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Airmanareiks
Wednesday, January 3rd, 2007, 01:02 AM
Aryan philosophy and metaphysics = Upanishads, Ancent Greek, proto Aryan.

IMO, Plato just stated ancient aryan philsophy.

The Republic based on ancien Aryan society of caste with his view of castes of Gold, Silver, Bronze based on intinsic chararacter which is the same as Rigsthula of castes based on color which is the aryan tri partite of black, red, white (see dumezil). Stoicism goes back to Heraclitus logos and fire. Platos supersensory world of ideas is similar to At=man and Bra - man which is simialar to Norse God and Godi. You can trace the origins of Great philosophers to the Ur religion /tradition of the Aryan tribe. The value of speculation, thought. You do not see it with Jews, no metaphysics, The bible is history. Jesusism does not value metaphysics or philosophy. IMO, there was an ancient aryan philsopher/priest caste who created religion/languages/higher systems of thought who vestiages are in Taoism, science, ancient philosophy and give to the masses in myth form as allogories so they could understand the meta physics.

Aupmanyav
Wednesday, January 3rd, 2007, 03:43 PM
Airmanareiks, your Aryan is imagination, our Aryan is a fact. We still worship those Gods, we still chant the same mantras, with the same sound, follow the same ceremonies (yajnas). This is not meant to be derogatory to you (Europeans) who lost the traditions to the semitic God, after all, you are our brothers, however distant you may be.

No society remains unchanged over milennias. Even if Aryans had not met Hindus, then also they would have changed. Actually this association was instrumental in saving their knowledge and culture, which survives nowhere else. Therefore, do not look at Upanishads as second grade, but as a natural development of Vedic philosophy.

Airmanareiks
Wednesday, January 3rd, 2007, 09:15 PM
Aupmanyau, If you are not racial aryan, you are not aryan and your ancestors are not aryan. Aryans are white. It says in the Rig Veda. If you are colored or dark, in the Rig Veda, you are not in the religion of Arja Dharma, but a foreigner who took over my ancestors religion. I doubt your ancestors religion is Arya Dharma.

What Gods do you worship?

Aupmanyav
Thursday, January 4th, 2007, 02:07 PM
I am a Kashmiri brahmin, fair colored, blue eyed; worship the Aryan and Hindu Gods; invoke Indra, Surya, Agni, Varun, Brihaspati, in religious ceremonies; my geneology (Gotra) is from the 'earlier' Sage Upamanyu (Bhoot Upamanyu), and I like to think that he is the one whose hymn to Soma is included in the RigVeda (though I am not sure about that, there might have been many Upamanyus, that is why the earlier and later). I do not think that one could have better credentials.

For that reason, I am Aupmanyav (of the house of Upamanyu). Philosophically, I believe in a non-satient universal substrate, Brahman.

Airmanareiks
Sunday, January 7th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Cool.

What do you think about

Brahman - Dyaus Pitar (God Father)

Atman - Brahmins - Aryaman - Manu (Law of Manu)

and

God, Goden, Odin, Zio pater, Zeus

Godi, Ariomanus, Manus


I reconstructed the proto aryan religion you might call it proto vedic in that, IMO, Odinism is prior to Vedism. You can see this in the first man, Ymir vs Purusha. Ymir is divided into elements or the world whereas Purusha is divided into castes. The Rig Edda and Law of Manus are the Germanic equivalents to the Rig Veda and Law of Manu, but improved.

Aupmanyav
Monday, January 8th, 2007, 11:11 AM
We still worship Dyava Pitra and Dyava Prithvi, Aryaman.

Randomly selected from Ralph Griffith's translation of RigVeda

Book 1, HYMN CLIX. Heaven and Earth.

1. I PRAISE with sacrifices mighty Heaven and Earth at festivals, the wise, the Strengtheners of Law. Who, having Gods for progeny, conjoined with Gods, through wonder-working wisdom bring forth choicest boons.
2 With invocations, on the gracious Father's mind, and on the Mother's great inherent power I muse. Prolific Parents, they have made the world of life, and for their brood all round wide immortality.
3 These Sons of yours well skilled in work, of wondrous power, brought forth to life the two great Mothers first of all. To keep the truth of all that stands and all that moves, you guard the station of your Son who knows no guile.
4 They with surpassing skill, most wise, have measured out the Twins united in their birth and in their home. They, the refulgent Sages, weave within the sky, yes, in the depths of sea, a web for ever new.
5 This is to-day the goodliest gift of Savitar: this thought we have when now the God is furthering us. On us with loving-kindness Heaven and Earth bestow riches and various wealth and treasure hundredfold!
(http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01159.htm)

We know that you have different names for the same Gods, since at one time we were not separate.

Airmanareiks
Monday, January 8th, 2007, 09:13 PM
I have taken extant Aryan hymns and made a new Norse version, what I view as PIE, but in a Norse culture. I view it as a best of Rig Veda. See what you recognize when you download the Rig Edda, the Gods will be Germanic gods, but as you said, they are the same gods under different names as ancient historians have noted, including Tacitus. You may view orlog/irmunsul, or the world tree as Agni which is fire or logos in a Heraclitian sense. I have updated the religious paradigm into modern philosophic/scientific terms.

May Aryanism never perish and ever persist as the one true religion and the Aryans as the one true Godthjod!


Aupamanev. I get the feeling you lied and are non nordic or white and are offended by ancient Aryan religion. I should not have given it to you. But I trusted your word.

[Note: You should view it in Wordpad. It will be in a Rune font. If you click Select All and then change the font, you will be able to read it.]

Oswiu
Thursday, January 11th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Aupamanev. I get the feeling you lied and are non nordic or white and are offended by ancient Aryan religion. I should not have given it to you. But I trusted your word.
He did nothing of the sort. You however made a very foolish assumption.

I suggest you read Aupmanyav's details to the left of his post. :|

Airmanareiks
Friday, January 12th, 2007, 12:26 AM
I read he was Kashmiri/Aryan. What does that mean?
You have to take a man at his word that aryan IS aryan!!



I am a Kashmiri brahmin, fair colored, blue eyed; worship the Aryan and Hindu Gods;


He apparently is offended by the Rig Edda which contains much of the Rig Veda. First, he states that he is aryan and I am somehow not, or lesser then him["with all due respect"] because I am not from India and he is. But, aryans are white, which he admits in that he believes that aryans came from the far north, not indigenous and dark from India which many Indian nationalists believe. Fair colored and blue eyed is prodominately nordic. Common sense says there are little or no nordics now in India, but half breeds or less, like Mexico is composed of Spanish and Native American mixes. Its like a Mexican stating that he is spanish. Lets say Spain was converted to Jesusism and destroyed indigenous aryan religion in Span, but in Mexico aryan religion survived in which Mexicans continued to believe, but the original Spanish conquistadors interbreed and no Ur spanish exist in Mexico. So a Mexican states he is Spanish and the Spaniard in Spain, taking the extant aryan religion in mexico and modifying it back to Spanish, is inferior to the Mexican.


I am taking back what belongs to Aryans.

If non white Hindus think that the Vedas and Law of Manu are theirs, they are sadly mistaken. It is good that current Hindus DO NOT believe in Aryan gods. But unfortunately, some think they are superior do to their religion which they inhereted but is not theirs (Vedas and Law of Manu).

SuuT
Friday, January 12th, 2007, 12:34 AM
Aupamanev. I get the feeling you lied and are non nordic or white and are offended by ancient Aryan religion. I should not have given it to you. But I trusted your word.

Are you refering to the fiction to which you adhere?
I would also like to know how one can be an ethnic Tervingian some 1,600 years after the fact.

Aupmanyav
Friday, January 12th, 2007, 05:48 AM
Aupamanev. I get the feeling you lied and are non nordic or white and are offended by ancient Aryan religion. I should not have given it to you. But I trusted your word.Airmanareiks, that is a big accusation (You lie) and not gentlemanly. My upbringing and religion tell me to not to get offended by what you say ignorantly. Even your sentence is not correct (but then you might not be a native speaker of English). I am atleast an 80 generation Indian. My forefathers must have come to India before Buddha was born (that is considering that Aryans were not indigenous to India, many people believe the opposite). Only the Christian, Muslim, and even Hindu exclusivity offends me. And BTW, what have you given to me? Do I need anything?

Rig Edda does not offend me in any way. On the contrary it fascinates me, I have read a penguin book on it. It may be your heritage. RigVeda is my heritage. Neither I am of pure Aryan stock nor you may be. In the intervening thousands of years it is quite natural that may have been admixtures from other people. We were ensconed in a small valley, so the chances are less; and as far as my know, marriages in my family have always been in other Kashmiri families. But admixtures can come from the maternal side also, and nobody can make a claim. Even on the paternal side, I cannot be sure because, one of my forefathers may have married a woman of non-Aryan descent, the children would still be known as coming from the Aryan stock. I do not deride other people, not even africans or australian aboriginals. After all everybody is an aboriginal of some place, even Aryans were. A large percentage of Kashmiris are fair coloured and blue/grey eyed, I am no exception. Of course, after migrating to other parts of India, the skin-colour of our children has taken a dive. Even if I am an Indian, there is something like academic honesty. What should I believe if I find 1. Vedas mention seven-month sunlight, 2. Vedas mention a long night of up to 100 days, 3. Vedas mention a month-long dawn, and 4. Vedas mention priests who complete their sacrificial year in nine or ten months. It has yet not been proved conclusively that Aryans were nordic.

You are again wrong in assuming that hindus do not worship the Aryan Gods, we still make obescience to Varun, Mitra, Agni, Indra, and Brihaspati. These were the Gods that came to us and not Odin.

Arrian
Friday, January 12th, 2007, 09:37 AM
I am taking back what belongs to Aryans.

If non white Hindus think that the Vedas and Law of Manu are theirs, they are sadly mistaken. It is good that current Hindus DO NOT believe in Aryan gods. But unfortunately, some think they are superior do to their religion which they inhereted but is not theirs (Vedas and Law of Manu).

I have to say that whole thing said couldn't be more un-Aryan!

Imagine wanting to take back an ocean and a whole empire seeded by them over millions of years and the glory of their gift-giving expansion.

Aupmanyav
Friday, January 12th, 2007, 11:18 AM
A small correction, 'over thousands of years'. Yes, I believe Aryans were not at all war like and of nice mixing type of people. Read their prayers, happiness to the whole world, to all people, to all animals, to all vegetation, to all waters, no sorrow for anyone, no disease for anyone, more knowledge to everyone, no discord in discussions, and thrice peace, to you, to me, and to every other. Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.

'Sarveshaam swastir bhavatu, Sarveshaam shantir bhavatu;
Sarveshaam poornam bhavatu, Sarveshaam mangalam bhavatu.
Sarve bhavantu sukhinah, Sarve santu niraamayaah;
Sarve bhadraani pashyantu, Maakaschit duhkha bhaag bhavet.
Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.'

'Saha naavavatu sahanau bhunaktu, Saha veeryam karavaavahai;
Tejasvi naavadheetamastu, maa vidvishaavahai.
Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.'

'Dyavuh shantih Antariksham shantih, Prithivee shantih Aapah shantih;
Oshadhayah shantih Vanaspatayah shantih, Vishvedevah shantih Brahma shantih;
Sarvam shantih Shantireva shantih, Saama shantiredhih;
Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.'

'Asato maa sadgamaya, Tamaso maa jyotir gamaya, Mrityor maa amritam gamaya.'

That is all they were asking for. How could hindus not like that?

Airmanareiks
Saturday, January 13th, 2007, 10:16 PM
Are you refering to the fiction to which you adhere?
I would also like to know how one can be an ethnic Tervingian 1, 600 years after the fact?

Strong words. What fiction do I adhere to?

SERIOUSLY STRONG WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!


My religion? If it is false proof it.
What religion do you adhere to?

We will see whose religion or belief system is fiction.


Are you refering to my "fictituous" Tribe?

Well I live in the West. What are west Aryans or Germans?

Visi - Goths
West - Goths

The Goths are one of the earliest Germanic tribes which we know anything about. Being I am interested in constructing a proto Germanic religion, naturally, the earlier I look the better.

The Tervingian are the noble royal family of Goths.
The other tribe is the Amalians.

I am racially nordic. So what tribe do I belong to?
What I deem is the oldest and noblest West Germanic tribe with are the Tervingians, among whom came some of the few great Aryans of history, including Athanaric.

Are you saying the Rig Edda and Law of Manus is fiction?
Well, the enemies of my race and religion destroyed the religion. So I have to reconstruct it. Whose fault is that?

The great part is, I have less falsehoods to overcome!!!!!!!!
And more freedom to create the definative:

Aryan Religion


I have to say that whole thing said couldn't be more un-Aryan!

Imagine wanting to take back an ocean and a whole empire seeded by them over millions of years and the glory of their gift-giving expansion.

I am not sure what you mean.

Its a racial religion and belongs to that race, not for those who took over the religion and political territory.

What is Un Aryan?

A religion is part of a races mind. Or part of a races Collective Unconscious. The structure of the mind, that shapes how we think. Genetics. Thus, Hinuism is largely Christian in that it is hard to distinguish a Hare Krishna and a Jesuit priest. They both believe in Universal Love, pacificism, which is not Aryan religion.

The Rig Veda is closer then some of the Eddas (prose) in showing aryan religion. The Rig Veda and Law of Manu, as Nietizche would back me up, is pure war and race hatred. Segregation, purity of body and mind. They interbreed with the Dasysus and Sudras and are extinct in India now. Which shows you what happens when you cease to follow Aryan religious law. The Rig Veda and Law of Manus are Nordic religious texts not non whites (hindus) who may claim that it is theirs. Remember, no major Hindu sect adheres to Only the Rig Veda and Law of Manu. Why? Because in the Rig Veda, there are hymns that call on the Gods, Indra, to kill the dark races who take their crops.




Rig Edda does not offend me in any way. On the contrary it fascinates me, I have read a penguin book on it. .

Those are the poetic and prose edda.

I reconstructed the Rig Edda which is the Ur Aryan religion which started from Rig VEDA hymns and I moved on from there which is why I asked you to read it and to see what you recognized. I have not published it nor am I planning on to. As it states in the Law of Manus, God(the Aryan ones) want you to only give it to those who will not destroy the aryan religion. Obviously, the Rig Veda has been destroyed for all realistic purposes, no Hindu solely worships aryan gods or the Rig Veda. What Hindus are divided on is wheither the Vedas are valid or the foundation of their religion. Some sects, I believe, not not even give much esteem to the Vedas. The point was, the ancient aryans were only supposed to teach those who would not destroy the Vedas. Aryans, Nordics. Those that would not change the law (law of manu) Strict segregation between nordics and non nordics, and no race mixing. Obviously, almost all of the original aryans did not adhere to Arya Dharma, or maybe more likely, very few were intiated. And thus, Arya Dharma, along with aryans in India are dead. My concern when Aupamnev acted as if he was superior to me as a Aryan priest because he lived in India. Racially and religiously..... I try to be as aryan as possible and I doubt there are many who are better.

So what do you recognize from the Rig Edda?


A small correction, 'over thousands of years'. Yes, I believe Aryans were not at all war like and of nice mixing type of people. Read their prayers, happiness to the whole world, to all people, to all animals, to all vegetation, to all waters, no sorrow for anyone, no disease for anyone, more knowledge to everyone, no discord in discussions, and thrice peace, to you, to me, and to every other. Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.

