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Boche
Sunday, December 31st, 2006, 01:57 PM
EDIT: I just moved this from the thread about Saddam Hussein's execution, as I thought it would be of interest for those ignorant about the present status of American military presence in Germany [like me]. Oswiu



He is no victim - and this US-Israeli imperialism does only exist in your phantasies.

Yes right, the excessive occupations of more and more countries and indoctrinating of western ideas is also only phantasy right?


It's the Germans themselves taking away any sort of pride and self-esteem. I met many Americans - they were not happy to see Germany this depressed.

As children, the school and the society affects you alot, you only realize how they humilated them later on.



It's not the Americans teaching all this crap, it's the German leftist-liberals.

I agree partly on that. But the media ideas and the "morality" values come straight of the USAmerican media.



Then you are not alone - but what made them come here? Have you though about that - Freethinker?

Their gouverment, not "we".



It would be a new thing when occupiers would have less than more rights.

It's not about less rights. It's about that they have more rights than the folk itself. And the war is since 61 years over. So what's the reason to still occupy us? Care to explain?


With the rest i can agree on.



Gruß,
Svartr

Jäger
Sunday, December 31st, 2006, 02:15 PM
I agree partly on that. But the media ideas and the "morality" values come straight of the USAmerican media.
Not only that, after the war all big media CEOs and political party leaders were appointed by the Allies, mainly Americans (in the west that is), which they choose after their political "leftist-liberal" orientation.
Of course this tradition keeps on working, it is just normal that one would want a successor similar in beliefs.
They eradicated any nationalistic opposition, then free speech and freedom of the press is easy to grant. How could such small papers compete with allied backed Springer Verlag and shit?

The multi-culture lovers in high positions are a side effect of these politics.


It's not about less rights. It's about that they have more rights than the folk itself. And the war is since 61 years over. So what's the reason to still occupy us? Care to explain?
Funny thing is, they actually promised to leave to Poland, or somewhere east, to "New-Europe", in my home city they all started to think about plans for the soon to be empty barracks etc.
TV-Shows everywhere how small local shops might suffer etc.

What now? These guys are still here, no one left, my grandma is now constantly bitching over them, like "I told you" :D

Aptrgangr
Sunday, December 31st, 2006, 08:19 PM
He did?
Yes.


Don´t worry, as long as they didn´t introduce bullshit like democracy there, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
I am not worried. I am not responsible for what they did. And the one having been involved in massmurder and crimes against humanity has been hung in Bohemia.




Yes right, the excessive occupations of more and more countries and indoctrinating of western ideas is also only phantasy right?
I do not see an excessive occupation, I see widespread anti-Americanism, be it in Germany, GB or elsewhere. Of course, those protesters do not hesitate to wear American clothing and eating at certain American fast-food stores after having protested American cultural imperialism and burning American flags...


As children, the school and the society affects you alot, you only realize how they humilated them later on.
This babbling at school never impressed me much. I origin of leftist-liberal parents, I never have been taught to think independent. I studied reality and drew conclusions. The only thing I regret is I stood up too late at school, in the last year at high-school I boycotted lessons for one than one time!


I agree partly on that. But the media ideas and the "morality" values come straight of the USAmerican media.
Since you seem to be an expert with issue you sure have an explaination why there is widespread refusal of American "values", "moral" and wars in German TV. How benfit Jews of reports of Israeli crimes in Palestine and Lebanon?


Their gouverment, not "we".
Interesting, so the US government just decided to invade Germany in the early 40s or what?


It's not about less rights. It's about that they have more rights than the folk itself.
When it comes to less rights it automatically includes someone has more rights since we are not debating about equal rights.


And the war is since 61 years over.
Yes and No. De facto a peace-treaty never has been subscribed.


So what's the reason to still occupy us?
To make us open the gates for Muslim immigrants, collect Hulk Hogan stickers and eat tons of hamburgers.


Care to explain?
It's part of their geostrategical concept. Since SU collapsed most troops have been withdrawn anyway.
The wors thing is the Germans have their minds occupied. A strong moral boycotts patroling GIs here and pays scorn to them.



What's the deal with that? I didn't mention the Jews in the above post. Not to mention I'm not a friend of conspiracy theories.
You started with stating crap like Saddam Hussein had babies for breakfast. Since I know the typical conspiracy theories I just wanted to post a persiflage.


Do you post on this board to badmouth nationalists and their beliefs,
I never did. Read more carfully.


and to show us how ~wrong~ we are when we expose Jewish crimes against gentiles? Well, good luck with that
You want to tell me you are a nationalist? What makes you being a nationalist?
Show me just one quote of me where I stated I agree with Jewish crimes.


This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time! Nice to see the terrorists got Saddam, eh?
They are terrorists? I read about noble Iraqi resistance fighters all the time.


They hanged him instead of beheading him, but is there any doubt the executioners are in the same business?
Your lack of knowledge and education is symptomatic.
It's not the Shiite militias beheading people - not that their death squadrons would be nice people though. It's the Sunni Arab insurgents spreading the most terror --- thet the Shiite response would not be just prayers does not surprise me.


And Iran is celebrating!!!
Of course they do. they had to suffer much, including attackst with chemical weapons.


The Islamic fundamentalists Saddam oppressed are celebrating!
Of course tehy do. Saddam Hussein started his career as atheistic and secular dictator - ending up as Sunni-wananbee fundamentalist. They never believed he was a real Muslim despite he made pilgrimages to Shiah shrines.


This is a huge victory for the terrorists.
Is it? So at once Iranians are terrorists, despite they oppose ZOG imperialism?
I think it is gratification for those having lost their children, wifes etc. pp.


Oh, I forgot, it only matters that Saddam got what he "deserved" for his "crimes"
Murderes have to be hung, no matter of gender, age, race and so on.

Haldís
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 01:36 AM
Funny thing, Aptrangrs ancestors are Allied occupation soldiers. ;)so he knows both sides and could come to an unbiased and informed opinion. ;)

Haldís
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 02:11 AM
It's not about less rights. It's about that they have more rights than the folk itself. And the war is since 61 years over. So what's the reason to still occupy us? Care to explain? Germany ain't occupied any longer (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=729466). it is fully sovereign since 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement_With_Resp ect_to_Germany). i agree that the U.S. should leave and germany should get its own nuclear arms but let's not play naive and pretend that America is occupying or running germany because you don't like the policies or decisions of your gov't. Like Poland, Italy, Turkey or Saudi Arabia Germany permits American bases on its soil... this does not mean it is still occupied.

Haldís
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 02:26 AM
Impossible. Reason: to controled my western media. The U.S. doesn't run the western media... it also doesn't run the german media.


I could tell alot of horror stories by me and family concerning american occupants back in 45 and nowadays. everybody knows horror stories from the war. war is always a horror and a tragedy. it's time that we move on and stop hating and fighting each other because of our gov'ts.... all our gov'ts have been hijacked by traitors, and mine long before yours.

if the U.S. troops left Germany tomorrow nothing would change. you would still be stuck with the same government, the same media, the same system, the same liberals and socialists in power... they aren't American or run by America.

Æmeric
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 02:37 AM
You should take a visit to the territories in germany where americans have their own villages and military around, with their own malls and shops and restaurants - where you are NOT allowed as german to buy there, since they ask you for your american ID card.

I assume your talking about military housing compounds & shopping centers. They have them here in America also, they're restricted to Military personal & their dependents, not the local civilian population. I remember the benefit of using the Navy Exchange in San Diego (where I had to show my military ID card) is that there was no California or local sales tax charged on purchases. There's probably the same tax advantage for the local American families using the US Military Base stores in Germany which is probably why the FRG government doesn't want the locals using it.

Haldís
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 02:45 AM
Of corpse.... err of course you're not running our politics "literally".

And NO, Germany has its "Constitution" made by the occupants. The german folk still has not it's own Constitution. So basically we're controlled by the occupants which would be the US-Americans. Germans could enact a new constitution at any time.... the germans discussed this in the early 90's.... they decided to carry on with the "basic law" for the time being but that was their own decision, not the decision of America.... the German liberals and socialists thought it served them well.... Germans could at any time give themselves another constitution... there are no institutions of "occupants" interfering with German lawmaking or law enforcement and there are also no allied control institutions.... what you state is simply not correct.

Haldís
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 03:25 AM
Read my post again please, would you enjoy it going to a city in the USA and want to buy something and then they ask you for a german ID Card, else you can't buy it?
Or american military police stopping you as german, know that you're german but expect from you to talk fluent english and call you "Kraut" all the time.
Then you know what would change. Should we also start talking about all the americans here who take german girls and make them pregnant and later they go back to the USA or Iraq and don't care about the woman and leave them behind. Also rapings of german women by US Soldiers aren't rare anymore.

I'm not against americans. But they should stay where they belong. i agree with you, Svatr. i think germany should become a self-conscious player on the international stage. it should leave, cancel or renegotiate the treaties, ask america to withdraw its troops and get its own nuclear arsenal. :)

but all U.S. bases in germany exist because of bilateral and multilateral treaties (eg NATO).... ie because the german gov't wants the U.S. presence in Germany. it even pays for it... i lived for almost 5 years in germany and many germans do not want nuclear arms or a strong German army (most thought i am nuts to suggest it :D) because they are still suffering from a Hitler complex. they are afraid of a strong and independent germany... they are afraid of themselves... many are so liberal and pacifist that they do not want to have any military in fact.

so this is a german problem.... it's a problem the germans have to solve... they must develop a healthy patriotism again and get a gov't that acts in the best interest of its people.... but Germany is not occupied any longer... the germans can at any time decide that they do no longer want U.S. bases on their soil (as the French did)... and as the germans did in the case of the Russian troops. it's just the policy of today's German gov't to be a model pupil in the NATO and to cooperate closely with america....

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 03:26 AM
The German Army actually has at least one base in the USA. I have been to it. It is just north of Los Angeles in an industrial area. I was lost and just walked in to ask for directions. I was told I was on a German military base. I just kept talking, hoping to get directions. It was not a large place and probably used for some purposes of equipment. This cannot possibly compare with the American military bases in Germany.

Haldís
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 03:36 AM
No we can't and that's the point of it. You think our folk has anything to say? Our politicans are crawling into american politicans A.. .
Also our gouverment is to daunted, so it's impossible. It's the gov't your people vote for... ours isn't much better, Israel whistles and we obey... so you have a bad gov't (like we) and ignorant people that keep on voting for it (like we) but you aren't occupied... you are making your own bed.

Oswiu
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 03:41 AM
Before this gets a bit too 'yes it is' 'no it isn't' ;), I wonder if our German members could first of all inform us of the general nature of the phenomenon and its impact on life there?

And if anyone's got a better idea for the thread title [perhaps I could have put a question mark on it?], please tell me - I did it in a bit of a rush, and am not as sober as I could be ['Tis New Year, after all :)].

Æmeric
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 03:52 AM
The Germans could force the American miltary out if it wanted to. Libya expelled the USAF out of Wheeler AFB in the 60's. France expelled US military forces under De Gaulle. The Phillippines expelled the US military from Clark AFB & the Subic Bay Naval Station in the early 90's. For whatever reason the German government wants the US military to remain in Germany.

There are alot of American who don't approve of American military bases in foreign countries. The feeling is we are paying for the defense of other nations.

Æmeric
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 04:30 AM
The German Air Force maintains a Tactical Training Center at Holloman AFB in Alamogordo, New Mexico:
The first contingent of Tornado aircraft arrived at Holloman in March 1996. More than 300 German Air Force members are permanently assigned at Holloman to the TTC - the only unit of its kind in the United States. The German Air Force Flying Training Center activated 31 March with German Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Portz and US Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Ryan present. The Luftwaffe has since kept up to 800 personnel at Holloman for training exercises, due to limited traing space in Europe.On 29 September, 1999, two Luftwaffe Tornado's crashed near Marathon Indian Basin, about 15 miles northwest of Carlsbad, New Mexico. The crash details were kept quiet from the America public, as the crash was investigated under Luftwaffe jurisdiction. Subsequent questioning of the authorities revealed that a training agreement existed between the United States and various foreign national governments post World War II. I bet those German Air Force personnel based at Holloman get to shop at the base exchanges that are off limits to the local civilian population.:~(

Maybe Svartr should enlist in the German Luftwaffe & volunteer for duty at Holloman AFB.:thumbup

Zyklop
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 08:00 AM
Purpose of the NATO:
"To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down." ~ Lord Ismay, Nato’s first Secretary General quoted in "Die Welt" May 2001

Jäger
Monday, January 1st, 2007, 11:34 AM
... let's not play naive and pretend that America is occupying or running germany because you don't like the policies or decisions of your gov't.
As I said before, it is most likely the case that I don't like the decisions of my government because of allied "liberation".
It is understandable, and maybe even came out of good will, but America reigns through their vassals they put into power post-war.
Another thing to keep in mind is that just because one wants something it doesn't mean it works 100% (everyone who worked on projects should know that :D ), so we can just consider the facts.


The German Air Force maintains a Tactical Training Center at Holloman AFB in Alamogordo, New Mexico
Yes, Nato makes it possible, there are even German bases in England ;)
Yet, America has 75,000 soldiers on German soil, Germany under 1,000 in the US. And it is not that the Americans would train here, something they couldn't do in their homeland, like the Germans have it with the air force base, they are just here for a base to start attacking other countries.


I wonder if our German members could first of all inform us of the general nature of the phenomenon and its impact on life there?
As stated before there are roughly 75,000 soldiers in Germany, they have their own land where they built little villages, which they keep secured.
Then they go out get drunk and buy at local shops some stuff (the ones who don't get drunk don't go out as it seems) that's the main interaction with the general population.
Politically the bases are part of the NATO pact, and used for "peace keeping" measures, if Germany e.g. says "We don't want any air traffic which is directed to Iraq" then America says "OK it won't happen", and then they just do it without consequences :)

The thing with air traffic is another good example of how such things work, it seems a newspaper actually brought it in the media, so either they were serious or they wanted to pretend "balance", but let's say they were serious, as I said just because people want something to happen (total control of the media etc.) it is almost certain it doesn't work 100%, better would be to look at the consequences: a little court walk, silence ... nothing.

Haldís
Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 02:00 AM
Purpose of the NATO:
"To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down." ~ Lord Ismay, Nato’s first Secretary General quoted in "Die Welt" May 2001you can be sure that there will always be somebody who tries to settle things with an obscure quotation of an aging anti-German private individual... or perhaps one should understand it correctly? what could he have meant? how does the Nato keep Germany "down"?

"Down" as in making it impossible that Germany conquers Europe? yes.... but not only Germany, also every other member state. and germans do not want to do that in any case. what makes you think that Nato membership is disadvantageous to Germany? why is it bad to be a member of a military alliance formed by north america and western, northern and central europe which provides mutual assistance in case of an attack? :scratch


It is understandable, and maybe even came out of good will, but America reigns through their vassals they put into power post-war. the post-war gov't was not put into power by America, but the German people elected it among parties that were approved by the US, the UK and France... so America was only one of the powers and the Germans could elect the "vassals"... Communists and radical nationalists were in the beginning not permitted, true, but there is also no indication that they had much support among the general population.... certainly not enough to come to power. or do you deny this? since the 50's and 60's the germans could have (founded and) voted for nationalist parties (like the NPD) but they voted for the christian democrats and socialists instead.... the german people elected their gov't, there were no "vassals" put into power by the allies or America... until the mid or late 60's these parties were also not anti-german, the economy blossomed, there was a baby boom, and the situation improved, that's why they had the support of the german people and the germans didn't want Nazis or Communists in power.... there was also no immigration wave... i think a big change came with the student protests in 1968 but behind them was not America but Marxist and leftist subversion.... and it was Marxist germans (and local jews) that carried it, not America.... the situation is really not as simple as many german nationalists like to portray it.... to state the FRG gov't are America's vassals is simply wrong.

and for how long do you want to blame America? WW2 is over for more than 60 years.... if germans in a 100 or 200 years vote for a gov't you don't like will it still be America's fault because we removed the Nazis after WW2 from power? i stated it already but this attitude is reminiscent to developing countries that since the 50's and 60's blame all their current failures to colonialism.... we all can only laugh about such statements, as we should.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 04:54 AM
OK, I'll be selfish. The tax rate in most Western countries is about the same. But, you guys get health care, better infastructure. We get to spend our money on a military. American troops in Germany, why? Is America protecting Germany from somebody, France or Belgium perhaps? In their last war, Germany did alright in defending itself as I recall. Why should we continue to spend money treating wayward young whites, let alone negroids and mestizos, to a 13 month vacation in Germany?

Zyklop
Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 09:57 AM
the german people elected their gov'tSince when do you approve democracy? You seem to lack the basic understanding of how the masses operate.

The 'people' are nothing else than what they are ordered to be. If you convince them their highest good would be "honor" they will follow you into war, if you tell them it´s "personal freedom" they will accept any form of decadence imaginable, if you tell them it´s "safety" they will accept total surveillance. Only a marginally small fraction of people is able to think for themselves, 99% of a population just follow their conditioning and that goes for any people at any time in history. There never was any successful system or revolt that was not started by smart people with a profound understanding of mass psychology and how to manipulate it to serve their own agenda.

The problem in Germany is not what kind of decisions the people could have made, it´s that they were allowed to make decisions at all after being fed with allied propaganda and re-education. They were manipulated into believing giving up their culture would benefit them and the economic boom apparently confirmed this. That´s the reason why they clinged to the superpowers occupying them and parroted the American way of life.
The naivity of the masses knows no limits, you can even convince them their membership in a military alliance is for their own security and not to strengthen the geostrategical position of their superiors and to give them an excuse to stay.
"(NATO) was created not as most people think to defend against the Soviet military threat. The French didn't even mention the Soviet Union in the debate for it. They wanted NATO to deal with the German question. The British wanted NATO to keep the U.S. in Europe."
Lieutenant General William Odom in a NBC interview aired April 24, 1999
If you don´t believe in American hegemony over Germany (or Europe already) you should do a google search for the terms Echelon and industrial espionage or cia prisons for a start.

The root of evil (i.e. democracy) was introduced here by occupation laws and it´s maintained up to this day by US propaganda instruments. As long as we don´t shake them off or find a way to position ourselves in their distribution channels, every effort to reestablish our culture will be futile.

Jäger
Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 10:22 AM
the post-war gov't was not put into power by America, but the German people elected it among parties that were approved by the US, the UK and France... so America was only one of the powers and the Germans could elect the "vassals"...
America played the leading role here, besides America, France and the UK did put officials into power, because the war ended in 1945 and the first elections were 1949.
In 1949 a man who was not only backed but encouraged by Americans to create a new party reigned for 14 years.
Which brings us to:


Communists and radical nationalists were in the beginning not permitted, true, but there is also no indication that they had much support among the general population.... certainly not enough to come to power.
Half true, polls indicated that the SPD would win with quite a head margin, which was much more "left" than today back then, yet the CDU won the first election. Now we can dispute the correctness of late 40s polls, but well this would make your statement invalid anyway.


... or do you deny this? since the 50's and 60's the germans could have (founded and) voted for nationalist parties (like the NPD) but they voted for the christian democrats and socialists instead....
I think you are aware of the problem of unfair competition and unequal opportunities, especially when the media is pretty one sided, don't you think we have a similar problem nowadays? I wonder where this comes from ...


the german people elected their gov't, there were no "vassals" put into power by the allies or America...
As I said, if you put up vassals with an unfair advantage in the elections, it is enough to bring them into power, it is the same today. Furthermore it should be noted that the allied focus was much more on the media, because they don't get elected anyway!


until the mid or late 60's these parties were also not anti-german, the economy blossomed, there was a baby boom, and the situation improved, that's why they had the support of the german people and the germans didn't want Nazis or Communists in power....
True, an advantage of former times who leaked into this time. I agree with Spjabork who said that he doesn't think outside the party of the NSDAP there were any true NS over 20. Reeducation takes time :)


there was also no immigration wave... i think a big change came with the student protests in 1968 but behind them was not America but Marxist and leftist subversion....
Yes, true too, America is not solely to blame for sure, I never did, it just seems you play their role down too much.


to state the FRG gov't are America's vassals is simply wrong.
Some more some less, their deeds don't show much independence though. Maybe just the "Zeitgeist" ?


and for how long do you want to blame America? WW2 is over for more than 60 years.... if germans in a 100 or 200 years vote for a gov't you don't like will it still be America's fault because we removed the Nazis after WW2 from power?
This is a bit strange to me, if someone did something wrong in my eyes, he will be always to be blamed for that. There is no lapse of time for that. Yet I am well aware to differentiate between the America 100 years ago and today, sadly it got worse. If it gets better I won't blame "current" America.


i stated it already but this attitude is reminiscent to developing countries that since the 50's and 60's blame all their current failures to colonialism.... we all can only laugh about such statements, as we should.
I don't blame all and everything on America, her role in this game is obvious though, as it is with colonialism.

And I have to repeat, even if America wants something this doesn't mean it works 100%, but the tendency of their intentions and actions is evident.

Pervitinist
Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 11:04 AM
It's the gov't your people vote for... ours isn't much better, Israel whistles and we obey... so you have a bad gov't (like we) and ignorant people that keep on voting for it (like we) but you aren't occupied... you are making your own bed.

Whether some people like it or not, you're largely right about this.

Germany is no longer occupied by a foreign power. The US – Zionist entanglements notwithstanding – has more urgent problems today than to keep Germany occupied. A national German government could easily negotiate a US withdrawal. When Germany would use its natural position as a mediator between Western Europe and "the East" in a more self-conscious way - backed by a strong military and nuclear armament -, it could even become more valuable for the US as an ally than it is today.

On the other hand, Germany is indeed in a way "occupied", not by foreigners however, but by anti-German forces from within. Since the liberal and radical left and the post-68 movement has succeeded in its "march through the institutions" and gained almost complete control over the public opinion and state institutions, full sovereignty of the German people is being prevented by German traitors rather than foreign invaders.

Germans must realize that it is really up to them to make a change.

The "revolution" of 1989 that brought the destruction of the GDR is still incomplete. What we need is a second revolution that brings about the elimination of the FRG as the "state of the basic law" and opens the path for real democratic sovereignty and the restitution of the Reich. According to article 146 of the basic law, such a revolution would not even be illegal from the point of view of the present system.

