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View Full Version : Human "races" are nothing more than breeds of dogs



waheed
Friday, February 13th, 2004, 12:02 AM
All dogs are actually wolves. They are the same species of wolves but they are variety of looks. That's variation. All humans are just variation, but we are the same species. Like different breeds of dogs. German Shephard, Bulldog etc

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, February 13th, 2004, 07:42 AM
So what is your point? Dogs and wolves have been studied using MtDNA just as people have. This was done at UCLA and I called them to get the results first hand when I read it in the newspaper. An Italian scientist (grad student) who was actually running the research told me that wolves fit within the dog range of variation. I told him I had rasied a wolf and now had a malamute. He said they tested malamutes and all wolf-like dogs as part of their research. The results of a genetic clock was that wolves and dogs seperated about 100,000 years ago. Most sources say dogs originally came from Asian wolves. This may mean dogs were first domesticated by Neanderthals. The only wolf in Africa is the Ethopian wolf. It looks like a jackel. There is no mistaking an Asian and an African wolf, at least phenotypically.

Wolves are wild. Dogs are domesticated, neontonous wolves. Humans domesticated themselves though culture. Wolves, it seems, resemble Neanderthals in relation to H. sapiens in some ways. The time frame is similar and in both dogs and H. sapiens, a degree of pedemorphism exist. Wolves and dogs interbreed freely.

Agrippa
Friday, February 13th, 2004, 05:06 PM
If you look at the differences between wolves and dogs you see that the difference is quite huge at all.

Same is withe the physical and psychological characteristics of dog races which differ in very important features very from each other.

If you say thats the same with humans, it would be just one more argument against losing the generally better features/or useful regional adaptations with panmixing the races.

Sometimes breeded dogs are quite degenerated, but there are also vey good breeds/"races" and mixing them with f.e. degenerated races just means to lose this positive features.

And of course there was some effect via self-domestication in humans from at least from the Neolithization on, and some contraselective effects too...

dishdawg
Saturday, February 14th, 2004, 04:39 AM
So what is your point? Dogs and wolves have been studied using MtDNA just as people have. This was done at UCLA and I called them to get the results first hand when I read it in the newspaper. An Italian scientist (grad student) who was actually running the research told me that wolves fit within the dog range of variation. I told him I had rasied a wolf and now had a malamute. He said they tested malamutes and all wolf-like dogs as part of their research. The results of a genetic clock was that wolves and dogs seperated about 100,000 years ago. Most sources say dogs originally came from Asian wolves. This may mean dogs were first domesticated by Neanderthals. The only wolf in Africa is the Ethopian wolf. It looks like a jackel. There is no mistaking an Asian and an African wolf, at least phenotypically.

Wolves are wild. Dogs are domesticated, neontonous wolves. Humans domesticated themselves though culture. Wolves, it seems, resemble Neanderthals in relation to H. sapiens in some ways. The time frame is similar and in both dogs and H. sapiens, a degree of pedemorphism exist. Wolves and dogs interbreed freely.

According to the following article Homo sapiens sapiens domesticated the dog from an Asian wolf only 15,000 years ago. But that's about 100,000 years in dog years. :D

http://www.nature.com/nsu/nsu_pf/021118/021118-12.html

waheed
Saturday, February 14th, 2004, 05:13 AM
Dogs come directly from the Grey Wolf(canis lupis) not the jackal or any other type of wild doglike creature.

Agrippa
Saturday, February 14th, 2004, 03:16 PM
According to the following article Homo sapiens sapiens domesticated the dog from an Asian wolf only 15,000 years ago. But that's about 100,000 years in dog years. :D

http://www.nature.com/nsu/nsu_pf/021118/021118-12.html

The joke with the dog years is not so false because the real important thing for evolution and mutations are the generations and dogs generate themselves and can be breed much faster than humans.
I dont know the exact age of dogs when they are fertile but its very early.

morfrain_encilgar
Saturday, February 14th, 2004, 04:24 PM
A mitochondrial study only establishes maternal lines, so I don't see how it can exclude the possibility of local grey wolf admixture, or admixture from other species of dog (all species of Canis can, I think, interbreed).

Nordhammer
Saturday, February 14th, 2004, 05:40 PM
Human races are much older than dog "races", with more genetic differences. Most dog breeds are also manmade, something not really achievable with humans since we value freedom.

dishdawg
Sunday, February 15th, 2004, 05:30 AM
Here's an article, Solar, collaborating what you were talking about: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&e=17&u=/ap/20040214/ap_on_sc/evolving_fido_6

Unfortunuately, this article doesn't go into much detail. But even if domestic dogs' most recent common ancestor through the mtdna line lived 100,000 years ago, that doesn't mean they were domesticated that long ago. Perhaps a percentage of Asian wild wolves also share that mtdna. That's if they used mtdna; that article doesn't say what they used to make this determination.

RedEgosyntonicSun
Sunday, February 15th, 2004, 06:07 AM
All dogs are actually wolves. They are the same species of wolves but they are variety of looks. That's variation. All humans are just variation, but we are the same species. Like different breeds of dogs. German Shephard, Bulldog etc This immediately enters "top five" in racialism.
If accept it as truth then some human races are superior than others, because
German Schepard, Bulldog etc are definitly superior than pincher or puddel.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, February 15th, 2004, 08:58 AM
Dishdawg makes a good point that it is seperation which is being measured. From that we all infer domestication but that is not necessarily so. When I said the Ethopian wolf looked like a jackel I did not mean it was a jackel, it is not.