That is all they were asking for. How could hindus not like that?

This is the typical Jesuit crap you get in India. They claim the Vedas, Law of Manu is theirs, Non aryans, and aryans are not white and that aryans came from India. I now tha Aupamenuv states contrary, but "Happiness to the whole world" sounds like a Hare Krisna or Jesus lover. This is not Arya Dharma and Arya Dharma, is not Indias or non Nordics.

This is from the Rig Veda:


i invoke thunar, the killer, the will of zio, accept our blot. slayer of jotuns, jou protect aryans. wielder of mjolner, you destroy the cities of the wicked. thunar, causing the barley to be sown in the fields, milking the clouds for the sake of the arja, destoying the offspring of the jotuns with his hamar. jou have given bright light to his white friends. thunarereidr, takes waters from th passing clouds in a torrent, has subdued the cities of jotuns with mjoner. he mutilated, the black apes who lie prostrate on erd, jou tore off the black skin of the invader.

Translate Thunar as Indra and Jotuns as Dasyus (non aryan tribe) is verbatum.

"How could non Aryan hindus not like that ?"
as you said.

How can you say the Rig Edda is fiction when it is taken verbatium from REAL aryan religious texts (such as the Rig Veda verse above)?

Want me to post some quotes from the law of manus to see if they preach "Happiness for All" and Race and Caste "nice mixing type".

Aupamanev, You are not Aryan at all. If you are truely Nordic, you may be racely aryan, but hardly religiously an Aryan, and you are from India!!
Universal Happiness and Mixing of the castes. In the Aryan Law of Manu, when the castes mix is when war is call for. It is rita, because Dharma is broken. This is the Kali Yuga, or the Wolf Age and Aryan Religious Law and Society is destroyed. Please do not distort Aryan religion. That is the true crime against my aryan ancestors.

Whose religion is that?

Its a racial religion and belongs to the race who created it.

SuuT
Saturday, January 13th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Strong words. What fiction do I adhere to?

SERIOUSLY STRONG WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!


My religion? If it is false proof it.
What religion do you adhere to?

We will see whose religion or belief system is fiction.


Are you refering to my "fictituous" Tribe?

Well I live in the West. What are west Aryans or Germans?

Visi - Goths
West - Goths

The Goths are one of the earliest Germanic tribes which we know anything about. Being I am interested in constructing a proto Germanic religion, naturally, the earlier I look the better.

The Tervingian are the noble royal family of Goths.
The other tribe is the Amalians.

I am racially nordic. So what tribe do I belong to?
What I deem is the oldest and noblest West Germanic tribe with are the Tervingians, among whom came some of the few great Aryans of history, including Athanaric.

Are you saying the Rig Edda and Law of Manus is fiction?
Well, the enemies of my race and religion destroyed the religion. So I have to reconstruct it. Whose fault is that?

The great part is, I have less falsehoods to overcome!!!!!!!!
And more freedom to create the definative:

Aryan Religion

Well, your very hard to understand when the schizophrenia is at full thrust, and you are undeserving, really, as you have thus far only indicriminately attacked everyone you try to engage like a rabid dog. But, I'll do my best to respond to you - probably for the last time.

You acknowledge your own fiction as a fiction in so far as fiction is invented, or imagined, an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation, an interpretation formed by piecing together bits of evidence; thus, a re-construction.

You go so far as to say you are "interested in 'constructing' a proto Germanic religion". Any such religion would be invented, and therefore made-up, by definition.

I , and no one here, needs a History lesson from you: you are exceedingly rude - if you want to believe you are descended from the line of Athanareiks, knock yourself out; however, you should be aware that no such pedigree of this line exists. In short, what you "deem" to be your Tribe, in so far as a Tribe is an aggregate of people united by ties of descent from a common ancestor, community of customs and traditions, adherence to the same leaders, etc., does not exist, let alone can it be Tervingian, as this group has not been in existence for a millenium and a half. Ergo, you're either loopy, or a liar.

Airmanareiks
Sunday, January 14th, 2007, 01:05 AM
You acknowledge your own fiction as a fiction in so far as fiction is invented, or imagined, an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation, an interpretation formed by piecing together bits of evidence; thus, a re-construction.

You go so far as to say you are "interested in 'constructing' a proto Germanic religion". Any such religion would be invented, and therefore made-up, by definition.

I , and no one here, needs a History lesson from you: you are exceedingly rude - if you want to believe you are descended from the line of Athanareiks, knock yourself out; however, you should be aware that no such pedigree of this line exists. In short, what you "deem" to be your Tribe, in so far as a Tribe is an aggregate of people united by ties of descent from a common ancestor, community of customs and traditions, adherence to the same leaders, etc., does not exist, let alone can it be Tervingian, as this group has not been in existence for a millenium and a half. Ergo, your either loopy, or a liar.

Rude?

You called me "loopy or a liar". For identifying myself as Tervingian. I do not even want to say it. I wish I could call you wise or a person who I can learn from. But what I see from you is a personal attack with no substance behind it. You do not want anyone to reconstruct your ancestors religion. I understand you now and I do not see much use of you, personally.

So what religion are you. Or what is your view on Aryan religion?

Give me something or do not respond to my thread.

I never said I was descended from Athanareiks. I stated I was Nordic racially and I could belong to any Nordic tribe and I choose Tervingian because it was the most ancient and noble. Do not cofuse my words.

Arrogant. Not rude. You hate my arrogance or superiority.



Constructed is not false. That is your assumption. All religion is made up according to your definition for it is a mental costruct. Invention. Do you mean non Aryan or not from an authentic aryan text. You are mistaken. Thus, it is a authentic construction. All religion is a construction as this sentence is a construction of words and words are a construction of letters which are all an emanation of ideas. What are Aryan religious ideas (religion)? Do you know? If you are interested in it.

Aupmanyav
Sunday, January 14th, 2007, 01:25 AM
Law of Mannus.rtf (15.6 KB, 0 views)If you are taking from my book, at least say thanks. Indian Aryans would not have liked to give their books to people who are not intellectually ready for them. Now we have no control over it with print and internet dispersion of information. Good Bye and may the mighty Indra give you knowledge and understanding.

Arrian
Sunday, January 14th, 2007, 08:29 PM
I am not sure what you mean.
Its a racial religion and belongs to that race, not for those who took over the religion and political territory.

I agree its a racial religion and unique to the Indo-Aryans. The RV breathes expansion and the spirit of expansion in every breath of its hymn; the caste system and the Manu were formulated not to turn isolationist but to better organise this expansion, and the acculturating effect of moulding all those happened in the way. I recall many lines in the RV of Aryans praying to their pantheon-Gods to destroy their enemies should they even be their own kin, and the sacrificial order was the common covenant under which they welcomed all kindred, and those who opposed this were called enemies, barabarics, etc.

I don't think one needs dogmas to say this religion cannot belong to so and so people; if they have corrupted the true spirit of the Northern faith, the religion does not belong to them in any case. In fact, by their very corruption, they separate and distinguish themselves out as being un-Aryan, while I believe there are Aryan-Hindus who have not, and therefore true to its faith, ideal, and principle.


What is Un Aryan?

The non-affirmative stance you are taking.


A religion is part of a races mind. Or part of a races Collective Unconscious. The structure of the mind, that shapes how we think. Genetics.

Yes, exactly. So not all Hindus who affirmed the Vedic religion corrupted it. The Aryan spirit continues to live in them.


Thus, Hinuism is largely Christian in that it is hard to distinguish a Hare Krishna and a Jesuit priest. They both believe in Universal Love, pacificism, which is not Aryan religion.

Very true, but lately I've been recognising that as a mere exoteric shell, under secular pressures. The Christian missionary hold and forcible mass-conversions have been a common feature since atleast the eighth century.

Evola's book, The Doctrine of Awakening shows an Aryanised Hinduism.


The Rig Veda is closer then some of the Eddas (prose) in showing aryan religion. The Rig Veda and Law of Manu, as Nietizche would back me up, is pure war and race hatred.

I agree and disagree.

The race-hatred exhibited here, I wouldn't put that on par with the kind of Semitic hatred expressed in the testaments or the quran against those of alien faith. The RV hatred lacks ressentiment. It was not a religion that sprang from/for purely hating anybody.


Segregation, purity of body and mind. They interbreed with the Dasysus and Sudras and are extinct in India now.

I don't believe this; I believe in atavism.


Which shows you what happens when you cease to follow Aryan religious law.

Rosenberg too believed pure Aryanism declined in India. Before we immediately think of why did it weaken?, since we are Nietzscheans, we might also pause on his remark in will to power, 40:

"Waste, decay, elimination need not be condemned: they are necessary consequences of life, of the growth of life. The phenomenon of decadence is as necessary as any increase and advance of life: one is in no position to abolish it. Reason demands, on the contrary, that we do justice to it.

It is a disgrace for all socialist systematizers that they suppose there could be circumstances - social combinations - in which vice, disease, prostitution, distress would no longer grow. - But that means condemning life. - A society is not free to remain young. And even at the height of its strength it has to form refuse and waste materials. The more energetically and boldly it advances, the richer will it be in failures and deformities, the closer to decline.- Age is not abolished by means of institutions. Neither is disease. Nor vice."

So I am not saying that you should let things decline and continue to go corrupt, but rather than starting from the premise of a taking-it-back morality, I'd rather that you would say, you wish to re-invigorate it, gift it a second youth!

And just because even Rome declined, interbreeding with many, doesn't mean our arian tradition 'should not belong' to our contemporary brothers, many of whom act in un-Aryan ways.


The Rig Veda and Law of Manus are Nordic religious texts not non whites (hindus) who may claim that it is theirs.

I think the two are unique to the Indo-Aryans; meaning, I would hate for the rune-songs of Odin to be mouthed by their Varuna. Words are won with heat as both the RV and our edda says, and I think its simply irreverent to rob each kind of Aryan their rightful due. Varuna's wisdom should be allowed to be mouthed by Varuna, and Odin's wisdom should be spoken in Odin's name.


Remember, no major Hindu sect adheres to Only the Rig Veda and Law of Manu. Why?

One reason is because the Rig Veda stands advanced, expanded and transformed, not necessarily lost or faded.


Because in the Rig Veda, there are hymns that call on the Gods, Indra, to kill the dark races who take their crops.

This is very true for a sect of people called the Dalits under the leadership of a pseudo-Buddhist called Ambedkar whose webpages clearly are filled with hatred against Aryan hegemony of any form.

Carl
Monday, January 15th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Arrian - that is an interesting post!

What belongs to Aryan Metaphysics? where should one start ? What is Aryan? what is the limit of metaphysics - indeed, has it itself already died?

Unless there is good evidence for the "aryan" of India coming to the west , then we should think of them as belongng to that part of the world --- to the east and to the south. Whoever said such people came westward? The Indo-Iranian 'Aryan' moved into the south. Other peoples moved into the west. The Persian scripture and the Rig Veda Samhita and the other (three) Vedas belong there - they are the Holy books of the East - not of the West....if there are similarities at all with the Eddas of the NorthWest, we can only wonder why this might be. We cannot bring them by force together without sowing great confusion in faithful minds ... yet if there are ancient roots in the east, perhaps there are also echoes to be heard.

Moody
Monday, January 15th, 2007, 04:59 PM
What belongs to Aryan Metaphysics? where should one start ? What is Aryan? what is the limit of metaphysics - indeed, has it itself already died? Unless there is good evidence for the "aryan" of India coming to the west , then we should think of them as belongng to that part of the world --- to the east and to the south. Whoever said such people came westward? The Indo-Iranian 'Aryan' moved into the south. Other peoples moved into the west. The Persian scripture and the Rig Veda Samhita and the other (three) Vedas belong there - they are the Holy books of the East - not of the West....if there are similarities at all with the Eddas of the NorthWest, we can only wonder why this might be. We cannot bring them by force together without sowing great confusion in faithful minds ... yet if there are ancient roots in the east, perhaps there are also echoes to be heard.

I see metaphysics [the philosophy of the Hellenics, and the Germanics] as being a continuation of the Aryan arc; it is an arc of thought-things.

Metaphysics both marks the limits of the human and transcends those limits.

Even our gods have need of metaphysics, albeit of a more exalted kind

As Elsa-Brita Titchenell shows, the Eddaic certainly has links with the Vedaic;
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupid?key=olbp30145
Masks of Odin on line

Links in the Blood, links in the Mind, and links in the Spirit.

The 'Aryan' is this particular web, spun on the tree that we call 'world'.

Someone today will have links with ancient tribes who have supposedly gone 'extinct' via metempyschosis.
If we are right about the 'Race-Soul', then we are each of us, a reincarnation of past Aryans and Germanics [just as future Aryans and Germanics are reincarnations of we] - this right across unthinkable aeons of 'time' [and what is 'time' to us!].

In philosophy, "confusion" and [i]aporia are vital, so do not try to evade such things.
We only begin to think when we are beset by them, just as Order came out of Chaos or Gunningagap.

What 'holy books' do we have which are idigenous to the West [that can compare with those of the East]?

We have the Eddas [which being so recent and being so filtered through Christianity] at least, which tell us that the Runes are indigenous to the Germanics [Odin's Rune Song].
But we also have the works of the Metaphysicians - the Pre-Platonics, Plato, the Neo-Platonists, Aristotle et al., as well as the Germans, such as Christian Wolff, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Spengler and Heidegger.

These all [along with the Vedas] belong to Aryan Metaphysics.

What of that semi-Semitic intrusion [and infusion] Christianity?

I believe that it must be surpassed rather than be rejected.
Heidegger was correct in this.

We cannot simply go back to an historical pre-Christian Paganism, as this will merely re-enact the passage from Paganism to Chritsianity as a vicious circle.
We rather need to adopt a Paganism of the future which, while being redolent of the Aryan past, will have surpassed and overcome Paganism and Christianity.

This future Aryanity may be strange to some and even unpalatable.

However, it will have the terrible spirit of Odin about it.
It will be terrible and abyssmal.
It will act as a great winnowing for the peoples of the West, just as the first Odinist Experiment of 1933-1945 was.

Will this second Aryan experiment fall into the lap of the Germanics once more?

I think it will - but it may not be the Germanics of the narrow concept 'Germany'.

Therefore I do think that the Spirit of the Rage belongeth to Aryan Metaphysics, for Odin moves in mysterious ways.

Was Odin the first?

Or was Odin the last?

But there is no first, nor is there any last.

Odin is here in the Eternal Now of Being-Becoming.

Aupmanyav
Monday, January 15th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Sure, Carl.

First verse:
Swasti (well being) be all around, peace be all around,
Fullness be all around, good fortune be all around.
May all be happy, may all be without fear,
May all see goodness, may none suffer from sorrow.

Second verse:
May He protect us both, may He look after our studies, may we together work energetically,
May our studies be illustrious, may we not have discord.

Third verse:
Peace in the universe, peace in the skies, peace on water, peace on waters,
peace on medical plants, peace on vegetation, peace on all Gods, peace on Brahman,
peace to all, peace upon peace, peace pervades all.

Fourth verse:
Lead us from untruth to truth,
Lead us from darkness to light,
Lead us from death to Immortality.