Teutonic
Wednesday, January 3rd, 2007, 05:26 PM
i would like very much if the us would get out of Germany once and for all. all the stuff that is done in and around army bases in germany is bullshit. all the blacks that rape and do whatevery they want to german women/girls is awful, same goes for the whites that do the same. but like some of you said the german government wont tell the jewusa to get out because then we would probably boycott germany, like we threatened to do to norway. i wish europe would take more of a stance against the usa.

i was at a freinds house in arizona not to long ago and one of his older brothers freinds was telling me a story about how he got drunk while he was in germany and got into an argument with some germans, he said that it was 4 americans to 3 germans, this guy told me one of his freinds stabbed one of the germans in the back when they got into a fight, i was so pissed i wanted to stab him. this is one incident among many. i have some freinds in the bundeswehr that i talk to weekly and some of the stuff they have told me is evan worse.

that rape stuff that the americans/russians,english did to all the German women is unforgivable no matter what.my family came over here 40 years before ww2 that couldve been one of my grandmothers.

Freydis
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 01:51 AM
I was intrigued by the introduction thread of BrynhildsFate in as much as I was wondering as to why American soldiers are deployed to Germany? Why do they need to be there? What purpose do they serve to the German people, if any? Are they there solely for American gain? Should they still be there? What political goals do they achieve (for America)?

These questions I would like answered by both Americans and Europeans (I'm especially interested in the German opinions) but please keep it civil! Please note that this is not an antagonistic thread!

My opinion is that they don't belong in Germany... there is maybe a tactical advantage to have a "stop over" point but I can't see why they must maintain a military presence there. It seems unjust, by my standpoint.

Æmeric
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 02:02 AM
Originally the American Army was an army of occupation. And then there was the Cold War & Nato. Now I think the main reason for the troops still being there is because they've been there for 60+ years. It's very hard to kill federal funding for a program that old. It would be a major policy change to have US troops leave Europe, one that most politicians on both sides of the Atlantic want to avoid.

Do the French, British & Russians still have troops in Germany?

Ossi
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 02:13 AM
There are American troops in Berlin. Most I see act disrespectful to my country and gloat about the war. They're here as a result of WWII, Cold War, NATO and the like. They are still an occupying force. Should they be here? NO. They serve no purpose to the German people. They should go back to their country and stay there.

BrynhildsFate
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 02:49 AM
We have bases in almost every country. Im not saying i agree with it but thats just the way it is. But on my base in Georgia we have soldiers from just about every country and we train them in everything except communication . Germany has multiple American bases. Allot of troops heading to Iraq pass threw Germany first get a few weeks training and then ship out. It also has a large communications presence. Im just happy i get to visit Europe.

stormlord
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 02:57 AM
Do the French, British & Russians still have troops in Germany?


The British Army has about 25,000 troops, there, I'd think that most Germans would know that but apparently not? There aren't any Russians there anymore and I doubt there's any French. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the reason there's so many still there is that we're worried that the Germans might hear the saying the third time's the charm and take it a touch too literally if you take my meaning ;)


Still, reparations I understand, but a hundred thousand Americans as your permanent guests....that's a punishment too far :)

Ossi
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 03:05 AM
The Brits are still here and as far as I'm concerned, they should leave along with the Americans. We are still being occupied by the bloody Allies after the war. There's no excuse. It's a violation of Germany's integrity and a disrespect to our country. The Russians have no bases here. Russia ended its military presence in Germany in 1994. We can only hope one day the Germans will get some guts and send every occupying force to where they came from. Here in Berlin whenever I bump into Allies, I make sure to make them feel unwelcome. :D

Loyalist
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 03:26 AM
The Brits are still here and as far as I'm concerned, they should leave along with the Americans. We are still being occupied by the bloody Allies after the war. There's no excuse. It's a violation of Germany's integrity and a disrespect to our country. The Russians have no bases here. Russia ended its military presence in Germany in 1994. We can only hope one day the Germans will get some guts and send every occupying force to where they came from. Here in Berlin whenever I bump into Allies, I make sure to make them feel unwelcome. :D

There is a massive distinction between the presence of American and other international forces as simply an occupation element, as was the case initially, and the establishment of a permanent American and NATO presence to counter the threat of communism, and later, Islam, a move in which Germany itself is a consenting participant. Of course, animosity over World War II still manifests itself through hostility between both camps, but instead of perpetuating this, we should instead focus on forming a united front to the common enemies which the nations under discussion face. Aside from the fact that Germany reaps economic benefits from the presence of these bases, the nation, as with the rest of Europe, is, by way of geography, a strategic and essential feature to any international effort against Islamic terrorism and its supporting nations. This is not 1945; the situation has changed dramatically, and the mandate for international forces in Germany, and elsewhere in Europe, must be properly examined before erroneously relegating it to the status of some last remainder of Allied efforts to subjugate a defeated Germany.

Ossi
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 03:38 AM
There is a massive distinction between the presence of American and other international forces as simply an occupation element, as was the case initially, and the establishment of a permanent American and NATO presence to counter the threat of communism, and later, Islam, a move in which Germany itself is a consenting participant. Of course, animosity over World War II still manifests itself through hostility between both camps, but instead of perpetuating this, we should instead focus on forming a united front to the common enemies which the nations under discussion face. Aside from the fact that Germany reaps economic benefits from the presence of these bases, the nation, as with the rest of Europe, is, by way of geography, a strategic and essential feature to any international effort against Islamic terrorism and its supporting nations. This is not 1945; the situation has changed dramatically, and the mandate for international forces in Germany, and elsewhere in Europe, must be properly examined before erroneously relegating it to the status of some last remainder of Allied efforts to subjugate a defeated Germany.
Ya actions speak louder than words. When Allies in Berlin will start acting like decent human beings, I will treat them so. Until then, everytime they gloat about destroying a Germanic country, I will give them the middle finger. I couldn't care less about the "altruism" of Americans to spread "democracy" in other countries. For all I care, the Muslims can remain under dictatorships for the rest of their lives, it's their business, not mine.

http://www.fschuster.de/cms/img/democracybombs.jpg

As for my country's leaders who consented to this, they are arsekissing traitors who deserve no respect from me.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 06:45 AM
First of all, I am paying for American troops to be stationed in Germany. I am paying for a German vacation for these people, at least in my mind, and I don't like it one bit. I have never been to Germany. Maybe I am a little jealous.

Two, America sends troops to Germany which only pollute the German gene pool. OK, I'm a racist but why should Germany act as a sperm receptacle for American soldiers, some of which are not even White?

Three, Why? The Second World War is long over. The Cold War is over. Even the Russians have left Germany. There is no military need. Who are we protecting Germany or Europe from? Besides, the last time we fought Germany, they had no problem defending themselves.

ON THE OTHER HAND:

One, the American military really likes Germany. They have air facilities there and can use them to hop over to the Near East. Going the other way, the American military likes German medical facilities where they can easily bring wounded troops for 1st World medical care. All the civillian infastructure is in place to support both bases and medical facilities. It is too easy.

Two, the Jews like it. After Unification the Jews raised the issue of keeping troops in Germany "to keep an eye on the Germans". No, I am not kidding, this was said more than once in the American media.

Three, Germany is a population sink. By this I mean that young, unemployed minority Americans can be inducted into the military as a means of keeping them out of trouble and simply stationed in Germany. This sounds crazy but it is a relief valve, available to American social engineers.

Jäger
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 09:36 AM
Why do they need to be there?
It's a form of NATO agreement nowadays, in essence they are using Germany as a training and transport station.
Germany has troops in America as well.
German troops in America, roughly 350
American troops in Germany roughly 75,000
You see this is a two sided NATO agreement :D :oanieyes

Anyway, they are here to take advantage of their placement they fought for in the 40s, whatever they deem their advantage, they will use the forces for it.
In thus I would still classify them as occupying forces.

On a personal note, I want them out, at first it was nice to talk to Americans, but they are mostly shit stirrers, guess they are bored to much, the only ones I like are the military police, they seem to be well mannered, and I can see them very often beating up their own troops :)

Guntwachar
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 09:50 AM
My brother was in the Dutch army and placed on a base in Germany around the same base were also American,English,Belgian,Canadian and Australian soldiers, as far as i know the Dutch army is mainly there because they can train with real Ammo and they cant do that in The Netherlands.
Dont know why the Americans are there but yeah they are also here on bases, they dont do much as far as i know here they are mostly stoned and drunk as we dont have anything to do for them.

Loftor
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 10:41 AM
The problem is not 'the Americans' or 'the British' it is the internationalist New World Order - Nato, UN, World Bank etc. The British and American forces are ZOG puppet armies as they were in WW2 as evidenced by their illegal invasions of Israel's regional Muslim enemies Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. Just as they killed Israel's enemy Hitler, they killed Israel's enemy Saddam. Hitler and Saddam were never a threat to the Germanic countries of England or America or Germany, they were a threat to Jews.

At the start of the first Gulf war in 1991, Saddam retaliated not by attacking the American and British Allies but by firing Scud missiles into Israel. What message do you think he was sending?

Fortis_in_Arduis
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 12:37 PM
The problem is not 'the Americans' or 'the British' it is the internationalist New World Order - Nato, UN, World Bank etc.

I agree with your NWO analysis, but I do not see it as being in the ethnic Jewish interest.

The NWO will even co-opt fundamentalist Islamic states if they fit with the plan. A recent example is Kosovo/Albania.

To see the NWO as being in the ethnic Jewish interest can be very compelling and believable as their proxy in the Middle East is little Israel, and many of the big players are of Jewish extraction, but I believe that a truly nationalist Israel, which rejected US foreign aid, produced all its own weapons, implemented nationalist economics and totally turfed out its Arab population (as was recommended by Al-Qaeda's first victim, Rabbi Meir Kahane) would find itself being undermined by the NWO.

This is why the Israeli far-right are in opposition to the NWO, as represented by the UN, NATO, the World Bank and so forth.

The mainstream media tries to drown the voices of these Jewish nationalist dissenters, but you can find out more here:

www.jtf.org

www.israelnationalnews.com

As we know, the final goal is to totally integrate the oil states into the NWO economy. The NWO cares not what their politics are so long as they are economically and/or culturally compliant.

I believe that Kosovo has proved that they will accept Islamic fundamentalism if the economics work.

Boche
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 01:11 PM
The Americans here in Germany already leave alot of Bases. And i'm sure in a few Years they're all gone. So everyone should be glad that they leave. And the old Caserns will be used for the German Army and for the German Citizens to live in.




Gruß,
Boche

BrynhildsFate
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 02:16 PM
First of all, I am paying for American troops to be stationed in Germany. I am paying for a German vacation for these people, at least in my mind, and I don't like it one bit. I have never been to Germany. Maybe I am a little jealous.

Two, America sends troops to Germany which only pollute the German gene pool. OK, I'm a racist but why should Germany act as a sperm receptacle for American soldiers, some of which are not even White?

Three, Why? The Second World War is long over. The Cold War is over. Even the Russians have left Germany. There is no military need. Who are we protecting Germany or Europe from? Besides, the last time we fought Germany, they had no problem defending themselves.

ON THE OTHER HAND:

One, the American military really likes Germany. They have air facilities there and can use them to hop over to the Near East. Going the other way, the American military likes German medical facilities where they can easily bring wounded troops for 1st World medical care. All the civillian infastructure is in place to support both bases and medical facilities. It is too easy.

Two, the Jews like it. After Unification the Jews raised the issue of keeping troops in Germany "to keep an eye on the Germans". No, I am not kidding, this was said more than once in the American media.

Three, Germany is a population sink. By this I mean that young, unemployed minority Americans can be inducted into the military as a means of keeping them out of trouble and simply stationed in Germany. This sounds crazy but it is a relief valve, available to American social engineers.

If you want a "vacation" to Germany sign up to the military! If you think im going for a nice little vacation your mistaken. I'm a communications specialist with a real job on top of my first job of being a soldier.I will have the benifits of leave in Europe to make up for being away from everything and everyone i love. 12 of my 24 months will most likely be spent in Iraq.It aggravates me that as an American you think like that. Since you pay for my vacation to Germany do you also pay for my vacation to Iraq? You also will pay for my funeral if i die in battle will you begrudge me that as well?
We are also not there protecting anyone. We are not using it as a defensive position right now just a training ground and hub for deployments. Once again im not saying i agree with it but i follow policy not write it.
As for your race implications our government sees no color just numbers. White,black,red and yellow we all die the same for them. Thats one of the first things i realized when i joined were all equal in the eyes of the American government theres no conspiracy to fill Germany with American minority's .

Freydis
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 07:38 PM
But they seem to be putting quite a few American minorities into Germany, from what I've heard... it doesn't matter the intent behind an action, what matters is the action itself and its result -- that is reality.

Leof
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 08:17 PM
The only benefit having American soldiers in Germany would have is to supply a big boost to the German ego. Nothing says your awsome like seeing a man with a gun who can turn an entire sentence into a one syllable word. :D

Freydis
Wednesday, April 9th, 2008, 08:51 PM
The only benefit having American soldiers in Germany would have is to supply a big boost to the German ego. Nothing says your awsome like seeing a man with a gun who can turn an entire sentence into a one syllable word. :D

I'm sorry, I don't really understand. Could you explain this better?

CharlesDexterWard
Thursday, April 10th, 2008, 11:20 AM
I agree with Ron Paul on U.S. American foreign policy. Troops should go out of the corners of the world and be on U.S. American soil. Non-intervention, diplomacy and trade are good things.

As for how I feel about U.S. American military presence in Europe, I'm enraged. American soldiers in Germany, go home! Lest you want to insult and obstruct Germans and anyone who has sympathy with Germans because of the unfair postwar condition that reaches way further than the borders of Germany. Going to Iraq is a no good excuse. Take care of your own "needs" be they to police the world.

American soldiers in Kosovo, go home! Whatever you are up to, I think you're up to no good.

American soldiers in the so-called Eastern bloc, go home! Don't come around here and confound the politics of Europe with your neocon, "democratic", human rights and "western" agenda.

The Lawspeaker
Thursday, April 10th, 2008, 12:02 PM
I agree with Ron Paul on U.S. American foreign policy. Troops should go out of the corners of the world and be on U.S. American soil. Non-intervention, diplomacy and trade are good things.
Well... they could do that.. when there were no Muslims and Russians to be worried about. I think that American forces in Germany are ill placed- they should be positioned in what is now former East Germany, in Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary, possibly even further to the East. And we Europeans should work hard to standardise tactics and weaponry and create a unified European Army that can protect our borders and keep both troublemakers at bay (giving the Americans time to decrease the number of forces- possibly they could even use the old REFORGER (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.s kadi.net%2Fredirector.php%3Furl%3Dhttp%2 6%2337%3B3A%252F%252Fforums.skadi.net%25 2Fredirector.php%253Furl%253Dhttp%2526%2 52337%253B3A%25252F%25252Fforums.skadi.n et%25252Fredirector.php%25253Furl%25253D http%252526%25252337%25253B3A%2525252F%2 525252Fforums.skadi.net%2525252Fredirect or.php%2525253Furl%2525253Dhttp%25252525 3A%252525252F%252525252Fforums.skadi.net %252525252Fredirector.php%252525253Furl% 252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fforums.skadi.net%2525252525 2Fredirector.php%25252525253Furl%2525252 5253Dhttp%252525252526%25252525252337%25 252525253B3A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fforums.skadi.net%2525252525252Fredirec tor.php%2525252525253Furl%2525252525253D http%25252525252526%2525252525252337%252 5252525253B3A%252525252525252F%252525252 525252Fen.wikipedia.org%252525252525252F wiki%252525252525252FExercise_REFORGER) idea- which is a lot cheaper then maintaining a full army in Europe)





As for how I feel about U.S. American military presence in Europe, I'm enraged. American soldiers in Germany, go home! Lest you want to insult and obstruct Germans and anyone who has sympathy with Germans because of the unfair postwar condition that reaches way further than the borders of Germany. Going to Iraq is a no good excuse. Take care of your own "needs" be they to police the world.

Well.. for now we don't seem to have much of a choice- unless you want to live in a Swedish Caliphate ? Our own governments are too busy fighting over who is in charge of the EU to bother about our defense against Islam or the Russians for that matter. Going to Iraq was a horrible mistake though, same goes for going to Afghanistan. We should have allowed Iraq to bomb Israel into the ground if that's what made them tick- it would have been better for the world and most certainly for Europe.


American soldiers in Kosovo, go home! Whatever you are up to, I think you're up to no good.
Yes, Kosovo was a horrible mistake that should be corrected. But is one going to correct it when there are no troops to cover our backs ?


American soldiers in the so-called Eastern bloc, go home! Don't come around here and confound the politics of Europe with your neocon, "democratic", human rights and "western" agenda.
I am affraid that the Russki's are just as crazy as the Muslims.. I am sure that you can remember that row around a monument in Estonia ? I wouldn't be surprised if Putin wants to "regain" that territory that the USSR had carved out in Europe. Knowing how the Russians (and the Muslims) are- I'd rather have the US forces there then the Russians. Or we use to say here "I'd rather have a cruise missile in the back yard then a Russian in our kitchen" (Liever een raket in de achtertuin dan een Rus in de keuken). Your country did not get occupied in WW2, nor did it get occupied by the Russians- I am quite sure that Sweden wants to keep it that way. So.. eventhough I don't like the presence of Americans soldiers in Europe, I am somehow glad that they are there: knowing that some Russians and Muslims are willing to take their place.. any time.

BrynhildsFate
Thursday, April 10th, 2008, 12:38 PM
But they seem to be putting quite a few American minorities into Germany, from what I've heard... it doesn't matter the intent behind an action, what matters is the action itself and its result -- that is reality.

Well from what i know and see its based on your number if they need you so on and so forth. Also there are more minorities in the American army then what you would be used to over there. I`d say about 50% of my barracks is at least part of a minority group i have the only white room on my floor. So its more our army is just composed of more minority's.

CharlesDexterWard
Thursday, April 10th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Well... they could do that.. when there were no Muslims and Russians to be worried about.Muslims are only a secondary problem for us. The number one priority should be national souvereignity and an ethnocentric approach to politics, NOT globalistic new world order ideas like clashes of civilisations, war on terror and cemented cold-war hostility.

To group Russians and Muslims together seems awfully wrong to me. More on that to come:



Well.. for now we don't seem to have much of a choice- unless you want to live in a Swedish Caliphate ?

Eh? Like it wasn't highly influenced by the postwar condition that was imposed upon us by force to begin with. You can't just submit to the idea that U.S. American presence in Europe somehow protects us against muslims. That's the most unfounded idea, you see. It's the other way around. We were indoctrinated with postwar internationalist and globalist ideas, and the U.S. American war on terror only makes it worse, much worse! It serves as an excuse for people to accept "refugees" flooding us like never before. Don't you see? The U.S. is not some kind of higher and benevolent power that will help us.



Yes, Kosovo was a horrible mistake that should be corrected.

It's a terribly complicated issue, in my opinion. What I'm saying is that I have no reason whatsoever to believe that American presence there is going to benefit us in any way. I think it's the other way around.



I am affraid that the Russki's are just as crazy as the Muslims.. I am sure that you can remember that row around a monument in Estonia ? I wouldn't be surprised if Putin wants to "regain" that territory that the US had carved out in Europe.

It is my opinion that U.S. American interventionism only makes the situation worse. If it wasn't for the fact that the U.S. succeeded to reanimate the fear of Russians, there would be hope for better relations with Russia. But for as long as many European nations cowardly take a tyrant as their ally against Russia, there is NO hope for better relations and a resolution of the new cold war.

Freydis
Thursday, April 10th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Yes, Kosovo was a horrible mistake that should be corrected. But is one going to correct it when there are no troops to cover our backs ?

The Russians are better suited to be in Kosovo than the Americans. The Serbs and the Russians consider each other like brothers, from what I've learned from both Serbians and Russians. So a better intervention plan would involve the Russians (and already is, in a way).


I am affraid that the Russki's are just as crazy as the Muslims..

Not nearly, sorry.

They are incomparable.


Well from what i know and see its based on your number if they need you so on and so forth. Also there are more minorities in the American army then what you would be used to over there. I`d say about 50% of my barracks is at least part of a minority group i have the only white room on my floor. So its more our army is just composed of more minority's.

50% out of a rough how many troops in a town of what size? I'm curious to learn of this.

BrynhildsFate
Thursday, April 10th, 2008, 04:43 PM
i have no idea how many are on my base. To many to count. Plus if i told you i`d have to kill you (just a joke). But i have 400 in my barracks alone where that ratio is correct. I'm not sure about other places. Just to make you aware as well that the area I am in has a large presence of blacks which may lend to that ratio of soldiers with that background. I know they try to mix us up as much as possible to keep us from grouping to our own kind but it happens naturally. I'm the darkest in my room everyone has blue eyes except me and English, Irish, German or Norwegian heritage.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, April 11th, 2008, 07:52 AM
If you want a "vacation" to Germany sign up to the military! If you think im going for a nice little vacation your mistaken. I'm a communications specialist with a real job on top of my first job of being a soldier.I will have the benifits of leave in Europe to make up for being away from everything and everyone i love. 12 of my 24 months will most likely be spent in Iraq.It aggravates me that as an American you think like that. Since you pay for my vacation to Germany do you also pay for my vacation to Iraq? You also will pay for my funeral if i die in battle will you begrudge me that as well?
We are also not there protecting anyone. We are not using it as a defensive position right now just a training ground and hub for deployments. Once again im not saying i agree with it but i follow policy not write it.
As for your race implications our government sees no color just numbers. White,black,red and yellow we all die the same for them. Thats one of the first things i realized when i joined were all equal in the eyes of the American government theres no conspiracy to fill Germany with American minority's .

No problem. You want to join the US military, travel to Germany and Iraq, so pay for it yourself. In fact, you ought to have a life insurance policy just in case you are killed in Iraq. Why should I have to pay for that? You are the one getting the paycheck thanks to me. You are the one who got the signing bonus for enlisting in the first place. Why did you enlist? 1. Money. 2. Patriotism. OK, no problem with this either. If it is money, then say so and stop posturing. If it is patriotism, you are representing yourself, so admit it. You are not representing my interests in Iraq by any means, in fact, just the opposite. If patriotism is your motive then prove it. Return your signing bonus. Refuse your paychecks. This country is going broke with this insanity. Yes, you are right, I no longer "support the troops". You people have had five years to wise up and you are adults so it must be assumed you knew what you were getting yourself in for. Good luck and please stop whining.

