just because we don't have the exact type of affirmative action that you take as an example today in Sweden, doesn't mean that it cannot be introduced in the future. I'm against such a development, i am against the entire concept of affirmative action.

Liberator Germaniae
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 04:45 PM
De Lille lets fly at ANC's 'jobs-for-pals' policy

Donwald Pressly | Cape Town, South Africa

20 March 2007 01:07

The articulation of the affirmative-action programme in South Africa as a "jobs-for-pals" scheme by the ruling African National Congress is doing "immeasurable damage" to the South African economy, Independent Democrats (ID) leader Patricia de Lille has argued.

She was responding to former University of Cape Town vice-chancellor and former World Bank director Mamphela Ramphele's comments that mistakes were being made in the implementation of employment equity in the country.

De Lille said her party's position was that "we support affirmative action ... but we have a fundamental problem with the way the ANC has implemented the policy".

It had simply replaced white faces with black faces, she said.

"The jobs-for-pals programme of the ANC, where party cronies are rewarded for political allegiance, has also done immeasurable damage as we continue to grapple with the apartheid legacy of blacks being excluded from the economy," said De Lille, who leads a team of five in the National Assembly.

"Simply put, the [official opposition] Democratic Alliance is against transformation. The Independent Democrats stands for transformation, with excellence.

"Nearly 13 years after our country's first democratic elections, the reality is that the top management in most companies is still [made up of] white males. Just as worrying is the trend in companies to window dress, but without transferring skills to black managers.

"What then happens is that white consultants are brought in, thereby circumventing the objectives of true transformation. This is also a reality in our government departments across all levels."

The gaping hole between the school curriculum and what was required in a globally challenging work environment continues to grow in South Africa. "There are a growing amount of our young people who have degree qualifications but are not suited to the job market and industries required in terms of the global economy. This must be addressed urgently."

De Lille said: "The ID agrees with Dr Ramphele that South Africans need to position themselves to harness the rapid movement of ideas, innovation, people, goods, services and financial resources across borders driven by revolutionary changes in information and communication technologies.

"The ID wishes to remind the ANC government that affirmative action was never about handing out a job to an incompetent person, simply on the basis of their skin colour. This jobs-for-pals programme is severely undermining our ability to recruit and retain the best from all race groups in this country." - I-Net Bridge



Source (http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=302527&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/)

CaptainHook
Tuesday, March 20th, 2007, 11:49 PM
Affirmative action is a hypocritical program that tries to promote equality with inequality and should be removed and I don't care what Rev. Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton say about it.

Siegfried
Wednesday, March 21st, 2007, 09:20 AM
Affirmative action is included in the United Nation Chater, for the special needs.

UN 'Affirmative Action' is really a policy of making sure all the globe's macroregions are more or less equally represented in the organisation. This is why after two African Secretary-Generals, the position went to Asia. Though this may be defended as being necessary to ensure the UN is truly a representation of humanity as a whole, virtually everyone familiar with the UN will confirm this policy also hampers the efficiency of the organisation; geographical origin trumps ability.