Arrian:
Hinduism is christian .. : Dont understand, would anyone please explain?
This is very true for a sect of people .. : Hinduism defeated Buddhism once, it would do it again. We are not worried. When they were hindus, they accepted Vedas, they would do it again. Only the ignorant are impatient. Buddhism itself is only a variant of Hinduism. That is the reason Ambedkar opted for it and not for Christianity or Islam.

Carl:
Has it itself already died?: By no means.
Aryan of India coming to the west .. : Theories. Mine - Aryans started from a sub-polar region after/before last glaciation. They dispersed all along their travels. Went to North Europe, did certainly go to Italy and Greece. Were in Middle-East as Mittani (perhaps also as Hittites), stayed in Andronovo, tarried in Central Asia, went to Iran and India. Roots, that is the problem. Could not the Aryans have started from Scandinavia? They could very well have.

SuuT
Monday, January 15th, 2007, 06:19 PM
I see metaphysics [the philosophy of the Hellenics, and the Germanics] as being a continuation of the Aryan arc; it is an arc of thought-things.

Metaphysics both marks the limits of the human and transcends those limits.

Even our gods have need of metaphysics, albeit of a more exalted kind

As Elsa-Brita Titchenell shows, the Eddaic certainly has links with the Vedaic;
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupid?key=olbp30145
Masks of Odin on line

Links in the Blood, links in the Mind, and links in the Spirit.

As I have said elsewhere, our spiritual ties, the common ancestry of our respective spiritualities, have been severed per stirpes. One must either affirm or deny that we have everything we need in the remnants of Arya Evropa to advance any manner of metaprocession. I - for one - therefore, and thereby, draw a line between what might be called 'West Arya' and 'East Arya'.

Some manner of practical consideration must be made for the cause of thoughts and their consequences, in so far as 'wars' must be waged in their name. This is, in itself, a metaconsideration: the calculation, condensation and accumulation of ripedness.

The Fruit of Evropa is sweet enough.

He who seeks a (re)unification of the spiritual East with the spiritual West by the demonstrable existence of a once common root, must - if we are right about Race-Soul - seek to (re)unify per stirpes.

Unless - we have everything we need per capita in Evropa...

I say we have enough to trump the Indic in favour of ourselves.



The 'Aryan' is this particular web, spun on the tree that we call 'world'.

And metaanalysis should serve as a vehicle for flicking off unwanted spiders.


Someone today will have links with ancient tribes who have supposedly gone 'extinct' via metempyschosis.
If we are right about the 'Race-Soul', then we are each of us, a reincarnation of past Aryans and Germanics [just as future Aryans and Germanics are reincarnations of we] - this right across unthinkable aeons of 'time' [and what is 'time' to us!].

They won't - and don't - go around howling about it, however. Is there anything MORE secretive, and worthy of secret, than one's own atavism? "...it is indecent to show all five fingers..." - those who do, are usually missing a digit or two.



I believe that it must be [I]surpassed rather than be rejected.
Heidegger was correct in this.

We cannot simply go back to an historical pre-Christian Paganism, as this will merely re-enact the passage from Paganism to Chritsianity as a vicious circle.
We rather need to adopt a Paganism of the future which, while being redolent of the Aryan past, will have surpassed and overcome Paganism and Christianity.

This future Aryanity may be strange to some and even unpalatable.

However, it will have the terrible spirit of Odin about it.
It will be terrible and abyssmal.
It will act as a great winnowing for the peoples of the West, just as the first Odinist Experiment of 1933-1945 was.

Will this second Aryan experiment fall into the lap of the Germanics once more?

I think it will - but it may not be the Germanics of the narrow concept 'Germany'.

Therefore I do think that the Spirit of the Rage belongeth to Aryan Metaphysics, for Odin moves in mysterious ways.

Was Odin the first?

Or was Odin the last?

But there is no first, nor is there any last.

Odin is here in the Eternal Now of Being-Becoming.


Any 'religion' that is preceeded by the blowing of trumpets will fail.

Any 'religion' that is not in-line with the dynamics of its milieu will fail.

Any 'religion' that is some ad monstrum composite of dead or decaying bodies will fail.

These are Metaphilosophical considerations to be made prior to the announcement of any 'will be'.


"Will be" proceeds the hows and whys -which belong to Aryan Metaphysics in as much as Imposition is the net result. - eliminate imposition, and the metaphysic is no longer deserving of the qualifier, "Aryan".

Aupmanyav
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 04:34 AM
Indics are already in your favour.

Carl
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 02:08 PM
As I have said elsewhere, our spiritual ties, the common ancestry of our respective spiritualities, have been severed per stirpes. One must either affirm or deny that we have everything we need in the remnants of Arya Evropa to advance any manner of metaprocession. I - for one - therefore, and thereby, draw a line between what might be called 'West Arya' and 'East Arya'.


Some manner of practical consideration must be made for the cause of thoughts and their consequences, in so far as 'wars' must be waged in their name. This is, in itself, a metaconsideration: the calculation, condensation and accumulation of ripedness.

The Fruit of Evropa is sweet enough.

He who seeks a (re)unification of the spiritual East with the spiritual West by the demonstrable existence of a once common root, must - if we are right about Race-Soul - seek to (re)unify per stirpes.

Unless - we have everything we need per capita in Evropa...

I say we have enough to trump the Indic in favour of ourselves........

Any 'religion' that is preceeded by the blowing of trumpets will fail..........


I must say that I do partly have this feeling myself - that a divide should occur between that which from , IE times, went west - and that which went south. Indeed some do now think that Aryan should now be reserved for the IndoIranian line which lead to the 'Warrior' Vedics of the south. But if we do this , we need a comprehensive name for that which went west - into the various areas of Europe (Ayra West - ?European). Perhaps the term IE contains the original common strand and that is enough. But the division is now real - and the divide within 'our' Europe is almost more than we can handle - quite apart from any external invasion presence.

As for the South, for the most part the Aryans of Iran have fled - and the Vedics of India have been so willfully assimilated ( - observe the fate of Indra) that their truths are "all but forgotten". Of course this will be protested - but the truth of it is almost universally proclaimed , it seems to me. But I can imagine , in the fashion of the pagan , that to call again upon the old ways in new times could awaken a response. In the South , I can imagine India being part of the solution - rather than part of the future problem! In this much, I do see a role for the Indo-European idea remaining active in some quiet department. But I would also look , in this post-Vedic age for something metaphysically neo-Brahman to seriously replace the postVedic Hindu Triad Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva. ( But don't tell the Indians this yet!)

And as for our religion, who knows how the future will unfold ; there may well be trumpets - but there will be other things of greater importance - arising out of the 'metaphysics' of transformation and survival itself.

Arrian
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 06:01 PM
What belongs to Aryan Metaphysics?

Basically,

1. The art of strengthening the Will - How to rule, grow, extend and expand, self-surpass, within a code of self-discipline.
2. Locating the unintentionality of our actions, what is involuntary about our deeds - sacrality, race.
3. Nietzsche remarked, architecture was a sort of oratory of power by means of forms; so I'd say Aryan Metaphysics is concerned with an architecture of the Self - creating 'forms', moralities, the thousand year reich, new weapons, ubermensch, philosophy.
4. The affirmative extent; we reflect and attempt on how to ennoble life at any given moment - art, culture, the metaphysics of Gift-giving.
5. Magic - the metaphysics of war, blood and honour, on which I shall be better informed hopefully after reading Evola's essay on the same being translated for the first time in English: http://www.integraltradition.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=6&products_id=170


where should one start?

Thanks to Moody for giving a framework for this. I agree with him - with the greats; the eddas, the pre-Platonics of the ancient times and the modern Germanic ones, the runes, the Vedas, and a bitterly honest self-reflection.


What is Aryan?

I'd simply say all that is strong and valourous, noble from courage, and profoundly beautiful.


what is the limit of metaphysics - indeed, has it itself already died?

The limit- I suppose it depends on who is seeking. Could the lust for knowledge find a limit?
No, I don't believe it to have died. I see us in the process of creating our new Gods.


... yet if there are ancient roots in the east, perhaps there are also echoes to be heard.

This mindset of a chronology again is something I'm somewhat reluctant about.
Rather than what pre-dates what, I tend to concentrate on the wyrd that gave fitting each branch its wisdom in its own time and what advantage that should give us either way.

Moody
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 06:07 PM
As I have said elsewhere, our spiritual ties, the common ancestry of our respective spiritualities, have been severed per stirpes.

If that is the case, then the Gordian Knot severed by the unthinking blow of Alexander will be re-tied.
Per Stirpes implies that Aryanism has died, and that the branches [or 'stirpes'] have each now a separate inheritance parcelled out by 'equal share'.
An attractive simile, but inappropriate as Aryanism has not died, and there is no executor who can arrogate the position of doling out this inheritance.

Only the gods can do that - and the Aryan gods are not dead - can't you hear the rage of Odin on the winds?


One must either affirm or deny that we have everything we need in the remnants of Arya Evropa to advance any manner of metaprocession.

We only deny what is not Aryan; we do not reduce ourselves to any "remnants".
The Aryan conquers and colonises as he goes, seeding the world with his Higher Culture.
And if those feet, in ancient times, strode across continents, then his footprints remain, as he strides the wer-ald like a colossus.

The Aryan has a reponsibility to all those lands he has seeded.

Seeded, not ceded.


I - for one - therefore, and thereby, draw a line between what might be called 'West Arya' and 'East Arya'.

But where do you draw that line, Suut. Where and when?

What do you place on either side of the 'divided line' - and how 'thick' is that line?

Who is the map-maker here?

This sounds like the scuttle and run of de-colonisation.


Some manner of practical consideration must be made for the cause of thoughts and their consequences, in so far as 'wars' must be waged in their name. This is, in itself, a metaconsideration: the calculation, condensation and accumulation of ripedness.
The Fruit of Evropa is sweet enough.

The will-to-power can never be so satisfied.
What is sweetness to us?
Let us quench ourselves 'pon tartness.

And if we withdraw from such lofty considerations as you wish to, then let us not be blind to the fact that Europe herself may be uninhabitable in the future, just as she was largely during the last great Ice Age.

Our ambitions cannot be bound by a small promontory like Europe.
We should look on re-taking the world's largest continents - gaining them for Aryan hands just as Aryan feet had once walked upon them.


He who seeks a (re)unification of the spiritual East with the spiritual West by the demonstrable existence of a once common root, must - if we are right about Race-Soul - seek to (re)unify per stirpes.

The Return is inevitable anyway - the giant hourglass will be upended and the Aryan blood will flow back like sand into the east and from the east back into the west.
The World belongs to the Aryan soul.
All other race-souls can only serve the Aryan.

Why else is the Semite engaged in an eternal war against the Aryan?
Why else did the Semite want so desperately to defeat the Germanic/Nordic Odinist Experiment of Adolf Hitler?

Why else does the Semite want to keep the Continent of Columbus in its hands?

Either the Aryan rules or he dies: he can never serve.


Unless - we have everything we need per capita in Evropa...I say we have enough to trump the Indic in favour of ourselves.

"Enough"?
I have little patience for such parsimony.

The Aryan has at least two immediate duties;
(i) to find the lost Aryan Homeland, and
(ii) to rule all the continents of the earth before the next Ice Age - just as He did in past cycles.


And metaanalysis should serve as a vehicle for flicking off unwanted spiders.

What spiders don't you want?


They won't - and don't - go around howling about it, however. Is there anything MORE secretive, and worthy of secret, than one's own atavism? "...it is indecent to show all five fingers..." - those who do, are usually missing a digit or two.

There are those who always show five fingers - on the hilt of their sword.



Any 'religion' that is preceeded by the blowing of trumpets will fail.

I do not consider this a mere 'religion'.
Out of interest, do you have any 'whys' and 'becauses' to support your interesting assertions?

Aupmanyav
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 06:16 PM
The divide is there, who is hankering after a great unity. We are happy the way we are, and not doing badly either. It is only the roots which interests me. You know Indra only from our books. Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva stand replaced by Brahman for some of us. Sankara reinvigorated the theory in the eighth century, and that is mine too. Hinduism does not steam roller differing beliefs of its adherents. Sorry, Nietzsche and Evola, whatever they said, are not for us.

Arrian
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 06:18 PM
Arrian:
Hinduism is christian .. : Dont understand, would anyone please explain?

He meant organisations like ISKCON that conveniently use Krishna's name while meaning Christ in India, and vice-versa in our countries. Or more succinctly, "Islam was spread by the sword and Christianity by bread".
I think equality and pity is foreign to the Vedic spirit, and I am sure there are many bitter tales to be heard how a communist government came to sell out the interests of your country starting with equality and reservations since their coming to power last year, and all this in the name of 'economic reforms'.
I can't imagine a people of truly Vedic warrior spirit would watch by such vote-bank politics. I gather another sad consequence of that fact being, hindu wealth is subsidized for Haj, while your communist governments break up many temples and some are in the process of being nationalised. More robbery!


This is very true for a sect of people .. : Hinduism defeated Buddhism once, it would do it again. We are not worried. When they were hindus, they accepted Vedas, they would do it again. Only the ignorant are impatient. Buddhism itself is only a variant of Hinduism. That is the reason Ambedkar opted for it and not for Christianity or Islam.

I agree with Buddhism being a variant of Hinduism, but do not see Ambedkar as a representative of that fact.


Sorry, Nietzsche and Evola, whatever they said, are not for us.

I believe there is nothing in the Vedas, that Nietzsche did not also say, - merely a matter of mother-tongue.

SuuT
Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 08:40 PM
If that is the case, then the Gordian Knot severed by the unthinking blow of Alexander will be re-tied.

Tie it then - to the detriment of your own blood and Race-Soul, therefore.


Per Stirpes
implies that Aryanism has died, and that the branches [or 'stirpes'] have each now a separate inheritance parcelled out by 'equal share'.

It is a mistake to confuse the usurpation and subsequent abrogation of this designation via the 'trade and goods' melee as a simile of Human equivalency values. It does, however, have the primordial meaning that your afore mentioned metaphor of the "arc" is indeed so as fragment; and the missing components, while diasporic, hold only the connection to Aryan India that we choose to recognise. This is plain enough, so long as one recognises that if in any one given Race-Soul - and therefore bloodline - contains the whole of Arya (if it is indeed indivisible as you imply; if it is indeed accessed via metempsychosis, as you have stated), then we have no need for the Indic remnants (diaspora).

In fact, Moody, there need only be one Aryan left, for the whole thing to become again. And, perhaps this, is how it goes.


An attractive simile, but inappropriate as Aryanism has not died, and there is no executor who can arrogate the position of doling out this inheritance.

Only the gods can do that - and the Aryan gods are not dead - can't you hear the rage of Odin on the winds?

How Indic: again with the aleatory economic metaphors! - the dole is meted each and every time we say 'thus and thus' are Aryan. Your title to this thread is a partially meted dole.

I hear his rage. Can you hear his secrets?

Are you not willed godflesh?

Where do your thought-things reside if not in godhead?


Don't you have access to them?



We only deny what is not Aryan; we do not reduce ourselves to any "remnants".

This is a good spot for a quality/quantity distinction.