Siebenbürgerin
Saturday, April 12th, 2008, 06:42 PM
While not being from Germany, this Topic enrages me because I share some Feelings about American Troops.

There are American Troops in my Country as well. My Country allows them to use our Air Bases and the Black Sea Port. This wasn't so bad, but Americans operated secret CIA Prisons in this Country where they conducted illegal Interrogations and Torture. This was confirmed by senior Security Officials. This is unacceptable, it's against Human Rights!

In my Opinion, American Troops should leave Germany and other European Countries a.s.a.p. If they support Democracy and Freedom as they so like to brag then they should grant this Freedom to these Countries.

Æmeric
Saturday, April 12th, 2008, 07:19 PM
All US bases in Europe could be closed if the host countries wanted them closed. The Phillippines refused to ratify a treaty that would have allowed an extention of US leases on bases in that country & US forces departed in 1992. The US had forces based at Karshi-Khanabad Airbase in Uzbekistan but they removed after the Uzbeki government demanded they leave. All US bases in Europe exist because the host countries want them there for whatever reason.

Bärin
Saturday, April 12th, 2008, 07:23 PM
I blame the BRD treacherous anti-German regime just as much as I blame the American soldiers in my country.

Drakkar
Saturday, April 12th, 2008, 11:52 PM
The motives of both countries are unimportant to me. I don't think it's helpful to skim around the world taking a look at where American bases are and what the host countries think about their presence. I believe the continued occupation of Germany is wrong and must cease immediately. If the American military needed a hub for future invasions of countries that don't agree with them, then it should dump all its resources in France. That should give the French something meaningful to protest about.

Aistulf
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 02:41 AM
Originally the American Army was an army of occupation.
They still are.

It's too bad the Germans aren't more like Iraqis and Afghans, they should've continued the Volksſturm against them and the Soviets in the east.

Loddfafner
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 02:48 AM
I'm just glad there are so many people willing to stand up and fight for my country, right or wrong, despite the bad judgement of our leaders.

Aistulf
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 02:50 AM
For “Israel” you mean (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3WdycoEV88)?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 05:03 AM
I'm just glad there are so many people willing to stand up and fight for my country, right or wrong, despite the bad judgement of our leaders.

But the troops fighting for America are on the border with Mexico. Wars of "Bad judgement, right or wrong" etc., apply to wars fought for Israel or misbegotten law enforcement efforts such as Osama bin Laden.

Evolved
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 05:20 AM
Just as they killed Israel's enemy Hitler

Can you explain how Hitler was an enemy of Israel?

Jäger
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 10:21 AM
I'm just glad there are so many people willing to stand up and fight for my country, right or wrong, despite the bad judgement of our leaders.
And then I can hear how NS Germany was against freedom and just demanded blind obedience, what you are propagating is "corpselike obedience":

"... Ignatius in his famous letter demands the same kind of obedience: blind obedience, corpselike obedience. The lucidity of blind obedience would vanish in the event of one’s posing the question as to good and evil in the face of a command. If it is necessary to fulfil an order by the superior, then:
Whatever it might be, a blind urge to obey will draw us with it, without leaving the slightest room for reflection.
It was on March 26, 1553, when the demand for corpselike obedience was flung as an open challenge into Germanic western spiritual life. Writes Ignatius:
Lay aside, beloved brother, as much as possible your will, and hand over and sacrifice your freedom .....
You must obey with a certain blind urge, allow yourself to drift devoid of will without any kind of investigation, to do whatever your superior says .....
In the Constitutions we read:
Each shall be convinced that whoever lives in obedience shall allow himself to be led by the superior, as if he be a corpse, allowing himself to be carried and laid down here and there in every manner; or as if he be the stick of an old man which serves him who holds it where and ever he will .....
In his Rules, which Loyola added to the Exercises, he again demanded:
Complete removal of personal judgement,
and furthermore:
When something appears white to our eyes which the church has defined as black, then this is likewise to be declared as black.
Subjection is demanded, completely irrespective of whether the servant holds something to be sinful or dishonourable; even the restriction, however threadbare, made earlier is lacking here, that one needs only to disobey when an open sin is demanded. ...

The demand by Ignatius to call white black, if the church so commanded, signified the declaring of holy the poisoning of souls, and was a recognition of the right to the destruction of conscience, the open elevation of a lie to a work of piety." - A. Rosenberg, The Myth of the 20th Century

It was Meister Eckhart who explained the difference between loyal followers and mere menials: "The menial doesn't know about the goals of his leader!"
The loyal follower is exactly loyal and follows because he wants to achieve the goals of his leader, blind menial loyalty is worth shit for a Germanic spirit, if anything this is just a another sign for degeneration.

Not in NS we have such a demand, because here we acknowledge the free Germanic spirit, and that there is the utmost responsibility of its leaders to do what's right, objectively (!) :

"There can be no such thing as state authority as an end in itself, for, if there were, every tyranny in this world would be unassailable and sacred.
If, by the instrument of governmental power, a nationality is led toward its destruction, then rebellion is not only the right of every member of such a people-it is his duty." - A. Hitler, Mein Kampf

but in our todays degenerated society (and historically this was coming from the church)

There is no honor in coprselike obedience, it is for slaves and menials, but not for someone who wants to be part of a higher caste, and claim the title of being a master of himself!

How can such a statement come from an American who demands the freedom of weapons to fight against his government?
This leads me to believe this is just talks, nothing behind it, slaves and menials should never be allowed such freedoms as to carry weapons, or what not.


Can you explain how Hitler was an enemy of Israel?
Because he didn't want Israel to happen. He knew it would be just a nest, from which these parasites will keep swarming to their hosts.

Aistulf
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Can you explain how Hitler was an enemy of Israel?
Watch the documentary film «Der ewige Jude» (1940) and look up the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (read: القدس [al-Quds]), الحاج محمد أمين الحسيني [al-Hāj Mohammad Āmīn al-Husseyni], and his involvement during WWII on the Axis' side.

Evolved
Sunday, April 13th, 2008, 10:24 PM
Watch the documentary film «Der ewige Jude» (1940) and look up the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (read: القدس [al-Quds]), الحاج محمد أمين الحسيني [al-Hāj Mohammad Āmīn al-Husseyni], and his involvement during WWII on the Axis' side.

I have seen the "documentary" Der ewige Jude (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5849499994484879153) in 3 different translations (DeJ is a horrible piece of crap designed for lowbrow readers of Der Stürmer and probably the most tactless film produced by the propaganda ministry) some time ago but as far as I can remember it hasn't anything to do with Hitler/his government being against Jewish emigration to Palestine and establishment of a Jewish state (aka Zionism). If anything it shows just how necessary such a policy of a Jewish state outside of Europe is and was, since Jews are incompatible with Gentiles (this is the conclusion of Herzl as well). Die Endlösung der Judenfrage is a phrase borrowed from the works of Herzl, after all.

The alliance with the mufti was little more than a propaganda effort to convince Arabs to fully support the Axis side (Desert Campaign 1940-1943) and later as part of a last-ditch effort to get European Muslim volunteers into the Waffen-ϟϟ.

National Socialists are natural allies of Zionists, both groups are Socialist-minded and have the same goals (racialist, nationalist, against Jewish assimilation, against mixed marriages, against multiculturalism). I've never understood why so many self-proclaimed "NS" on these boards are so pro-Arab & anti-Zionist.

I guess I can't understand how one can be against Jewish involvement in Germanic societies, be a racialist & social-Darwinist 'might makes right' type, but be against Jews conquering Palestine and building modern Israel there. What alternative would these anti-Zionist NS suggest? Where should the 13 million Jews of the world go? Straight to hell?

Let me put it another way: If you could snap your fingers and cause every Jewish individual on earth to magically transport to the land of Israel and out of the affairs of Germanic societies forever, but doing so would harm some Arabs in Palestine, would you refrain from snapping your fingers out of humanitarian concerns for Arabs? The goal of any real Zionist is the complete repatriation of all Jews to the Holy Land- none of this half-in-half-out dual citizenship stuff: physical residence within Israel and a total loyalty of all Jews to the fully Jewish state. I cannot see how any person calling themselves a National Socialist would oppose that, when it is precisely the sort of thing a National Socialist wants for his or her own people.

Evolved
Monday, April 14th, 2008, 05:00 AM
I don't expect an American to understand NS.

I love that argument, it came up all the time on Skadi as well! A laugh riot, I'm familiar with this line of reasoning. It goes like this: "Because I don't particularly like or agree with what you're saying I've decided that since you're not born within the political borders of Germany, you cannot understand or speak anything about National Socialism."

Yet the same hypocrites who use this argument usually love to run their mouths re: "America is this, America does that..." Sorry, you have to supply some deeper historian credentials besides "I'm from Germany" to impress me and frighten me from typing about history. If you are someone such as David Irving (also not German) I'll of course recognize and yield to your superior knowledge on the topic.

As for the question 'show one example' of cooperation of Zionism & National Socialism, that's quite easy. I have been looking into this topic of Zionism and National Socialism for some time, it is a complex very controversial issue and hard to find unbiased sources of information on it. However, the article Zionism and the Third Reich by Mark Weber (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html) is a good starting point. I have read about this topic mainly in English as I have not studied the German language in many years, but I have found whenever possible quotes in German so you do not say I'm reading a poor translation of something.

Here are some examples I can dig up.

Zionist Rabbi Joachim Prinz's 1934 work ‘‘Wir Juden’’ is nothing short of congratulatory toward the new government and its principles of racial/cultural purity:


‘‘Zionism believes that a rebirth of national life, such as is occurring in German life through adhesion to Christian and national values must also take place in the Jewish national group. For the Jew, too, origin, religion, community of fate, and group consciousness must be of decisive significance in the shaping of his life. Our acknowledgement of Jewish nationality provides for a clear and sincere relationship to the German people and its national and racial realities. We do not wish to falsify these fundamentals because we too are against mixed marriage and are for maintaining the purity of the Jewish group and reject any trespasses of the cultural domain. For its practical aims, Zionism hopes to be able to win the collaboration even of a government fundamentally hostile to Jews, because in dealing with the Jewish question not sentimentalities are involved but a real problem whose solution interests all people’s, and at the present moment especially the German people. The realization of Zionism could only be hurt by resentment of Jews abroad against the German development boycott propaganda – such as is currently being carried on against Germany in many ways- is in essence un-Zionist, because Zionism wants not to do battle but to convince and to build.’’ - Rabbi Joachim Prinz, ‘‘Wir Juden’’ Berlin, 1934

Another example of collaboration is Zionistische Vereinigung für Deutschland in the 1930's and the establishment of the Haavara-Transfer-Abkommen, which transported about 50,000 Jews from Germany to Palestine. Haavara-Transfer was stopped and ZVfD suppressed when it became clear it wasn't feasible to transfer all of Germany's Jews this way and also the economic benefits of opening a market for German goods in Palestine were not paying off (yes, not everything was race-politic, the government was interested in making some money off of this).

Journalist SS-Untersturmführer Leopold Itz Edler von Mildenstein & ZVfD executive Kurt Tuchler made a collaborative travel to Palestine, which von Mildenstein wrote about in an article entitled Ein Nazi fährt nach Palästina, published in 27 September 1934 issue of Der Angriff. There was also a commemorative/promotional coin minted for this special event:

http://i28.tinypic.com/2yys1eq.jpg http://www.harunyahya.de/bucher/social/holocaust/images_holocaust_violence/picture42.jpg

Unfortunately I cannot find the article in German, it is translated into English here (http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/1455) (scroll to the bottom).

(By the way, I'm curious, do materials such as these newspaper articles exist in ordinary German libraries and archives, or is it something only certain researchers can request access to?)

SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich stated in one of his many articles for Das Schwarze Korps: “Als Nationalsozialist bin ich auch Zionist.” I cannot find which article or issue it was, but the quote is mentioned in Die SS: Eine Warnung der Geschichte by Guido Knopp, surely there is a note/bibliography in it.


“The time may not be too far off when Palestine will again be able to receive its sons who have been lost to it for more than a thousand years. Our good wishes, together with official goodwill, go with them.” - Reinhard Heydrich, written in Das Schwarze Korps, May 15, 1935.

Here is a longer quote from Heydrich:


“Man muß in der Beurteilung der Kampfesweise des Judentums trennen zwischen den Judenorganisationen, die offen als Juden arbeiten, und zwischen den von der jüdischen Weltorganisation geführten Hilfs- und Zweckverbänden. Die in Deutschland lebenden Juden gliedern sich in zwei Gruppen, die Zionisten und Assimilanten (die sich selbst bezeichnenderweise Deutsch-Juden nennen). Die Zionisten vertreten zwar einen starken Rassestandpunkt und streben mit der Auswanderung nach Palästina die Schaffung eines eigenen jüdischen Staates an, doch darf man sich dabei nicht über die grundsätzlich volksfeindliche Einstellung der Juden täuschen lassen. Die Assimilanten verleugnen ihre jüdische Rasse, indem sie entweder, auf ihre langjährige Ansässigkeit pochend, behaupten, Deutsche oder nach vollzogener Taufe Christen zu sein. Diese Assimilanten sind es vor allen Dingen, die mit allen Arten von Loyalitätserklärungen und mit der ihrer Rasse eigenen Aufdringlichkeit versuchen, die nationalsozialistischen Grundsätze über den Haufen zu werfen. Auch die Verkündung der allgemeinen Wehrpflicht versuchten sie sich nutzbar zu machen. Die von ehemaligen Offizieren des Beurlaubtenstandes geführten Verbände (Reichsbund jüdischer Frontsoldaten und Verband nationaldeutscher Juden) hatten nach der Verkündung des Gesetzes nichts unversucht gelassen, die Einbeziehung der Juden in die Wehrmacht zu erreichen.” - Wandlungen unseres Kampfes (1936)

More from Das Schwarze Korps:


‘‘The recognition of Jewry as a racial community based on blood and not on religion leads the German government to guarantee without reservation the racial separateness of this community. The government finds itself in complete agreement with the great spiritual movement within Jewry, the so-called Zionism, with its recognition of the solidarity of Jewry around the world and its rejection of all assimilationist notions. On this basis, Germany undertakes measures that will surely play a significant role in the future in the handling of the Jewish problem around the world.’’ - Das Schwarze Korps, Sept. 26, 1935

In the 1930's the majority of Jews in Germany belonged to assimilationist movement or mindset and did not want to leave. I don't need to explain why assimilation was a bad thing from an NS standpoint. Needless to say, Jewish people having a separate group consciousness, separate organizations, separate schools, etc away from Germans was considered a good thing racially and culturally for the Germans, and this was also what the Zionists clearly wanted. That is why I say NS and Zionism were natural allies.

This policy (forced separation of Jews from German public life and blocking them from entering many professions) today is looked down on as a system of “exclusion,” humiliation and apartheid, when the goal clearly was not any sort of humiliation but practical: to make the assimilationist Jews more conscious of their culture and race, with the hopes they would realize their 'otherness,' feel unwelcome and leave Europe. Zionists in fact welcomed this 'anti-Semitism.'

Adolf Eichmann, who attempted to visit Palestine in 1937 (was blocked by the British), states in his writings had he been born a Jew he would have been a Zionist:


“I did see enough to be very impressed by the way the Jewish colonists were building up their land. I admired their desperate will to live, the more so since I was myself an idealist. In the years that followed I often said to Jews with whom I had dealings that, had I been a Jew, I would have been a fanatical Zionist. I could not imagine being anything else. In fact, I would have been the most ardent Zionist imaginable.” - Adolf Eichmann, Eichmann Tells His Own Damning Story, Life (28 November 1960), p.22.

I'll answer what Schlageter says in another thread, because it is slightly more on-topic here:


I think you are "krank" in the head, quite neo-con and very yankee...

If I'm a "neo-con" for saying Jews should have their own racial state far outside of Europe where every Jewish individual shall live, develop their own identity and adhere to their own interests rather than interfering in those of others, what exactly are you? Why do you oppose Zionism? Do you want Jews to assimilate in Europe or European-Colonial lands, or mythically send them "East," where they also do not belong and will mix and mutilate some culture into garbage somewhere else? :rolleyes:

I can't believe you don't see the any contradiction in your opposition to Zionism, (that is to say, the return of the Jews to their ancestral lands), and then all the "Germanic Europe is the sacred land of our ancestors" talk which goes on in these circles. Tell me how it is a contradiction that I support both? Why should a preservationist be against another preservationist? I think "Zionist" and "Neocon" has become little more than an insult flung at perceived opponents, just like a neobolshevik uses "racist" and "Nazi," and so it loses all meaning.

I am a Zionist, as I see it as ideal for all groups to live amongst their own kind. Please understand: I am not a Christian religious nut or a AIPAC type. Does being a Zionist mean I want to give money to Israel? Absolutely not. I don't want any European or European-Colonial country to give one cent/Euro to Israel for support or for "Holocaust" claims. I want Jews to rely completely on themselves, just as I want all ethnic groups to do.

If all Jews live only in their own land rather than assimilating or having dual citizenship, the centuries of their poisonous cultural and economic influence will eventually stop in our societies. That is not what "neo-cons" want, so you are very wrong in calling me a "neo-con." A neocon is a supporter of the dual loyalist, dual citizenship model.

Israelis are brutal oppressors of the Arabs, I agree. But to my view, that is just the way of the world. We are a species of animal who hate and kill each other over territory, I have to say as a tribalist I'm interested in what happens to outsiders only insofar as it effects my own. To reinterpret a quote from a certain practical, rational & wise man on matters like these: Whether or not 10,000 Palestinian houses are bulldozed by the Israelis interests me only insofar as the Israelites are not in my country or my ancestors' homeland corrupting and corroding the cultural well-being. That is rather cold, but politics should be this way.

It never ceases to amaze hearing this weeping over the Palestinians from European nationalists, especially those who take a special pride in their Gothic or Viking warrior heritage. We surely do not descend from peace-lovers who were always liberal, tolerant practitioners of human rights toward their enemies. While our ancestors were not as barbaric and cruel as usually depicted, we did indeed conquer and enslave people throughout our history. It was not all rosy and tolerant, we'll do well to drop this sick, alien Semitic dualism where one entity is either purely good or purely evil. History is very grey.

The difference between myself and a pro-Palestinian Germanic Preservationist or National Socialist, is that my support of Zionism is not based on some emotional attachment to or special love of the Jewish people- quite the opposite in fact. My desire to see Jews mass emigrate to the Holy Land is based on the realization that Jews have not, do not and will not ever fit into Germanic societies, that they are a corruptive, corrosive force, that the Germanic and Jew should not mix, and everyone would be better off if the Jewish people completely dissimilated from us Germanic Gentiles. With pro-Palestinian Germanic Preservationist or National Socialists, their hatred of Israel/Zionism and (more often than not - feigned) sympathy with Palestinians is based on emotions, CNN type emo-news saturation, some attachment to a minor fluke of history like the NS-Mufti relationship or just instinctive opposition to anything Jewish. There's a time for historical romanticism and a time to be practical, is what I'm saying.

Soten
Monday, April 14th, 2008, 05:43 AM
And then I can hear how NS Germany was against freedom and just demanded blind obedience, what you are propagating is "corpselike obedience":

Was it not the National Socialists who wrote such propaganda as "Rechts oder unrechts, mein Deutschland" (Right or wrong, my Germany)?

I think that's the wording. I wanted to find a picture of it, but can't. I remember it because I thought it was so awesome.

I'm also reminded of this:

the American patriot Stephen Decatur's famous toast in Norfolk, Virginia, in 1816: "Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."

I would think that some level of this sort of patriotism is absolutely neccesary for any nationalism.

SwordOfTheVistula
Monday, April 14th, 2008, 07:42 AM
The 3rd reich put out a boardgame in the 1930s "move the jew to palestine"

Aside from 6 ft under, a desert in the middle of 1 billion psychopathic fanatics is the best place for the jews. Some people like Madagascar as a place to send the jews, but that place has too many endangered species. We should use the issue to drive a wedge between the jews and their third worlder lackeys, but to be an anti-zionist puppet and take the side of the muslims and be anti-zionist but sympathetic to anti-zionist jews is to be as bad as the worst pro-zionist jewish lackey. Zionists should be treated the same as the 'back-to-Africa' movement the blacks have, a good way to get them out of our country and distract the muslims.

Jäger
Monday, April 14th, 2008, 08:32 AM
SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich stated in one of his many articles for Das Schwarze Korps: “Als Nationalsozialist bin ich auch Zionist.” I cannot find which article or issue it was, but the quote is mentioned in Die SS: Eine Warnung der Geschichte by Guido Knopp, surely there is a note/bibliography in it.
Guido Knopp is one of the greatest traitors in Germany, and his sole purpose is to fake and lie about history, he is the chief commander of public historical education on German state television, if any change of power should happen while he is still alive, he better run!
I have only the utmost disrespect for this craphead, but nevertheless, I don't want this to be my argument against your's.
The truth is, that A. Hitler feared what I said in my post above, in thus, only a forceful rejection of Jews would have helped, if Israel would have been the destination of such a dissipation, it would be not good for the Arabic-Semitic relations, while not unbearable, it would be a disadvantage for Germany, where Germany is certainly not willing to take any disadvantage for the well being of Jews.
So if you call the forceful (if they don't leave voluntarily) dissipation of all Jews to Madagascar Zionism, then NS was for Zionism, but if Zion refers to Jerusalem and if Jewish Zionism is more than just getting all Jews away, then it certainly was against it.


Was it not the National Socialists who wrote such propaganda as "Rechts oder unrechts, mein Deutschland" (Right or wrong, my Germany)?
Ya, possible, although I doubt it, you should read who the the target of propaganda was, and how it was implemented.

"The second really decisive question was this: To whom should propaganda be addressed? To the scientifically trained intelligentsia or to the less educated masses?
It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses.
[..]
All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be." - A. Hitler, Mein Kampf
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch06.html

It is not that Germany had no mind-slaves and and mind-menials :)


I would think that some level of this sort of patriotism is absolutely neccesary for any nationalism.
It is necessary, in that the mass can be mobilized, for something they had no knowledge, but it is highly dangerous when the state authority changes course in the wrong direction, but I think it is clear that the quote of Hitler about the duty for resistance is directed at the highest what Germany has to offer, intelligent individuals, and that your propaganda quote is directed to the lowest ;)
Make your conclusion and step in line :p

CharlesDexterWard
Monday, April 14th, 2008, 08:32 AM
The thread has gone off topic. Jäger's main point back here (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=58794&postcount=35) was about corpselike obedience, something quite relevant to the attitude of some people serving in an army. Now all of a sudden this thread is about the NSDAP stance on Zionism? I don't think so.

BrynhildsFate
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 05:47 AM
No problem. You want to join the US military, travel to Germany and Iraq, so pay for it yourself. In fact, you ought to have a life insurance policy just in case you are killed in Iraq. Why should I have to pay for that? You are the one getting the paycheck thanks to me. You are the one who got the signing bonus for enlisting in the first place. Why did you enlist? 1. Money. 2. Patriotism. OK, no problem with this either. If it is money, then say so and stop posturing. If it is patriotism, you are representing yourself, so admit it. You are not representing my interests in Iraq by any means, in fact, just the opposite. If patriotism is your motive then prove it. Return your signing bonus. Refuse your paychecks. This country is going broke with this insanity. Yes, you are right, I no longer "support the troops". You people have had five years to wise up and you are adults so it must be assumed you knew what you were getting yourself in for. Good luck and please stop whining.

1. I have no bonus thank you very much. If i told you my pay you would laugh its not good money at all. I made more at home working in a warehouse. Sorry the government thinks that after i serve my country they should help me with furthering my education thus providing a physically fit educated person to add to our society i see how thats a bad choice on their part.
2.Since when did i say i represented "your" interests? I am a soldier in the American army not your army i represent America through good and bad. I do not write the policy i follow it. I take orders not make them.
3.If nobody joined out of their own free will and wanting to serve their country instead of their own gain then there would be a draft. Then thousand of people who did not want to join would be forced to. Think of it hippies and liberals whining about not being able to take the pain running away to Canada and Mexico trying to escape.
4. I didn't pick Germany or Iraq. I have no control over where i go. I could just as easily gone to Korea,Italy,Japan allot of different places. I didn't join like oh this is what i want.
5.If you don't support our troops then they shouldn't support you. Go move to Canada where you wont be insulting thousands of dead Americans who were doing there job. Not many things piss me off but that does.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 06:26 AM
1. I have no bonus thank you very much. If i told you my pay you would laugh its not good money at all. I made more at home working in a warehouse. Sorry the government thinks that after i serve my country they should help me with furthering my education thus providing a physically fit educated person to add to our society i see how thats a bad choice on their part.
2.Since when did i say i represented "your" interests? I am a soldier in the American army not your army i represent America through good and bad. I do not write the policy i follow it. I take orders not make them.
3.If nobody joined out of their own free will and wanting to serve their country instead of their own gain then there would be a draft. Then thousand of people who did not want to join would be forced to. Think of it hippies and liberals whining about not being able to take the pain running away to Canada and Mexico trying to escape.
4. I didn't pick Germany or Iraq. I have no control over where i go. I could just as easily gone to Korea,Italy,Japan allot of different places. I didn't join like oh this is what i want.
5.If you don't support our troops then they shouldn't support you. Go move to Canada where you wont be insulting thousands of dead Americans who were doing there job. Not many things piss me off but that does. You are a selfish,thoughtless and contemptible person. You belong here as much as an illegal.

Well that is funny because some "American" soldiers got up to $48,000.00 just to sign up. But the pay is better than your warehouse job or you wouldn't be there, would you?

The only soldiers representing or defending America are the Border Patrol. You are representing and defending World Zionism. If you have never heard this before, get used to it. You are going to hear it in Iraq. They hate Americans and want them out of their country by a huge majority. Oh yes, the vast majority of Americans want you out of their country also. You are simply one of a force of occupation. Don't try to clean it up.

I got my own education. Why shouldn't you?

"3.If nobody joined out of their own free will and wanting to serve their country instead of their own gain then there would be a draft. Then thousand of people who did not want to join would be forced to. Think of it hippies and liberals whining about not being able to take the pain running away to Canada and Mexico trying to escape."

You joined for the money. If not, waive the money. Either way, stop whining about it and couching yourself as occupying moral high ground. You don't. Draftees deserved consideration because of their involuntary plight. You went in eyes-open after looking at this situation for five years. You made a contract, honor it, but don't think it any higher on the moral scale than warehouse job. That was honest work.

Right, I don't support American troops and they don't support me. That is the relationship. Rather than me move to Canada, why don't you solve your problem by enlisting in the Israeli Defense Forces. That way the only beneficiaries of you effort would be the one's paying you and you would have no need to explain yourself here. Ask the Israelis if they are willing to send you to college.

Oh please stop this self-righteous garbage about dead American soldiers. Iraq didn't attack America. Even the youngest, thickest headed soldier ought to be able to understand that. Those 4,000 plus soldiers DIED FOR NOTHING. Do you want to be the next one? Look, just answer this: Is there anything in Iraq worth one more dollar or one more American life? Is there anything in Israel worth one more dollar or one more American life? Is it worth yours?

If you want to do something for your country, join the Border Patrol. Otherwise stop making excuses for your decisions, expectations and actions.

SwordOfTheVistula
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 06:43 AM
I think it is good for nationalists to join the military.

When Yugoslavia broke up, were the various ethnicities better or worse off for having trained veterans of the Yugoslav army amongst them?

Siebenbürgerin
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 06:56 AM
I don't agree with what Americans are doing, as I said. I think it's best to oppose this Policy as much as possible. Infringing on other Countries is uncalled for. But I still respect some Patriots because they believe they are doing what's right for their Country. They serve their Country, right or wrong. As long as they don't brag in our Faces that they won the Wars and they have a respecting Attitude.

BrynhildsFate
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 07:15 AM
Well that is funny because some "American" soldiers got up to $48,000.00 just to sign up. But the pay is better than your warehouse job or you wouldn't be there, would you?

The only soldiers representing or defending America are the Border Patrol. You are representing and defending World Zionism. If you have never heard this before, get used to it. You are going to hear it in Iraq. They hate Americans and want them out of their country by a huge majority. Oh yes, the vast majority of Americans want you out of their country also. You are simply one of a force of occupation. Don't try to clean it up.

I got my own education. Why shouldn't you?

"3.If nobody joined out of their own free will and wanting to serve their country instead of their own gain then there would be a draft. Then thousand of people who did not want to join would be forced to. Think of it hippies and liberals whining about not being able to take the pain running away to Canada and Mexico trying to escape."

You joined for the money. If not, waive the money. Either way, stop whining about it and couching yourself as occupying moral high ground. You don't. Draftees deserved consideration because of their involuntary plight. You went in eyes-open after looking at this situation for five years. You made a contract, honor it, but don't think it any higher on the moral scale than warehouse job. That was honest work.

Right, I don't support American troops and they don't support me. That is the relationship. Rather than me move to Canada, why don't you solve your problem by enlisting in the Israeli Defense Forces. That way the only beneficiaries of you effort would be the one's paying you and you would have no need to explain yourself here. Ask the Israelis if they are willing to send you to college.

Oh please stop this self-righteous garbage about dead American soldiers. Iraq didn't attack America. Even the youngest, thickest headed soldier ought to be able to understand that. Those 4,000 plus soldiers DIED FOR NOTHING. Do you want to be the next one? Look, just answer this: Is there anything in Iraq worth one more dollar or one more American life? Is there anything in Israel worth one more dollar or one more American life? Is it worth yours?

If you want to do something for your country, join the Border Patrol. Otherwise stop making excuses for your decisions, expectations and actions.

What don't you understand about what i said I DID NOT GET A BONUS. I could have if i picked a different job or quick ship(some get up to 60,000). Instead i picked a job i knew i would be good at. The pay isn't better then the warehouse job(i clearly said that in my last post) based on the hours i pull and the only difference in benefits is no co-pay for dental/optical and no emergency room fees. Which in fact is amazing but besides the point. I plan on going back to a union job once i leave the military but thats after my times up.
How do you not understand that i do not agree with the war in Iraq! I just follow my orders.Somebody has to do it. Don't like it Vote. March on something.Start a revolution if you feel that is what you must do but leave the soldiers out of it.I vote. I want change. I agree our troops are dieing for nothing. I have already lost people i trained/lived/grew with. So do not come at me with this self-righteous talk its you who are self-righteous. I want the war to end. Will that stop it no. And in fact i`ve meet allot of people who disagree with the war but never one who had anything bad to say about me. In fact i`ve had nothing but kindness when im in uniform when im around civilians. I even gone as far as walking up to a group of protesters and had as discussion with them. No one has ever said a bad word to me called me a name. They all have been supportive and said what ever there political view they would always support the troops.
Im not the one who's whining. Its you about your money, my money this my money that.
The troops do support you. You live in America right? What would happen if they got rid of the military. No America No You No Money.
i do not make excuses for who i am or what i do
I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER
SUPPORT YOUR TROOPS HOOAH!

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 07:40 AM
What don't you understand about what i said I DID NOT GET A BONUS. I could have if i picked a different job or quick ship(some get up to 60,000). Instead i picked a job i knew i would be good at. The pay isn't better then the warehouse job(i clearly said that in my last post) based on the hours i pull and the only difference in benefits is no co-pay for dental/optical and no emergency room fees. Which in fact is amazing but besides the point. I plan on going back to a union job once i leave the military but thats after my times up.
How do you not understand that i do not agree with the war in Iraq! I just follow my orders.Somebody has to do it. Don't like it Vote. March on something.Start a revolution if you feel that is what you must do but leave the soldiers out of it.I vote. I want change. I agree our troops are dieing for nothing. I have already lost people i trained/lived/grew with. So do not come at me with this self-righteous talk its you who are self-righteous. I want the war to end. Will that stop it no. And in fact i`ve meet allot of people who disagree with the war but never one who had anything bad to say about me. In fact i`ve had nothing but kindness when im in uniform when im around civilians. I even gone as far as walking up to a group of protesters and had as discussion with them. No one has ever said a bad word to me called me a name. They all have been supportive and said what ever there political view they would always support the troops.
Im not the one who's whining. Its you about your money, my money this my money that.
The troops do support you. You live in America right? What would happen if they got rid of the military. No America No You No Money.
i do not make excuses for who i am or what i do
I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER
SUPPORT YOUR TROOPS HOOAH!

What? Now you really seem confused. You are telling me that you don't support the war in Iraq, you are just lending your body to it? Why? I say it is for money. I say it is your meal ticket and you chose this rather than the warehouse. But prove me wrong, return the money.

Why on earth do you think or imagine, you and your "American" soldiers are worth the 40 million dollars a day you cost us, overseas, tilting with windmills.

But now you say you don't support the war. You say you are against the war. But you joined the American military to participate in the war. Can't you understand something: when you are involved in an evil organization or one doing immoral or illegal things, an unjust one, or just plain oppressing people, then you do have an honorable alternative. You can resign.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't take the pay and support the organization in its unjust work and then turn around and say you don't support them or don't support the mission. There is no honorable options open here. There is a word for this behavior.

As for your "support the troops" argument, the troops do not support us. The troops seem afraid to do that. America is being invaded by Mexico. Perhaps you come from the Midwest or Northeast and have no idea what I am talking about but it is true. We are at war, not with "terrorism", or some other nebulous concept like declaring war on the high tide, no, we are at war with Mexico. Mexico wants to occupy America racially and culturally. If you want to defend America, get down to the southern border and do it. HOOAH (whatever kind of ebonic expression that is).

Jäger
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 07:53 AM
I have to say, I can understand mercenaries, I was one too :D
People who seek adventure and fight for glory and gold, but those do not demand support of anyone, because they know they don't support anyone either.
It becomes critically when you actively have to fight against your own people, then even mercenaries should know where their loyalties are.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 08:00 AM
I don't agree with what Americans are doing, as I said. I think it's best to oppose this Policy as much as possible. Infringing on other Countries is uncalled for. But I still respect some Patriots because they believe they are doing what's right for their Country. They serve their Country, right or wrong. As long as they don't brag in our Faces that they won the Wars and they have a respecting Attitude.

If and when your country is invaded, then you can support your country's political policies, right or wrong, and have no moral reservations. Your country is being invaded. You have a perfect right to defend yourself.

But, if your country is the invader and you are among the invaders, then it would be preferable to be in full support of your country's military goals. Otherwise, what are you doing?

BrynhildsFate
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 08:30 AM
What? Now you really seem confused. You are telling me that you don't support the war in Iraq, you are just lending your body to it? Why? I say it is for money. I say it is your meal ticket and you chose this rather than the warehouse. But prove me wrong, return the money.

Why on earth do you think or imagine, you and your "American" soldiers are worth the 40 million dollars a day you cost us, overseas, tilting with windmills.

But now you say you don't support the war. You say you are against the war. But you joined the American military to participate in the war. Can't you understand something: when you are involved in an evil organization or one doing immoral or illegal things, an unjust one, or just plain oppressing people, then you do have an honorable alternative. You can resign.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't take the pay and support the organization in its unjust work and then turn around and say you don't support them or don't support the mission. There is no honorable options open here. There is a word for this behavior.

As for your "support the troops" argument, the troops do not support us. The troops seem afraid to do that. America is being invaded by Mexico. Perhaps you come from the Midwest or Northeast and have no idea what I am talking about but it is true. We are at war, not with "terrorism", or some other nebulous concept like declaring war on the high tide, no, we are at war with Mexico. Mexico wants to occupy America racially and culturally. If you want to defend America, get down to the southern border and do it. HOOAH (whatever kind of ebonic expression that is).

I can in fact say i support my country and will do anything for it but hope for change. If i vote against the people who are in office now my superiors am i wrong. Im in fact not supporting my bosses. I will do things against my own beliefs to serve my country in the way it sees fit for me to. It has given me everything i have.As for me not supporting the war i said if from the begining. I will go and do what they tell me to. If someone asks me if i want the war to end i will say yes. There is nothing wrong with that.
As for the troops not supporting the "war" on mexico well thats a laugh. What do you think we could just be like oh yea lets go do that. Once again its not the troops choice.How can you not see that. Im having a hard time expressing myself without attacking you over the fact that you cant get it through your head that its not like we have pow-wows and decide what were gonna do next! THATS WHY WE VOTE. We are a democracy. Its majority rules. If they would allow me to I would be down there in a second. So would most of my battles
As for the illegals i say give them 4 years mandatory service in the military branch of their choice. Have them take English along with there course and only give them room and board and then give them citizenship. Maybe we would be better off taking a page out of Israels book. Mandatory service for everyone who lives in this country. See what its like to sacrifice your body and mind. Get the fat kids running and the upstanding humanitarians a does of reality.
fyi HOOAH is not ebonics its an army slang (like ooorah for marines)

OneEnglishNorman
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 08:42 AM
If and when your country is invaded, then you can support your country's political policies, right or wrong, and have no moral reservations. Your country is being invaded. You have a perfect right to defend yourself.

But, if your country is the invader and you are among the invaders, then it would be preferable to be in full support of your country's military goals. Otherwise, what are you doing?

I think you are somewhat unfair, although I can see how gently challenging those who serve in the armed forces, over the Iraq mess, could influence opinion at large.

But we need professional militaries. And we need soldiers who will fulfil their duty effectively, over and above their own misgivings, otherwise the armed forces would be crippled by insubordination.

Now, as for the views of the servicemen. Ron Paul received more military contributions than any other candidate. What does that tell us? It tells us that the military is informed and does know what is going on. It tells us that there are men from families of honourable military service, who are serving their country yet have deep misgivings on policy.

Jäger
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 09:41 AM
What do you think we could just be like oh yea lets go do that.
Ya, read your constitution, I thought the main purpose of gun ownership is to fight the government anyway :)
However, now you can't do that anymore, you are bound by a vow, and have made yourself a menial of the state.


But we need professional militaries.
Yes, we need them, but at least we shouldn't deliver them to our enemies.

OneEnglishNorman
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 10:11 AM
Yes, we need them, but at least we shouldn't deliver them to our enemies.

Sure, but we cannot retreat from having the proper functions of a state (military), just because the state as a whole is being governed badly. And attitudes to military servicemen should not fluctuate wildly dependent on what particular military operation a minority of the armed forces is undertaking at any moment in time. The orders do not come from the troops.

Honestly, I think it's silly to condemn people who join the military to provide for their family and to protect their community & nation.

The "moral position" of the US armed forces is the same now as it has been since the 1940s at least. It makes no sense to reserve particular scorn for those who joined up since 2003.

Where are the voters in all this?

Jäger
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 11:25 AM
Honestly, I think it's silly to condemn people who join the military to provide for their family and to protect their community & nation.
I agree, but what is even more silly, is when someone recognizes that with his service he actually does not protect his community & nation, but is helping destroying it, in her case she even said that she will do what she is told, despite going against her believes, this is sell out of your soul.
Compare http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=58794&postcount=35

As I already said, I can understand mercenaries, and I can understand people who were lead to false believes, who are deceived, what I certainly can't understand is the willingness to help this regime knowing its goals, or not caring for its goals, this makes you either an accomplice, or if you actually don't even care about the goals a mere menial.
No matter what it is, as a person this drastically decreases your worth.

I have the highest respect for those who are willing to die or to go to jail for their beliefs, no matter how idiotic they may be, but to die for others beliefs is degrading yourself to a tool.

Teutonic
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 07:47 PM
I was intrigued by the introduction thread of BrynhildsFate in as much as I was wondering as to why American soldiers are deployed to Germany? Why do they need to be there? What purpose do they serve to the German people, if any? Are they there solely for American gain? Should they still be there? What political goals do they achieve (for America)?

These questions I would like answered by both Americans and Europeans (I'm especially interested in the German opinions) but please keep it civil! Please note that this is not an antagonistic thread!

My opinion is that they don't belong in Germany... there is maybe a tactical advantage to have a "stop over" point but I can't see why they must maintain a military presence there. It seems unjust, by my standpoint.


my opinion is they dont belong in Germany.some of the worst stories of crime, rape etc etc i have heard from towns,cities in Germany where these bases are.

I was at a party when i was 23 and and older guy was there, he was in his 40's telling some of us a story about when he was in Germany as a US soldier. he said that he and some of the other soldiers got into a fight with some Germans in a pub, and that one of his freinds stabbed one of the Germans in the back with a knife, he thought it was kinda funny as well.i was so pissed i wanted to choke him and the rest of my freinds told this idiot to leave the party.the only good thing about the story is that the american GI was charged and went to military jail. but he is i would guess the exception as im sure most dont get prosecuted that do such horrible things. I have heard far worse things from some of my friends in the bundeswehr about american soldiers.

Aptrgangr
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 09:19 PM
I say all foreign troops must leave, the NATO must be disbanded and replaced with mutual non-aggression treaties.
What I read here, like the NATO was protecting us from Islam is idiotic, it is the liberal-democratic ideology of NATO brought us millions of Muslims into our homelands. The military campaigns in A'stan and Iraq are carried out to create more puppet states, nothing else.


I have to say, I can understand mercenaries, I was one too :D

Another one having served in the Bundeswehr :D

Æmeric
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM
I wouldn't recommend enlisting in the US military in 2008 to any 18-year-old. But I have the advantage of age & experience in reflecting on this decision. If not for the endless war on terrorism I would think it would a good choice for several young persons. Many people don't know what they want to do with their lives at 18 & at least doing an enlistment in the military until they decide is better then working a minimum wage job or hanging out at the mall. So what if they get paid? Police & fireman are paid for their services, we don't expect them to risk their lives for free. Doctors & nurses are paid. Forest rangers get paid. If no one considers them scum for taking conpensation for doing their jobs. And as for kids that go to college instead of the military; All public universities are subsidized by the taxpayers. 40-years ago in several states, tuition was free in several state university systems, with students paying for their books & housing. Is it fair to call anyone who went to a public university a freeloader? It isn't right to ridicule or call them names. Those who enlist today certainly show much more character then our current leaders who came of age in the sixities like Cheney & Clinton who weaseled out of the draft, or Bush who cut in line to get into the Texas Air National Guard at a time when the Guard was never sent overseas.

There are some bad apples in the military. This has a lot to do with the DoD diversity & affirmative action programs which encourages certain groups to make the military their career & with over agressive recruiters. But most people who go in on a 3-6 year enlistment are decent people who do not deserve the derision displayed at them by some in this thread.

Oswiu
Wednesday, April 16th, 2008, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't recommend enlisting in the US military in 2008 to any 18-year-old. But I have the advantage of age & experience in reflecting on this decision. If not for the endless war on terrorism I would think it would a good choice for several young persons. Many people don't know what they want to do with their lives at 18 & at least doing an enlistment in the military until they decide is better then working a minimum wage job or hanging out at the mall.
My brother would love to join up. All the family would be delighted. Even our Mother. The only thing stopping him is her belief that it would end up in him getting killed or maimed for nothing. For worse than nothing, in fact. For Muslims, in all likelihood. It's a shocking state of affairs when a patriotic ordinary family openly admit that their Government is fighting a war that has nothing to do with our true interests.

But most people who go in on a 3-6 year enlistment are decent people who do not deserve the derision displayed at them by some in this thread.
Hear hear. Let's have a care for the tone we're employing here.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 06:27 AM
I can in fact say i support my country and will do anything for it but hope for change. If i vote against the people who are in office now my superiors am i wrong. Im in fact not supporting my bosses. I will do things against my own beliefs to serve my country in the way it sees fit for me to. It has given me everything i have.As for me not supporting the war i said if from the begining. I will go and do what they tell me to. If someone asks me if i want the war to end i will say yes. There is nothing wrong with that.
As for the troops not supporting the "war" on mexico well thats a laugh. What do you think we could just be like oh yea lets go do that. Once again its not the troops choice.How can you not see that. Im having a hard time expressing myself without attacking you over the fact that you cant get it through your head that its not like we have pow-wows and decide what were gonna do next! THATS WHY WE VOTE. We are a democracy. Its majority rules. If they would allow me to I would be down there in a second. So would most of my battles
As for the illegals i say give them 4 years mandatory service in the military branch of their choice. Have them take English along with there course and only give them room and board and then give them citizenship. Maybe we would be better off taking a page out of Israels book. Mandatory service for everyone who lives in this country. See what its like to sacrifice your body and mind. Get the fat kids running and the upstanding humanitarians a does of reality.
fyi HOOAH is not ebonics its an army slang (like ooorah for marines)


This part is priceless:
As for the troops not supporting the "war" on mexico well thats a laugh. What do you think we could just be like oh yea lets go do that. Once again its not the troops choice.How can you not see that. Im having a hard time expressing myself without attacking you over the fact that you cant get it through your head that its not like we have pow-wows and decide what were gonna do next! THATS WHY WE VOTE.