The Aryan conquers and colonises as he goes, seeding the world with his Higher Culture.
And if those feet, in ancient times, strode across continents, then his footprints remain, as he strides the wer-ald like a colossus.

"I think that people who speak in metaphors should shampoo my crotch" (Melvin Udall).

In instances such as your above statement I tend to defer to Mr. Udall. My tether to the Earth doesn't allow such Romanticism. It smells of a fairy-tale, and there are heavier things to be lifted than such a book, for me, anyway.



The Aryan has a reponsibility to all those lands he has seeded.

Seeded, not ceded.

He does? But what of the gods!



But where do you draw that line, Suut. Where and when?


The same place and time you do: where and when there is that which is not Aryan.



Who is the map-maker here?

The map makes itself in so far as Arya concerns such things as "maps". I know Sophistry, too, Moody - metaphor is the weapon instead of dialectic: wouldn't the question rather be "who is NOT the map maker here?" - given that "We only deny what is not Aryan"?


This sounds like the scuttle and run of de-colonisation.

Show me the "map."



The will-to-power can never be so satisfied.
What is sweetness to us?
Let us quench ourselves 'pon tartness.

The will to Power is not a thing in itself. It is balanced by the Power to will.

Take a swig o' the Ganges - you'll have your tartness.


And if we withdraw from such lofty considerations as you wish to...

Eh!?



The Return is inevitable anyway - the giant hourglass will be upended ... The World belongs to the Aryan soul.
All other race-souls can only serve the Aryan.

Why else is the Semite engaged in an eternal war against the Aryan?
Why else did the Semite want so desperately to defeat the Germanic/Nordic Odinist Experiment of Adolf Hitler?

Why else does the Semite want to keep the Continent of Columbus in its hands?

Either the Aryan rules or he dies: he can never serve.

I agree.




"Enough"?
I have little patience for such parsimony.

The Aryan has at least two immediate duties;
(i) to find the lost Aryan Homeland, and
(ii) to rule all the continents of the earth before the next Ice Age - just as He did in past cycles.

We, in the now, have enough to begin tangible change in the hearts and minds of our peoples: you're getting a little too priestly for my taste in the delegation of duties. Moreover, you self-reduce 'Aryan' to an infinitesimally small quantity; which while true, must needs reconciled with your Germanophilia.



What spiders don't you want?

Non-poisonous ones. And you?



There are those who always show five fingers - on the hilt of their sword.

Yea. Like Don Quixote! - you know what I meant.



Out of interest, do you have any 'whys' and 'becauses' to support your interesting assertions?

Billions of them. What would you like to know that you already don't?

Aupmanyav
Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 07:17 AM
Arrian, ISKON is just a fringe. Do you know Prabhupada did not annoint any of his disciples as Acharya. It is a tradition in India, passing Acharya appoints some one as the next. So, what their people say does not have any authority, it seems none was found to be good enough. There is equality as well as unequality. Unequality in the observed world, and equality in Brahman. Of course, pity is for those who do not understand Brahman.

We do not worry about problems of the day. One who gets perturbed easily is a Shudra (classical defination). Better people keep their composure. Probably reservation is doing some good to a section of the people. We take Ambedkar also in the same spirit. Economic reforms also are OK and this is how we would stand firm in international market. Mittals now have half the steel business, Tatas are aiming for the rest. Today we have this government, tomorrow we will have that. But democracy is precious and it should rule supreme, the best governing principle, one person, one vote. I will quote a verse from Iqbal, the national poet of Pakistan, before he turned rabid:

Kuchh baat hai ki hasti mitati nahin hamari,
Sadiyon raha hai dushman daur-e-zaman hamara.
(There is something in our existence that it does not die,
Though times have been against us for many centuries.)

Regards.

Moody
Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 02:18 PM
"I think that people who speak in metaphors should shampoo my crotch" (Melvin Udall). In instances such as your above statement I tend to defer to Mr. Udall. My tether to the Earth doesn't allow such Romanticism. It smells of a fairy-tale, and there are heavier things to be lifted than such a book, for me, anyway.

Yes, Suut - metaphors, metaphysics, metaphilosophy, romanticism and faery have no place in your sterile world of the purely matter-of-fact, material, biological and logical.
How fitting that you go to Hollywood for the wise-crack!

However, the Metaphor belongs to Aryan Metaphysics!


I know Sophistry, too, Moody - metaphor is the weapon instead of dialectic: wouldn't the question rather be "who is NOT the map maker here?" - given that "We only deny what is not Aryan"? Show me the "map."

We have to pick out the non-Aryan bits from between our teeth - there are no covenient expanses which allow us to "draw lines" in the way that you suggested.


The will to Power is not a thing in itself.

If there is a ding an sich, then the will to power is it.


Moreover, you self-reduce 'Aryan' to an infinitesimally small quantity; which while true, must needs reconciled with your Germanophilia.

On the contrary - you were the one wanting to circumscribe the Aryan [ or Western Aryan], not I.

The Aryan is a vast ocean, out of which comes storming and raging the mighty Germanic river.

And this furor teutonicus belongs too to Aryan Metaphysics; - the will to conquer, and the will to expansion.

Do not make your soul too small.

SuuT
Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Yes, Suut - metaphors, metaphysics, metaphilosophy, romanticism and faery have no place in your sterile world of the purely matter-of-fact, material, biological and logical.
How fitting that you go to Hollywood for the wise-crack!

However, the Metaphor belongs to Aryan Metaphysics!

You have no way to demonstrate your Ad Hominen as true: does the negation of an approach that conflicts with your Dasein (which I have always affirmed, not so incidentally...) indicate, necessarily, its delineation outside of Aryan Metaphysics? When am I NOT speaking in metaphors!

That I am able to have a sense of humour about things proceeds from the assumption that I am speaking to and amongst people capable of Golden Laughter. - you have been complimented, not cracked upon. - why the negative?

The only two things that I see lacking in your being-in-the-world (I assert that this belongs to Aryan Metaphysics), to the extent that access to it is available to me, is a sense of Humour, and the complete lack of "I don't know": to Metaphysics of any ilk, belongs a levity after the contemplation - and a plethora of "I don't know".

I am wary of an abundance of Metaphysical answers: isn't this part of Aryan Metaphysics?



We have to pick out the non-Aryan bits from between our teeth - there are no covenient expanses which allow us to "draw lines" in the way that you suggested.

Well, I'm not pulling into a filling station for a soft-drink: of course the 'expanse' is inconvenient.

Can you elaborate on "expanse" and how it applies to Aryan Metaphysics?




If there is a ding an sich, then the will to power is it.

That follows. But, is it True?



On the contrary - you were the one wanting to circumscribe the Aryan [ or Western Aryan], not I.

So then the circumscription of the Aryan - in any way - does not belong to Aryan Metaphysics?

I disagree.


The Aryan is a vast ocean, out of which comes storming and raging the mighty Germanic river.

And this furor teutonicus belongs too to Aryan Metaphysics; - the will to conquer, and the will to expansion.

But to where do we expand? - we shall need a 'map', no?


Do not make your soul too small.

I will try. In return, I expect that you will not over-estimate the size of your own: there is little room for growth in the 'All'.

Perhaps we might more adeptly discuss the Principa of 'Incorporation', in so far as it is to put or introduce into a body or mass as an integral part or parts.

From there, I can provide an explication of my thesis of 'Imposition' as it applies to Aryan Metaphysics; and perhaps something may come of it that none of us were previously aware.

fms panzerfaust
Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Well, I have the mithraic Ziu, a alchemical image created in 2005 based on a more old image from the poem "A nova face de Zeus", were he is represented in a red armor surrounded by an white aura. In the mithraic Ziu he is with a golden armor and four arms.

Fiction or not, the mithraic Ziu was necessary for me to take away the need of women that I had until that time. Today I dont need women anymore, so no matriarchic mechanism will give me orders as to what I can do or not.

Carl
Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 10:56 PM
I do feel that one cannot really think very well amid so much latent aggression; it is necessary to withdraw a little. The theme is a vital one : the grounding in metaphysical understanding of the task which lies ahead. This clearly involves the Future & the World - it involves coming to an understanding of the limitations which are to apply to this undertaking - both immediately , that is in the primary phases of the unfolding of the ideas - and then in the longer term where the idea is to be realized in the wider context of the world. Suut is right to question the issue of the Arya East ; these do obviously lie beyond the Immediate European concern ( Arya West )- this understood on a worldwide configuration.

But there is another side to this which must also be brought in to the wider thinking; where there is an ancient Indo-European Commonality , a common root in some sense in terms of the ancient race-lines or culture-themes as reflected in early theologies and symbols of the race and power , then these may indeed , as Moody is suggesting , still have meaningful resonance in the wider destiny of the world. Seen from the Germanic viewpoint ( and Moody has already mentioned Spengler - as well as Nietzsche & Heidegger), if we are to consider Faustian Destiny of the world, then it would not be wise to draw the circle too tightly around our thinking - since we may not yet fully understand which other peoples might be of use to the wider unfolding of the Idea in the world lying beyond the circle. We are not to know what alliances could be forged to assist in the wider task. If we are really to look at the bigger picture of the future, then we should not confine ourselves too quickly - in terms of the wider world, to a limited region. We may think of India as an example - and heaven knows we have talked enough preliminaries about the transition from Vedic times to Hindu. We have even elsewhere broached the possibility of a Metaphysical Being arising out of the Holy One called Brahman. The Indians have their own difficult way of doing their Thinking - but I do not total despair of reaching some profound Metaphysical Understanding. We have already been reminded of the Theosophical aspects of Western Odinic lore ; perhaps there are yet many further things to learn from that which was once so surely Vedic in its own Northern origin.

It is my view that the North is 'sacred' and worthy of safeguarding. If it is helpful from within the new Metaphysic of the (Germanic) Future for there to be an understanding of Odinn as 'Lord of this North' in some new fashion, then I see no problem. What once belonged there, can belong again, can still belong. This may not be for everyone....it may well assume new form, raised again from former wisdom inspired by the needs of the newer age. All is possible ; keep in mind also that Odinn has always so many names - and so many moods. There may well be frenzy, there will be battles - but there are also other modes of being - of cunning, of shifted perception, of poetic insight , even of 'sitting out quietly beside the Well'. There is still some mystery to know which might yet link the central importance of Odinn's sacred Mead - with the power of inspiration and the gift of finding ways through the most difficult of riddles -- and the Soma of the Vedics , adjunctive to the Fire of Agni - which both gave to Indra such convincing power & victory in his age.( The whole of book 9 - out of 10 - of the RigVeda is given over to the praise of Soma! ). Odinn has so many faces; battles are so often won before any violence is necessary! In the destiny of the Germanic- European , Odinn may indeed have such a relevance for many. Nor does it escape me that Fire in its many forms was the necessary core for both Indra in the south and Heraklitus in the West. And in the north too, Fire preceded the being of all things beyond that which was frozen and inert!

http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=440&postcount=6 :)

There are many points to bring back from what has already been said in previous posts. They are not forgotten .But let us not move too fast; let us not use aggression where it is unhelful. Moody can then protect this metaphysical thread from irrelevances - and the themes can so move progressively forward towards a deeper understanding of what is necessary and required. There may well be disparate areas - but in terms of the broader Metaphysic , I can well imagine Nietzsche and Heidegger being somewhere near the centre of the thread.

Arrian
Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 09:45 AM
Arrian, ISKON is just a fringe. Do you know Prabhupada did not annoint any of his disciples as Acharya. It is a tradition in India, passing Acharya appoints some one as the next. So, what their people say does not have any authority, it seems none was found to be good enough.

You recognise it has no authentic authority, but most Hindus don't. I'm sure you are aware of how many centres operate in India alone, and what a powerful infrastructure they have abroad, mostly from explaining the Gita which smell very Christian to me.

And apart from them, whole tribes and communities have been converted large-scale either by force or bribery by organisations who owe their loyalty to the Vatican. And pages of 'Gaudiya Vaishnavism' even promote and legitimize homosexuaity as Hindu! Airmanareiks is right; much of secular Hinduism is Christianity today, when they say with all un-Vedic passion, Hindus believe all truths and all Gods are one.


There is equality as well as unequality. Unequality in the observed world, and equality in Brahman.

No, I don't hold to this. If it were so, the Vedantins would not have differentiated between three 'kinds of fires' - black fire of the earth, red fire of the mid-sky, and white fire of the heavens. 'That' substrate which animates life - Brahman itself is said to be qualified as "not that, not that"; so one precisely cannot speak of any equality 'in Brahman' !


Of course, pity is for those who do not understand Brahman.

Agree.


We do not worry about problems of the day. One who gets perturbed easily is a Shudra (classical defination). Better people keep their composure.

I would hardly call intentional destruction of the Vedic and your post-Vedic faith since centuries 'problem of the day'; its been a never-ending war.

http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=607&Itemid=57

Shudras are the people in your governing office who are very happy to let China bid its claim on your entire eastern territory. Better people nip things in the bud.
Your explanation is only a sorry excuse for a lack of power and determination. Yet, I don't think the Vedic warrior spirit has died, its probably gone underground, morphing into yet another form, I know not what.


Probably reservation is doing some good to a section of the people.

The people who finally benefitted were the rich sons of the most backward castes, whose fathers voted these politicians into power. Only mediocrity can come out of this. Their hearts were not in the right place to begin with.


Mittals now have half the steel business, Tatas are aiming for the rest.

This is only thanks to our enemies' multicultural liberalist mere-profit-motivated mechanism in our own countries; India has nothing to do with this. France today is half-mongrel, by colour and by creed! What do you expect.
Any Mittal can get in.


Today we have this government, tomorrow we will have that. But democracy is precious and it should rule supreme, the best governing principle, one person, one vote.

Democracy is good only when the demos are good - but the majority are insensible and cannot think higher than their basic needs. Solely on that note, democracy will always be a big failure. Not to mention, its an age when even the voting-machines are rigged and bought off.



We rather need to adopt a Paganism of the future which, while being redolent of the Aryan past, will have surpassed and overcome Paganism and Christianity.
This future Aryanity may be strange to some and even unpalatable.

What would make it strange and unpalatable?

Upon what cruelty(ies) will the Paganism of the future permit itself to delight in?
How shall we measure the essence of its strength?

Moody
Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 03:01 PM
You have no way of demonstrating your Ad Hominem as true.

I'm surprised at your tone here; especially as you have accused Airmanareiks on this thread of being "rude" and of "only indiscriminately attacking everyone" he "tried to engage like a rabid dog"; - hardly polite, fair, or accurate - and certainly ad hominem.

You go on to say to him; "if you want to believe you are descended from the line of Athanareiks, knock yourself out; however, you should be aware that no such pedigree of this line exists..."[...] "Ergo, you're either loopy, or a liar".

This was also ad hominem, and demonstrates your tendency to disregard forms of descent which are beyond the biological [and this is a thread concerned with Meta-physics].

Turning to myself, you say of, what you call my "metaphoric" contributions;


How Indic ... "I think that people who speak in metaphors should shampoo my crotch" ... such Romanticism... smells of a fairy-tale ...Sophistry ... you're getting a little too priestly for my taste ... Like Don Quixote! - you know what I meant.


Astounding that the author of such a stream of patronising [and rude] ad hominems can then accuse the innocent butt of such remarks [and who therefore went on to justifiably characterise that author's approach as being overtly materialistic - see the charges made against 'atavism', "Romanticism", 'faery' etc., in the above] of making "undemonstrable" "Ad Hominems"!