I don't know if I can say this without being insulting but I will try. Everyone, every child of ten years old knows that if you join the Army or the Marines, you will end up in Iraq or Afghanistan or both. If you didn't know this when you enlisted, what can I say?

Likewise, everyone who enlists in the Border Patrol knows where he or she is going. There is a 90% probability that they will be stationed on the Mexican border or at a checkpoint a few miles from that border. This is not rocket science.

If you have wanted to defend your country, you would have enlisted in the Border Patrol. Instead, you sought a foreign adventure and are getting what you bargained for. You can blame you plight on others if you wish but it does not have the ring of truth. You are/were in control of your own life. Take responsibility for your decisions.

By the way neither HOOAH nor OORAH are in my English dictionary. I don't remember either Dwight Eisenhower or Audy Murphy saying either one. These are recent ebonic accretions signifying the increasing Negro orientation of our military. I have never heard this insulting utterance from the Border Patrol.

Soten
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 07:02 AM
By the way neither HOOAH nor OORAH are in my English dictionary. I don't remember either Dwight Eisenhower or Audy Murphy saying either one. These are recent ebonic accretions signifying the increasing Negro orientation of our military. I have never heard this insulting utterance from the Border Patrol.

No one knows where the term "Hoo-ah" comes from. It could be a hundred years old according to some theories. Other theories suggest it was first used in Vietnam when American soldiers would mix in Vietnamese to their speech. "Hu-ah" simply means "yes" in Vietnamese.

In any case, it most certainly is not from Blacks. Possibly a Vietnamese word used by Vietnam War era Marines or something more remote in American military history, but definitely not Blacks.

Have you ever heard Blacks who haven't been in the military say "Hoo-ah"? I doubt it.

Jäger
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 07:52 AM
No one knows where the term "Hoo-ah" comes from.
You took it from us?
The Prussian army war cry was in part "Hurra", at least since the 18th century.
"Hurra" sounds the same as "Hoo-ah" just without the capability to speak the "rr" :p
In Germany it always has been a common expression of joy, like "Hurra, Hurra die Schule brennt" [ Yippee, yippee, the school is burning ] ;)
The actual war cry of the Prussians was "Attacke Hurra" [ Yippee, let's attack, I am full of joy to destroy ] :D

Here you can listen to it in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFRxREFV5BY
(btw. this is a song about the old GDR :D, despite their Bolshevist and anti-fascists attitude I somehow like this band :))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56sZ5kEWroM
(And this is the "School is burning" song)

I hear the Russians use "Urääää" [phonetically speaking] which sounds like Hurra too, high chance they have taken it from Prussians, like so many things.

Ossi
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 08:06 AM
Hurra is NOT ebonic Negro language, we used it in the GDR and in the GDR nonsense like ebonics was forbidden. Here's an example of people going hurrah in the GDR, towards the end. Even party officials used it.

DfFwQkiHo2w

Hurra Stalin. I bloody hate Stalin, but you get the drift.

NktFe1lPHvw

Not to mention that bands weren't even allowed to sing in English so there was no flow of ebonics in our country. :rolleyes:

Jäger
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Hurra is NOT ebonic Negro language
It was about "Hoo-ah" though, and somehow it is not the word, but how it is used which could make it Nigger-Style, Niggers use guns, Europeans use them too, however how they do it is their own Nigger-Style and the most embarrassing thing is when we try to imitate them.
http://www.fmft.net/archives/gangsta1/gangsta%201.JPG
https://forum.thiazi.net/showthread.php?t=90837&page=61

stormlord
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 09:33 AM
You took it from us?
The Prussian army war cry was in part "Hurra", at least since the 18th century.
"Hurra" sounds the same as "Hoo-ah" just without the capability to speak the "rr" :p
In Germany it always has been a common expression of joy, like "Hurra, Hurra die Schule brennt" [ Yippee, yippee, the school is burning ] ;)
The actual war cry of the Prussians was "Attacke Hurra" [ Yippee, let's attack, I am full of joy to destroy ] :D

Here you can listen to it in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFRxREFV5BY
(btw. this is a song about the old GDR :D, despite their Bolshevist and anti-fascists attitude I somehow like this band :))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56sZ5kEWroM
(And this is the "School is burning" song)

I hear the Russians use "Urääää" [phonetically speaking] which sounds like Hurra too, high chance they have taken it from Prussians, like so many things.


Hurrah is a fairly well known British phrase as well, so I wouldn't necessarily say it was Prussian in inspiration, similar to hooray, and an exclamation of victory, excitement etc. It's a bit archaic in the UK now but we said it a lot at school, and you can still hear it said commonly at the older public schools and in the army.

Jäger
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Hurrah is a fairly well known British phrase as well, so I wouldn't necessarily say it was Prussian in inspiration, similar to hooray, and an exclamation of victory, excitement etc.
Nah, I didn't want to say it were Prussian by origin, it is a Germanic word, used before the Prussians, but the Prussians used it as their "official" battle cry.

BrynhildsFate
Thursday, April 17th, 2008, 10:50 AM
This part is priceless:
As for the troops not supporting the "war" on mexico well thats a laugh. What do you think we could just be like oh yea lets go do that. Once again its not the troops choice.How can you not see that. Im having a hard time expressing myself without attacking you over the fact that you cant get it through your head that its not like we have pow-wows and decide what were gonna do next! THATS WHY WE VOTE.

I don't know if I can say this without being insulting but I will try. Everyone, every child of ten years old knows that if you join the Army or the Marines, you will end up in Iraq or Afghanistan or both. If you didn't know this when you enlisted, what can I say?
Likewise, everyone who enlists in the Border Patrol knows where he or she is going. There is a 90% probability that they will be stationed on the Mexican border or at a checkpoint a few miles from that border. This is not rocket science.

If you have wanted to defend your country, you would have enlisted in the Border Patrol. Instead, you sought a foreign adventure and are getting what you bargained for. You can blame you plight on others if you wish but it does not have the ring of truth. You are/were in control of your own life. Take responsibility for your decisions.

By the way neither HOOAH nor OORAH are in my English dictionary. I don't remember either Dwight Eisenhower or Audy Murphy saying either one. These are recent ebonic accretions signifying the increasing Negro orientation of our military. I have never heard this insulting utterance from the Border Patrol.

You can blame you plight on others if you wish but it does not have the ring of truth.

When did i even say blame my going to Iraq on anybody? When did i even say i was in distress over it? I believe i said i am going to serve my country not oh poor me how did this happen? I might be nervous but hell who wouldn't be. Thats the natural feeling when going into a situation like that(unless your a marine haha)
And when you join your not defiantly going to Iraq. My job has a better chance of being deployed to Korea. Children of 10 wouldn't know this for they are kids and unawares in the world of war.
Plus why don't you join the border patrol? All you can do is talk about how they really serve our country. Why don't you get up and do some thing and be proactive. (P.S. I am from Northeast PA so border patrol yea not really something thought as a reality around here. Plus they want people who already have a military or law enforcement background)

As for all the people who gave the Dr. a History lesson on Hooah not being an ebonic term thank you.Yet another version,the phonetic spelling of the military acronym HUA, which stands for "Heard Understood Acknowledged." This one i feel is total bullshit but you never know.
We say Hooah as a anything but no answer,Hoorah as a part of marching cadence(oorahs for devil dog marines,id say something degrading about the meatheads but my boyfriends one :D)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, April 18th, 2008, 05:02 AM
You can blame you plight on others if you wish but it does not have the ring of truth.

When did i even say blame my going to Iraq on anybody? When did i even say i was in distress over it? I believe i said i am going to serve my country not oh poor me how did this happen? I might be nervous but hell who wouldn't be. Thats the natural feeling when going into a situation like that(unless your a marine haha)
And when you join your not defiantly going to Iraq. My job has a better chance of being deployed to Korea. Children of 10 wouldn't know this for they are kids and unawares in the world of war.
Plus why don't you join the border patrol? All you can do is talk about how they really serve our country. Why don't you get up and do some thing and be proactive. (P.S. I am from Northeast PA so border patrol yea not really something thought as a reality around here. Plus they want people who already have a military or law enforcement background)

As for all the people who gave the Dr. a History lesson on Hooah not being an ebonic term thank you.Yet another version,the phonetic spelling of the military acronym HUA, which stands for "Heard Understood Acknowledged." This one i feel is total bullshit but you never know.
We say Hooah as a anything but no answer,Hoorah as a part of marching cadence(oorahs for devil dog marines,id say something degrading about the meatheads but my boyfriends one :D)

This is not Hooah as commonly pronounced or used. This is a whole new expression which has surfaced in the US military within the last few years. The first time I heard it was from black basketball teams from the Mid-Atlantic region. The next class to pick it up was the US military. It is definitely an ebonic word. You are misleading our European friends and you know it. Of course, you can prove me wong. Just point me to one example of Dwight Eisenhower using the term (Army) or Audy Murphy (Marines) using the term.

So, let me see, you went form self-righteous Support the Troops to I didn't know I was going to Iraq to I don't support the war to I have no control over my life to I am not nervous. Now you want me to join the Border Patrol since you admit this war (Mexico not Terrorism) is real. Believe me, I would love to join.

Yes, that Northeast PA. thing is a real problem for this country. Not Northeast PA. itself but the insulation which you still have in recognizing our real problems in the USA. Don't worry, when you get out of the military a Mexican will probably have your old warehouse job and they will want you to become "bilingual" as a condition to get it back.

BrynhildsFate, you are one of millions of young Americans who think the way you do. This is shallow thinking. I would never have said what I have said if you had not attacked me regarding the US troops in Germany. This was not a personal attack upon you but you seem to have taken it that way. I have said just about everything I intend to say on this subject so I will let you have the last word on it.

Schmetterling
Friday, April 18th, 2008, 05:12 AM
It's obvious. American soldiers are present on German soil to monitor and control Germany. It's a punishment. Well, I have news. The war is over. Time to go home, boys.

Guntwachar
Friday, April 18th, 2008, 05:44 AM
It's obvious. American soldiers are present on German soil to monitor and control Germany. It's a punishment. Well, I have news. The war is over. Time to go home, boys.

The Americans are in almost ever country in Europe they are on bases in The Netherlands,Belgium,Germany,England,Pola nd,France etc..

Dont know if its realy to control Germany alone more to control Europe then:o

Soten
Friday, April 18th, 2008, 06:01 AM
We (Americans) have bases all over the world. I think it's more about being able to respond to anything anywhere at a moment's notice. Personally, I don't like it, but I don't think it's about trying to control Germany or something.

Suppressing dissent from any corner of the globe if need be is more like it...

So it's controlling in a certain way but it's more of a "keeping things in check" manner than in an "actively dominate any given country" way.

Teutonic
Saturday, April 19th, 2008, 08:27 AM
We (Americans) have bases all over the world. I think it's more about being able to respond to anything anywhere at a moment's notice. Personally, I don't like it, but I don't think it's about trying to control Germany or something.

Suppressing dissent from any corner of the globe if need be is more like it...

So it's controlling in a certain way but it's more of a "keeping things in check" manner than in an "actively dominate any given country" way.



In a perfect world that might be true. But America does control the countries that they are in to some aspect. i mean look at Germany and all the American things that are inside of it, this is because of the American presence and influence. Till was right everyone is living in America, whether they want to or not.Not to mention that the German government is nothing more than a puppet government set up by the USA, same goes for Japan.The war is over get out.Why do you think mulitculture is such a popular trend in Europe?thats American PC influence.i might be wrong but thats how i see it.

Ive seen as an American the lack of my German Culture and Heritage being diluted here in the USA.Thank god i grew up next to Neu Ulm, MN.There is more to my people than Oktoberfest,atleast my Prussian Opa thought so. I dont want to see America have any influence on Europe for the simple fact that i want my children and grand children too see Germany as it should be, and that is German. not filled with mcdonalds/burger king and Döner kebab shops.I feal the same for the rest of mother Europe.

America needs to realize we can have relations with European countries without trying to control them.That is my perfect world.

Bärin
Saturday, April 19th, 2008, 09:01 AM
Suppressing dissent from any corner of the globe if need be is more like it...

So it's controlling in a certain way but it's more of a "keeping things in check" manner than in an "actively dominate any given country" way.
I'd have said something about this but I found a quote that says it better than I.

"'Never again war!' was the European peoples' popular and understandable slogan after WW2. But since May 8, 1945 there has not been one single day where there was no war, somewhere in the world... No fewer than 200 wars and revolutions have been recorded world-wide in the past years (and some continue to this day), without Germany having been involved. The victor nations of World War Two, the Russians, the Americans, the British and the French, have all participated in these wars - and in the role of aggressors! Only the Germans have not been involved - yet they continue to be considered belligerent militarists and disturbers of the peace."
- Hans Werner Woltersdorf, From: Hinter den Kulissen der Politik. Was die Deutschen nicht wissen sollen (http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/deutsch/seiten/0733hint.html), p. 69f.

Eustaqius
Saturday, April 19th, 2008, 02:19 PM
It is elementary. Germany is still occupied. There is an occupation, a military occupation of Germany since 1945. If that is not so, what are those ... troops doing in Europe, squatting in their military bases in Germany and in the Balkans ? They must go home to America, they must leave European soil. Europe must free herself from the occupation.

DanseMacabre
Sunday, June 29th, 2008, 02:57 AM
If I had my way American soldiers wouldn't be in Germany or any other nation. They'd be in America defending it from mestizo invaders. After non-Germanics are removed that is.

Octothorpe
Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008, 05:33 PM
This part is priceless:
As for the troops not supporting the "war" on mexico well thats a laugh. What do you think we could just be like oh yea lets go do that. Once again its not the troops choice.How can you not see that. Im having a hard time expressing myself without attacking you over the fact that you cant get it through your head that its not like we have pow-wows and decide what were gonna do next! THATS WHY WE VOTE.

I don't know if I can say this without being insulting but I will try. Everyone, every child of ten years old knows that if you join the Army or the Marines, you will end up in Iraq or Afghanistan or both. If you didn't know this when you enlisted, what can I say?

Likewise, everyone who enlists in the Border Patrol knows where he or she is going. There is a 90% probability that they will be stationed on the Mexican border or at a checkpoint a few miles from that border. This is not rocket science.

If you have wanted to defend your country, you would have enlisted in the Border Patrol. Instead, you sought a foreign adventure and are getting what you bargained for. You can blame you plight on others if you wish but it does not have the ring of truth. You are/were in control of your own life. Take responsibility for your decisions.

By the way neither HOOAH nor OORAH are in my English dictionary. I don't remember either Dwight Eisenhower or Audy Murphy saying either one. These are recent ebonic accretions signifying the increasing Negro orientation of our military. I have never heard this insulting utterance from the Border Patrol.

You are mistaken on the derivation of "hooah"/"oorah." Both phrases are transliterations of the Russian phrase "urragh," a declamation of approbation. It was most likely picked up by American soldiers from their Russian counterparts during the end-phase of the Second World War. Ironic, as the Cold War made immediate enemies of both nations.

Octothorpe
Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008, 05:43 PM
It's obvious. American soldiers are present on German soil to monitor and control Germany. It's a punishment. Well, I have news. The war is over. Time to go home, boys.

It is also quite obvious that the German people, through their government, could evict American forces at any time (if a piss-ant nation like the Philippines could do it, so could Germany). However, for many decades the American taxpayer paid the bill for the defense of Western Europe. Yes, American troops should be redeployed out of Europe; it is high time that the Europeans paid for their own defense.

We should also destroy the bases as we leave--it wouldn't be prudent to leave them intact for the mullahs to use when Europe is converted to Islam (the demographics are incontrovertable). If those of you on this board are unwilling to become dhimmis in your own homeland, start fighting now or emigrate.

Scear
Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008, 06:02 PM
The Americans still maintain a presence in Germany because of the strategic value of their military bases. Simple. The German government won't tell them to get the hell out as did the Filipinos, because the German government and the German economy have become dependent on the American presence, and there are , no doubt, many clauses and agreements within the post war treaties granting America unlimited, indefinate access to German soil for military purposes.

And there is the fact that the German government are a bunch of self-loathing, boot licking toadies.

.Scear

Leonhardt
Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008, 06:24 PM
I think Germany is simply being occupied, but also there are spy stations.
http://www.cyber-rights.org/interception/echelon/echelon.jpg
http://securitybureau.blogspot.com/2006/11/echelon-locations-list.html





By Bo Elkjaer and Kenan Seeburg

GERMAN SPIES: ECHELON EXISTS
For 18 months now, Germany's intelligence service has issued warnings against Echelon's industrial espionage
http://cryptome.org/echelon-de-spy.htm

Scear
Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008, 06:26 PM
Germany is in such a sad state. The American presence is simply one among many ills. By the way; When are those 'Guest workers' going home?

.Scear

Kriegersohn
Saturday, July 5th, 2008, 09:46 AM
It's obvious. American soldiers are present on German soil to monitor and control Germany. It's a punishment. Well, I have news. The war is over. Time to go home, boys.

The bases in Germany are strategic and for training, not for monitoring or controlling. The German government and the communities where the bases were didn't like it when the US pulled out the entire 1st Infantry Division and shut down Rhein-Main AFB. There have been further protests from the government when the US was looking at other countries to move to. I was stationed there and loved it...visited my family in Berlin, ex-girlfriend was from Leipzig and stayed there quite often, went to Externstiene to get my spiritual "center", wandered up to Dittmarschen in Schleswig-Holstein to visit my father's side of the family, etc, etc. The only problem I had was after coming off 30 days of leave in country and another 45 days in the box dealing with German civilians, my English got really, really crappy... :D

FFF
Ragnar

PS: In regards to other conversation dealing with the word "Hooah", to the Doc...my great-uncle used the word back in WW2 while fighting in the Pacific (yes, he stuck to his guns and refused to fight against Germany, he didn't want to risk killing his cousins...I'm sure that earned him a black mark somewhere higher up). Its uses and meanings can vary these days depending on the situation, stress and inflection (ie: Yes, no, damn I'm motivated today, yeah I f**kin' got it already, whatever, etc, etc). :ner-ner0:

Tarnhari
Saturday, July 5th, 2008, 08:34 PM
I was intrigued by the introduction thread of BrynhildsFate in as much as I was wondering as to why American soldiers are deployed to Germany? Why do they need to be there? What purpose do they serve to the German people, if any? Are they there solely for American gain? Should they still be there? What political goals do they achieve (for America)?

These questions I would like answered by both Americans and Europeans (I'm especially interested in the German opinions) but please keep it civil! Please note that this is not an antagonistic thread!

My opinion is that they don't belong in Germany... there is maybe a tactical advantage to have a "stop over" point but I can't see why they must maintain a military presence there. It seems unjust, by my standpoint.

They are an army of occupation and their continuing presence on German soil is to remind Germans and all Aryans about the hegemony of the zionist forces and their enforcement of the zionist-capitalist New World Order.
A large number of negro soldiers also ensures that the planned miscegenation of Germans continues unabated.

Kreis AnnA
Saturday, July 5th, 2008, 10:27 PM
The American mission is stop Jihad from entering the United States. It also secures the flow of oil from the Sunni Gulf States to the rest of the world. If not Germany, then Romania or Bulgaria. In the meantime, I think knee jerk reactions against this mission are inevitable because many Europeans have been forced to accommodate Islam by their own leaders. I know Americans didn't want to fight Germany but did so to helf England. And I know that Germans and other Europeans would have been speaking Russian if Soviets weren't stopped. If some American generals would have had their way, Germany would have been annihilated altogether, as it would have been turned into an epic wasteland in the cause of defeating Bolshevism, which was a goal of German National Socialism. These realities take ugly turns for everyone involved.

Reactively, in order to appear Anti-American and unbeholden to American interests, some European nationalists became Pro-Arab, falling for the memes of Arab mob mentality. This is the rule of Semites of a different persuasion, but Semite nevertheless. Why does the ruse of the Mullahs suddenly becomes the battle cry of the dispossessed? Because Anglo-American interests do not exclude the participation of Jews from furthering the expansion of the Anglosphere, which in its fullest extent is diametricly opposed to Islam in constitution and manifestation. Meanwhile because millions of Americans buy electricity from National Grid, their groceries from a German supermarket conglomerate, and their gasoline from Shell, millions of Germanics get to live better lives, and all of us can afford internet access to discuss important matters like preservation.

(And what kind of self-respect sends a very few German women into the arms of some Black American soldiers?) The Arab melodrama, with all it's ugly discontents, is being played out on European soil. That's one thing you can't blame Americans for.;) I understand that Russian Jewish mafiosos get paid by Turks who use valuable German aquired Euros to buy Ukrainian women. Even Jews freely admit that in many ways, Jews and Arabs are similar.

I would never accept dhimmitude and Sharia as I would never obey Jewish law or place it on equal or special footing with The Common Law. Jews do a miserable job of governing themselves, much less anyone else.

Jäger
Sunday, July 6th, 2008, 08:46 AM
If not Germany, then Romania or Bulgaria.
Romania or Bulgaria! :)


And I know that Germans and other Europeans would have been speaking Russian if Soviets weren't stopped.
:confused: Half of Germany did speak Russian exactly because America/England/etc. helped Russia. Not to mention that many Europeans spoke Russian, do you mean West-Europeans?


Meanwhile because millions of Americans buy electricity from National Grid, their groceries from a German supermarket conglomerate, and their gasoline from Shell, millions of Germanics get to live better lives, and all of us can afford internet access to discuss important matters like preservation.
It is in no way better to be dependent on today's America than to be dependent on today's Arabs, quite the contrary.
And if being dependent on America also means tolerating their occupational forces, then all the way for the Arabs.


The Arab melodrama, with all it's ugly discontents, is being played out on European soil. That's one thing you can't blame Americans for. ;)
As a German I can, since Americans broke war conventions by helping instilling laws which contradicted the then-current social laws of the occupied country.


I understand that Russian Jewish mafiosos get paid by Turks who use valuable German aquired Euros to buy Ukrainian women. Even Jews freely admit that in many ways, Jews and Arabs are similar.
Turks are no Arabs.


I would never accept dhimmitude and Sharia as I would never obey Jewish law or place it on equal or special footing with The Common Law.
So right now you are happy with your legislation, because you accept it?

Boernician
Sunday, July 6th, 2008, 09:47 AM
Well the Us has over 1000 bases around the world. 99% of which are almost pointless. If the German government wanted them gone they would be gone. The troops bring large amounts of money to some German community's,two they are there to protect the flow of oil and nothing more really.
International corporations have huge control over both country's do not kid yourself. Germans have billions of dollars invested in US land and company's. The Dutch do as well.
It's all international capitalism. The true days of nation states are pretty much over. Why do you think they allow ail these Turks,etc into the country,or Mexicans in America. Why do our governments allow are people to be displaced and tyrannized by minority's simple. The government works for the corporations not for citizens. Cheap labor is good.

I fear Germans martial spirits have been gelded like most other Europeans the Scandinavian country's. Guilt guilt guilt. Americans area barbarians but barbarians will fight.Barbarians love to fight.In America we train every boy to be a killer ,from the time he is old enough to breathe, war, guns, killing.

Americans are never taught the truth no one ever tells them about the 2.1 million German civilians that died in forced exodus from Eastern Europe,something the US and Britain completely agreed with.You can not blame American citizens though they have been indoctrinated since they were four years old.

France asked the US to leave and they did. No they want the Barbarians there just like Rome wanted the Goths in their army. The real alliance with Israel is over Oil not a love of Jews. I suspect is actually American speculators behind the Oil prices. Why? Because once the proce of gasoline gows up to say $ 7.00 a gallon it become profitable to process oil from shale.
The US has two trillion barrels of Oil in shale. Yes thats Two Trillion!!

Jäger
Sunday, July 6th, 2008, 11:33 AM
If the German government wanted them gone they would be gone.
The German government does a lot of things that a ditrimental to German interestst, why do you think they do so?

Kreis AnnA
Sunday, July 6th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Romania or Bulgaria! :)


:confused: Half of Germany did speak Russian exactly because America/England/etc. helped Russia. Not to mention that many Europeans spoke Russian, do you mean West-Europeans?

Russophiles and Slavs spoke or understood Russians. And certainly easier for West Slavs like Poles than Germans. Unless you are referring to the various Courts of the 18th and 19th century. Otherwise, wasn't it Lingua Franca, even in Russia? France was able to absorb intra-European migration (from all parts of Europe) in the 19th century because of its dominance as a second language. For others, I know it was German. I'm not familiar with the extent of Russian speaking outside its spheres of influence and trading partners.




It is in no way better to be dependent on today's America than to be dependent on today's Arabs, quite the contrary.
And if being dependent on America also means tolerating their occupational forces, then all the way for the Arabs.

As a German I can, since Americans broke war conventions by helping instilling laws which contradicted the then-current social laws of the occupied country.

I imagine you can't wait to pay taxes because you won't be bowing to Mecca, or will you ?;) Seriously Jäger, I'm sorry if you feel your being occupied. Or that the English language has been imposed on you. Or that German industry invests so much money in American manufacturing facilities that pay less than their American counterparts have in the past, while taking profits back to Germany. There is great contradiction in many areas of economic and political life, out of all of our hands. You can't even tell who is dependent on whom, anymore. And I'm not being sarcastic:

German foreign investment patterns:

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-4962.html

I never understood why Germany hasn't taken a complete role for its own security, especially since the collapse of the Soviets. I certainly don't want to see Americans do it, much less interfere with German social development.



So right now you are happy with your legislation, because you accept it?

No. I was vocally against both Gulf Wars, to no avail.

Kreis AnnA
Monday, July 7th, 2008, 12:47 AM
Americans are never taught the truth no one ever tells them about the 2.1 million German civilians that died in forced exodus from Eastern Europe,something the US and Britain completely agreed with.You can not blame American citizens though they have been indoctrinated since they were four years old.

France asked the US to leave and they did. No they want the Barbarians there just like Rome wanted the Goths in their army. The real alliance with Israel is over Oil not a love of Jews. I suspect is actually American speculators behind the Oil prices. Why? Because once the proce of gasoline gows up to say $ 7.00 a gallon it become profitable to process oil from shale.
The US has two trillion barrels of Oil in shale. Yes thats Two Trillion!!

That shale was marketable at $50 a barrel. It remains untouched except for wild cat venture companies. What it seems (that also has not been learned) is that many Germans were saved by changing their identities and getting them to the US while all those laws regarding "Nazis" were enforced in Germany. Some of us are living testaments to this sort of preservation. As that type of American, I bow to no one, wherever they were born and raised. I come to this forum as a result of the Second World War, not the war being simply incidental to my family's history. I respect the suffering and pain that was caused on all sides. But the blood of my family and their sacrifice carries on in me. Maybe like the grandchild of Johnny Reb?

SouthernBoy
Monday, July 7th, 2008, 01:13 AM
It is in no way better to be dependent on today's America than to be dependent on today's Arabs, quite the contrary.
And if being dependent on America also means tolerating their occupational forces, then all the way for the Arabs. Be careful what you wish for.

Aptrgangr
Monday, July 7th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Be careful what you wish for.


...or you bring us democracy? :D

BrynhildsFate
Tuesday, July 8th, 2008, 12:27 AM
i have found most Germans do not mind me being here as a soldier though some had things to say about Bush but i myself have a few words for him. Plus most people hear me speaking English and talk to me. They dont let me practice my German i guess they like trying out there English! They all know where the bases are and we rarely have problems with protesters, we just get the hippie types complaining about us polluting

Boernician
Tuesday, July 8th, 2008, 06:38 AM
That shale was marketable at $50 a barrel. It remains untouched except for wild cat venture companies. What it seems (that also has not been learned) is that many Germans were saved by changing their identities and getting them to the US while all those laws regarding "Nazis" were enforced in Germany. Some of us are living testaments to this sort of preservation. As that type of American, I bow to no one, wherever they were born and raised. I come to this forum as a result of the Second World War, not the war being simply incidental to my family's history. I respect the suffering and pain that was caused on all sides. But the blood of my family and their sacrifice carries on in me. Maybe like the grandchild of Johnny Reb?

As a great grandson of Johnny Eckardt a Sargent in the 27th Virginia Infantry CSA the Immortal Stonewall Brigade. I appreciate you words.
Yes and during WWI we were forced to alter the spelling of our name so it did not look Germanic. When I do genealogy for people I cant tell you how many names I see that were German and got changed, Miller for Muller,Vogel to Vaughn,Boheme to Beam,Spilker to Spiller. These are names that were changed in WWI,of people whose ancestry I worked on.

CrystalRose
Tuesday, July 8th, 2008, 06:47 AM
I'd rather my soldiers be at home, then out trying to save/intimidate the world. We have issues here in the states that need to be taken care of. Other countries can defend their own land.

Bridie
Tuesday, July 15th, 2008, 02:30 PM
My brother was in the Dutch army and placed on a base in Germany around the same base were also American,English,Belgian,Canadian and Australian soldiers

Are you sure there were Australian soldiers there?? :confused:

beowulf wodenson
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Close the bases down. Had I my way, we'd not only withdraw all forces from Germany, but Japan, Korea, etc. that are a huge waste and tax burden on Americans, also unwelcome by the natives of those countries no longer our enemies.
The U.S. was supposed to be a republic; not an overstretched, costly empire that those bases are part of.

Ard Ri
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 08:38 PM
...which our beloved new president could make, but obviously will not. Remove the American occupation forces from Germany, and bring home the thousands stationed all over the world to no good effect. Save us a few billion dollars a year. Of course he'd turn around and give it to the Wall Street bankers or send it to Israel. Just kidding, I'm sure the money we saved would be used for something constructive.;)

forkbeard
Sunday, January 11th, 2009, 11:03 PM
The American soldiers are there to produce half castes, just as the Romans intended. 750.000 they hd produced, last time I heard.

johnereb
Sunday, January 11th, 2009, 11:16 PM
It would be good to see a wise and strong German leader find a way to get the occupying forces out of Germany. Consider how many years it has now been since the end of WWII and the excuse of a need to have American forces in Germany to defend against the Soviet Union is obviously no longer valid.

It's time to allow Germany to govern itself and to allow it's own armed forces the dignity of defending the Fatherland themselves.

BrynhildsFate
Wednesday, January 14th, 2009, 11:20 PM
We are not in Germany to defend it. Though if German was attacked we would(they would need the help with their strictly defensive at times poorly trained army). We are using Germany as a European training ground and a spot to launch our troops off into the middle east. We are shutting down more bases all the time northern Germany being completely devoid of any Army Installations.

TheGreatest
Wednesday, January 14th, 2009, 11:24 PM
The American soldiers are there to produce half castes, just as the Romans intended. 750.000 they hd produced, last time I heard.


I met some of these half caste and even soldiers who served in the 70's living in Germany. A black man I met in downtown Berlin was a US veteran and a pimp. I'm sure a lot of people in Berlin have seen him cause he wears gold jewelry, black as coal and obese.

Haereticus
Sunday, January 18th, 2009, 10:45 AM
... the establishment of a permanent American and NATO presence to counter the threat of communism, and later, Islam...

America and NATO supported and encouraged Islamic expansion in and into Europe with its attacks on Serbia. They effectively gave air support to Muslim invaders.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/02/kosovonew_musli.php

Mac Seafraidh
Sunday, January 18th, 2009, 11:58 AM
http://www.forzanuova.org/img/Locandina_YankeeGoHome%5B1%5D.jpg

Jäger
Sunday, January 18th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Here a little Bolshevist propaganda :) :

EPBfBbKfYIQ

Go home Ami, Ami go home

Text: Ernst Busch, 1952
Music: "God Save Ireland" (George F. Root; arr. Hanns Eisler)

Sagt was ist das Leben wert,
wenn allein regiert das Schwert
und die ganze Welt zerfällt in totem Sand,
aber das wird nicht geschehen,
denn wir wollen nicht untergehen
und so rufen wir durch unser deutsches Land:

Go home Ami Ami go home,
spalte für den Frieden dein Atom,
sag Goodbye dem Vater Rhein,
rühr nicht an sein Töchterlein,
Loreley solang du singst wird Deutschland sein.

Clay und Cloy aus USA,
sind für die Etappe da,
solln die german boys verrecken in dem Sand.
Noch sind hier die Waffen kalt,
doch der Friede wird nicht alt,
hält nicht jeder schützend über ihn die Hand.

Go home Ami Ami go home,
spalte für den Frieden dein Atom,
sag Goodbye dem Vater Rhein,
rühr nicht an sein Töchterlein,
Loreley solang du singst wird Deutschland sein.

Ami lern die Melodei
von der Jungfrau Loreley,
die dort oben sitzt und kämmt ihr goldnes Haar.
Wer den Kamm ihr bricht in zwei,
bricht sich selbst das Genick dabei,
uralt ist das Märchen, traurig aber wahr!

Go home Ami Ami go home,
lass in Ruh den deutschen Strom,
denn für deinen way of life,
kriegst du uns ja doch nicht reif,
Gruß vom Lorchen vom Plaisir, der Kamm bleibt hier.

Ami hör auf guten Rat,
bleib auf deinem Längengrad,
denn dein Marshall bringt uns zu viel Kriegsgefahr.
Auch der Frieden fordert Kampf,
setzt die Kessel unter Dampf,
Anker hoch das Schiff Ahoi, der Kurs ist klar.

Go home Ami Ami go home,
spalte für den Frieden dein Atom,
sag Goodbye dem Vater Rhein,
rühr nicht an sein Töchterlein,
Loreley solang du singst wird Deutschland sein.


English translation:

Say, what is a life worth,
if the sword alone reigns
and the whole world falls into dead sand,
but this will never happen,
since we do want not to perish
and therefore we shout through our German land:

Go home Yank, Yank go home,
fission your atoms for peace,
say goodbye to father Rhine,
do not touch his little daughter,
Loreley, as long as you sing, Germany will continue to exist.

Clay(1) and Cloy(2) from USA,
are only good for the home front,
the German boys shall perish in the sand.
Still the weapons are cold,
but peace will not get old,
if not everybody holds his protecting hand over it.

Go home Yank, Yank go home,
fission your atoms for peace,
say goodbye to father Rhine,
do not touch his little daughter,
Loreley, as long as you sing, Germany will continue to exist.

Yankee, learn the melody
of the virgin Loreley,
who sits up there and who combs her golden hair.
Who tries to break her comb to pieces,
will break his own neck,
an ancient fairy tale, sad but true!

Go home Yank, Yank go home,
leave alone the German river,
since you will never be able
to get us ripe for your way of life,
greetings from happy Lory, but the comb remains here.

Yankee, hear this good advice,
stay on your own meridian,
since your Marshall(3) brings too many danger of war.
Also peace needs fight,
put the engines under steam,
Anchors aweigh, ship ahoy, the course is clear.

Go home Yank, Yank go home,
fission your atoms for peace,
say goodbye to father Rhine,
do not touch his little daughter,
Loreley, as long as you sing, Germany will continue to exist.

(1) General Lucius D. Clay (military governor of the U.S. zone in Germany until 1949)
(2) John Jay McCloy (U.S. High Commissioner for Germany 1949-1952)
(3) General George Catlett Marshall, Jr. (U.S. Secretary of State 1947-1949 and "father" of the Marshall Plan for rebuilding the allied countries of Europe and repelling communism after World War II - certainly a reason why he was disliked by the East German ruling communists)

http://www.nationalanthems.us/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1167590702

Haereticus
Sunday, January 18th, 2009, 04:46 PM
We are not in Germany to defend it. Though if German was attacked we would(they would need the help with their strictly defensive at times poorly trained army) ...

I imagined that the Bundeswehr was well trained and well equipped. I had friends in the British armed forces who often took part in NATO military exercises involving multi-national forces. I was told that the US Army always came last in competitions. I was also told that it contained a large number of barely coherent africans who gave an impression of being intellectually 'challenged' (not the exact term used). This may or may not be true. For many years I believed this to be factually correct. Can anyone shine more light on this?

BrynhildsFate
Monday, January 19th, 2009, 03:11 PM
I imagined that the Bundeswehr was well trained and well equipped. I had friends in the British armed forces who often took part in NATO military exercises involving multi-national forces. I was told that the US Army always came last in competitions. I was also told that it contained a large number of barely coherent africans who gave an impression of being intellectually 'challenged' (not the exact term used). This may or may not be true. For many years I believed this to be factually correct. Can anyone shine more light on this?

The German army is strictly defensive. They still have rules and regulations to follow after WWII. I have friends that are career soldiers in the Bundeswehr(quite different from the conscripts forced into service) who constantly complain about poor equipment. There training has become a summer camp, the instructing soldiers not even allowed to punish them with physical exercise (pushups,sit-ups). I have personally fired the German weapons systems and dont really have much to say bad about the equipment other then they could do with an updated machine gun. I found it harder to qual on, receiving a silver ribbon because of it instead of the gold i would have earned with my marksman ship on the rifle and pistol.

I do not in any way shape or form belive that the American army is hands down the best army but we do ok ;). I have been in competitions with soldiers from other armies and we rarely finished last in anything. But the british army really is top-notch and i have had some good times training with them!


Maybe you need to stop seeing it as envading your space and start seeing it as more of a positive.

6 reasons to calm down about our bases!

1. Our numbers are quite small now. We have around 60,000 with around 11,000 of them deployed at any given time.
2. German citizens are employed on base and make better pay than me!
3.We do not harm German citizens.
4.If you are ever in conflict will will come to the aid of your small defensive army as we are now allies:thumbup.
5.We spend most of our money in your country which helps your economy .
6.We are not immigrating here like the turks. We do our time and get going. (Sure a few might stay but thats not the majority at all.)
How are we really hurting your country?
We are no longer occupying you per say. We have our bases here for training and to launch off into the middle east and deal with the muslim problem.
As for your claim of half-caste maybe you should blame the German floozies who are doing it rather than a whole country. Obviously they find its acceptable in their society to sleep with black/hispanic men. How about some blame on their parents! I am around other races all the time and have no desire to sleep with them. The other thing is most of these half breeds i see are leaving Germany to go back to the states therefore removing the problem from your country . The female was obviously no lose to your gene pool if her intelligence level was low enough to make a choice like that!

Haereticus
Tuesday, January 20th, 2009, 01:08 PM
...Maybe you need to stop seeing it as envading your space and start seeing it as more of a positive.

It's very hard to accept foreign military bases in a positive light. Even if they are bases of allies with shared aims, it's still slightly demeaning. Imposition of popular American culture (Hollywood and MTV for example) and the ethnic makeup of US forces are other reasons it's hard to celebrate their presence, despite the positives you point out.

BrynhildsFate
Tuesday, January 20th, 2009, 01:33 PM
It's very hard to accept foreign military bases in a positive light. Even if they are bases of allies with shared aims, it's still slightly demeaning. Imposition of popular American culture (Hollywood and MTV for example) and the ethnic makeup of US forces are other reasons it's hard to celebrate their presence, despite the positives you point out.
I can see the slightly demeaning part. sorry : (

It didnt take American soldiers for American culture to be popular over here. The youth over here seem to love anything American they can get their German hands on. Music , TV , movies and clothing. I see German gangsta boys and laugh what ghetto are they from? They have never even meet Americans before and they are doing that so don't blame us for that.

The ethnic makeup of our race shouldn't really be a problem if your females valued there heritage more. I see no problem with other races visiting other countries and such for work or play as long as they leave after or stay to their own kind. It takes 2 to tango they say. So if German females are doing the horizontal hustle with me of different races wether their American or not it is their choice....

Haereticus
Tuesday, January 20th, 2009, 05:24 PM
I can see the slightly demeaning part. sorry : (

It didnt take American soldiers for American culture to be popular over here. The youth over here seem to love anything American they can get their German hands on. Music , TV , movies and clothing. I see German gangsta boys and laugh what ghetto are they from? They have never even meet Americans before and they are doing that so don't blame us for that.

The ethnic makeup of our race shouldn't really be a problem if your females valued there heritage more. I see no problem with other races visiting other countries and such for work or play as long as they leave after or stay to their own kind. It takes 2 to tango they say. So if German females are doing the horizontal hustle with me of different races wether their American or not it is their choice....

Fair enough, perhaps 'imposition' is oversimplifying the situation. However, I believe there is a concerted effort to influence the minds of, particularly young, people. To what extent the mass adoption of American ghetto culture is the result of cynical marketing and manipulation controlled from New York and Los Angeles, is debatable. Gutter culture is constantly broadcast, praised and encouraged by the MSM. Who, exactly, is responsible for this is another thread.

Unfortunately British women have gained a bit of an international reputation since WWII for f*****g anything with a pulse, including the dregs of the third world. I am not sure why this is nor what we can do about it. Misegination is always encouraged and glamourised on TV and in women's magazines.

To be fair we can't blame the US military for this situation, but they are certainly a tool of the people we can blame.

Hauke Haien
Sunday, January 25th, 2009, 05:20 AM
maybe you should blame the German floozies who are doing it rather than a whole country
Calling them floozies only tells half the story. It was the US who set our educational standards, where responsibility to our people no longer played any part, and the US also abolished laws for the protection of our honour. Finally, the US set up a collaborationist regime that continued this work with zeal.

The military presence is only a minor part of this larger problem, which also affects Germanic territories without such a presence. What is desperately needed here is an end to US influence over Europe.

Zauberspruch
Sunday, January 25th, 2009, 05:59 AM
A good friend was stationed in Germany way back in the 60s and he told me about his African-Ami GI mess mates who themselves talked all the time about how they looked forward to going into town to go "plutin" (pr. like Putin with an -L-) He never understood the origin of the term, but he knew it meant "going with a German girl" who despite the best efforts of the past government and their own parents were only too eager to date the black GI's.

I met another US service man who had also heard the term "plutin" and told me right off that it was Southern slang for "polluting" ... as in polluting the Germanic gene pool, or simply breeding little nappy headed Knaben. Pollute the gene pool and one day there will no longer be Germans to threaten the Nefarious Ones.

Oh, no ... you won't find "plutin" in the US service manuals, and no US Army officials will ever confirm that, but likewise no one will confirm why there are millions of Somalis, Kenyans and God knows what all being resettled in places like Minnesota that until now were traditionally Nordic.

Do the math.

Maelstrom
Sunday, January 25th, 2009, 07:04 AM
As for your claim of half-caste maybe you should blame the German floozies who are doing it rather than a whole country. Obviously they find its acceptable in their society to sleep with black/hispanic men. How about some blame on their parents! I am around other races all the time and have no desire to sleep with them. The other thing is most of these half breeds i see are leaving Germany to go back to the states therefore removing the problem from your country . The female was obviously no lose to your gene pool if her intelligence level was low enough to make a choice like that!

I befriended a couple of young women who had one American parent and one German, due to the American bases in Germany. They're really nice people and although "normal", I can tell they are happy about their Germanic heritage.

They were both fluent in American English and German and were remarkably friendly. I've missed them a lot.

What's interesting is that the American parent was of German ancestry as well - no half-castes there!

From what they told me, most Hispanics and Negros do not learn German, even if they are born into the country. They just live and breathe "the base".

Jäger
Sunday, January 25th, 2009, 10:14 AM
The German army is strictly defensive.
Not true anymore, it is currently restructuring (since Afghanistan, 2002) to attack small enclaves of terrorists.


They still have rules and regulations to follow after WWII.
Equipment wise mostly.


I have friends that are career soldiers in the Bundeswehr(quite different from the conscripts forced into service) who constantly complain about poor equipment.
Different how?


There training has become a summer camp, the instructing soldiers not even allowed to punish them with physical exercise (pushups,sit-ups).
This is since 2005, indeed.