That I am able to have a sense of humour about things proceeds from the assumption that I am speaking to and amongst people capable of Golden Laughter. - you have been complimented, not cracked upon. - why the negative?

Humour does not always translate so well on forum exchanges - hence the need to use smilies etc., when you are making 'jokes' - although crudities such as "shampoo my crotch" have no place in a philosophical discussion, in my view.


I am wary of an abundance of Metaphysical answers: isn't this part of Aryan Metaphysics?

Is that a rhetorical question [or humour]? If not, then make the case - it could be an interesting point - if you only pursued it straightforwardly, and without always attempting to shroud it with oblique and unfathomable "humour".


Suut is right to question the issue of the Arya East ; these do obviously lie beyond the Immediate European concern ( Arya West )- this understood on a worldwide configuration.

The more I learn about Western Philosophy, the more I realise that - as Nietzsche realised too - so much primordial thinking was done by the Indo-Aryans. As Philosophers, we must be aware that we don't get the whole story from the Western Aryans - we need to go to the Eastern Aryan too.

This is because Aryan metaphysics is beyond space and time.



But there is another side to this which must also be brought in to the wider thinking; where there is an ancient Indo-European Commonality , a common root in some sense in terms of the ancient race-lines or culture-themes as reflected in early theologies and symbols of the race and power ...." [...] "... then it would not be wise to draw the circle too tightly around our [I]thinking - since we may not yet fully understand which other peoples might be of use to the wider unfolding of the Idea in the world lying beyond the circle. We are not to know what alliances could be forged to assist in the wider task.

I agree here. And in Metaphysics, I see little distinction between the three Norns; the past and the future are here now.

What happens when you cut off a river at its source?


It is my view that the North is 'sacred' and worthy of safeguarding.

Yes, but the North has often moved South - and then back again; this is the runic dynamic of Fire and Ice as you refer to in your own excellent post.
As I have said, come the next Ice Age we may have to move South in order to survive.
Do you think that the non-Aryan peoples are going to welcome the Aryans with the kind of tolerance shown by the latter to the former in these days?

Odin will have blaze a path from the North to the South as he has always done.

Where's Odin when you need him?


But let us not move too fast; let us not use aggression where it is unhelpful... and the themes can so move progressively forward towards a deeper understanding of what is necessary and required.

It is a slow aggression, Carl. It is the feeling one has in the dead of night when a sudden and suspicious sound makes one's five fingers curl uneasily around the hilt of one's sword. But a moment later, one relaxes again.
But one always remains on watch.


What would make it strange and unpalatable?
Upon what cruelty(ies) will the Paganism of the future permit itself to delight in? How shall we measure the essence of its strength?

I do not need to spell it out; I have already hinted at the 'demo/geographics'.

"The wolf with its belly stitched full of big pebbles;
Nibelung wolves barbed like black pineforest
Against a red sky, over blue snow; or that long grin
Above the tucked coverlet - none suffice ...."

"... the hairless, knuckled feet
Of the last wolf killed in Britain ..."

I do not want to wait until the Last Wolf.

[Ted Hughes, from his poem 'February', in the collection, Lupercal, 1960]

http://www.hebdenbridge.co.uk/news/news04/images/th.jpg

And Poetry too belongs to Aryan Metaphysics.

SuuT
Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 07:17 PM
Post #'s 17 and 18 of this thread...:

http://forums.skadi.net/brother_nietzsche-t9870.html

Are paricularly fine examples of "...(my) tendency to disregard forms of descent which are beyond the biological".

An exerpt:

...The master is by no means a perennial, despite the quality of the soil, or how well it is cared for after it breaks free from the ground; there is no reliable ecological structure conducive to his sustenance let alone segregation into an (when looking out and down on the issue) arbitrarily, yet not capriciously, choice elite—which has always had nauseating political effects. Furthermore, how many times throughout history have apparently noble souls combined only to produce (relatively speaking) worthless offspring? Moreover, how many times have more distinguished characters of history not bred at all? The point: nature allows not for the destruction or dilution of the master; only his dormancy and protracted and hibernated gravitas—it’s protracted gathering: the husk from which it comes, from which it springs forth in preparedness is, almost, incidental. The master is not bound by biology, as is the baser, more idiomatic, assumption amongst the higher types in spite of their intuitive aversion to everything colloquial. The master is bound by the apparent caprice of nature, herself: nature favors secretive recessives, but the price we recessives pay is patience—something not always at arms length to us, relative to our own live ideal. A workable, higher minded, eugenics must be, from its inception, a spiritual matter that takes into account the, more often than has previously been noticed, lifting-up-and-out of the master from one biological lineage, as science currently understands such processes, into another—inevitably more spiritually constructed for nature’s experiments: nature gleefully and excitedly plays trait hopscotch in such matters; and, thus far, even the highest of men yet exampled on earth have, at least consciously, misunderstood nature’s riddle with respect to the ‘phenotypic’ expression of the master as being fundamentally imprinted in the necessity of “blood” when blood is, perhaps, exceptional smoke and mirrors...

If/When you loose that convienient memory of yours, Moody, show at least a glimmer of reciprocity by answering the questions posed to you, respond to the points made by myself concerning our 'need' for the Indic, and dump the smoke-and-mirrors, I'll re-evaluate making contributions to this thread.

Moreover, until you reconcile what seems to be an amnesia concerning the necessity of Blood to Race-Soul (amongst other things) as seen here...: http://forums.skadi.net/so_called_race_soul-t58600.html?&highlight=on+the+so+called+rACE-sOUL


Moderator Lawless: "Looking back overthe thread, I feel that some quotes may be worth repeating just to establish strongly this Spiritual Outlook;



"There is only nobility of birth, only nobility of Blood. Spirit alone does not ennoble.
[Nietzsche]

"To attain any assured knowledge about the soul is one of the most difficult things in the world.
[Aristotle]

"Soul is merely a word for something about the body.
[Nietzsche]

"Soul means race seen from within & conversely race is the external form of the soul.
[Rosenberg]

"Belief in the body is always stronger than belief in the spirit.
[Nietzsche]

"Your blood is your highest possession.
[Guido von List]

"Blood sin & desecration of the race are the original sin in this world.
[Hitler]

"How beautiful they are, how pure are these free forces not yet corrupted by the spirit!
[Nietzsche]

"And now I bow my head, and utter a prayer of my own:

As long as the Flame burneth,

As long as my Fame liveth,

As long as my children carry on

My Name into Eternity,

Only then will my Spirit liveth,

And my Soul

Immortal be." (Moody Lawless)
__________________


...I've no interest.

Carl
Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 11:47 PM
As for "Aryan", we have an uneasy tentative understanding that from the original Pre-IndoEuropean people-groups, we have those who came West and those who went South. We are concerned here with the Metaphysical and not with the Biological - which itself is significantly divergent and largely non-assimilable. We need to be clear about this . Where there are currents of culture and theology which can properly inform - we should not seek to exclude them from the ultimate purpose of our understanding and forward thinking.

And as for MetaPhysical , we need to think of our subject in terms of what it stands for in itself (being-as-such) - only then moving on to questions of cause and outcome or consequence. It is necessarily Supra-Physical , transcending
the mundane - moving also into the subtle , the esoteric & the poetic. To take these aspects away from Odin would leave little of the truth; to take them from the Edda would invalidate much of their value. The purely acedemic analysis will not grasp the forward and Faustian nature of the task , intrinsic to which is the Will to Meaning in the coming World , its Chaos & Disorder. The underlying purpose of the mobilization of the Spirit within the People who will be called is to safeguard their future higher-being in the world. The supreme and over-riding Ethic will rest in their own-informed intrinsic value, that coming down to them from the former ages; it will not rely on notions and principles drawn from elsewhere that do not belong to the inner soul-lineage of the people themselves.

By all means amplify my understanding of these things if you wish. These are by their nature not easy questions to ask or think about.

I asked what belongs to this MetaPhysics and where one might start:




1. The art of Strengthening the Will - Of How to rule, grow, extend and expand, to self-surpass, within a code of self-discipline.

2. Locating the unintentionality of our actions, what is involuntary about our deeds - sacrality, race.

3. Nietzsche remarked - architecture was a sort of oratory of power by means of forms; so I'd say Aryan Metaphysics is concerned with an architecture of the Self - creating 'forms', moralities..............

To realise any purpose necessitates being in a position to direct events...as you say to rule. There is indeed now a struggle underway - in advance of any such thing. For ourselves , we might hold out this higher ideal but its realization and wider implementation is still some way off. It is not easy to travel hopefully - perhaps that is where these questions of discipline do first arise. It is within ourselves - but must also be within our Folk. That is why it is necessary to be attentive to the signs which are all about us - spiritually, socially and politically. We must be clear to ask the right questions of the times...and We might well ask questions of the culture about us ---




4. The affirmative extent; we reflect and attempt on how (best) to ennoble life at any given moment - art, culture, the metaphysics of Gift-giving......

5. Magic (and) the metaphysics of war, blood and honour, (- on which I shall be better informed hopefully after reading Evola's essay) .............. :)

The fallen Culture is all about us , that which already reduces us and seeks to destroy our will to resist all what would undermine us. So indeed, therefore , to bring in the unexpected as a Strengthening of Will, or of Vision or Purpose would seem entirely consistent with our need to promote all that will take us forward into the new age of 'salvation'. The more that people question what is happening - and create for themselves better and more uplifting priorities, the more will the society that belongs be itself transformed from within. Before ever great decisions can be made , there are thousands of small, personal and local decisions which assist in the shaping of the future. These need to be informed by images and symbols of the better things and better times. These in turn will inspire the greater Spirit within. This is indeed where an older theology may be relevant - in whatever appropriate form - as a counterbalance to prevailing corruption and alienation.



Thanks to Moody for giving a framework for this. I agree with him - with the greats : the Eddas, the pre-Platonics of the ancient times and the modern Germanic ones... the Runes, the Vedas... and a bitterly honest self-reflection.


And I agree with you - they stand as guiding forms which come from the past and into the present and future of those who receive them. We do as we can and the Wyrd enfolds about us...we may not know - but then others do not know either. As Heraklitus puts it:

"........Things keep their secrets"

But then, he holds out the hope perhaps of better things -

" The ear & the eye , the Mind in Action
------ these do I value ".

Moody
Friday, January 19th, 2007, 03:17 PM
Post #'s 17 and 18 of this thread...:

Not of this thread, but a completely different thread; I am responding to the claims you made in this thread.


If/When you loose that convienient memory of yours, Moody, show at least a glimmer of reciprocity by answering the questions posed to you, respond to the points made by myself concerning our 'need' for the Indic, and dump the smoke-and-mirrors, I'll re-evaluate making contributions to this thread.

This is a discussion, not an interrogation.

We have all made points here - it is up to the gods to evaluate them.


Moreover, until you reconcile what seems to be an amnesia concerning the necessity of Blood to Race-Soul (amongst other things) as seen here...:

Yet another thread, rather than this one ...

The operative word in Blood and Spirit is not "Blood", but the smallest word ... "and".

It is the 'and' that is lacking in your contributions to this thread.


We are concerned here with the Metaphysical and not with the Biological - which itself is significantly divergent and largely non-assimilable. We need to be clear about this . Where there are currents of culture and theology which can properly inform - we should not seek to exclude them from the ultimate purpose of our understanding and forward thinking.

Yes, I agree here. Reading the Aryan Dashanas can "inform" our own Germanic Metaphysics, just as reading the ancient Greek Pre-Platonics can do the same.

That the India of today might be 'biologically' lost does not invalidate the great achievements of its past, which being of a philosophical nature, are therefore eternal and can forever nourish us, even in this Wolf Age.

It is grist to the philosophical mill, therefore.

However, it is also a matter of discerning the correct lines of descent. This is why the Vedas may seem closer to us in spirit than does the Old Testament - even though we may have 'grown up with' the latter.

So we are always seeking that which belongs to us, because the Aryans have seeded all of the world's continents over time and therefore there are glimmerings of the Aryan wisdom amongst not only the Indics, but other cultures too, just as the poetic mead of Kvasir dripped down upon an unsuspecting world.


The purely acedemic analysis will not grasp the forward and Faustian nature of the task , intrinsic to which is the Will to Meaning in the coming World , its Chaos & Disorder.

This is why Nietzsche, for one, philosophised with a hammer.
You are right to pick up on the Spenglerian metaphysic of the Faustian; without that spirit the Germanic is no longer ... 'Germanic', but rather a diluted shadow of itself.
I fear that shadow is beginning to loom in all its insipidity.


To realise any purpose necessitates being in a position to direct events...as you say to rule.

A very important aspect of Metaphysical thinking; it is there in Heraclitus who has the thunder-bolt guide all things; it is there in Plato's Republic and his association with the tyrant Dionysius of Syracuse, and in Aristotle's Politics and his tutorship of Alexander the Great.
It is there in the world governing Metaphysics of Hegel and in Nietzsche's 'Lords of the Earth'.
It is there in the Faustian will to invent and to explore - all this is metaphysics, as are the metamorphoses found in poetic metaphor.
All this is Dasein.


The fallen Culture is all about us , that which already reduces us and seeks to destroy our will to resist all what would undermine us. So indeed, therefore , to bring in the unexpected as a Strengthening of Will, or of Vision or Purpose would seem entirely consistent with our need to promote all that will take us forward into the new age of 'salvation'.

The Will is whithering as we speak; the Will to a total Metaphysic of Aryan world domination ever wanes.

Soon the enemy will be the sole possessor of the will to power - this will be disastrous for not just for Aryan Metaphysics but for all of world culture.

Then only the cash-nexus will rule.

I see that beast across the horizon, waiting to be re-born in Bethelhem.

Carl
Friday, January 19th, 2007, 10:33 PM
It is true that we need to be careful with this idea of the Aryan commonality. It is all too easy to run into the horror of mixing up bloods rather than spirit. The pure Mind may well contemplate the commonalities of faith over vast times and distances - finding instructive and intriging parallels; but the starker truth remains that after so much time, the bloods are now alien even though the Fires still burn bright and hot.

Where it is possible to reach across the ages for Vedic or even Greek texts, it would be false to imagine in any way the peoples may themselves be reached across! Indeed, the paradox is resolved in the thought that the Spirit is of the Blood - and the Blood is of the Spirit. The tragedy of our modern age is that the very Thought is dishonoured by the Practice. The Vedas have given way to widespead decline in the Unity of their original Witness. The Northen Gods too cannot be comfortable in an alien environment - where they are unrecognized and ignored. A Restoration is required in the inner Thought and Spirit - Fire and Faith again must warm the Blood to its duty.


"" Fire of all things
is the judge and ravisher".

(Heraklitus . F26)


http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=744970&postcount=82

Moody
Saturday, January 20th, 2007, 01:00 PM
The Vedas have given way to widespead decline in the Unity of their original Witness. The Northen Gods too cannot be comfortable in an alien environment - where they are unrecognized and ignored. A Restoration is required in the inner Thought and Spirit - Fire and Faith again must warm the Blood to its duty.

And is not Europe today becoming an "alien enviroment"?
The Northern Gods will rarely show themselves in such a milieu, and will rather retire to their solitary abodes.

And if the Globalists have their way, Britain and India will be inter-changeable in the future - an untrammeled Western Capitalism will traverse the world.

So 'Place', too, is important to Aryan Metaphysics.

Heidegger famously said that "language is the House of Being".

Aryan man dwells ontologically in the house of his 'language'.

But his house begins to be condemned and is occupied by squatters.

Therefore he needs to speak down the Ages.

Metaphors leap over time and space and bring us closer to our ancestors when they dwelt poetically and purely.
When they understood the meaning of the Rune Othil.

Arrian
Saturday, January 20th, 2007, 04:45 PM
I do not need to spell it out; I have already hinted at the 'demo/geographics'.

Ah, I see; I was mistaken you meant Paganism of the future might evolve in a way even unpalatable to 'us'. Thank you, that was a nice selection.



The supreme and over-riding Ethic will rest in their own-informed intrinsic value, that coming down to them from the former ages; it will not rely on notions and principles drawn from elsewhere that do not belong to the inner soul-lineage of the people themselves.
By all means amplify my understanding of these things if you wish. These are by their nature not easy questions to ask or think about.

Nietzsche, in What is noble? (Will to Power, 943) remarks:
"There are not too many valuable things: and these come and wish of themselves to the valuable man. We do not easily admire."
Its my belief that we first have to raise ourselves to such a state, ripe enough to pull the will of a certain path and attract the course of the valuable to us. This can only arise from an inward state of discipline and war, that is character forming. Then as you say, what can come to us and what can really befall us, which was not already ours?!
Its why I state those five basic points. If "the stillest words bring the storm, and thoughts that come on doves' feet guide the world", the Grounding must begin with things that change the least, and since all things change, such things which least change must exhibit the greatest illusion or artifice. Nietzsche therefore calls Metaphysics as the "will to art"...
""Life ought to inspire confidence": the task thus imposed is tremendous. To solve it, man must be a liar by nature, he must be above all an artist. And he is one: metaphysics, religion, morality, science - all of them only products of his will to art..." [Will to Power, 853]
Every time Aryan metaphysics strengthens, building over the ages, it is a tribute to the Aryan as an artist, his creative will to art.
That's why my first point begins with "The art of strengthening the will".
I hope I have cleared up a few things.
We do not go chasing after power. As both Evola and Nietzsche say somewhere, the imperative is building a solar attitude within ourselves, to which feminine Power, comes of its own accord "wanting to be possessed", and we gladly "possess".


The fallen Culture is all about us , that which already reduces us and seeks to destroy our will to resist all what would undermine us. So indeed, therefore , to bring in the unexpected as a Strengthening of Will, or of Vision or Purpose would seem entirely consistent with our need to promote all that will take us forward into the new age of 'salvation'.

Not necessarily Carl. The fallen Culture need not say everything about us;

"The starting point is where great force is, where force is to be discharged. The mass, as the sum of the weak, reacts slowly; defends itself against much for which it is too weak - of which it can make no use; does not create, does not advance.
This in opposition to the theory that denies the strong individual and believes "the mass does it". ...four or five generations lie between the active agent and the mass - a chronological difference.
The values of the weak prevail because the strong have taken them over as devices of leadership." [Will to Power, 863]

So maybe its our well-trained instincts imbued with wisdom and foresight, that we let the machinary of Democracy make the mass "malleable", and easy to mould them under our hands, making them slaves of even their "right to question everything"...
Just like Nietzsche figured out the ultimate logic of Christianity, let them exhaust themselves out and ultimately they will undermine their ownselves... we may not even have to "fight" this war!
Thank you for the Heraclitean reminder.

Also, in the process of creating gods, we might do well also to create a few demons! - those beings that even defying the gods, exercise the will to think for themselves.



Heidegger famously said that "language is the House of Being".

Aryan man dwells ontologically in the house of his 'language'.


I value these lines, thank you.

Carl
Sunday, January 21st, 2007, 07:47 PM
Thinking about Thinking.

Arrian mentions Nietzsche's thought on Architecture as 'an oratory of Power through Form'. Thoughts too may become more powerful by the building up of Words into larger forms or structured formulas. Where words have significant meanings, their precise conjoining often creates even greater significance. This occurs frequently within German Metaphysics. I sometimes use a dictionary to explore the range of meaning and significances of key Words. Since the Germans delight in conjoining words to create new compounds ( a sort of verbal alchemy? ), I also use their dictionary.:

Denken ( dachte, gedacht) : to think.....

Ich kann seinen Denken nicht folgen! (follow, understand).

Mensch denkt - Gott [?Wyrd] lenkt . (= steers, directs) (-- being an adapted proverb).

.....'das Volk der Dichter und Denker '.......

Denkansatz : - a starting point for thinking....

Denkisch : intellectual...(?)

Denkmodell : a plan for further discussion ,
. a working hypothesis.

Denkvers : - a verse -memonic.

Andenken : memory ( to honour someone,
. - commemorate, a rememberance.)

Denkmal : memorial (- monument): a mark(-ing) of thought..........Thought & Memory.....
(= Odinn's Ravens , Hugin and Munin - . his 'intelligence' ; perhaps related then?!)

The whole earth o'er, every day
hover Hugin and Munin,
I dread lest Hugin droop in his flight,
- yet still more do I fear for Munin .

( Edda 4: Grimnismal - 20)

Denkwurdig : memory-worth, memorable........

Denkwurdig Eregnis - a notable or
memorable event.
( - especially in Heidegger , a sudden Metaphysical 'revelation' or significant awareness).

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We are thinking with Words and Ideas; these are the units with which we build up our thought structures. These units evolve progressively into more elaborate structures. This is the archetecture of language and meaning. The question of Aryan Metaphysics is already a complex - collectively arising in the North in historical times and variously celebrating the being that is within itself in its very own historicity. The unity of Being in the Arya East (South) arises in The Rig Veda in the Cosmic Order Rta and the tendency of each (Vedic) God to contain the others. This is most easily to be seen in Agni - since Fire "ascends" to the other Gods (manifest in Nature) as Unifying prayer and supplication. Thus is Agni the divine Priest. Only much later does the thought - that the unity of all should be in Brahman - arise ; already is the ultimate possibilty of the unifying Metaphysic of the One visible within higher Vedic thinking.

This existed long ago in the thinking and science of the early Ionian Greeks. The Gods - again within Nature - gathered their beings together with all other beings in the unity of the Metaphysical ONE. Only the nature of this ONE was in question , for some water , for others air ... and for Heraklitis, Fire. Perhaps in his thinking he already understood that the essence of beings existing beyond nothingness rested upon the presence of (divine) energy within. In the language of contemporary Metaphysics, it is the Mystery of Being which enables beings from within their being to stand out from nothingness. For any collective group , the essence of itself must also lie within; the Being that unites it must itself remain intact for the collective identity to project itself beyond the nothingness that otherwise awaits. Perhaps this is why Heidegger concluded, after an eventful lifetime of academic metaphysics, thinking and poetry that :

"Only a God can save us " ...

....a God within the us that is surely, in these times, in need of Salvation! A God within that is surely, at once, intrinsic to the collective us and yet entirely unfallen to the forgetfulness of the World. I think of it as a belonging with (mit) and a calling to - unifying all that by cosmic right (Rta) belongs together.

"One Thunderbolt strikes -
root through everything".

Heraklitus (F28).

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Aupmanyav
Monday, January 22nd, 2007, 01:16 PM
Arrian. Many centers, OK, we join them to worship Krishna (and Shiva and the mother Goddess, they do not negate that). Geeta may seem christian to you, it is essence of Vedas for us. Hare-Krishnas do not legitimize homosexuality, they may be just as tolerent of it as any normal hindu. As for their dancing, even their first teacher, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, danced in ecstasy of divine love of Krishna, and he is for us one of the later five great teachers (acharyas). We also venerate him. A problem can arise if they add a new one or discard an old one.

Gods were one even in the Vedas, Indra was Agni, Agni was Indra, Vishnu was Surya, and so on, till the list narrowed down to Brahman. There is total equality in Brahman and no differences (that is the best guess at the moment). Though it may be difficult to understand for those who have an Abrahamic background. We will know the properties of Brahman only when science breaks up the riddle of matter/energy/space/time. Kindly give me some reference of the three kinds of fires, off-hand, I am not able to get your meaning. Of course, there is a celestial fire of sun, then the yagna fire, and the household fire (which the lady of the house was required to attend all the time). I will check for that.

Devotion in hinduism is a highly analysed topic. "There are five kinds of Bhava in Bhakti.These Bhava or feelings are natural to human beings and so these are easy to practice. They are: Shanta, Dasya, Sakhya, Vatsalya and Madhurya Bhavas. 1. In Shanta Bhava, the devotee is Shanta or peaceful. He does not jump and dance. He is not highly emotional. His heart is filled with love and joy. Bhishma was a Shanta Bhakta. 2. Sri Hanuman was a Dasya Bhakta. He had Dasya Bhava, servant attitude. He served Lord Rama whole-heartedly. He pleased his Master in all possible ways. He found joy and bliss in the service of his Master. 3. In Sakhya Bhava, God is a friend of the devotee. Arjuna had this Bhava towards Lord Krishna. The devotee moves with the Lord on equal terms. Arjuna and Krishna used to sit, eat, talk and walk together as intimate friends. 4. In Vatsalya Bhava, the devotee looks upon God as his child. Yasoda had this Bhava with Lord Krishna. There is no fear in this Bhava, because God is your pet child. The devotee serves, feeds, and looks upon God as a mother does in the case of her child. 5. The last is Madhurya Bhava or Kanta Bhava. This is the highest form of Bhakti. The devotee regards the Lord as his Lover. This was the relation between Radha and Krishna. This is Atma-Samarpana (total surrender). The lover and the beloved become one. The devotee and God feel one with each other and still maintain a separateness in order to enjoy the bliss of the play of love between them. This is oneness in separation and separation in oneness. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Jayadeva, Mira and Andal had this Bhava. (http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/bhaktiyoga.htm)

About Crusadewatch, it is certainly a momentary problem. Governments come and go, and rules keep on changing. At present Sonia Maino Gandhi is at the helm, such things would happen. If we survived the 27 years of Congress rule before, we can survive a few more years. That does not put us in a tizzy. At the moment she is thinking whether she should go for a 'Kumbha' bath at Allahabad or not (the State is going to polls in a month's time), the Ganges being what it is. Let us see what happens about reservations, do the people actually vote for the schemers, there are many others dangling similar carrots. Some times Indian people get fed up and throw all in the dust bin. Of one thing I am sure, Hindu/Aryan India would never be cruel.

Airmanareiks
Thursday, January 25th, 2007, 02:51 AM
And is not Europe today becoming an "alien enviroment"? The Northern Gods will rarely show themselves in such a milieu, and will rather retire to their solitary abodes. So 'Place', too, is important to Aryan Metaphysics. Aryan man dwells ontologically in the house of his 'language'. But his house begins to be condemned and is occupied by squatters.
Therefore he needs to speak down the Ages.
Metaphors leap over time and space and bring us closer to our ancestors when they dwelt poetically and purely.
When they understood the meaning of the Rune Othil.

Monism.
Mind/Body/Spirit as one.
The world is mind/body/spirit as well.
Land wights
Elvar

The Aryan Gods are in the DNA and in the Aryan Mind. Most are born in a foreign environment, educated in a foreign religion, culture and thus are not aryan. By reconnecting to the ancient aryan religion, you regain your true godhood which was given by Rig in the past. The goal is to reconnect your mind/body/soul to the Aryan Gods. Once done, you are a Godi or Godthjod/Gutthiuda, an emanation of God. And the Aryan Gods live and live progresses upward to the divine.

Othil is a geographic race soul. By yourself, it is you. With other aryans, then it is that group. But to live in a place of peace and agreement, you must have a nation, because it is necessary to drive out the alien and purify the environment.

Thus when Goths came into a new land, there was a land naming. We had to change the name, to RESPIRITUALIZE the heim. Vikings also did not want to scare away the land spirits when they came back home from viking so the y took the dragon head down from the ship. But the dragon head was used to frighten foreigners and the foreign land. This is why Athanaric would not step on Roman soil. It was defiled.

So we live in an alien outer environment. That which is not aryan, religiously, which is mind, body and spirit is utangards. The outer rune realm. The only innangards there is in most of the world, is inside your home or inside you.



I agree its a racial religion and unique to the Indo-Aryans. The RV breathes expansion and the spirit of expansion in every breath of its hymn; the caste system and the Manu were formulated not to turn isolationist but to better organise this expansion, and the acculturating effect of moulding all those happened in the way.
The race-hatred exhibited here, I wouldn't put that on par with the kind of Semitic hatred expressed in the testaments or the quran against those of alien faith. The RV hatred lacks ressentiment. It was not a religion that sprang from/for purely hating anybody.
.



The Law of Manu is a reflection of truth of preservation of the higher race. Which is why there is segregation. An Aryan cannot look at, eat the food of, a non aryan.
It also reflects the truth that the better should be valued over the lesser. Which is why the Priests had power, the mind and Rita/Rede/ which is logos or logic or divine law/mind over pure instinct/egoism, the self, pain and pleasure, animality.

Aryan law is ultimately about purity and preservation. Preservation of divine Godlaw and racial purity and preservation. Both are intertwined because of the monism of mind and body. Both the mind and body must be pure. Thus a Aryan Godi, must be only with the highest racial caste, which is nordic, of pure blood/spirit/mind.

So the Law of Manu was about organizing the new territory from chaos of two races, aryans and sudra/dasysus within an aryan religious structure which is always been about segregation due to the truth of inequality of substance (see Plato).

The RV race hatred is a hatred of the foreign which is defiled and less pure than Nordics. The superior looking down on the inferior. Whereas the non aryan races tend value equality (see non aryan hinduism, jesusism). Never forget that their drive is largely due to an o inferiority complex and wanting to have sex with aryan women who are better looking then the dark women. Non whites are not as mental a race, and view life as gaining pleasure and avoiding pain, thus being driven by the lowest race on a purely sexual impulse.

The higher race, values the mind, metaphysics, philosophy and therefore the true political system is heirarchial caste with the aryan priests are rulers. The first aryan priest ruler was Rig of course.





What belongs to Aryan Metaphysics? where should one start ? What is Aryan? what is the limit of metaphysics - indeed, has it itself already died?

The Persian scripture and the Rig Veda Samhita and the other (three) Vedas belong there - they are the Holy books of the East - not of the West].

They are holy books of that race. The aryan race. If you studied comparative Aryan religion you would see the validity of reconstructing the original aryan religion.


Regarding Zoroastrianism and how it fits with Aryanism, check out the Rune Aetts. They mirror the dualistic Zorastrian/Mithric(remember the Romans believed in Zorastrianism) religion of Good Spirit of Light/Fire vs Bad of Matter. Remember, the Zorastrians were called fire worshipers. Remember, the Vedic aryans always had to have their house fire lit. You have the house fire as a symbol of aryan God. Remember, Heraclitus saying looking into a fire "There is God". Its all the same Aryan religion, east or west because it is connected with the aryan race/mind/spirit and travels whereever that Aryaman/women lives. Temporality matters not, being the person's mind/spirit is connected ontologically, dang an sich, with those aryan Gods whose names changed, but essence remains the same.