I have personally fired the German weapons systems and dont really have much to say bad about the equipment other then they could do with an updated machine gun. I found it harder to qual on, receiving a silver ribbon because of it instead of the gold i would have earned with my marksman ship on the rifle and pistol.
The machine gun is actually on of the best weapons of the German armed forces, and still an almost (it was worsened not made better) exact copy of the MG43 (used during WW2).
I got a gold ribbon with it :)


Maybe you need to stop seeing it as envading your space and start seeing it as more of a positive.
Nothing positive about it.


6 reasons to calm down about our bases!
Every medal has two sides, however those meaningless advantages, do in no way overweight the principle of having armed forces stationed permanently on German soil.


We are no longer occupying you per say.
Well, after 60 years of the destruction of Germany, you can relax and don't expect us to rebel or anything, but be assured that you guys would enter the center if any substantial change would occur in Germany.


As for your claim of half-caste maybe you should blame the German floozies who are doing it rather than a whole country. Obviously they find its acceptable in their society to sleep with black/hispanic men.
What do you mean with "their society"? It is a "Western" society imposed by the US! That's exactly why you are to blame, if you would not have destroyed our society, such things would not be acceptable.

flemish
Sunday, January 25th, 2009, 11:22 PM
I had a friend a few years ago who was from Stuttgart, Germany who revealed to me that she was a quadroon.Her maternal grandmother had intercourse with a black American G.I. From what I understand, many women in Europe during and shortly after WWII exchanged sex for food since many of them, and their children were starving. An Italian friend of mine told me thousands of half black children were born in his country once it fell to the Allies.
When the Axis powers lost WWII, the future of Western Civilization lost, too.

bruno
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 05:05 PM
U.S. army suicide highest in three decades
Russia Today 30 gennaio 2009

U.S. defense officials say suicide among U.S. soldiers increased again last year and is at a nearly three-decade high.

The Army plans to announce figures later on Thursday, but a source in the U.S. Department of Defense told The Associated Press that at least 128 soldiers killed themselves in 2008 alone.

The final count is likely to be considerably higher than that because more than a dozen other suspicious deaths are still being investigated and could also turn out to be self-inflicted.

In 2007, the number of suicides was 115 - the highest since record keeping began in 1980.

American troops are under unprecedented stress because of repeated and lengthy tours of duty due to simultaneous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Source > Russia Today | Jan 29

prodeutsch
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Okay,

I am the new guy. However, I am really disgusted at the 1/2 truths inspired by people who mostly don't know what they are talking about. I do know what I am talking about. I lived in Germany for 5 years. My wife is of fine German stock, we have been married for 24 yrs. I am a LTC in the US Army and have never seen as much grabage posted on line in a long time. First off the US Army in Germany will be down to 24,000 and will be at only 5 bases.

Here are a few facts:

1. The US military pays market prices for everything it uses in Germany.
2. We do not send wounded soldiers to German Hospitals. They are treated at the Landstuhl Medical Center. Then they are stabilized and sent to Walter Reed medical center.
3. The US military is full of a cross section of the US population, some are good and some are bad.
4. Nazi Germany declared war on the United States first, not the other way around.
5. Who let the Turks in because they didn't want the shitty jobs?
6. Americans didn't tell you to have 1.25 children, you did that on your own. do you really think a vacation in Spain is more impiortant than procreation and maintaining your culture and race?


I have the utmost respect for my German brothers and sisters. I just happen to come from a line of Paltinate Deutsch that left in the 1600s for America because they had the audacity to become protestants! As far as being nasty to boorish American soldiers? I know of many Germany soldiers that impregnated Cree Indian women in Shilo, Manitoba Canada. So much for keeping the master race pure! I for one are you most ardent supporter, but I dislike people who have nothing but hate in their heart they cannot recognize their brother! It is really disengenious to blame me as an American for the state of your cultural and demographic decline. It is not I or the United States of America that said you had to allow Turks in. Besides one day you will need us again to drive the rable back to where they came from!


Not true anymore, it is currently restructuring (since Afghanistan, 2002) to attack small enclaves of terrorists.


Equipment wise mostly.


Different how?


This is since 2005, indeed.


The machine gun is actually on of the best weapons of the German armed forces, and still an almost (it was worsened not made better) exact copy of the MG43 (used during WW2).
I got a gold ribbon with it :)


Nothing positive about it.


Every medal has two sides, however those meaningless advantages, do in no way overweight the principle of having armed forces stationed permanently on German soil.


Well, after 60 years of the destruction of Germany, you can relax and don't expect us to rebel or anything, but be assured that you guys would enter the center if any substantial change would occur in Germany.


What do you mean with "their society"? It is a "Western" society imposed by the US! That's exactly why you are to blame, if you would not have destroyed our society, such things would not be acceptable.

Jaeger,

I would just like to point out a correction the current German light machine gun is based on the MG42. I believe the current nomenclature is MG3, but I could be mistaken.

One more thing, we didn't impose anything on you....you are free to do whatever you want now. It is the US that made sure that Germany was united, as it should be! If it was up to your European neighbors, you would still be divided.

Kreis AnnA
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:20 PM
Well, they can't become Nazis anymore. But also remember there were two sides, post WWII, who wanted a united Germany wedded to their interests and unsupportive of a uniquely German perspective. This is what defeat does. You succomb to the victors. From such a perspective, many Germans rightfully felt/feel like pawns. Life in Ground Zero does not make for happy hearts, and that's what the Cold War brought.

Ossi
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:44 PM
It is the US that made sure that Germany was united, as it should be! If it was up to your European neighbors, you would still be divided.
Ya, ya, don't come with that story that America is the no. 1 selfless altruist country in the world that always minds for the best interest of others. America wanted Germany united because it wanted to control it better. The FRG is a puppet state of the neo-cons. They didn't like the East rejecting their degeneracy and they didn't like socialism. The neo-con butt kissers didn't agree when the SED wanted a united Germany, because they were afraid of a strong socialist presence in the Parliament. Then suddenly after socialism falls they change their mind. It was all about convenience, no keen and sincere interest for the welfare of the Germans.

Kreis AnnA
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:48 PM
There were no such thing as Neo-Cons until the 1980s. Maybe you mean Free Masons or the Illuminati ? ;) Getting to be one of the top four world economies sounds like the conspiracy turned ass-backwards. How the money is divided is a German problem.

Hauke Haien
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 05:48 AM
5. Who let the Turks in because they didn't want the shitty jobs?
The Turks were let in because our dead were unable to perform any jobs, so the Turks took up the less glamorous ones, because that is what they can do. They were let in by our post-war collaborators and most importantly, they were allowed to send for their families, to stay and to integrate because our nation is no longer defined as the nation state of the German people. Now, who severed that link?


6. Americans didn't tell you to have 1.25 children, you did that on your own.
No, America just destroyed our social systems and created a broken people under an alien system of government. The US is more accustomed to liberal democracy and compensates its deficiencies, with religious nonsense for example, but that does not stop its Mexification either. US Germanics have sub-replacement fertility as well, they are just going extinct a little slower.


do you really think a vacation in Spain is more impiortant than procreation and maintaining your culture and race?
We do, but so does everyone in the West. The only problem is that US Germanics are unwilling to destroy the West, because they imagine themselves as its glorious dominators and the herolds of democracy, freedom, human rights; never mind the poisonous effect this has on all of our peoples.


I know of many Germany soldiers that impregnated Cree Indian women in Shilo, Manitoba Canada. So much for keeping the master race pure!
People need to be taught proper values. The US prevented us from doing that and its bastard state continues to do the same in American interest. There is absolutely no question that the German people is highly degenerate. It is another reason why I want the US rendered powerless, so it can no longer destroy Germanics outside of its borders.


Besides one day you will need us again to drive the rable back to where they came from!
It would be great if US Germanics were willing to fight on our side, but I do not expect it. They would rather fight for their own destruction, it seems to me. That leaves us no other option than to turn to outside allies in order to drive back the rabble to where it came from, across the Atlantic.

Psychonaut
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 07:11 AM
The Turks were let in because our dead were unable to perform any jobs, so the Turks took up the less glamorous ones, because that is what they can do. They were let in by our post-war collaborators and most importantly, they were allowed to send for their families, to stay and to integrate because our nation is no longer defined as the nation state of the German people. Now, who severed that link?

Regardless of the reasons why the Turks et al. were let it, the fact remains that it was the German state and people who opened the door and are still keeping it propped open. I don't think we ever forced Germany to accept hordes of Turks; the situation itself coerced you into allowing them in.


People need to be taught proper values. The US prevented us from doing that and its bastard state continues to do the same in American interest.

How exactly are our military facilities preventing German parents from teaching proper values to their children?

Jäger
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 07:38 AM
I would just like to point out a correction the current German light machine gun is based on the MG42. I believe the current nomenclature is MG3, but I could be mistaken.
We don't have a light machine gun. And indeed, the machine gun I was talking about is the MG3. And what is your correction?


One more thing, we didn't impose anything on you....you are free to do whatever you want now.
Now? After you imposed everything on us! How nice. It was the US who forbid the people to vote for a NS party again, and it was the US who disregarded international agreements by imposing laws against current social practices.


It is the US that made sure that Germany was united, as it should be! If it was up to your European neighbors, you would still be divided.
You can't argue with couldas and wouldas, Stalin at least proposed the unification of Germany, if Germany had withdrawn from the West, if we only knew whether he had something more in mind or not, but in retrospective we should have taken that risk, and again the US did everything to make sure we wouldn't do that, through military threat.


Regardless of the reasons why the Turks et al. were let it, the fact remains that it was the German state and people who opened the door and are still keeping it propped open.
Yes, anti-German collaborators. Who would have never ever gained power in a German state, but were empowered by US officials for exactly this reason.


How exactly are our military facilities preventing German parents from teaching proper values to their children?
Most German parents can't do that to begin with, because they and their kids are constantly bombarded with anti-German propaganda (so even if they retained the values, they cannot compete with their outside impacts on their children, they don't live in a bubble), and any party which tries to organize something detrimental to this propaganda gets resolved, if necessary backed by US force.

Hauke Haien
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 07:56 AM
Regardless of the reasons why the Turks et al. were let it, the fact remains that it was the German state and people who opened the door and are still keeping it propped open. I don't think we ever forced Germany to accept hordes of Turks; the situation itself coerced you into allowing them in.
This "German" state was not created by us and the German people is bound by law to protect it, rather than its own existence. Over the years, this state has succeeded in destroying much of our will to power and the possibility of renewed foreign aggression is always pointed out by those who still think maintaining this abomination is a good idea.

That Turks were permanently settled on our soil is just a consequence of the American character of our "German" state, where anyone can become a member by paying lip service to its constitution, not because they belong to the ethnic group that forms the nation.

It is a popular mistake to imagine liberal democracy as a neutral system where any negative outcome can only be blamed on the character flaws of the people working within it rather than the system's failure to suppress them.

What the US can be blamed for is Westernising us and keeping us Western by implicit threat. Any German loyal to his people therefore has no other choice than to regard the US as a hostile force that has to be overcome.


How exactly are our military facilities preventing German parents from teaching proper values to their children?
I have pointed out that the military facilities are a minor part of the problem, which would remain even if everything was moved to Poland. Our inability to teach our people responsible conduct, to enforce it socially and by law, is caused by our Western character. That this is exploited by US military personnel and other tourists is a secondary issue.

Psychonaut
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 09:11 AM
Most German parents can't do that to begin with, because they and their kids are constantly bombarded with anti-German propaganda (so even if they retained the values, they cannot compete with their outside impacts on their children, they don't live in a bubble), and any party which tries to organize something detrimental to this propaganda gets resolved, if necessary backed by US force.

Is this anti-German propaganda produced by or in any way related to the US's military facilities?


I have pointed out that the military facilities are a minor part of the problem, which would remain even if everything was moved to Poland. Our inability to teach our people responsible conduct, to enforce it socially and by law, is caused by our Western character. That this is exploited by US military personnel and other tourists is a secondary issue.

I can understand that Germans would have a problem with our Army posts; I would feel the same way about German posts in the US. I suppose I was reading a bit too much into your prior post. It seemed that you were blaming the woes of contemporary German degeneracy on the mere presence of our bases.

Jäger
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 09:22 AM
Is this anti-German propaganda produced by or in any way related to the US's military facilities?
I already said, that going against such propaganda is prevented by US force, military force. Admittedly, not as much as it used to be, the need has vanished, we are now a broken people.

prodeutsch
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 02:01 PM
People need to be taught proper values. The US prevented us from doing that and its bastard state continues to do the same in American interest. There is absolutely no question that the German people is highly degenerate. It is another reason why I want the US rendered powerless, so it can no longer destroy Germanics outside of its borders.

I think "real" germans as opposed to us of Germanic heritage would love to see America powerless. However, that was tried twice before, I wouldn't try a third time. I can also see that Communist DDR values are still alive and well in some, that is so sad! I guess it doesn't matter that communists base their ideology on a German Jew, how ironic is that?

I can see why you are so disorganized....you can't see who the real enemy is. What we need is a plan, I personally think that we can start by having larger families that are squared away. Teach children their heritage, what it is that makes them Germanic, Communism isn't it!

Ein schoenes Wokenende....

Hauke Haien
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 02:29 PM
I think "real" germans as opposed to us of Germanic heritage would love to see America powerless. However, that was tried twice before, I wouldn't try a third time.
What was tried twice was to gain dominance over Europe and it largely failed due to the resistance of other European powers, although US reinforcements played a very significant role in ending WW1, as opposed to fighting it. The US is not an unbeatable, awesome power on its own. That is just propaganda in order to discourage its destruction, and it can be done by eroding its influence and breaking the West apart.


I can see why you are so disorganized....you can't see who the real enemy is.
The enemy is anything that impedes the life of our people, which presently includes both the United States of America and the Federal Republic of Germany.


What we need is a plan, I personally think that we can start by having larger families that are squared away. Teach children their heritage, what it is that makes them Germanic, Communism isn't it!
American anarchism only leads to an alternative, but equally pointless life. What we want as Germans is to recapture our destiny as a folkish community. To us, the American spirit is a selfish degeneracy and if the American people wishes to kill itself through it, they should just go ahead and leave us out of it.

Jäger
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 02:54 PM
I personally think that we can start by having larger families...
Passive resistance (which only relies on the weakness of the enemy, and not on the strength of ourselves) is always a bad choice. So we might start there, but certainly won't end there.
There are two possible outcomes, either Germanic Americans destroy their degenerate state, and build it anew as a Germanic one, or we will have to break American influence on Germany (as with all other degenerate influences) to set ourselves free, and destroy our degenerate state.

Anyways, certainly, you agree that American soldiers (now even under the command of a Nigger) have no business in Germany?

SwordOfTheVistula
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 03:34 PM
What the US can be blamed for is Westernising us and keeping us Western by implicit threat.

France/EU bears the primary blame for this. The primary US interest in Germany was militarily, as a speed bump for the USSR, and in this the US desired the rearmament of (West) Germany and forced the rest of Europe to accept a reunification of Germany. As far as social values go, Germany has been well to the left of the US for most of the post-WWII era. If anything, Europe has been pulling the US leftward, for example our Supreme Court used the fact that homosexuality had been accepted in Europe as part of their rationale for their 2003 decision that homosexuality can no longer be a an arrestable/imprisonable offense.

Jäger
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 05:27 PM
The primary US interest in Germany was militarily, as a speed bump for the USSR, ...
So? The primary driving force behind our Grundgeschwätz was still the US. I doubt that the interest was merely militarily, mostly it was economically (military only as a means to this end), however, the reasons don't play a role here anyways, what counts is that the US sought to (and sadly achieved to) bind Germany into the "western world".

Hauke Haien
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 06:07 PM
France/EU bears the primary blame for this.
France is in no condition to dominate us, neither economically nor militarily. The EU, by contrast, was indeed designed as a way to keep a reunited Germany under control, and is in turn limited by pervasive US influence.


The primary US interest in Germany was militarily, as a speed bump for the USSR, and in this the US desired the rearmament of (West) Germany and forced the rest of Europe to accept a reunification of Germany.
The US does what it wants with its protectorates. For my part, I do not care what it wants, I just want it gone.


As far as social values go, Germany has been well to the left of the US for most of the post-WWII era.
Some of our social values have developed in an authoritarian environment. It is no surprise that they turn out to be of little use or even gain a harmful dynamic in a liberal democracy. Other values are simply a product of our thorough re-education as repentant Westerners with an insane belief in the rights of the individual.


If anything, Europe has been pulling the US leftward, for example our Supreme Court used the fact that homosexuality had been accepted in Europe as part of their rationale for their 2003 decision that homosexuality can no longer be a an arrestable/imprisonable offense.
Inner-Western squabbles are of zero interest to me. I want us to leave the whole system and rebuild a society that is not founded on the ideas of the French revolution.

Kreis AnnA
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 06:31 PM
So? The primary driving force behind our Grundgeschwätz was still the US. I doubt that the interest was merely militarily, mostly it was economically (military only as a means to this end), however, the reasons don't play a role here anyways, what counts is that the US sought to (and sadly achieved to) bind Germany into the "western world".

Historically, it was Germany binding itself to the West through conquest of Western Europe, especially France. Well, now you have France- only they have you as well lol

And what has not been responded to is the necessity of making Germany so wealthy to drown it. If you were to be broken it would have been more like a Stalinist perspective on Ukraine. It certainly would have been cost efficent, no? Are you proposing that shivering hungry in the dark would have helped you realize your potential? German losses in the Secod World War would have otherwise been insurmountable.

Jäger
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 07:26 PM
Historically, it was Germany binding itself to the West through conquest of Western Europe, especially France.
When I speak about the "western world", I mean more than a mere geographical location.


Are you proposing that shivering hungry in the dark would have helped you realize your potential?
No. Are you proposing that there would not have been any other option? As I said, arguing with couldas and wouldas is pointless.

Kreis AnnA
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 07:35 PM
When I speak about the "western world", I mean more than a mere geographical location..

No nation gains insularity because of its geographic location. That is the way of the world, not merely the West. Germany was a willing, full participant from it's inception as a unified nation.



No. Are you proposing that there would not have been any other option? As I said, arguing with couldas and wouldas is pointless.

I'm proposing through rhetorical device that the only viable option was rebuilding under the auspices of the victors. Any other option is speculative since method and result do not exist except in one's imagination.

Hauke Haien
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 08:19 PM
No nation gains insularity because of its geographic location. That is the way of the world, not merely the West. Germany was a willing, full participant from it's inception as a unified nation.
Of course, on our terms.


I'm proposing through rhetorical device that the only viable option was rebuilding under the auspices of the victors. Any other option is speculative since method and result do not exist except in one's imagination.
Pertaining to the future, they do not exist yet. An analysis of the effects US domination had on us in the past helps formulate the task ahead of us and develop both method and result.

Haereticus
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 09:31 PM
Regardless of the reasons why the Turks et al. were let it, the fact remains that it was the German state and people who opened the door and are still keeping it propped open. I don't think we ever forced Germany to accept hordes of Turks; the situation itself coerced you into allowing them in...

Like the UK, I don't imagine they were ever allowed a vote on the subject.

prodeutsch
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 10:35 PM
Squabbling amongst ourselves is not going to get anything solved. I for one see no current leader that can unite us, and I have seen no one on this forum yet, but I could be wrong! I hope I am...

Jäger
Sunday, February 1st, 2009, 08:08 AM
No nation gains insularity because of its geographic location. That is the way of the world, not merely the West. Germany was a willing, full participant from it's inception as a unified nation.
The current "Western World" is an ideological framework Germany had never intended to participate. Only after forcefully beating Germany into it we became part of it.


I'm proposing through rhetorical device that the only viable option was rebuilding under the auspices of the victors. Any other option is speculative since method and result do not exist except in one's imagination.
A rebuilding paid by with the destruction of our Volk. Of course as the losers of this conflict we were subjected to the will of the victors, what we can see is that this will was anti-German to the core.


Squabbling amongst ourselves is not going to get anything solved.
A thought-terminating cliché. Of course we need to discuss what is right.
Does anyone challenge that the West is anti-Germanic?
Does anyone challenge that America, as the leader of the West, is anti-Germanic?
We live right in this mess, what kind of self-denial is this?
The topic are American soldiers, does anyone think they have justified business in Germany? What else do they represent other than the West. Enemies on German soil!

Siebenbürgerin
Sunday, February 1st, 2009, 12:35 PM
I for one are you most ardent supporter, but I dislike people who have nothing but hate in their heart they cannot recognize their brother! It is really disengenious to blame me as an American for the state of your cultural and demographic decline. It is not I or the United States of America that said you had to allow Turks in.
But who was blaming you? I'm certain the forum users are aware the American government, the American armed forces and the American civils aren't the same. The thread is about American soldiers in Germany and whether it's justified to keep being there after the war is over.

Squabbling amongst ourselves is not going to get anything solved. I for one see no current leader that can unite us, and I have seen no one on this forum yet, but I could be wrong! I hope I am...
But if you make controversial posts like this, you should expect some debates about it:

One more thing, we didn't impose anything on you....you are free to do whatever you want now. It is the US that made sure that Germany was united, as it should be! If it was up to your European neighbors, you would still be divided.

Because you can't expect everyone to agree with your views and take what you say for true. You see things from your own view, as American citisen, the Germans see it differently. World views aren't the same. I'm sure it wouldn't be the same if the situation shifted and the Germans would occupy you militarily. I don't think many Americans would embrace it with open arms and consider them brotherly.

SwordOfTheVistula
Monday, February 2nd, 2009, 10:38 AM
So? The primary driving force behind our Grundgeschwätz was still the US. I doubt that the interest was merely militarily, mostly it was economically (military only as a means to this end), however, the reasons don't play a role here anyways, what counts is that the US sought to (and sadly achieved to) bind Germany into the "western world".


France is in no condition to dominate us, neither economically nor militarily. The EU, by contrast, was indeed designed as a way to keep a reunited Germany under control, and is in turn limited by pervasive US influence.

It is true that without US intervention Germany would have won the world wars, but US involvement in the World Wars was more motivated by relations with Britain than any particular desire involving Germany. After WWII, American interest in Germany was exclusively anti-Soviet, even to the point of taking over 3rd reich intelligence networks and allowing the appointment of former 3rd reich officials to government positions in order to ensure functionality of the state (a point harped on by Soviet propagandists). Other indicators are the American preference towards commuting the sentence of Rudolph Hess and the visit in the 80s by an American President to an SS cemetery at Bitburg. Anti-NS propaganda in the US operates for domestic purposes, by the left to push multiculturalism, and recently by some elements of the right to argue against bank bailouts and gun control.