__________________



You should see the similarities between Aryan Zoroastrianism and Asatru if you know the two.
__________________


Rig Edda and Law of Mannuz
in Runesr

Rig Edda nnd the Law of Munus are the Ur religion of Erd. There are two historic evidences. Primarily, Rig Veda / Law of Manu and Rune Aetts. Extant they date from 1,300 BCE but where known orally MUCH earlier. THe rune Aetts are extant in sequece and are earlier. Airyans espoused their religion orally, to have control of who knew it. They had symbols of existnece/being. THese are the Runes. So they told the God saga. First, putting down one Rune, first F (fator), the GOdi telling the tale. Rig Veda = Rig (king) Veda (vit, wit = knowledge) It is not coincidence that both scriptures of AIryans were called Edda/Veda. The true name is Rig Edda. THe King's Knowledge. Or the Mind/Thought o the Ruler/Rede. In the East, you had the Law of Manu and in Germania times there was Mannus son of Tuisto/Twin. Their law was Law of Manus (logically).
The validity of the Rig Edda/Law of Mannus is thus proven, preserved through time by the order of the rune aetts. The Godar transmitted the Edda orally, from generation to generation, given only to the worthy. The Godsaga was first espoused by ordering the runes and verbally espousing the Edda. Thus you always see the ordering in the preceding way historically.


__________________
1st Rune Aett - Spirit, Fire, Immaterialism, Race of God (Light), Light Spirit (elves), Fire, Hate, Seperation, War, Racism, Segregation, From One to Muliplicity. LIFE. Muspel - Volsungs. MAN Light children. Opposite = Nifel Hagal- Contraction of All Runes = Death = Hel = Black HOle.

__________________
F = Fe-hu, wealth, power, BEING, Fa-tor, GOD, Gaut, Odin, Woutan, Goutan. God in a triad is Past (Mimer), Present (Urd), Future (Skuld). Symbol = Valknut. All -Father. Odin is Mind (Hugr/Huginn and Memory/Munin. Thus, Omniscience, All Mind of the ALl Father Odin which is Immaterial, thus eternal, not material, hence temporal.
Ur(d), well/heim of existence, mana (mind, thoughts, BEING, the present, asgard, norn of the present. From a point of ONE, the Mind of God (GOD), came all Runes/thoughts. God thinks, thus expresses Ideas/Runes. Thus, the expansion of Runes, muliplication of space, therefore time. Ur place of God/Judgement, where the Thing is held , where God lives (norns past, present, future) in his totality.
T = Thuraz/Thorn/Thor- Power, Will/Villi. Magn/Power, that which drives creation, which turns the world (mill/Mundilfari/Fylfos), Muspel, Elemental Fire Expansion of cosmos creating space/time/existence, Male principle. Electricity God, light, upward, transcendent, air - Opposite of Gravity Black Hole, downward, Death.
R = Raidho/Ride, expansion of the cosmos, riding on Airmansul, Rede/Rita/ Rightousness. Urminsul is the Raidho/riding of God's being. Thus, you must be of God (being/essence/thought) to have eternal/cosmic life, i.e. for the soul to continue after the material destruction of the body. That which is not Rit/Rede is Jotunheim, material Ape.
A = Ansuz/Ases - Race of Aryan,Light, Pure, Noble being, God's essence/spirit/anda. God's Odin/Villi/Ve.
K = Kenaz/Knowing/Torch - Fire - Logi/Logos/Logic. Muspelli.
G = Gefu/Generate/GIve/Gibor, Mundilfari, Galaxies, Spinning, Fylfs,
W = Wunjo/WIn/Happiness- God lives. When an Aryan is tru, one with himself, he is one with God and is Wunjo.


______________________
2nd Rune Aett, All Matter, Materialism, Race of Jotuns and Black spirits (elves) (Darkness, Female, Universal Love, Beastiality, Muliplicity TO One, Whore, Contraction) Nifel = Nibelungs, Nifel (Myst) Heim (Home) = lit. Gas Chamber. Death, Black Hole. Race of Jotuns.

H = Hagal/Hail,Hel - Hag (Old women) All, Shaped as a snawflake, Nifelhel, the black hole where there is no light, contraction, female, sucking life, no time, space or life. Contraction of All RUnes. The broad of Lokean, darkness, evil. From Nifel came the destroyers of Gutthuida. Nifel = Nibel = Niblungens, the offspring of Hel, sought to destroy the Godseed, From Rig's Volsi (phallus), the Volsungs a tribe from Frey Ing. Gravity opposite of Electricity. From Spirit, to gas, to Liquid, to Crystal, to pure Matter, Solid. The Hagal rune is the female rune which takes all other runes in her into the black hole of death. Materialism, Money, Beastiality, love of Apes, not of the mind/spirit, or philosophy, souless.
N = = Naudiz/Need, When you have no soul, you are needy. Capitalism.
I = Is/I/Ice/Ego - That which seperates oneself from God. Being seperate from God, YOU. Thus, lose of eternal life, going to Nifelhel after death because seperate from God, there is no life/soul. Thus, Is is the cause of death. In Greek, it is Hubris which causes the death of Heros [aryan godment]. They were proud, distanced themselves from Gods (Achilles destroyed a statue of Apollo), being seperate from being (conscious, mana/mind being guided by God), their enemies thus destroyed them. Rune of Einherjar (One War-ior). Those individuals who forsake their I, and give their life to the Ases. Becoming Aseir, they have eternal life. Composed of the highest sp to Fire [Muspel] to Water [Vanes] to Midgard [Man] From water of existence came Rig Hemidall, the first Godi, who gave runes, rites and log/law. Heimdall giving divine rede/rita/log and begettig a godthjod from animal apes, from black age, to semi ape red, to pure Godman, Airyan, Kon Jarl German. So the AIr Gods incarnated and had sex with Apes, gradually breeding a God race of Nobles [Aryans}. Of purity, white, bright, blond, strong, pure, and perfect as their All Father is.
NG = Ing - First Godrace of Ingevones. Man and Women, Airman [IngVe Frey}and AIrwomen [Freya}. The aryan sexual archetypes.
O = Othila - Ancestral property, given authority of a hem by God. A heilag heim where God dwells, Manheim/Midgard between pure transcendent spirit/mana Asgard and pure non -being/ matter Jotunhem.. An Airland, Manheim was built. Gutthiuda and Guths/Guthi/Guds/Gudi.
D = Dagaz - A unit of time smaller then . Life. Brightness rather then Darkness. DAWN. Fire over Ice, Muspelheim over Nifelheim.


___________________



God-Urd-Fire(Muspel)-Expansion-Logos-White-Man (Mind and Holy Spirit, Godthiuda, Holy Nation, Odin/Villi/Ve- Triad aspect of God of Mind, Will, Holiness.
vs
Death - Ice(Nifelheim - Gaschamber) - Contraction-Black-Women (Matter, Materialism, Capitolism, No Mind, no Spirit, no Being (Self Consciousness)


____________________________



Any 'religion' that is preceeded by the blowing of trumpets will fail.
Any 'religion' that is not in-line with the dynamics of its milieu will fail.
Any 'religion' that is some [I]ad monstrum composite of dead or decaying bodies will fail.
".


What is your definition of failure?
My definition is falsehood or a religion which has no power or success for me.

Success or failure has nothing to do with how many people believe in it, wheither other people like it.

Success is giving you god power, or Rune Magn. To become a demi God and live with your aryan ancestors in Asgard and the high abode, Valhol.

This is why Aryan priests (Law of Manu) forbid non Aryans to give the religion. It must be preserved along with the race.


Success is based on who you are. And the religion which is true and sublime and a reflection of God, has the most power. This religion was the religion give by the Rig to the first Aryaman, Kon Jarl. It has the most power, and thus whoever IS IT, has the most success.

Success is not a political or religious conversion. But being the highest form of being/physically/spiritually/ and mentally. And the power must be protected from foreign races which is why you have segregation from non aryans and not giving them Arya Wegaz. Else you would make the foreigner stronger mentally. You see the decline of Aryan nations when they educate and give power to non aryans. This happened in India thousands of years ago, they interbreed with non aryans and thus, there are no aryans in India anymore nor those who practice the Ur Aryan religion as IT WAS and IS.


There is equality as well as unequality. Unequality in the observed world, and equality in Brahman. Of course, pity is for those who do not understand Brahman.
. But democracy is precious and it should rule supreme, the best governing principle, one person, one vote. I will quote a verse from Iqbal, the national poet of Pakistan, before he turned rabid:

What could more unAryan (as per Rig Veda and Law of Manu). You say that you are Aryan and worship the Aryan Gods. Implicitly, you mean you follow or live Arya Dharma. But this is not true, so you are not Aryan at all and your condensation of non Indians who claim to Aryans is ludricous.

Everyone is equal in Brahman.
Why then in the Law of Manu, it is stated that the Aryan priests rule and COME from the mind of God. While the non Aryans come from Purushas Feet and are thus NOT of Brahman. Obviously, ONLY BRAHMINS are from Brahman as the Germanic GODAR are from GOD. The Godar are the offspring of the Ases.

This guy says I should not look at the Law of Manu as if he was Aryan. Yet, can you believe this: He advocates democracy and equality of castes/races. The Law of Manu is about segregation of castes and the aryan caste ruling. You should have been happy (you who think you are aryans) when the Nordic british came to India. This was but a rehashing of history. They even formulated your laws under the Law of Manu as their ancestors did. But you see these dark non Aryans like Gandhi seeking freedom from Aryan British.

Please stop lying and saying you are aryan. I doubt you are of the nordic race and you certainly do not follow Arya Dharma (Law of Manu).

What faith do you actually live with?

I get upset with this when a non Aryan claims to be an aryan and destroys aryan religion by misrepresenting what aryans were and what they believed. Which you have done. This is not Rita, or righteous which is Rede.

Rita is not equality and democracy. Nature creates heirarchy and differentiation of power. There is inequality and Aryanism is about nurturing the better. That of a higher race, culture, spirit, religion. Its not a mass movement, but Ario:


Aristocratic

This is in line with the Rig Veda, Law of Manu, and every other true Aryan religion such as Asatru, Driudism, Greek and Roman religion, et....al.

Aupmanyav
Thursday, January 25th, 2007, 10:13 AM
Airmanarek, yes, the books say that Brahmins are from the mouth of the Purusha, Kshatriyas are from the Chest, Vaishyas from the thighs, and Shudras from the feet. Without any one of these Purusha is incomplete. They also say 'Ekameva Adviteeyam' (Brahman is the only one, there is no second - Ekam=one, eva=only, a-no, dwiteeyam=second). If I considered myself any different from others, I would be transgressing my books. I would not do that for anything in the world. Have a good day.

BTW, I found a reference to another Aupmanyav, a kinsman and a commentator on Vedas. He was a predecessor of another 'nairukta' (those who explained Vedic happenings as result of natural phenomena), Yaaska (700 BC). That means he might have lived around 1000 BC. The other commentators were the 'aitihasikas' (explaining things as history), 'karma daiviya' (Gods attained divinity due to deeds), or 'ajana daiviya' (Gods were born as Gods). I think the elder Aupmanyav would be happy to know that some other Aupmanyav would be interested in Vedas after 3000 years.

Arrian
Friday, January 26th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Arrian. Many centers, OK, we join them to worship Krishna (and Shiva and the mother Goddess, they do not negate that). Geeta may seem christian to you, it is essence of Vedas for us.

A look at any ISKCON pamphlet will tell you the message they print is that there is no difference between realizing Krishna and what is Christ-consciousness, etc. I did not say Gita was christian to me, but I said prabhupada's exegesis of the Gita and his other lectures smell christian to me. I have read better translations.


Hare-Krishnas do not legitimize homosexuality, they may be just as tolerent of it as any normal hindu.

You are right to say, the late Vedic period saw a tolerance of these things, and what probably held some esoteric meaning then, have not only been interpreted but even promoted as a way of life now;
http://www.galva108.org/


A problem can arise if they add a new one or discard an old one.

This is too easy; all they have to do is call themselves an avatar of the old one, and so many 'sages' and 'soothsayers' are now worshipped almost like God. In the name of the old one, its easy to spread false ideas.


Gods were one even in the Vedas, Indra was Agni, Agni was Indra, Vishnu was Surya, and so on, till the list narrowed down to Brahman. There is total equality in Brahman and no differences (that is the best guess at the moment). We will know the properties of Brahman only when science breaks up the riddle of matter/energy/space/time.

I completely disagree with this.
The often quoted saying which is doing so much mischief is from the Rig Veda 1.164.46:

"Speech hath been measured out in four divisions, the Brahmans who have understanding know them.
Three kept in close concealment cause no motion; of speech, men speak only the fourth division.
They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman.
To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan."

This does not mean Agni, Yama, and Matarisvan are all equal in Brahman; only that,
in Brahman, Agni at the most can only be said it is "not this, not this"
in Brahman, Yama at the most can only be said it is "not this, not this"
in Brahman, Matarisvan at the most can only be said it is "not this, not this"

for man's speech partakes of the profane fourth division, while in the other three, nothing definite can be said. Brahman is the indefinite.

Because nothing definite can be said, one precisely and especially cannot speak of any equality in Brahman! Since they all take the form utmost of "not this, not this", to what is One, the sages give many a title. And who are these sages? They are the Brahmans who have the understanding of Speech being measured out in four divisions - the profane + the other three, where the utmost realization leads them to only say at the most, it is "not this, not this".

Also, I came across an Atharva Veda saying,
"He is the one, the one alone,
in Him all deities become One alone."
- Again to me, this doesn't mean all things become equal in Brahman, but meaning, in Brahman, all things reach a state of no motion; what profane speech can say at the most is that, in that state, all things become One-alone like the One. In their indefiniteness, they are one with the Indefinite one himself.

See Brihad Vedanta, 1.6.


Kindly give me some reference of the three kinds of fires, off-hand, I am not able to get your meaning.

Chandogya Vedanta, 6.4.


About Crusadewatch, it is certainly a momentary problem. Governments come and go, and rules keep on changing.

I perceive it as a very serious and threatening problem for your country, and exactly because whatever governments come or go, makes no difference to them. They operate anti-nationally under the badge of "secular freedom".


Of one thing I am sure, Hindu/Aryan India would never be cruel.

Goodness belongs and can only belong to Strong people. If goodness makes men weak, that goodness [read Tolerance] is poison.


The Law of Manu is a reflection of truth of preservation of the higher race. Which is why there is segregation.

And the point of this segregation was not to be isolationist, but for a more effective expansion. By introducing tiers, the caste-system could acculturate the native people and extend rule over them, while each class could develop into a separate type/sub-type altogether. The Manu Law was about expansion and preservation of the higher race through accomodation of the native-population of the territories it conquered. That's how those territories were seeded.


It also reflects the truth that the better should be valued over the lesser.

It reflects the truth every nature has its own usefulness and how best this can be tapped for an overall advantage - the flourishing of the nation as a whole. This truth was reflected in the hierarchy. Because the heart is placed above the liver does not mean the liver is less better, but only that the liver would be less better placed in that position of the heart, if you get my meaning.


Aryan law is ultimately about purity and preservation.

Aryan law is about how best and close it can synchronize with Life, which is another word for growth - between cosmic law and the Law that the evolving Self creates in its own name. This involves the task of giving self-direction and direction - therefore Leadership.


Preservation of divine Godlaw and racial purity and preservation. Both are intertwined because of the monism of mind and body. Both the mind and body must be pure. Thus a Aryan Godi, must be only with the highest racial caste, which is nordic, of pure blood/spirit/mind.

I agree, but I will also add, Life stirs in dirt and contamination.
To grow a little, one necessarily has to be willing to sacrifice this static state of absolute purity. Without movement, there is stagnation and death. One must reach a state of such internal strength, that even a little assimilation cannot and should not do harm. As Nietzsche points out, the Greeks were such an example. The important thing is knowing this capacity - how much and what kind one can take in and where to stop. I am not promoting race-mixing, but its the way of Life. Every Growth calls for a sacrifice.


So the Law of Manu was about organizing the new territory from chaos of two races, aryans and sudra/dasysus within an aryan religious structure which is always been about segregation due to the truth of inequality of substance (see Plato).

That's what I said.


The RV race hatred is a hatred of the foreign which is defiled and less pure than Nordics. The superior looking down on the inferior.

The RV hatred is a hatred of the foreign that refused to share a vision of a common destiny, because they lacked this inner-rhythm in their blood, and this hatred included many Vedic aryans themselves. There are hymns that speak of protection from both kin and foe.
While on the other hand, Rudra was absorbed in the name of the local god Shiva, etc.


Whereas the non aryan races tend value equality (see non aryan hinduism, jesusism).

True.


Never forget that their drive is largely due to an o inferiority complex and wanting to have sex with aryan women who are better looking then the dark women.

Yes, even I believe they are filled with ressentiment against the fair race.


Non whites are not as mental a race, and view life as gaining pleasure and avoiding pain, thus being driven by the lowest race on a purely sexual impulse.

While its true, unfortunately this can also be said about much of our post-Socratic philosophy in the white-world; so I would re-phrase that as Non-Aryans.

Airmanareiks
Friday, January 26th, 2007, 10:40 PM
BTW, I found a reference to another Aupmanyav, a kinsman and a commentator on Vedas. He was a predecessor of another 'nairukta' (those who explained Vedic happenings as result of natural phenomena), Yaaska (700 BC). That means he might have lived around 1000 BC. I think the elder Aupmanyav would be happy to know that some other Aupmanyav would be interested in Vedas after 3000 years.


Just because you have the same name does'nt mean anything. Like a Mexican Jesus and the Jewish Jesus.

All right. You say you are desceded from Brahmins. Implicitly, you mean that you are aryan and I am not because you can trace your ancestry to an aryan in India and I cannot.

1) At one point, that nordic Indian aryan had sex with a non aryan and you are actually non aryan. Much like a white man, lets say George Washington having sex with a black slave women and having a mulatto. Then the mulatto Washingtons having sex with other blacks . This black Washington ancestor would say he is decsended from George Washington and I am not. In reality, me and washinton would be the same race and the dark Washington would not. Even worse, this dark Washington does not even follow Arya Dharma but follows a non aryan religion.

This form is of people of Germanic ancestry. I have a problem in that I gave Aryanism to a non aryan (nordic) unless you can prove otherwise like posting your real/current picture on your avatar which shows your nordic features.

What Belongs to Aryan Metaphysics?

1) That which is Aryan, belongs to the aryan race. Nordic

2) That which is line with the aryan weltanschuang.


Aupamanvey, says that only Indians are aryans and non Indians are not entitled to Aryan metaphysics. Non of your post show aryan metaphysics but contrary, non aryan egalitarian metaphysics of equality and race mixture and democracy.

To a more positive light.

Democracy.

When is democracy aryan.

Democracy is aryan when is among equals. Democracy is only valid in an aristocracy.

The greek democracy only allowed the wealthy greeks to vote. Even jesuit american, first only have White landholders the right to vote.

Democracy only works within an aristocractic caste.
Why?
Because a democracy needs an intelligent poplulace.
Here is what a democracy needs from voters:

Intelligence
Frugality, not seeking self interest and pleasure ala the masses of the roman empire.
Voting for the common interest which can only happen when the people are the same.

In a stupid society, people are too stupid to vote. In a multi racial society, whatever race is the majority gets most of the benefits and harmony is not acheived ala the cast system. Taking Platos view, If the bronze race is the majority, it will destroy the Gold race, e.g. communism. If the Gold race predominates, then society will generally be fine, like America in the past, because the people are generally smart and meet the pre requistes of a wise governement.

So Democracy is aryan only within an aryan caste or aryan nation when the racial quality has hit its maxium. An aristocracy or theocracy is the way to bring up the level by favoring the best (aristos) over the masses (plebs).



Aryan law is about how best and close it can synchronize with Life, which is another word for growth - between cosmic law and the Law that the evolving Self creates in its own name. This involves the task of giving self-direction and direction - therefore Leadership.

.


Aryan man or Manu is Purusha. Where the Brahmins are Brahma and Brahmins rule which is Rita. The Nordic Brahmins were racially pure compared to the dark races who were closer to the dirty Apes. The Brahmins were also smarter. In Aryanism, God is Mind, cosmic thought, or rita or Heraclitian Logos which is Right/Rita/Rede thought. Brahma is Dyaus Pitar which means God Father. This Zio or Zeus or Ju- Pitar is the God Father and begettor of Aryaman or Aryans. This is Rig or ultimately Odin which means possessed in Gothic. Odin is the mind with Thought (Hugin) and Memory (Munin). Thus, God's offspring are Gods, or Gutthiuda and his priests are Godi. So Aryan metaphysics always valued the Aryan and its self rule or freedom. It also value eugenics and breeding to perfection which is the Aryan archetypes ( Frey/Lord and Freya/Lady which is Aryaman and Aryawomen). Aryanism is about the purpose of life which is upward evolution to perfection:

Mind
Body

which becomes the spirit.

Never completely obtained, but he more perfect, the more God is incarnate and the world changes from Erd, the Manheim, which is Aryaman-heim. The abode of Gutthiuda which is what Goths called their home. The further you go back in Germanic and Aryan religion the more you see this.

With foreign rule/religion/ethics, you see the degeneration of the world from spirit to matter and gradually to stupidity, ugless, and debachery until the world implodes. The key for actually aryans is to be away from the implosion and their suicide so that Aryanism can rise from the ashes - post Ragnarok. The key is to not aid non aryans, but build aryanism from within as a fortress, growing spiritually, intellectually, racially. This is done through isolation/segregation which is where a seperate language is necessary. In the Law of Manu, of course, you have it right. Only teach true aryans. Those that would not destroy the Law.

It is better to die then to sow the Veda on barren ground.

For if you sow it on bad ground (non nordics or those who do not follow aryanism, (jesuits, non racists), when they get the power, they will use it against you, thus being an enemy of God.

Carl
Friday, January 26th, 2007, 11:02 PM
I do think it is fundamentally in error to say that "Aryan = Nordic". Anyway, both terms are somewhat dated - you should check out the anthropology sections to become informed. The original IE (IndoEuropean) groups split up long ago - the IndoIranian went south, various IE elements came west. That which is Germanic incubated in the north long before Roman times. The entire Celtic civilization covered central Europe from c 700BCE. Only later did the Celtic and Germanic begin to fuse - the Celtic in Germany being progressively absorbed . But the North stayed Germanic and that's where the lore of Odinn gradually emerge. Unless you too want to mix hopelessly with the south and be lost , it is to the northlands that you should return, to your own folk and their Gods , to your own roots and northern metaphysics. It is the north that cries out for Salvation.... fighting in the south is of no great value in these times.

Airmanareiks
Friday, January 26th, 2007, 11:28 PM
I already have. I am Odinist. But I am Ur Germanic or Aryan.
Mixing with the South? Of course they split up.

It rebuilding or completing the full Ur Aryan religion before they split up.

I have rebuilt it to the extent that the Rig Edda and Law of Manus is greater then an previous aryan religion to date.

Odin is the Ur Aryan All father who name changed with the expansion of nordics south.

I am using Aryan as Nordic as in PIE or Ur aryan times of the first homeland. The first aryan was Kon Jarl, who was blond. The inherietor of Aryan religion from Rig Heimdall probably 10,000 years ago.

Nordics were Greek Dorians who started philosophy. Nordic were Roman aristocractic caste descended from Romus/Remus which is Germanic Tuisto.

So I am refering to the proto Aryans who were Nordic, descended from Jupitar/Zeus/Zio/Dyaus. Blond and white, living in the northern Aryan homeland, where the sun rarely shines.

The time of my religion is about 10,000 BCE well before Vedism, before the divergence of Celts and Germans, Greeks, Arya, Romans, Thracians, Tocharians, etc........

Its before civilization, thus more brutal and hard then the soft religions of pacifistic people, thus offense to modernity.

Aupmanyav
Saturday, January 27th, 2007, 11:56 AM
What ISKCON says in a christian milleu is hardly relevant, you said you have seen better translations of Geeta and I agree. GALVA seems to be another ISKCON attempt to woo gay christians. Gays also have the same right to hold religious views as any other people. There are nine avataras of Vishnu and the tenth comes after 427,000 years, there cannot be any more. Both 'many Gods' and 'one Brahman' are approved by Vedas, I agree to both. You are right, we recognize that many things are done under the guise of 'secular freedom'. RSS and its political wing, Bharatiya Janata Party work against that kind of misuse. What I meant was that we can be surgical but not cruel. What has to be done, has to be done.

Airmanareiks, I have been raised in Aryan tradition and I am a hindu. I am not Nordic or German. I never claimed that Indian only are Aryans, there might be many in Central Asia and Iran who have forgotten their heritage; and there might be others in Europe also. I am not against non-hindus trying to understand hindu philosophy. At the moment we have democracy, and I believe nothing else can work as well. RigVeda, I believe, is pre-glacial; and has origins in Arctic Circle.

fms panzerfaust
Wednesday, January 31st, 2007, 06:32 AM
I already have. I am Odinist. But I am Ur Germanic or Aryan.
Mixing with the South? Of course they split up.

It rebuilding or completing the full Ur Aryan religion before they split up.

I have rebuilt it to the extent that the Rig Edda and Law of Manus is greater then an previous aryan religion to date.

Odin is the Ur Aryan All father who name changed with the expansion of nordics south.

I am using Aryan as Nordic as in PIE or Ur aryan times of the first homeland. The first aryan was Kon Jarl, who was blond. The inherietor of Aryan religion from Rig Heimdall probably 10,000 years ago.

Nordics were Greek Dorians who started philosophy. Nordic were Roman aristocractic caste descended from Romus/Remus which is Germanic Tuisto.

So I am refering to the proto Aryans who were Nordic, descended from Jupitar/Zeus/Zio/Dyaus. Blond and white, living in the northern Aryan homeland, where the sun rarely shines.

The time of my religion is about 10,000 BCE well before Vedism, before the divergence of Celts and Germans, Greeks, Arya, Romans, Thracians, Tocharians, etc........

Its before civilization, thus more brutal and hard then the soft religions of pacifistic people, thus offense to modernity.

No way. Odinism is a later religion. Before odinism Wodanaz divided his sovereign with Tiwaz, also called Tyr or Ziu and identified with Zeus.

Read this book: Mitra-Varuna, by Georges Dumézil. It's very informative about the duality inside the first caste.

Also read this book: Revolt Against the Modern World, by Julius Evola. There he explains about the doctrine of the four ages. Its very valuable information.

Most of the odinists base themselves in the Edda, especially the Havamal. Some of them reject the Roman world entirely and are even hostile to it, no matter if the romans were aryans like them.

And I personally dont consider the roman aristocrats "nordic", no matter if in the racial classifications they are termed nordic. The roman aristocracy is just what it is: roman.

Damn, there are even people trying to germanize the persians, so that they look more nordic. The persians formed a great civilization in the past, and no, no and no, they werent nordish! And if we let this people go more far, theyll start saying that the chinese were nordic...

You are confusing Indo European Paganism with Odinism. IE Paganism is much more spiritual and symbolic than its later manifestations. These later forms are more based in myths, because was the only way to pass the knowledge of the high castes to the people. And there are diferent versions of myths. Some years ago I loosed myself in comparative mythology, today I prefer to look at the numen first.

But if you prefer to put Wotan as Uranos, go ahead, but call it something different, perhaps Uranic Germanism, because in common sense odinism is based on the Eddas. There are some odinists who see Odin as a historic figure too, that lived at some age in the past. This is the same method apllied by christians to their Christ, to historicize the myth, perhaps to get a broader audience.

Carl
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 01:50 PM
Well Mr Panzerfaust! - your reading of history sounds to me a lot more accurate ! But you are not a wild eyed Priest, I surmise .... with a highly inventive imagination. Otherwise you too might enter into these other , more rarified notions. But I myself don't care to mess up too much the olden texts.... nor to mix them up with the faiths of other people - even if they were once perhaps 'Aryan' of origin. The North should protect the northern soul by thinking North! - if one wanders too far ( air-wise) , one is in danger of forgetting the things that matter.........:-O .

Airmanareiks
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 07:14 PM
I am Aryan or an Aryanist. Odinisn, Druidism, Arya Dharma, Greek, Roman, Thracian, etc........are all part of Aryanism.

You thought you were teaching me, but I have already read these books years ago and have since surpassed their scholarship which metaphysical truth. Aryanism is a religion. That is, I see the truth or ontology behind the "myths". Not all of the writers of myths and Aryan priests/philosophers were equal in their ontological acumen. If you know how to read the Myths you see the truth. This is like knowing how to read the Runes. Not everyone knows how to read the Runes. Nor are all the individual myths created equal.

Dumezil, in Mitra Varuna equates Aryan sovereignty to Tuisto or the Dual Aspects which he finds a duality of Being (which is actual Dyaus Pitar which Dumezil misses). One is the magician, the other is the law/judge. My view completes Dumezils view:

Neomena - Odin/Mind
Phenomena - Tyr/Irminsul/Logos/Rede/Rita/Karma/Justice

I call Mind/Odin in matter: ORMUL, or sentient matter which is a material form of ORLOG. Thus thjod derived from God who are Wods (possessed) with Huginn/Munnin and have innate rede/logos which is Matter that is connected to the All Vater (avatars). Its genetic because it is material and the CORRECT right/rede combination of chemicals (DNA) alters the correct combination of IDEAS. Both chemicals and ideals are RUNES given to you by ODIN/MIND/GOD.

The Unity of Aryan God is Dyaus Pitar which means God Father (Ju-Pitar, Zeus, Germanic Zio fader). The true nature of God as Neomena is Wods which is Mind.

I hope this clears Dumezil up!

Mind to Matter

Odin Mind - (Jarls/Nobles/Blonds) Diar/Druid
Willi Will Thorn - (Carls/Red) - Warriors
Ve Holy/Frey/Lord - Ingevones - (Thralls/Black) Ing Ve Frey - Fecundity

The materialistic aspect of God, God in phenomenal form is Aryaman, the Nordics/Jarls who odin taught the runes, war and gave odal lands to.

fms panzerfaust
Wednesday, February 7th, 2007, 06:43 PM
I was not teaching you, just clearing the definitions.