The US does what it wants with its protectorates.

That must be why the US allows Germany to engage in unfair trade practices (rebates for exporters), as well as operate a tax structure (high VAT, low corporate income tax rate) which encourages exports to the US and discourages imports from the US.

Hauke Haien
Monday, February 2nd, 2009, 12:04 PM
It is true that without US intervention Germany would have won the world wars, but US involvement in the World Wars was more motivated by relations with Britain than any particular desire involving Germany. After WWII, American interest in Germany was exclusively anti-Soviet
There was no particular desire involving Britain either. America became a world power by insinuating itself into the World Wars. With the British Empire demolished and Germany's own ambitions thwarted, there was only the Soviet Union left as competition.


Anti-NS propaganda in the US operates for domestic purposes, by the left to push multiculturalism, and recently by some elements of the right to argue against bank bailouts and gun control.
Whether the US likes Germany and NS is completely irrelevant. Sure, anti-NS propaganda is used in order to reinforce liberal democratic values and here in Germany, our political system itself is justified by it, but running this system is what is killing us, not irrelevant feelings on the part of Americans.


That must be why the US allows Germany to engage in unfair trade practices
Again, inner-Western squabbles. The point is that it is unimaginable for us to be heretics in a system based on universalist faith. The same system that is killing us and Germanics in the US is also the chain that binds us and the rest of the "free world" to US power.

It cannot be expected that the US will end the West of its own volition, burn its flawed liberal Constitution and transform itself into an ethnic nation. To wait for this means suicide. Why would US Germanics even want to do that? Apart from going extinct, they are clearly winning so far. And even that is not a problem, because there is an endless supply of immigrants who can become new Americans. Not from Europe, of course, because our countries are now following the same system, but there are still countries with surplus birth rates to leech from and they can maintain them even within the US for a time, until they have adapted.

What we have to aim for is not merely a power shift within the West, the whole construct is flawed and has to end. Those states who have previously been ethnic nations are in a slightly better position than the US itself, whose liberal traditions serve as a template for the global citizen, but they currently lack the power and the will to destroy it and free themselves.

SwordOfTheVistula
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2009, 12:12 PM
There was no particular desire involving Britain either. America became a world power by insinuating itself into the World Wars.

The eastern coast elite in the early 20th century contained a lot of Anglophiles, many of them were of British ancestry and identified as 'British' (as opposed to the interior, which was of mostly German ancestry, and the urban underclass which was Irish and south/eastern European). Also, in WWII, a number of jews and communists were in the cabinet of FDR, but the communists were largely removed in 1944-45 when Truman replaced Wallace as VP and then replaced Roosevelt as President when he died.

America became a world power on account of size, natural resources, and industrialization, and in fact by the mid-19th century was probably capable of defeating any foreign foe. The world wars didn't really help with this, except in part to extract payment from Britain for defending it.




It cannot be expected that the US will end the West of its own volition, burn its flawed liberal Constitution and transform itself into an ethnic nation.

The US was an ethnic state under the Constitution for a century and a half. The same people who wrote also wrote a 'naturalization act' which stated that only 'whites' could be citizens. The departure from an ethnic state occurred mainly by:

The 1954 'Brown v Board of Education' decision by the Supreme Court to force schools in Kansas to integrate, and is now recognized even by liberals to have been an instance of 'judicial activism' and not following the Constitution.

The 1964 'Civil Rights Act', which mandated nationwide desegregation based on a Constitutional provision to 'regulate interstate commerce'. The Constitutionality of this law is dubious at best.

The other stuff I generally agree with, I only wanted to make the point that liberalism operates on its own accord in west/central Europe today and has done so at least since the 1960s, if every American and every Jew were to vanish tomorrow, Europe would still be a center of far-left liberalism.

Jäger
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2009, 12:55 PM
The other stuff I generally agree with, I only wanted to make the point that liberalism operates on its own accord in west/central Europe today and has done so at least since the 1960s, if every American and every Jew were to vanish tomorrow, Europe would still be a center of far-left liberalism.
This is correct, but not in accordance with the discussion at hand, because the point is that with America "vanished", there would be no major military power protecting these values (or at least one less). A military power currently stationed on German soil.

Hauke Haien
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2009, 01:24 PM
The eastern coast elite in the early 20th century contained a lot of Anglophiles, many of them were of British ancestry and identified as 'British'
Those supposed Anglophiles later turned the English into their pets, it is a condescending fetishism. Really no different from German-Americans who imagine themselves as our shepherds and act surprised when we express a wish to forge outside alliances and acquire nuclear weapons in order to keep their destructive influence away from our people.


America became a world power on account of size, natural resources, and industrialization, and in fact by the mid-19th century was probably capable of defeating any foreign foe.
That is correct, but the competition still has to be destroyed. World War II and the Cold War achieved that. Britain had to downsize its navy, military and empire, Germany was divided and in ruins, Japan was thwarted in Asia, and the Soviet Union ultimately collapsed under the pressure put on its flawed economic system by the US. Only China was lost, supposedly by the "China Hands", and now Russia seems lost as well, for a time at least.


The US was an ethnic state under the Constitution for a century and a half. The same people who wrote also wrote a 'naturalization act' which stated that only 'whites' could be citizens.
A nation in the strictest sense is a state belonging to an ethnic group. This was probably de facto the case in the earliest days when the various US states belonged to their colonial populations, which were predominantly British and formed communities that were in sum total coextensive with their states.

In a legal sense, this relationship has been subject to a dangerous reversal, where citizenship defined the collection of individuals termed 'Americans'. The fact that only 'whites' could be citizens does not solve the problem that group identity is essentially eliminated in this construct and replaced with a direct relationship between citizen and state. This causes both desolidarisation and suicidal loyalty towards a pseudo-nation that is by design completely indifferent to the survival of one's own ethnic group.


The other stuff I generally agree with, I only wanted to make the point that liberalism operates on its own accord in west/central Europe today and has done so at least since the 1960s, if every American and every Jew were to vanish tomorrow, Europe would still be a center of far-left liberalism.
Germany has been deliberately decultured, diversified, fragmented and despiritualised. Reclaiming our nature is certainly a task that is hard enough to achieve, but the fact remains that the US forms a major obstacle and would move against us when we awaken, at the very latest. It is therefore only prudent to contemplate how it can be removed, especially because counter-propaganda always emphasises that we are being punished for our will to live. If our people recognised that there is a perspective to resist hostile attempts to subdue us again, then they would certainly be more willing to listen to those who want them live, as a people.

SwordOfTheVistula
Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 09:10 AM
This is correct, but not in accordance with the discussion at hand, because the point is that with America "vanished", there would be no major military power protecting these values (or at least one less). A military power currently stationed on German soil.

American military stationed on German soil has no effect whatsoever on German domestic policy, aside from allowing Germany to spend more on social programs since they need to spend less on defense.

Today we have two stories in the news headlines. In one, the German Chancellor issues demands to the US on trade policy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7866900.stm

The EU has increased its pressure on the US to reconsider the "Buy American" clause in the $800bn (£567bn) economic recovery package now before Congress.

The clause seeks to ensure that only US iron, steel and manufactured goods are used in projects funded by the bill.

A European Commission spokesman said it was the "worst possible signal".

However, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said President Obama had assured her the US would not follow protectionist policies.

"He stressed that," she said.


And in another, the German Chancellor issues demands to the Catholic Pope:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5653201.ece

Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, became the first world leader yesterday to condemn Pope Benedict XVI over his rehabilitation of an ultra-conservative British bishop who denies that Jews died in the Nazi Holocaust.

Ms Merkel called on the German Pope to reject publicly the views of Bishop Richard Williamson, who has denied that six million Jews were gassed in Nazi concentration camps. In a highly unusual rebuke to the Pope she said that she did not believe there had been “sufficient” clarification.

“This should not be allowed to pass without consequences,” Ms Merkel, daughter of a Lutheran pastor, said. “The Pope and the Vatican should clarify unambiguously that there can be no denial and that there must be positive relations with the Jewish community overall.”


So, we can see that the German government is not under any sort of control from the American government, and even issues demands regarding US domestic policy, and yet still comes out 100% in favor of multiculturalism, in fact the lone country in which the head of state has issued a condemnation of a major religious figure on behalf of the jews.

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 10:07 AM
You are arguing things that are uncontested. We do not doubt the fact that a liberal democracy acts like a liberal democracy. We only doubt that the US would let us demolish it and thereby leave its general sphere of influence, called the West.

I repeat, a political system is never neutral. Its design determines to a large degree how it will behave. If this is not obvious enough, compare pre-1919 Germany with post-1949, and also 1933-1945.

The US is not the kind of hegemon that has absolute power over its underlings, but it can shape their basic structure and thwart their initiatives. That there is still some wiggle room is completely unsurprising, it would be if there was none. Germany is chained tighter than most other countries, though.

Jäger
Wednesday, February 4th, 2009, 10:25 AM
American military stationed on German soil has no effect whatsoever on German domestic policy, aside from allowing Germany to spend more on social programs since they need to spend less on defense.
This is talking at cross purposes. I agree that Germany is degenerate, what I said was that America defends this degeneracy. You disagree?

SwordOfTheVistula
Thursday, February 5th, 2009, 01:09 PM
You are arguing things that are uncontested. We do not doubt the fact that a liberal democracy acts like a liberal democracy. We only doubt that the US would let us demolish it and thereby leave its general sphere of influence, called the West.

I repeat, a political system is never neutral. Its design determines to a large degree how it will behave. If this is not obvious enough, compare pre-1919 Germany with post-1949, and also 1933-1945.

The US is not the kind of hegemon that has absolute power over its underlings, but it can shape their basic structure and thwart their initiatives. That there is still some wiggle room is completely unsurprising, it would be if there was none. Germany is chained tighter than most other countries, though.


This is talking at cross purposes. I agree that Germany is degenerate, what I said was that America defends this degeneracy. You disagree?

No, simply that America merely revels in its own degeneracy, and is not the cause of degeneracy in Germany.

Japan was subject to similar measures in WWII and the immediate aftermath as Germany, and yet has managed to still be an ethnic nationalist state with very few foreigners present in it.

Hauke Haien
Thursday, February 5th, 2009, 02:30 PM
Japan is yet another liberal democracy with a total fertility rate of 1.22 and a fragmented people unwilling to work for the success of their ethnic group. Their destruction takes place without a significant presence of foreigners, but the underlying disease is still there.

What the Japanese people really can be blamed for is losing the war and the subsequent failure to abolish their Constitution against the expected resistance of those who spread this disease to them, possibly leading to renewed warfare.

Jäger
Thursday, February 5th, 2009, 04:14 PM
No, simply that America merely revels in its own degeneracy, and is not the cause of degeneracy in Germany.
Germany had her own anti-German traitors, Hitler failed to eradicate them, but America put those in power wherever possible, and defended their position.
Those anti-German people were not in power before and during the war, and those people were not even voted in by the majority of Germans, (America restricted whom they could vote for to begin with).
The Grundgeschwätz (our "constitution") was the child of anti-Germans appointed by America.
Source or not, America bears responsibility for the success of such degenerate ideas in Germany, not marginally due to their military presence here.

prodeutsch
Friday, February 6th, 2009, 02:50 PM
I guess the lesson to learn is, if you are Germany and it is 11 December 1941 don't declare war on the U.S., because if you do there will not be a 10,000 yr Reich! The U.S. was more than happy to crush the Japs into dust without having to worry about Europe!

Jäger
Friday, February 6th, 2009, 03:47 PM
I guess the lesson to learn is, if you are Germany and it is 11 December 1941 don't declare war on the U.S., because if you do there will not be a 10,000 yr Reich!
It was supposed to be a 1000 years empire, not 10,000.

Hauke Haien
Friday, February 6th, 2009, 04:06 PM
The US was already pursuing a hostile foreign policy, so it did not matter much whether Germany declared open war first. Either way, the US mainly profited from the opportunities opened up by the relative weakness of the other Western allies and the fact that forces and casualties were concentrated in the East.

Experiences from the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and the US occupation of Vietnam show that it is possible for the weaker side to discourage the stronger one, mostly by harassing and killing their troops until they stop sending fresh ones. I do not think, however, that such an approach is possible for countries that are considered potential competitors, even if they may not be. To be on the safe side, mass destruction capabilities are needed, either borrowed through an alliance or self-developed.

prodeutsch
Friday, February 6th, 2009, 04:07 PM
It was supposed to be a 1000 years empire, not 10,000.


Okay 1000 yrs then.


The US was already pursuing a hostile foreign policy, so it did not matter much whether Germany declared open war first. I guess if you consider German U-boats off the East coast sinking American shipping, well then I guess you are right about aggression, except that it was German aggression. Besides the same liberals that were in power back then are in power today. Don't blame me, I didn't vote for them back then or now!

Jäger
Friday, February 6th, 2009, 06:02 PM
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for them back then or now!
This is not a blame game, and the past is not reversible. We need to evaluate our situation right here, right now.
And the result of this is that the power of the US to influence other states has to be broken, and removing their military occupational forces is one step needed.
Do you agree?

SwordOfTheVistula
Monday, February 9th, 2009, 01:48 PM
I guess if you consider German U-boats off the East coast sinking American shipping, well then I guess you are right about aggression, except that it was German aggression.

Basically they were following a lesser version of the policy followed by the British surface navy. If we tried to send trade ships to Germany, the British would have sunk them, the only reason none were was because the certainty of being sunk was so great as to not be worth even trying. Before the war though, most American corporations and NS Germany were eager to do business with eachother.


Japan is yet another liberal democracy with a total fertility rate of 1.22 and a fragmented people unwilling to work for the success of their ethnic group. Their destruction takes place without a significant presence of foreigners, but the underlying disease is still there.

What the Japanese people really can be blamed for is losing the war and the subsequent failure to abolish their Constitution against the expected resistance of those who spread this disease to them, possibly leading to renewed warfare.

They have a low fertility rate, but it doesn't really matter, since they don't have much in the way of immigrants. Most of the immigrants they do have are Korean, and even these are rather lowly regarded. Blacks are rare enough to literally turn heads on the street, like the circus is coming to town. Their WWII era leaders are memorialized (along with other war dead) at a shrine which all their Prime Ministers pay homage to. Like Germany, the main impairment in their Constitution is that they are not allowed to deploy military forces to foreign countries (something along those lines), which doesn't really effect them, as they have recently shown willingness to face down Korea over even barren, isolated islands. They also had something originally put in against Emporer-worship (like Germany has against NS), but they have not really taken this to heart, and the Royal Family is still revered, and Shinto (the ethnic tribal religion) still enjoys wide popularity even/especially amongst young people. Their state education system has mostly resisted efforts by western powers to accuse Japan of being the one who started the war, and also the various accusations of atrocities. The ethnic loyalty even extends to Japanese not born in Japan, for example former Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori found refuge there. The Japanese work ethic has also been maintained, 12 hour workdays are still common there, as opposed to western societies with a welfare class (which Japan does not have).

Hauke Haien
Monday, February 9th, 2009, 06:30 PM
They have a low fertility rate, but it doesn't really matter, since they don't have much in the way of immigrants.
They are facing a massive demographic crisis, and there are inevitably going to be attempts to try and solve it through immigration. Nevertheless, immigration is a non-issue. It is pointless to talk about it. The problem is that it is an option because the purpose of the state is divorced from the ethnic group, despite vestiges of ius sanguinis in citizenship law.

In fact, the citizen is never folk. He is just the property of a state structure, and it does not matter who else belongs to this structure, even if they all happen to be of the same ethnic group. They are never defined as such within the state and consequently lack the ability to act accordingly. What is needed is nothing short of the unity of state and folk and this has to be institutional, not just coincidental.

SwordOfTheVistula
Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 06:14 AM
So far, they're doing just fine with moving towards a more automated society, thus avoiding the 'demographic crisis' of no longer having a young/growing population. Immigrants tend to work in unskilled/low-skilled labor, and Japan is taking steps to reduce the demand for this type of job rather than import people to fix it. If Japan got through the economic boom years, which have been the times of immigrant importation in western countries, I don't think they will import any in the future.


The problem is that it is an option because the purpose of the state is divorced from the ethnic group, despite vestiges of ius sanguinis in citizenship law.

In western countries


What is needed is nothing short of the unity of state and folk and this has to be institutional, not just coincidental.

That's what they have in Japan, it's what they have in most asian countries.


There's no such thing as a 'demographic crisis' anyways, it's just an invented excuse to bring in immigrants. Does anyone seriously think these people will be 'supporting us in our old age'? They aren't supporting themselves now! The only reason we need to have more kids is because of non-Germanics living in the same countries as us and threatening to outbreed us. If we all lived on an island that nobody else had access to (as the Japanese do), we wouldn't have to worry about this.

Dunkeld
Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Do the French, British & Russians still have troops in Germany?

Russians: No.

French. Yes, but only as members of a mixed German-French contingent.

British: Yes.

Sidai_Odelai
Saturday, February 14th, 2009, 10:22 PM
Its business.
Thats why Dr. Derailer sees Border Patrol as real heroes and not soldiers in Iraq. I don't support our soldiers business in Iraq either so can understand that point.
Though my own litmus for heroism is idealistic in a fashion thats real to others around me and not intoxicated with my own frustrations. Real courage is putting ones life on the line and ones head in the mouth of the lion, a basis for Christian philosophy that also exists in the East in that their quintessential hero must die to express that mortal courage.

That exists in Iraq and in service to our military regardless of a paycheck and regardless of conspiracy theories for US military activities. Germans and our military have industry hand in hand out there with many things not pertaining to wars in the middle east, an occupation it certainly is, but more like ones own (German and American alike) and not over others. Thats where this thread should have gone.

Im interested in perspectives.

I spent time on an AF base in Germany and one interesting moment was when a young southern boy of 18 had died from alcohol poisoning when his friends left him to sober up in the tub on a night off.
There was a small, temporary place in which to grieve with his picture and some flowers outside the base. Native Germans upon witnessing it thought the boy died fighting in Iraq and some may even have paid respects as such.

When they learned of him killing himself they felt very much insulted. I rode in a vehicle in which folks spat out at the boys picture cursing Americans stupidity for remembering something like that which they certainly thought nothing to glorify.

At this I thought it would have been more culturally aware if the boys memorium hadn't had his picture in uniform and instead had one of him as a civilian in which way he had passed to better communicate with the host community (since they were going to put it up right outside the base).
These were young folks who would insist only in speaking english and of America and who enjoyed our presence very much. That was one of the only moments I felt a cultural disruption amongst German people and the military base, though it scratched the surface of other instances I had been ignorant to, but certainly "p'lluting the gene pool" was no concern in this modern day of 99% effective and widespread availability of birth control.

If that is something one is interested in, might I suggest reading about womens undergarments and WWII.

Jäger
Sunday, February 15th, 2009, 09:35 AM
Germans and our military have industry hand in hand out there with many things not pertaining to wars in the middle east, an occupation it certainly is, but more like ones own (German and American alike) and not over others. Thats where this thread should have gone.
What is there to discuss? This is a census we have reached quite early in this discussion. The current USA and the FRG are our enemies, for they both fight for our own destruction, it is a pragmatic step to remove American occupational forces, it doesn't mean that this is the end, we will have to deal with the degenerate FRG as well.
What I wonder - and so far no one answered my direct questions - how anyone on this forum could support such an occupation.

SwordOfTheVistula
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 02:43 PM
one interesting moment was when a young southern boy of 18 had died from alcohol poisoning when his friends left him to sober up in the tub on a night off.
There was a small, temporary place in which to grieve with his picture and some flowers outside the base.

That's a big complain locally too, idiots that die in drunken driving, and then have a these memorials up to them on the road, with a bunch of stuffed animals and such.

Aleric
Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 02:00 AM
To me, this thread ties in with the hyphenated - American thread I was reading earlier.I am an American.My ethnicity is Germanic.I cheered when the Berlin wall came down. I understand all that stuff about NATO and the cold war.But as far as I'm concerned the US military should leave Germany immediately. Germany is a sovereign nation.We have no business being there.It is still an army of occupation.If we have agreements with the German government allowing us to maintain bases there then fine but our soldiers should act as guests in Germany and Europe for that matter. The Germans are very capable of taking care of themselves,they don't need the American military there to "save" them.

Anfang
Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 02:50 AM
Russians: No.

French. Yes, but only as members of a mixed German-French contingent.

British: Yes.

A witty (in his mind) and jealous brit said this to me onlyone month ago.

"The French would like nothing better than to be ruled by the Germans"

Anfang
Thursday, April 9th, 2009, 03:18 AM
=
SwordOfTheVistula;924292]No, simply that America merely revels in its own degeneracy, and is not the cause of degeneracy in Germany.


American degeneracy does not effect the ruling class-these are insulated from the degeneracy if they are to be in true positions of power. as a simple example, race mixing and "multiculturalism' is promulgated by the Government and the media yet that powerful part of the American political-economic-media elite- the jews for bid marrying outside the jewish race. Likewise the sons and daughters of the very powerful go to even primary schools that insulated from the masses. in some of these schools even watching telavision is discouraged. Elite schools cost about 24,000 a year *for primary school* and are very socially stratified internaly. The US private scholl establishment is far larger than Germany's.
Where the american elite youth is trained in the concept of an "American manifest destiny" it realy means the concept of a manifest destiny for the ruling class.

Germany's elite classes are brought up to aquiesce to the Empire and as hauke said the reins of liberal international capitalism are much more tightly
held in germany for obvious reasons. It is not describable in any other terms as continuous infections injected on germanics from that Enemy empire.



Japan was subject to similar measures in WWII and the immediate aftermath as Germany, and yet has managed to still be an ethnic nationalist state with very few foreigners present in it.

japan cannot be infiltrated because they are a different race, long healthily
Xenophobic. They still gleefully remember wiping out the mongols. 800 years ago.

Witta
Friday, October 9th, 2009, 11:48 PM
The British and US military have pretty much shown themselves to be cannon fodder for Zionism. There is hardly a war they have fought in living memory where they were not removing a "Dictator" enemy of Israel.